One last set of questions

"Steve L" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It appears that you don't like answering questions from newbies who
are looking for a cheap (sub £500) bike, but if you'll all just grant
me this one, I promise not to ask any more questions and to leave you
alone. Deal? ;-)

I've decided that I'll definitely be going for either a Edinburgh
Cuillin 3HT '04 or a Revolution Cuillin '04, but which one? They're
the same price but I need some advice from you guys, please?

Could you please review the specs of both bikes at the website below
and give me your professional opinions & the pros and cons of each
model when compared to each other?

http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/

Now that's confusing - they seem to be almost the same bike. I'd ask EBC
what the intended difference between the two is. (the 3HT claims to be
lighter...)

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

"Steve L" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It appears that you don't like answering questions from newbies who
are looking for a cheap (sub £500) bike, but if you'll all just grant
me this one, I promise not to ask any more questions and to leave you
alone. Deal? ;-)

I've decided that I'll definitely be going for either a Edinburgh
Cuillin 3HT '04 or a Revolution Cuillin '04, but which one? They're
the same price but I need some advice from you guys, please?

Could you please review the specs of both bikes at the website below
and give me your professional opinions & the pros and cons of each
model when compared to each other?

http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/

Now that's confusing - they seem to be almost the same bike. I'd ask EBC
what the intended difference between the two is. (the 3HT claims to be
lighter...)

Thanks Clive, I might just ring them if you guys don't turn up trumps
(which I doubt).

If it makes it easier, and so that everyone doesn't have to visit the
site, I'll list the specs for each bike below:

EC = Edinburgh Cuillin 3HT '04
RC = Revolution Cuillin '04

Frame:
EC - 7005-series Aluminium
RC - Aluminum

Forks:
EC - SunTour XC60 suspension fork 75mm travel.
RC - SunTour XC60 75

Wheels:
EC - Deep-section Vuelta Freeway rims
RC - Alloy QR.

Tyres:
EC - WTB (Wilderness Trail Bikes) Velociraptor 26 x 2.1
RC - Tioga Factory XC 26x1.95

Transmission:
EC - 24-speed Shimano EZ Fire shifters
Shimano Acera gears
SunTour XCC300PB chainset 22/32/42
Shimano 11-30 cassette
Steel cage pedals - toeclip compatible

RC - Shimano Altus 24-speed Rapidfire shifters
Shimano Acera rear / Tourney front gears
SunTour chainset with 22/32/42 chainrings
Shimano 11-32 cassette
Metal-caged pedals, toeclips compatible

Brakes:
EC - Tektro V-brakes with Allen key-fit brake blocks. Shimano levers.
RC - Tektro V-brakes. Shimano Altus levers

Handlebars:
EC - Tioga aluminium riser bars
RC - Tioga riser bars and Aheadstem

Saddle:
EC - Dual fabric anti-compression saddle on alloy seatpost
RC - WTB Rocket Saddle

Weight:
EC - 30lb/13.6kg
RC - 33.5lb/15.2kg.

Thanks for your help.

"Steve L" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It appears that you don't like answering questions from newbies who
are looking for a cheap (sub £500) bike, but if you'll all just grant
me this one, I promise not to ask any more questions and to leave you
alone. Deal? ;-)

The standard question asked by this group when anyone asks 'what bike should
I get?' is 'what do you want it for?'

As a general rule we get sniffy about bikes of £200 or less -- which neither
of your options are. Also as a general rule we suggest leaving out
unnecessary stuff -- e.g. bouncy forks if you want a road bike -- and to
concentrate on the best basic kit -- frame and transmission.

EBC bikes are often suggested as good VFM. Nothing earth shattering but
good for the dosh.

You might also look at the Dawes and Ridgeback ranges.

If possible have a test ride. Can you visit an EBC shop? If not you are
taking a bit more of a chance.

T

PS -- I don't recognise your claim of any unwillingness to provide advice.
This group has always seemed welcoming and helpful to honest questions --
though this is usenet -- you have to treat any advice with care.

in message <[email hidden]>, Steve L

(') said:

It appears that you don't like answering questions from newbies who
are looking for a cheap (sub £500) bike, but if you'll all just grant
me this one, I promise not to ask any more questions and to leave you
alone. Deal? ;-)

I've decided that I'll definitely be going for either a Edinburgh
Cuillin 3HT '04 or a Revolution Cuillin '04, but which one? They're
the same price but I need some advice from you guys, please?

Very similar bikes. The brakes, transmission components and suspension
fork are all common. The primary difference between these two is the
frame, with the Revolution having more funky looking tubes. In
principle the tapered, shaped tubes could give more stiffness to the
frame in key places but seeing that neither frame has butted tubes it's
extremely likely that both are stronger and stiffer than they need to
be anyway.

The Cuillin 3HT comes with Velociraptor tyres which are my top choice of
off-road tyres for use in Scottish conditions - cope well with mud,
loose surfaces, and gravel while not too slow on firm surfaces. Also
the 3HT is specified as '7005 Aluminium', whereas the Revolution
Courier is only specified as 'Aluminium'. Aluminium, as used in bicycle
tubesets, is alloyed and heat treated in a variety of different ways,
which make a real difference to the quality of the finished product.
7005 is not a particularly good grade of Aluminium tubing, but at least
you know what you're getting.

On the whole in my experience the Co-op's own brand bikes are very good
value for money.

What I'd advise is go and sit on the bikes and if possible try a bit of
a ride on each. The one that feels better (after adjusting for fit) is
the one to get. If they both feel much the same, go for the one which
is lighter. If they're pretty much the same weight, my on-paper
preference would be the 3HT, mainly because of the tyres.

If you're riding either of these bikes in serious off-road conditions
you will need a fork upgrade before very long - the SunTour forks are
not brilliant.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

... a mild, inoffensive sadist...

Steve L said:

It appears that you don't like answering questions from newbies who
are looking for a cheap (sub £500) bike, but if you'll all just grant
me this one, I promise not to ask any more questions and to leave you
alone. Deal? ;-)

Judging by the live threads I'm looking at, we don't seem to talk much
about cycling whoever is asking. The main active discussion with 315
posts is about religion and [censored].

Quoted message said:

I've decided that I'll definitely be going for either a Edinburgh
Cuillin 3HT '04 or a Revolution Cuillin '04, but which one? They're
the same price but I need some advice from you guys, please?

Suitability depends entirely on your intended use. Without trawling
through detailed specs, these seem to be a little too rugged and
knobbly-tyred for pure road use. I'm not an MTB person but assume that
Edinburgh bikes know their stuff and have created good, basic off
roaders. Maybe someone who knows more than me can say whether 15.2 kg
is heavy for this type of bike.

Quoted message said:

Could you please review the specs of both bikes at the website below
and give me your professional opinions & the pros and cons of each
model when compared to each other?

http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/

Thanks.

Steve L said:

It appears that you don't like answering questions from newbies who
are looking for a cheap (sub £500) bike, but if you'll all just grant
me this one, I promise not to ask any more questions and to leave you
alone. Deal? ;-)

Newbies are always welcome, and bikes under £500 are most certainly
not viewed as being unworthy of our opinions. If you had asked about a
sub £200 or, perish the thought, a £99.99 Toys-R-Us [1] special then
yes, we would be advising you to stay clear. But around the £500 mark
- I'm positively jealous!

It is often the case that we don't mind answering questions about
cheap bikes, but the person asking the question tends not to like the
answer.

--
Amazon: "If you are interested in 'Asimov's I-Robot',
you may also be interested in 'Garfield - The Movie'.
... erm, how do they figure that one out?

Steve L said:

It appears that you don't like answering questions from newbies who
are looking for a cheap (sub £500) bike, but if you'll all just grant
me this one, I promise not to ask any more questions and to leave you
alone. Deal? ;-)

Newbies are always welcome, and bikes under £500 are most certainly
not viewed as being unworthy of our opinions. If you had asked about a
sub £200 or, perish the thought, a £99.99 Toys-R-Us [1] special then
yes, we would be advising you to stay clear. But around the £500 mark
- I'm positively jealous!

It is often the case that we don't mind answering questions about
cheap bikes, but the person asking the question tends not to like the
answer.

Love and hugs from Rich x

[1] What is the Ascii code for the back to front 'R'?
--
Amazon: "If you are interested in 'Asimov's I-Robot',
you may also be interested in 'Garfield - The Movie'.
... erm, how do they figure that one out?

Steve L said:

It appears that you don't like answering questions from newbies who
are looking for a cheap (sub £500) bike, but if you'll all just grant
me this one, I promise not to ask any more questions and to leave you
alone. Deal? ;-)

Far from it. There have been plentry of recommendations for sub-500
bikes here in the past.

Quoted message said:

I've decided that I'll definitely be going for either a Edinburgh
Cuillin 3HT '04 or a Revolution Cuillin '04, but which one? They're
the same price but I need some advice from you guys, please?

As a purchaser of a sub-500 bike from EBC several years ago I can
certainly EBC bikes in general (except their sub-100 MTB they had a
couple of years ago.)

Quoted message said:

Could you please review the specs of both bikes at the website below
and give me your professional opinions & the pros and cons of each
model when compared to each other?

They look like essentially the same bikes to me, forks, mech,
brakes...though they do seem to have different frame tubing. I'm a bit
confused as to EBC separation of the EBC and Revolution brands to be honest.

Colin

Richard Bates said:

[1] What is the Ascii code for the back to front 'R'?

Well, the HTML entity is Я -- you could always post a link when
referring to Toys Я Us.

http://www.widerworld.co.uk/ya.php

Steve L vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

It appears that you don't like answering questions from newbies who
are looking for a cheap (sub £500) bike, but if you'll all just grant
me this one, I promise not to ask any more questions and to leave you
alone. Deal? ;-)

I've decided that I'll definitely be going for either a Edinburgh
Cuillin 3HT '04 or a Revolution Cuillin '04, but which one? They're
the same price but I need some advice from you guys, please?

Could you please review the specs of both bikes at the website below
and give me your professional opinions & the pros and cons of each
model when compared to each other?

http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/

Thanks.

If I were to spend your £229, I'd probably go for, based on their
descriptions, the EBC 3HT. It's lighter, has better tyres, stainless spokes
(though the other one _may_ have, they aren't specified) and doesn't have a
strange frame tube section ...

But, with £500 to spend, I'd go for a different bike altogether, and add £50
for a Specialised Rockhopper
http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=19868 although
I'd _really_ look on-line for a discounted 04 or even 03 model year bike ..
😉

such as http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=4083

However .. I'd try to get a ride on one before buying, especialy if I didn't
know what the particular bike felt like. After all, what suits me, might
not suit you. Fit and Feel are most important, probably but also arguably,
more important than any spangly bits .. 😉

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."
(8(|) Homer Rules !!!

Quoted message said:

Could you please review the specs of both bikes at the website below
and give me your professional opinions & the pros and cons of each
model when compared to each other?

http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/

Thanks.

My only criticism would be the frames being 7005 based (at least one
but both probably). You can get bikes from Giant and GT as well as
other brands I bet for similar money that have the more crack
resistant 6061 type frames that are stronger and possibly lighter
(depending on actual frame design). As I understand it most 7005
frames are only heat strengthened at the welds but the 6061 type
frames are completely heat strengthened over the entire frame. The
7005 frames have a tendency to crack because the frame is a mixture of
both heat strengthened and non heat strengthened. Also 7005 is an
indication that the frame may have been made in a less sophisticated
factory in taiwan where as 6061 is an indication of more advanced
welding and frame assembly (probably made in Giant's huge factory).

Theres nothing really wrong with 7005 but I just think if your paying
reasonable money it would be better to have 6061. As aluminium has a
tendency to weaken with age unlike steel (unless it rusts) I think
6061 is a better long term bet.

I personally wouldn't consider your budget cheap as the vast majority
of bikes sold in this country are well below £200.

in message <[email hidden]>, Richard Bates

(') said:

[1] What is the Ascii code for the back to front 'R'?

There isn't one. The American Standard Code for Information Interchange
is a 7 bit code, which you can think of as being divided into four 5
bit pages, thus

page 0: control codes
page 1: numerals (padded with punctuation)
page 2: upper case (padded with punctuation)
page 3: lower case (padded with punctuation)

Although there are 32 characters in each page, the needs of punctuation
mean that there isn't room for any accented, umlauted, or non-latin
characters.

This problem was first addressed by a series of 8 bit codes (ISO 8859)
of which the one most familiar in the UK is IS0 8859-1; this too is a
strictly latin alphabet. For a mix of latin and cyrillic characters you
need ISO 8859-5, in which the character code for capital Ï (the
reversed 'R'😉 is 207 decimal (CF in hex). The more general solution
would be to use UTF-8, of course.

To post to Usenet in 8859-5, one should set the Content-type header to:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-5

If I've got things set up correctly (and that's a big if) this message
should be so formatted. However even if I get posting it right I
wouldn't bet too much on many people's newsclients being configured to
handle it properly.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; better than your average performing pineapple

On 13/12/04 12:55 pm, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

If I've got things set up correctly (and that's a big if) this message
should be so formatted. However even if I get posting it right I
wouldn't bet too much on many people's newsclients being configured to
handle it properly.

Strangely enough, Entourage on a mac gives (descriptive in [], otherwise
literal):
[R reversed][E reversed]: H[o vertical line][wierd w] t[o vertical line]
(and so on)

...d

in message <[email hidden]>, David Martin

(') said:

On 13/12/04 12:55 pm, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

If I've got things set up correctly (and that's a big if) this
message should be so formatted. However even if I get posting it
right I wouldn't bet too much on many people's newsclients being
configured to handle it properly.

Strangely enough, Entourage on a mac gives (descriptive in [],
otherwise literal):
[R reversed][E reversed]: H[o vertical line][wierd w] t[o vertical
[line]
(and so on)

Good! That one passes, then.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Error 1109: There is no message for this error

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David Martin

(') said:

On 13/12/04 12:55 pm, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

If I've got things set up correctly (and that's a big if) this
message should be so formatted. However even if I get posting it
right I wouldn't bet too much on many people's newsclients being
configured to handle it properly.

Strangely enough, Entourage on a mac gives (descriptive in [],
otherwise literal):
[R reversed][E reversed]: H[o vertical line][wierd w] t[o vertical
[line]
(and so on)

Good! That one passes, then.

Thunderbird 1.0 has no problems, lots of nice Cyrillic characters.

Colin

Colin Blackburn said:

Thunderbird 1.0 has no problems, lots of nice Cyrillic characters.

I suspect that depends on the configuration of your OS. TBird 1.0 on
Linux currently gives me what appears to be domino tiles! I may have to
add the cyrillic fonts in case I ever decide to attempt Russian again.

Jon

Not Responding said:

Judging by the live threads I'm looking at, we don't seem to talk much
about cycling whoever is asking. The main active discussion with 315
posts is about religion and [censored].

Sorry. That one's partly my fault. We do appear to have bored poor
little h*lf-w*t enough to make it go away though! :-)

Jon

in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk ('') said:

Colin Blackburn said:

Thunderbird 1.0 has no problems, lots of nice Cyrillic characters.

I suspect that depends on the configuration of your OS. TBird 1.0 on
Linux currently gives me what appears to be domino tiles!

Not on your OS but on your installed fonts. What OS do you think I'm
using?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another nick in the ball
-- Think Droid