Unbelievable ...

Steven L. Sheffield said:

I think this newsgroup is finally dead.

Only two new messages between 8:45 pm (MT) and 4:48 am (MT), and they're
both in the KKKunich for President thread.

I was just thinking the same thing.

Quoted message said:

The only mention of the US Cyclocross National Championships in the last 24
hours is Ewoud's mention that JP wasn't at the Bosduincross in Kalmthout
because he's in Portland (where he won his 3rd consecutive national
championship, by the way).

I want to add some racing content but I've pretty much got nothing.

OK -- here's a little tidbit that is boring but at least closer to
interesting (for me) -- I went to get a bike fit and the guy doing it
(who I respect a lot) lowered the saddle 2.5cm and shortened my stem
by 4cm (though he moved the saddle back 1cm, so reach is "only" 3cm
shorter).

I felt so bad. But then I looked at my notes from the past and saw I
rode even lower while a beginner, and just a little bit higher than
where he has it when I was doing pretty well about five years ago.

JT

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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steven L. Sheffield said:

I think this newsgroup is finally dead.

Only two new messages between 8:45 pm (MT) and 4:48 am (MT), and they're
both in the KKKunich for President thread.

I was just thinking the same thing.

Quoted message said:

The only mention of the US Cyclocross National Championships in the last
24
hours is Ewoud's mention that JP wasn't at the Bosduincross in Kalmthout
because he's in Portland (where he won his 3rd consecutive national
championship, by the way).

I want to add some racing content but I've pretty much got nothing.

OK -- here's a little tidbit that is boring but at least closer to
interesting (for me) -- I went to get a bike fit and the guy doing it
(who I respect a lot) lowered the saddle 2.5cm and shortened my stem
by 4cm (though he moved the saddle back 1cm, so reach is "only" 3cm
shorter).

I felt so bad. But then I looked at my notes from the past and saw I
rode even lower while a beginner, and just a little bit higher than
where he has it when I was doing pretty well about five years ago.

JT

Did you consider shrinkage with age due to cartilage compression and wear?
;-)

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:14:11 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Did you consider shrinkage with age due to cartilage compression and wear?
;-)

Not sure about that, but the new position is noticeable easier on my,
er, parts due to more weight on the feet and less on the saddle.

JT

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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:14:11 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Did you consider shrinkage with age due to cartilage compression and wear?
;-)

Not sure about that, but the new position is noticeable easier on my,
er, parts due to more weight on the feet and less on the saddle.

JT

About two years ago, I too had a proper fitting and the person who did it,
excellent local shop manager in Northampton (Joe Mai), lowered my seat by
about 1cm. It felt strange at first, but it is much more efficient. The
saddle height and set back are probably the most important factors. There
is more to "play" with on the stem extension for road riding. It will no
doubt affect power, but depending on the type of riding/racing, comfort
becomes a more subjective factor to add to the mix.

I tried telling my wife that due to the new fit, three of my frames should
really be replaced with different sized ones. She said that I could, but it
might lead to my replacement.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > I tried telling my wife
that due to the new fit, three of my frames should

Quoted message said:

really be replaced with different sized ones. She said that I could, but
it might lead to my replacement.

I told my wife I needed to buy a time trial bike. She said, "OK."

Huh? Now I'm suspicious.

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message
de :
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OK -- here's a little tidbit that is boring but at least closer to
interesting (for me) -- I went to get a bike fit and the guy doing it
(who I respect a lot) lowered the saddle 2.5cm and shortened my stem
by 4cm (though he moved the saddle back 1cm, so reach is "only" 3cm
shorter).

I felt so bad. But then I looked at my notes from the past and saw I
rode even lower while a beginner, and just a little bit higher than
where he has it when I was doing pretty well about five years ago.

I recall, when I was at the coaches' camp at Lake Placid in ?? 1989,
everyone was told that their saddle heights were too low. They raised mine
by 4 cv - and all at once - and the manner of measurement was quite
different from what I had been used to over here.

When I got back to France, I noticed that the local racers, national elites,
and the top internationals were all riding much lower than me, and I went
back to the old saddle height. Miracle work. Honestly felt an immediate
relief, even if it felt a little clumsy.

What are the formulas you use in the US to estimate correct saddle height ?
--
Bonne route,

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

From "Sandy":

Quoted message said:

What are the formulas you use in the US >to estimate correct saddle height ?

I ride back and forth near reflective store/office windows, go for a nice bend
in the knees as they comes around, with heel "flat". Piece of tape to mark the
SP if it's coming out for some reason. --TP

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

I felt so bad. But then I looked at my notes from the past and saw I
rode even lower while a beginner, and just a little bit higher than
where he has it when I was doing pretty well about five years ago

BTW, does anyone doing rollers find that they change bike position
when riding without much resistance, then have the bike feel wrong
when on the road? I feel like the saddle is too low on rollers because
it highlights rock, but it feels way too high back on the road.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

I think lots of riders tend to have their seat too high, including some
really good riders.

I found over the years I'de raised my seat a few cms, but anyone wold
say it was within normal limits (my hips didn't wiggle etc.), but I
started getting bad back pain on and off the bike. I tried doing "core"
stengthening etc which didn't help.

The only relief I found was to drop my seat maybe 3 cms, and still it
took me maybe 6mos before my back recovered. I'm about a cm lower than
the old Lemond formula.

This also means I was able to drop my handlebars by about the same
amount.

"Curtis L. Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

I felt so bad. But then I looked at my notes from the past and saw I
rode even lower while a beginner, and just a little bit higher than
where he has it when I was doing pretty well about five years ago

BTW, does anyone doing rollers find that they change bike position
when riding without much resistance, then have the bike feel wrong
when on the road? I feel like the saddle is too low on rollers because
it highlights rock, but it feels way too high back on the road.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

I've always felt like the reach to the hoods seems way longer when the bike
is on the rollers. I can't imagine why. So I usually ride with the heels
of my hands right in the top bend of the bars. On longer rides, my hands
end up very sore. But when I get out on the road, the very same bike feels
perfect. Can't say why. Always been that way with all the bikes I've owned
and used on the rollers.

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OK -- here's a little tidbit that is boring but at least closer to
interesting (for me) -- I went to get a bike fit and the guy doing it
(who I respect a lot) lowered the saddle 2.5cm and shortened my stem
by 4cm (though he moved the saddle back 1cm, so reach is "only" 3cm
shorter).

I felt so bad. But then I looked at my notes from the past and saw I
rode even lower while a beginner, and just a little bit higher than
where he has it when I was doing pretty well about five years ago.

I've been converting over to compact setups. I've found that I can match my
best times from years ago on climbs using much lower gears and at the tops
I'm not blown apart. I've managed to spin out the 50-12 one time when I was
feeling really good. I actually rode at 36 mph for a little way and the only
time I was able to do that before was when I'd been racing for 3 years.

I'm sold. Wish they'd had that sort of gearing back when I was racing.

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the formulas you use in the US to estimate correct saddle height
?

If some's good, more's better and too much is just right.

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've always felt like the reach to the hoods seems way longer when the
bike is on the rollers. I can't imagine why. So I usually ride with the
heels of my hands right in the top bend of the bars. On longer rides, my
hands end up very sore. But when I get out on the road, the very same
bike feels perfect. Can't say why. Always been that way with all the
bikes I've owned and used on the rollers.

Because the front wheel is 2" lower compared to the back putting a lot more
weight on your hands?

On 12/13/2004 04:59 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

Quoted message said:

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've always felt like the reach to the hoods seems way longer when the
bike is on the rollers. I can't imagine why. So I usually ride with the
heels of my hands right in the top bend of the bars. On longer rides, my
hands end up very sore. But when I get out on the road, the very same
bike feels perfect. Can't say why. Always been that way with all the
bikes I've owned and used on the rollers.

Because the front wheel is 2" lower compared to the back putting a lot more
weight on your hands?

Not on rollers. If anything, the front wheel is slightly higher, since it's
centered on the front roller, wheras the rear wheel sits between the two
rear rollers.

And anyone who rides a wind-trainer without levelling the bike with a
front-wheel riser (aka "the phone book"😉 is an idiot.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've always felt like the reach to the hoods seems way longer when the
bike is on the rollers. I can't imagine why. So I usually ride with
the
heels of my hands right in the top bend of the bars. On longer rides,
my
hands end up very sore. But when I get out on the road, the very same
bike feels perfect. Can't say why. Always been that way with all the
bikes I've owned and used on the rollers.

Because the front wheel is 2" lower compared to the back putting a lot
more
weight on your hands?

Not on rollers. If anything, the front wheel is slightly higher, since
it's
centered on the front roller, wheras the rear wheel sits between the two
rear rollers.

And anyone who rides a wind-trainer without levelling the bike with a
front-wheel riser (aka "the phone book"😉 is an idiot.

Bob, do you think your posture is the same on both road and rollers? Where
you sit on the saddle and/or the angle of your back?

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:44:38 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:14:11 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Did you consider shrinkage with age due to cartilage compression and wear?
;-)

Not sure about that, but the new position is noticeable easier on my,
er, parts due to more weight on the feet and less on the saddle.

JT

About two years ago, I too had a proper fitting and the person who did it,
excellent local shop manager in Northampton (Joe Mai), lowered my seat by
about 1cm. It felt strange at first, but it is much more efficient.

I should mention that the current fit is 1.5cm lower than the last pro
fit I had which was by Bill Peterson or Max Testa (I don't remember
which -- they gave similar prescriptions around the same time). I'd
slowly gone up an cm from that over about five years.

JT

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Steven L. Sheffield said:

And anyone who rides a wind-trainer without levelling the bike with a
front-wheel riser (aka "the phone book"😉 is an idiot.

Well, you could justify doing it sans riser by thinking that you're
hammering down a hill. Of course, the reality is that being tipped forward
on a wind-trainer and hammering down a hill are two different things,
feelwise.

"Riser good."

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Tom Kunich said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OK -- here's a little tidbit that is boring but at least closer to
interesting (for me) -- I went to get a bike fit and the guy doing

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(who I respect a lot) lowered the saddle 2.5cm and shortened my

stem

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

by 4cm (though he moved the saddle back 1cm, so reach is "only" 3cm
shorter).

I felt so bad. But then I looked at my notes from the past and saw

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rode even lower while a beginner, and just a little bit higher than
where he has it when I was doing pretty well about five years ago.

I've been converting over to compact setups. I've found that I can

match my

Quoted message said:

best times from years ago on climbs using much lower gears and at the

tops

Quoted message said:

I'm not blown apart. I've managed to spin out the 50-12 one time when

I was

Quoted message said:

feeling really good. I actually rode at 36 mph for a little way and

the only

Quoted message said:

time I was able to do that before was when I'd been racing for 3

years.

Quoted message said:

I'm sold. Wish they'd had that sort of gearing back when I was

racing.

They did. I've used a 50t big chaining on both my Shimano and Campy
sized cranks for about for the last 15 years.

On 14 Dec 2004 05:58:42 -0800, "Ed Sullivan" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OK -- here's a little tidbit that is boring but at least closer to
interesting (for me) -- I went to get a bike fit and the guy doing

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(who I respect a lot) lowered the saddle 2.5cm and shortened my

stem

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

by 4cm (though he moved the saddle back 1cm, so reach is "only" 3cm
shorter).

I felt so bad. But then I looked at my notes from the past and saw

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rode even lower while a beginner, and just a little bit higher than
where he has it when I was doing pretty well about five years ago.

I've been converting over to compact setups. I've found that I can

match my

Quoted message said:

best times from years ago on climbs using much lower gears and at the

tops

Quoted message said:

I'm not blown apart. I've managed to spin out the 50-12 one time when

I was

Quoted message said:

feeling really good. I actually rode at 36 mph for a little way and

the only

Quoted message said:

time I was able to do that before was when I'd been racing for 3

years.

Quoted message said:

I'm sold. Wish they'd had that sort of gearing back when I was

racing.

They did. I've used a 50t big chaining on both my Shimano and Campy
sized cranks for about for the last 15 years.

Ummm, Tom should note that when I said riding lower I didn't mean
lower gearing, or lower altitude, or lower vocal range or even the
lower 48 states (though I've never been to Alaska or Hawaii). I meant
a lower seat position.

JT

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