Kit Report - Paramo Alta 2 Jacket.

"Norman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bought this coat with donation from Christmas present money.

Initial impression.
Well made jacket with good fitted hood that can be rolled up into the
collar and held in place with plastic pop studs.
The outer material is of a low rustle finely woven cloth which feels
more like a coat lining rather than the stiffer stuff which is common
in this type of jacket. The lining is of equally fine material and has
a stretchy nature. The pockets are lined with a sort of mesh material.
The jacket has a fairly narrow zip that can be opened from either end
as is common today.
The storm flap lies below the zip and is closed by plastic pop studs.
The actual task of closing the flap is a bit fiddly and is not as easy
as if it was on the outside of the zip. (when closed, the zip would
approximate the two parts of the pop studs)
Each arm has an arm pit air vent which can be zipped/pop studded
closed.

Pockets consist of a large map pocket on the left closed by a zip.
A velcro closed chest pocket on the right which has a small plastic D
ring attached to the opening presumably for a compass and such like.
There is a fairly large security pocket inside the jacket with the 7
inch zipped opening parallel with the main jacket zip.
There are two hand warming pockets which are rather shallow and when
sitting articles can fall out easily.
The chest pockets are constructed in such a way as to hang proud of
the jacket front. The centre of the bottom of each pocket is stitched
to the jacket reducing bulging when the pockets are used.

The jacket has waist cord tensioning and also around the lower hem.
Each sleeve terminates in a velcro closed cuff with a rubber
adjustment strap. It would be possible to roll up each sleeve with the
cuff open.

Field test.
Tried the jacket out today while walking for an hour on Arden Moor
near Thirsk
Conditions: Strong westerly wind gusting up to about 30mph. Temp 2C
Altitude 1000ft. 20 minutes of torrential wind blown rain.

I remained totally dry with no internal condensation for the duration
of the walk. The rain beaded and ran off the jacket.
I wore a Lowe Alpine Dry Flow T shirt under the jacket.

Over all the jacket provided adequate rain and wind protection but was
not very warm (which is surprising considering the hype regarding
Paramo stuff being too warm)
A long sleeved fleece type top would be a better base layer than a
t-shirt.

Norman

The reason for the storm flap being beneath the zip is so that you can
popper it shut, then open the zip for ventilation. Works much better
than the other way round :o)

As for warmth, Paramo had a bit of a rough time with 'hot runners', and
have reduced the weight and warmth of the lining, making them more
suitable for 'normal' people (who amongst us considers themselves
normal?...). I went out in my Velez smock last week, and wore the paramo
base layer and explorer mid layer together under it. While moving
quickly it was a little warm, but when I stopped I was just peachy. I
also stayed dry for the whole trip.

I'd opt for the explorer or (as it fits the arm vents), the mountain
vent pull on for winter. Maybe drop the base layer if this is too much.
Overall, paramo isn't as hot as it used to be, and not as hot as many
seem to think.

Thanks for the report though :o)

Andy

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:19:36 -0000, "Andy Mott" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I went out in my Velez smock last week, and wore the paramo
base layer and explorer mid layer together under it.

I thought Paramo jackets were meant to act as both mid and waterproof
layer? Naturally I realise that people differ, and that that might not
be warm enough for some, but has there been an alteration in what I
thought was meant to be the default position i.e. that no mid layer is
needed?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:19:36 -0000, "Andy Mott" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I went out in my Velez smock last week, and wore the paramo
base layer and explorer mid layer together under it.

I thought Paramo jackets were meant to act as both mid and waterproof
layer? Naturally I realise that people differ, and that that might not
be warm enough for some, but has there been an alteration in what I
thought was meant to be the default position i.e. that no mid layer is
needed?

It depends :-)

How warm you run and what the temperature is are the key factors.

Paramo jackets were always intended as the shell layer but as they also
have some insulation they reduced the need for mid layers.

Having used both the original and current Paramo jackets I do find the
current ones less warm than the originals. I tend to run hot but with
the current Alta 2 jacket I need a base layer and a thin mid layer
(heavyweight base layer, Power Stretch, 100 weight fleece) as well to
stay warm in windy winter weather (temperatures below +5C).

In message <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:19:36 -0000, "Andy Mott" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I went out in my Velez smock last week, and wore the paramo
base layer and explorer mid layer together under it.

I thought Paramo jackets were meant to act as both mid and waterproof
layer? Naturally I realise that people differ, and that that might not
be warm enough for some, but has there been an alteration in what I
thought was meant to be the default position i.e. that no mid layer is
needed?

It depends :-)

How warm you run and what the temperature is are the key factors.

Paramo jackets were always intended as the shell layer but as they also
have some insulation they reduced the need for mid layers.

Having used both the original and current Paramo jackets I do find the
current ones less warm than the originals. I tend to run hot but with
the current Alta 2 jacket I need a base layer and a thin mid layer
(heavyweight base layer, Power Stretch, 100 weight fleece) as well to
stay warm in windy winter weather (temperatures below +5C).

On 4/1/05 6:25 pm, in article [email hidden],

Chris Townsend said:

Paramo jackets were always intended as the shell layer but as they also
have some insulation they reduced the need for mid layers.

Having used both the original and current Paramo jackets I do find the
current ones less warm than the originals. I tend to run hot but with
the current Alta 2 jacket I need a base layer and a thin mid layer
(heavyweight base layer, Power Stretch, 100 weight fleece) as well to
stay warm in windy winter weather (temperatures below +5C).

The Alta II is lighter and not so warm. You can wear this jacket for much
of the year with just a simple base layer and not be too hot!

I'm just back from Snowdonia. One day I had driving rain and hail but was
pretty comfortable with a Lifa baselayer underneath the Alta II. Yesterday I
was out on a horseshoe ridge in terrific wind. For this I put a Mountain
vent shirt (cool side to the skin) on under the Alta. This was pretty
comfortable until I stopped working hard. A little colder and I would have
wanted the fleece layer next to my skin - this can cope with quite a lot of
cold weather.

The more I use the Alta the more impressed I am with it. With this and
Cascada trousers I was very comfortable in the rain with no condensation
inside the jacket.

I also have a Velez and tend to use this in other times of the year. For me
this is a good replacement for a light fleece/waterproof combination. I
took this to the Pyrenees in the summer and found it was very versitile and
coped with nasty, high weather, very well.

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...
http://www.ecotrend.org.uk/walking/

On 4/1/05 6:25 pm, in article [email hidden],

Chris Townsend said:

Paramo jackets were always intended as the shell layer but as they also
have some insulation they reduced the need for mid layers.

Having used both the original and current Paramo jackets I do find the
current ones less warm than the originals. I tend to run hot but with
the current Alta 2 jacket I need a base layer and a thin mid layer
(heavyweight base layer, Power Stretch, 100 weight fleece) as well to
stay warm in windy winter weather (temperatures below +5C).

The Alta II is lighter and not so warm. You can wear this jacket for much
of the year with just a simple base layer and not be too hot!

I'm just back from Snowdonia. One day I had driving rain and hail but was
pretty comfortable with a Lifa baselayer underneath the Alta II. Yesterday I
was out on a horseshoe ridge in terrific wind. For this I put a Mountain
vent shirt (cool side to the skin) on under the Alta. This was pretty
comfortable until I stopped working hard. A little colder and I would have
wanted the fleece layer next to my skin - this can cope with quite a lot of
cold weather.

The more I use the Alta the more impressed I am with it. With this and
Cascada trousers I was very comfortable in the rain with no condensation
inside the jacket.

I also have a Velez and tend to use this in other times of the year. For me
this is a good replacement for a light fleece/waterproof combination. I
took this to the Pyrenees in the summer and found it was very versitile and
coped with nasty, high weather, very well.

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...
http://www.ecotrend.org.uk/walking/

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:25:53 +0000, Chris Townsend
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I thought Paramo jackets were meant to act as both mid and waterproof
layer? Naturally I realise that people differ, and that that might not
be warm enough for some, but has there been an alteration in what I
thought was meant to be the default position i.e. that no mid layer is
needed?

It depends :-)

Ahaa... :-)

Quoted message said:

How warm you run and what the temperature is are the key factors.

Paramo jackets were always intended as the shell layer but as they also
have some insulation they reduced the need for mid layers.

Quoted message said:

Having used both the original and current Paramo jackets I do find the
current ones less warm than the originals.

Of course: I'd forgotten about that.

Quoted message said:

I tend to run hot but with
the current Alta 2 jacket I need a base layer and a thin mid layer
(heavyweight base layer, Power Stretch, 100 weight fleece) as well to
stay warm in windy winter weather (temperatures below +5C).

Intersting: thanks! :-)

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:00:31 GMT, Andy Howell
<andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I also have a Velez and tend to use this in other times of the year. For me
this is a good replacement for a light fleece/waterproof combination. I
took this to the Pyrenees in the summer and found it was very versitile and
coped with nasty, high weather, very well.

I'm still v. tempted by the Velez. I went as far as to try one on in
Ambleside last week :-)

(p.s. are you coming on the winter skills weekend? There are still 3
places left: it's 18-20th February, and we're just booking
accommodation now at the local bunkhouse. Be there ore be square...
;-)

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

On 4/1/05 8:08 pm, in article [email hidden],

Peewiglet said:

(p.s. are you coming on the winter skills weekend? There are still 3
places left: it's 18-20th February, and we're just booking
accommodation now at the local bunkhouse. Be there ore be square...
;-)

Have only just seen your email (and that from Judith) - I've been in Brazil
and then Snowdonia!

I hope to be there but I have to check a work commitment which would mean I
couldn't get away early enough. Should know by the end of the week.

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...
http://www.ecotrend.org.uk/walking/

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:36:36 GMT, Andy Howell

andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk said:

Quoted message said:

(p.s. are you coming on the winter skills weekend? There are still 3
places left: it's 18-20th February, and we're just booking
accommodation now at the local bunkhouse. Be there ore be square...
;-)

Have only just seen your email (and that from Judith) - I've been in Brazil
and then Snowdonia!

I hope to be there but I have to check a work commitment which would mean I
couldn't get away early enough. Should know by the end of the week.

Oh, go on!

</whisper>
Throw a sicky
<whisper>

Andy wrote [...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Have only just seen your email (and that from Judith) - I've been in Brazil
and then Snowdonia!

I dunno.... Globetrotter, eh! :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I hope to be there but I have to check a work commitment which would mean I
couldn't get away early enough. Should know by the end of the week.

Judith replied:

Quoted message said:

Oh, go on!

</whisper>
Throw a sicky
<whisper>

Yeah!!

Sicky, sicky, rah! rah! rah!!! :-)

Snowball, snowball, rah! rah! rah!!!! :-)))

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Chris Townsend said:

How warm you run and what the temperature is are the key factors.

Paramo jackets were always intended as the shell layer but as they also
have some insulation they reduced the need for mid layers.

Indeed the case. As one of the primary complainers of melting in Paramo
I should clarify my feelings a little more. What I /don't/ want one for
is a single year round waterproof shell, but on a day like today I'd be
no worse off wearing a Paramo jacket than the ME Microtherm jacket I
often use around this time of year.

One of the current thinner-than-original models would find uses if I had
one, but not to the extent of covering enough ground to justify the cost
to me bearing in mind the already fair sized pile of jacket alternatives
I have to play with. The "too hot" is in the context of a waterproof I
can use any time of year, not "too hot, period".

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/