A patching dilemma...

Matt O'Toole said:

How can I buy a bunch of the smallest size patches? Most patch kits come with a
bunch of big ones, but only two or four small ones. The larger ones don't fit
on road tubes without wrapping around them, so it's hard to get a good bond all
the way around, to keep the edges from peeling. I haven't had one fail in
awhile, but smaller patches would be better. Can someone get these in bulk, and
sell me a bunch? I'm sick of paying $4.00 for a patch kit with 2 good patches
in it, and a bunch of [censored] I'll never use.

Scissors. - OR - Want a nice feathered edge, lick an Xacto and use that to cut
on a bevel.

Maybe lick your finger and use that to lube the blade.

Ron

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How can I buy a bunch of the smallest size patches? Most patch kits come
with a
bunch of big ones, but only two or four small ones. The larger ones don't
fit
on road tubes without wrapping around them, so it's hard to get a good
bond all
the way around, to keep the edges from peeling. I haven't had one fail in
awhile, but smaller patches would be better. Can someone get these in
bulk, and
sell me a bunch? I'm sick of paying $4.00 for a patch kit with 2 good
patches
in it, and a bunch of [censored] I'll never use.

Matt,

A couple of options:

Innovations 20mm tire patches box of 100 for about $18:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=11626257831&d=single&c=Tire%20Tube&sc=Repair%20Kits%20and%20Supplies&tc=Patches&item_id=IN-9028

or Rema 1" (about 25mm?) tire patches, box of 100 for $14.75:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=11626257831&d=single&c=Tire%20Tube&sc=Repair%20Kits%20and%20Supplies&tc=Patches&item_id=RE-F1P

Third Hand has Rema 1" patches, box of 100 for $13.37:
http://www.thethirdhand.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Tire/Tube&sc=Repair&tc=&item_id=RE-F1P&id=986571315409

Quoted message said:

Also, is it better to remove the plastic, leave it on, or leave it on as
the
patch cures but take it off before using the tube? I do let my patches
cure
overnight whenever possible.

I usually take the plastic off. Jobst also talks about this in the Bicycle
FAQ (now updated, with pictures, by Sheldon Brown):

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html

Hi Matt
Bike tools Etc sells 100 small Ream for a very reasonable price ~$15.
I do believe that they have a shelf life, although I don't know what it
is. I've been hesitating to buy 100 because of this. Would you be
interested in splitting or thirding 100? Where do you live? I'm in the
SF Bay Area.
John

Hi Matt
Bike tools Etc sells 100 small Ream for a very reasonable price ~$15.
I do believe that they have a shelf life, although I don't know what it
is. I've been hesitating to buy 100 because of this. Would you be
interested in splitting or thirding 100? Where do you live? I'm in the
SF Bay Area.
John

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:47:42 -0500, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

How can I buy a bunch of the smallest size patches? Most patch kits come with a
bunch of big ones, but only two or four small ones. The larger ones don't fit
on road tubes without wrapping around them, so it's hard to get a good bond all
the way around, to keep the edges from peeling. I haven't had one fail in
awhile, but smaller patches would be better. Can someone get these in bulk, and
sell me a bunch? I'm sick of paying $4.00 for a patch kit with 2 good patches
in it, and a bunch of [censored] I'll never use.

I just buy the large package of them from the auto parts store and cut
the larger ones into smaller pieces. The smaller ones in the kit
(about one inch square) are near to ideal for the majority of my
patching, but even they are a tad large on a road tube.

Alternately...

http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Tire/Tube&sc=Repair&tc=&item_id=RE-F1P&id=643283426177

alias

http://tinyurl.com/4trsp

or, if those are too big...

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=444609588553&d=single&c=Tire%20Tube&sc=Repair%20Kits%20and%20Supplies&tc=Patches&item_id=IN-9028

alias

http://tinyurl.com/4h2k6

Quoted message said:

Also, is it better to remove the plastic, leave it on, or leave it on as the
patch cures but take it off before using the tube? I do let my patches cure
overnight whenever possible.

My personal preference is to peel the non-glue-side plastic before
placing the patch, but I do not believe that it actually makes a
difference whether that's done before or after patch placement.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

Hi Matt
Bike tools Etc sells 100 small Ream for a very reasonable price ~$15.
I do believe that they have a shelf life, although I don't know what it
is. I've been hesitating to buy 100 because of this.

I'm on my second or third 100-box of Rema patches (it's been quite a few
years). They work pretty much the same now as when new.

One annoyance: In the latest box I bought (probably 15 years ago), the
foil peels off before the cellophane. (From the day I got the box) I
just catch a corner with a fingernail and peel away; it leaves an
annoying (but harmless) munged part on the edge of the patch.

Does anyone know if this is a common problem with Rema patches? I don't
remember it from the last box (but after 15 years, memory fades).

As for "glue" or vulcanizing fluid - I tried buying that in bulk, and it
definitely did NOT have shelf life. Now I go to a dept. store and buy
the cheapest patch kits I can, about $1.50, pitch the patches and use
the glue. I think I'm still far ahead overall in the cost of patching
supplies.

Mark Janeba

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:47:42 -0500, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

How can I buy a bunch of the smallest size patches? Most patch kits come with a
bunch of big ones, but only two or four small ones. The larger ones don't fit
on road tubes without wrapping around them, so it's hard to get a good bond all
the way around, to keep the edges from peeling. I haven't had one fail in
awhile, but smaller patches would be better. Can someone get these in bulk, and
sell me a bunch? I'm sick of paying $4.00 for a patch kit with 2 good patches
in it, and a bunch of [censored] I'll never use.

Also, is it better to remove the plastic, leave it on, or leave it on as the
patch cures but take it off before using the tube? I do let my patches cure
overnight whenever possible.

You local shop should be able to get you a box of 100 small patches
that are made by Innovations. I think that Innovations also has a
patch kit with 6 small patches only.

I never bother to take the plastic off. Usually, it just seems to
fall off by itself or disintegrate over time.

Mark, Ya Know, that's interesting.
I get a little nib about 1/2 the time. I've always thought it was
something I was doing wrong, but I'm not sure what. I try to leave the
clear plastic on even after mounting the tube, but it usually falls off
before. The hardest part for me is getting the patch centered. I've
developed a method to do that, but it takes too long. And yes I use
talcum powder, despite highly regarded advice to the contrary.
John

Matt O'Toole said:

How can I buy a bunch of the smallest size patches? Most patch kits
come with a bunch of big ones, but only two or four small ones.
The larger ones don't fit on road tubes without wrapping around them,
so it's hard to get a good bond all the way around, to keep the edges
from peeling. I haven't had one fail in awhile, but smaller patches
would be better.

Rema patches are available in a special kit for road bikes, which has
patches smaller than usual. The box has four round patches of about 3/4
inches and two larger ones. What you want is a black box, model "TT 04",
instead of the more common cyan one. I got mine from here:

http://www.starbike.com/php/suchen.php?page=1&lang=en&Hersteller=TIP+TOP&Suchbegriff=&SearchSubmit=Search

-as

Quoted message said:

Hi Matt
Bike tools Etc sells 100 small Ream for a very reasonable price ~$15.
I do believe that they have a shelf life, although I don't know what
it is. I've been hesitating to buy 100 because of this. Would you be
interested in splitting or thirding 100? Where do you live? I'm in the
SF Bay Area.
John

Sounds good. Check your email.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

Hi Matt
like tools Etc sells 100 small Ream for a very reasonable price ~$15.
I do believe that they have a shelf life, although I don't know what

it

Quoted message said:

is. I've been hesitating to buy 100 because of this. Would you be
interested in splitting or thirding 100? Where do you live? I'm in the
SF Bay Area.
John

i asked this group about shelf life last summer(?) & the opinions
were a very long time, pretty much indefinite.

Quoted message said:

As for "glue" or vulcanizing fluid - I tried buying that in bulk, and

it

Quoted message said:

definitely did NOT have shelf life. Now I go to a dept. store and buy
the cheapest patch kits I can, about $1.50, pitch the patches and use
the glue. I think I'm still far ahead overall in the cost of patching
supplies.

give 'rubber cement', the paper stuff, a try. i was fooling around
& made a 1-in x 3-in patch using an old inner tube, rubber cement &
naptha/Coleman fuel (as a liquid buffer) and lived to tell about it. i
had a tube with a 2 in split and wondered if it would work.
if i'm DIY a patch from an inner tube, i'll coat both surfaces with
the rubber cement after a naptha cleaning & allow both surfaces to
_dry_ (NO CHEATING!)

Per Mark Janeba:

Quoted message said:

One annoyance: In the latest box I bought (probably 15 years ago), the
foil peels off before the cellophane. (From the day I got the box) I
just catch a corner with a fingernail and peel away; it leaves an
annoying (but harmless) munged part on the edge of the patch.

Geeze, I thought that was the way they were supposed to work. All my tires
have patches covered with cellophane...
--
PeteCresswell

(Pete Cresswell) said:

Per Mark Janeba:

Quoted message said:

One annoyance: In the latest box I bought (probably 15 years ago), the
foil peels off before the cellophane. (From the day I got the box) I
just catch a corner with a fingernail and peel away; it leaves an
annoying (but harmless) munged part on the edge of the patch.

Geeze, I thought that was the way they were supposed to work. All my tires
have patches covered with cellophane...

The Rema patches I've used have a thin slit in the cellophane at the
center of the patch. Stretching the tube/patch after the repair
splits the cellophane at the slit and makes it easy to remove if
desired.

Peter said:

The Rema patches I've used have a thin slit in the cellophane at the
center of the patch. Stretching the tube/patch after the repair
splits the cellophane at the slit and makes it easy to remove if
desired.

I just wonder about the best practice WRT removing the cellophane. I suppose
it's there to keep the patch from drying out. But I'm sure it also helps
protect it from peeling off the tube, and/or sticking to the tire. OTOH, I
wonder if peeling it off helps the patch cure faster.

I bet Jobst knows...

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

Peter said:

The Rema patches I've used have a thin slit in the cellophane at the
center of the patch. Stretching the tube/patch after the repair
splits the cellophane at the slit and makes it easy to remove if
desired.

I just wonder about the best practice WRT removing the cellophane. I suppose
it's there to keep the patch from drying out. But I'm sure it also helps
protect it from peeling off the tube, and/or sticking to the tire. OTOH, I
wonder if peeling it off helps the patch cure faster.

I bet Jobst knows...

To quote Jobst Brandt, "It [cellophane cover] does hurt but not much.
The cellophane is non-stretch and the tube and tire are, so this has a
distortion effect that helps loosen a freshly applied patch, if this is
the only tube one has. The cellophane is made to be easily removed as I
previously explained.

Link to full post:
<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/070b771882bbaf34?dmode=source>.

--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island

Matt O'Toole said:

How can I buy a bunch of the smallest size patches? Most patch kits come with a
bunch of big ones, but only two or four small ones. The larger ones don't fit
on road tubes without wrapping around them, so it's hard to get a good bond all
the way around, to keep the edges from peeling. I haven't had one fail in
awhile, but smaller patches would be better. Can someone get these in bulk, and
sell me a bunch? I'm sick of paying $4.00 for a patch kit with 2 good patches
in it, and a bunch of [censored] I'll never use.

Also, is it better to remove the plastic, leave it on, or leave it on as the
patch cures but take it off before using the tube? I do let my patches cure
overnight whenever possible.

We stock boxes of 100. LBS can get them quickly - nearly
every distributor who sells patch kits also sells boxes of
patches.

The clear vinyl cover shows where a patch stitcher/patch
roller has been applied. Since you don't use one of those ,
peel it up if it comes easily, leave it if not. Doesn't matter.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

US$0.25 at http://www.biketekinc.com/

BikeTek, Inc.
957 Clock Tower Drive
Springfield, IL 62704

Phone: 217 - 787 - 2907
Fax: 217 - 787 - 9968
Email: [email hidden]

Matt O'Toole said:

How can I buy a bunch of the smallest size patches? Most patch kits come with a
bunch of big ones, but only two or four small ones. The larger ones don't fit
on road tubes without wrapping around them, so it's hard to get a good bond all
the way around, to keep the edges from peeling. I haven't had one fail in
awhile, but smaller patches would be better. Can someone get these in bulk, and
sell me a bunch? I'm sick of paying $4.00 for a patch kit with 2 good patches
in it, and a bunch of [censored] I'll never use.

Also, is it better to remove the plastic, leave it on, or leave it on as the
patch cures but take it off before using the tube? I do let my patches cure
overnight whenever possible.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

Mark, Ya Know, that's interesting.
I get a little nib about 1/2 the time. I've always thought it was
something I was doing wrong, but I'm not sure what. I try to leave the
clear plastic on even after mounting the tube, but it usually falls off
before. The hardest part for me is getting the patch centered. I've
developed a method to do that, but it takes too long. And yes I use
talcum powder, despite highly regarded advice to the contrary.
John

What is a nib?

To patch, I draw the tube across the back of my left hand,
injury centered, and hold the tube firmly in that hand.

Then I clean the area with a solvent , ideally Tech 2-Way
Prep, a patch-specific cleaner, on a clean cloth. Alcohol,
MEK, Trichlorethylene, tape deck cleaner or anything else
that evaporates cleanly will do. Anything that leaves a
residue won't help.

The older crowd smears patch cement on the area and shaves
that off with a pocket knife.

Now I have a chemically cleaned surface, dead flat, with the
hole centered and I haven't smeared my fingers across the
cleaned area.

Spread cement in an area slightly larger than your patch as
thinly and evenly as possible while remaining wet. Allow an
angel to pass. That in this case is ten to thirty seconds
until the glue looks dry.

Peel back the patch backing. With care you can get the
backing mostly off so you can hold a covered edge and keep
your fingers off the prepared patch. Press the patch firmly
over the injury and either use a patch stitcher or your
fingers to push the patch firmly onto the glued surface.

Some photos here might help:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/tubfix.html

Our FAQ is also instructive:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971