Re: Go Faster New Bike Recommendations ?

Harris said:

Quoted message said:

1. The frame material I am leaning toward is TI.

May save a pound or so over steel, but at a price.

Actually it's more like a quarter to half a pound over lightweight steel. But
you don't have to worry about the paint being scratched, so your bike will stay
looking good forever. Could be worth it.

Matt O.

Harris said:

In rec.bicycles.tech "Steve Sr." whose message will self destruct in a few

days said:

8. Brooks leather saddle.

And your trying to save weight??!!

And ride it in the rain?
--
My bike blog:
http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

So many answers to the questions posed. Ti is great and doesn't have to cost a fortune but can if you want it to (i.e. for cache). Habanero and TST both have nice Ti frames for sub $1k and they can be had used for around $500 generally (look on eBay they pop up from time to time). That said nothing wrong with steel either. I just built a Salsa La Raza with Ultegra Triple and the total ready to ride weight is 20.4 LBS. I got Velomax Circuit wheels with my build kit and they seem very nice so far and are pretty light for the price. When I asked the retailer if they would hold up to my weight (220 lbs currently) they said the wheels would be fine. If you are concerned about strength the common recomendation is Mavic Open Pro laced to Ultegra hubs which will be able bomb proof.

Get a saddle that is right for your butt even if it is a Brooks and you have a saddle that adds .25 to .5 lb no big deal.

Steve Sr. said:

I think weight
is only part of the issue. The rest of the equation is rolling
resistance and inertia with the large and significantly heavier wheels
on the T2000.

Inertia is only an issue when accelerating. Translational inertia has a far
greater effect than rotational inertia. Translational inertia has to do with
getting the mass of you and the bike moving down the road. Lighter wheels
aren't going to make as much difference as you may think. If you were doing
match sprints on the track it would be a different story.

I'm not trying to throw cold water on your plans, but I've seen too many
people buy new bikes thinking it would make them faster only to be
disappointed. After the initial "new bike syndrome" wears off, I think
you'll be very lucky to see a 1 mph difference.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Standard Ultegra der will handle 12-27. Get long cage der if you use a
triple.

Is there a long cage available in Ultegra road or would I have to go
with a mountain type i.e. XTR.

Yes. You can get either an Ultegra rear der for use with either a double or
triple front. The triple version has a longer cage.

Art Harris

Quoted message said:

The new bike will *not* have all of these accessories. I think weight
is only part of the issue. The rest of the equation is rolling
resistance and inertia with the large and significantly heavier wheels
on the T2000.

Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which may
carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not designed
for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference *may*
contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.

Quoted message said:

Is there a long cage available in Ultegra road or would I have to go
with a mountain type i.e. XTR.

Ultegra has long cage derailleur designed for triple duty with up to a 27T
cog. If you decide you want a larger cog a mountain type derailleur is an
option which can be used.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the tip. I guess I need to decide on the frame first or are
seat posts all the same diameter?

Buy the bike first, seat post diameters do vary.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

9. I'm open for suggestions on wheels. It seems that there are too
many choices out there. I'm looking for light weight / reliable.

Reliability is usually inversely proportional to weight, all else being
equal. Hard to recommend a specific wheel without knowing your weight.
Hard to go wrong with well built conventional wheels.

The problem is all else is rarely equal. A set of light wheels built by a
competent factory or a sharp wheelbuilder can be much more reliable than a
heavier wheel built by a so-so builder.

I've had good luck with Bontrager Race-X Lites. They are light, but not
stupid light, and reasonably aero. My wife and I probably each have over
20,000 miles on ours with no problems.

OTOH, I had a set of 32 spoke wheels built by a supposedly local good
builder a number of years ago. My wife, who weighs all of 100 pounds,
proceeded to break spokes on a regular basis. I had them rebuilt by builder
guru Dave Thomas (http://speeddream.com/) and the problems ceased. If you
are leaning toward handbuilt wheels, you may want to give Dave a call.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

"Chris Neary" <[email hidden] > wrote

Quoted message said:

Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which

may

Quoted message said:

carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not designed
for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference

*may*

Quoted message said:

contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.

This is neither logical nor true.

"Chris Neary" <[email hidden] > wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The new bike will *not* have all of these accessories. I think weight
is only part of the issue. The rest of the equation is rolling
resistance and inertia with the large and significantly heavier wheels
on the T2000.

Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which

may

Quoted message said:

carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not designed
for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference

*may*

Quoted message said:

contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.

Quoted message said:

Is there a long cage available in Ultegra road or would I have to go
with a mountain type i.e. XTR.

Ultegra has long cage derailleur designed for triple duty with up to a

27T

Quoted message said:

cog. If you decide you want a larger cog a mountain type derailleur is an
option which can be used.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the tip. I guess I need to decide on the frame first or are
seat posts all the same diameter?

Buy the bike first, seat post diameters do vary.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> 9. I'm open for suggestions on wheels. It seems that there are too
> many choices out there. I'm looking for light weight / reliable.

Reliability is usually inversely proportional to weight, all else being
equal. Hard to recommend a specific wheel without knowing your weight.
Hard to go wrong with well built conventional wheels.

The problem is all else is rarely equal. A set of light wheels built by a
competent factory or a sharp wheelbuilder can be much more reliable than

a

Quoted message said:

heavier wheel built by a so-so builder.

I've had good luck with Bontrager Race-X Lites. They are light, but not
stupid light, and reasonably aero. My wife and I probably each have over
20,000 miles on ours with no problems.

OTOH, I had a set of 32 spoke wheels built by a supposedly local good
builder a number of years ago. My wife, who weighs all of 100 pounds,
proceeded to break spokes on a regular basis. I had them rebuilt by

builder

Quoted message said:

guru Dave Thomas (http://speeddream.com/) and the problems ceased. If you
are leaning toward handbuilt wheels, you may want to give Dave a call.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

"Chris Neary" <[email hidden] > wrote

Quoted message said:

The problem is all else is rarely equal. A set of light wheels built by a
competent factory or a sharp wheelbuilder can be much more reliable than

a

Quoted message said:

heavier wheel built by a so-so builder.

Quoted message said:

I had a set of 32 spoke wheels built by a supposedly local good
builder a number of years ago. My wife, who weighs all of 100 pounds,
proceeded to break spokes on a regular basis. I had them rebuilt by

builder

Quoted message said:

guru Dave Thomas (http://speeddream.com/) and the problems ceased.

The problem of spoke breakage is entirely solved by stress relieving. You
don't need a guru to do this, it's easy to learn and quick to do. Any pair
of standard wheels can be tensioned/stress relieved and trued in an hour by
somebody with modest skill; the only tool needed is a spoke wrench. See the
FAQ and Sheldon Brown's site for how-to.

Peter Cole said:

"Chris Neary" wrote

Quoted message said:

Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring
bike which may carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely
stable. Bikes not designed for loaded touring will be quicker
handling. This geometry difference *may* contribute to your
difficulty in keeping up on downhills.

This is neither logical nor true.

It could well be true, but for a different reason. Touring frames
tend to have a more upright position than racing frames, making it
more difficult to get a decent aero tuck position.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

"Chris Neary" wrote

Quoted message said:

Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring
bike which may carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely
stable. Bikes not designed for loaded touring will be quicker
handling. This geometry difference *may* contribute to your
difficulty in keeping up on downhills.

This is neither logical nor true.

It could well be true, but for a different reason. Touring frames
tend to have a more upright position than racing frames, making it
more difficult to get a decent aero tuck position.

How do touring frames have a more upright position? (I have 4 and haven't
seen it).

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:45:31 GMT, "Peter Cole"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<L52vd.488839$wV.289690@attbi_s54>:

Quoted message said:

How do touring frames have a more upright position? (I have 4 and haven't
seen it).

Well, y'see, touring frames are all uprighty and wedgesome, whereas my
bike is laid right back As Nature Intended ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which
may carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not designed
for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference *may*
contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.

This is neither logical nor true.

Are you arguing

1) touring bikes are not designed to be more stable than "performance"
bikes,

OR

2) Geometry differences would not effect one's ability in keeping up on
downhills

OR

3) Both.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Prize the doubt, low kinds exist without"
- Inscription at Ramsmeyer Hall, Ohio State University

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

It could well be true, but for a different reason. Touring frames
tend to have a more upright position than racing frames, making it
more difficult to get a decent aero tuck position.

How do touring frames have a more upright position? (I have 4 and haven't
seen it).

Maybe I made too general a statement, but I can only get my bars
about 2" below the saddle on my Klein tourer.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

It could well be true, but for a different reason. Touring frames
tend to have a more upright position than racing frames, making it
more difficult to get a decent aero tuck position.

How do touring frames have a more upright position? (I have 4 and

haven't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seen it).

Maybe I made too general a statement, but I can only get my bars
about 2" below the saddle on my Klein tourer.

You must have very little seatpost showing, which is a pretty rare setup
these days.

"Chris Neary" <[email hidden] > wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which
may carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not

designed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference

*may*

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.

This is neither logical nor true.

Are you arguing

1) touring bikes are not designed to be more stable than "performance"
bikes,

What do you mean by more stable?

Quoted message said:

OR

2) Geometry differences would not effect one's ability in keeping up on
downhills

What geometry differences are you talking about?

Why don't you just explain your claims. & we'll go from there?

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe I made too general a statement, but I can only get my bars
about 2" below the saddle on my Klein tourer.

You must have very little seatpost showing, which is a pretty rare setup
these days.

About a "fistfull of seat post", which once upon a time was the
standard. The classic touring frame builders like Rivendell still
recommend this:

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/bikes_framesize.html
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Terry Morse said:

Peter Cole said:

You must have very little seatpost showing, which is a pretty rare setup
these days.

About a "fistfull of seat post", which once upon a time was the
standard.

I guess I should have included a photo:

http://bike.terrymorse.com/spooktacular041030/pages/IMG_0854.html

Maybe it's more like a fistfull and a half of seat post.

Quoted message said:

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Quoted message said:

"Peter Cole" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

You must have very little seatpost showing, which is a pretty rare setup
these days.

Peter, I think that maybe you are making the same type of mistake I make
sometimes when discussing fit, tire pressures, etcetera. Quite often I'll hear
or read a concern that another rider might have and think, "Are they nuts?!?
I've *never* had to give that a second thought." Then if I think about it more
I understand how a rider of greatly different stature than me might have that
particular concern. You're a fairly tall individual so I'm sure that all your
bikes have a lot of seatpost showing. That doesn't hold true for a lot of other
riders, particularly those that are either of "normal" height (under 5'
6"...<g>😉 or who aren't riding compact frames.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1) touring bikes are not designed to be more stable than "performance"
bikes,

What do you mean by more stable?

Less sensitive to steering inputs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2) Geometry differences would not effect one's ability in keeping up on
downhills

What geometry differences are you talking about?

Principally trail.

Quoted message said:

Why don't you just explain your claims. & we'll go from there?

Why didn't you ask nicely in the first place?

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Information, usually seen as the precondition of debate,
is better understood as its by-product." - Christopher Lasch