Sugar alcohols

"Christa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, someone said in another thread that these can act just like real
carbs for some people....how does this work? What is the evidence to
support that?

Try googling "sugar alcohol diabetes" - or you could buy a blood glucose
meter and stab yourself, like we do : )

Quoted message said:

The package says that they contain some sugar alcohols
which have no effect on blood sugar. How would you know if you are one
of the people for whom they don't work?

Well, you could buy a bg meter....

It looks like about half the population of the UK have the ability to use at
least part of the sugar alcohols. For me, they might as well be pure sugar -
sometimes they work faster and higher on my bg levels than glucose does! In
compensation, I've never had gastric distress from them, but I now avoid
them like the plague because of what they do to my diabetes. Maybe if they
give you the trots you can eat them without damaging your carb count...

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.7/<6 Weight 95/79/72Kg
1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine
T2 DX 05/2004

Christa said:

Okay, someone said in another thread that these can act just like real
carbs for some people....how does this work? What is the evidence to
support that?

Diabetics have blood glucose meters, they can see this happening
directly. I don't, but others have reported seeing SAs act just like
carbs for them.

Quoted message said:

The package says that they contain some sugar alcohols which have no
effect on blood sugar. How would you know if you are one of the
people for whom they don't work?

In general, the only way to tell is to see how you react. Do you stop
losing weight? Are you hungrier than usual? Did you gain water
weight? Did the signs of ketosis go away? Do you suddenly want to
eat a whole bunch more of that food? Any of these could indicate that
you should avoid that particular sugar alcohol.

Quoted message said:

Okay, someone said in another thread that these can act just like

real

Quoted message said:

carbs for some people....how does this work?

Eat carbs, get the reactions in your body like you eat carbs. It's not
a
mystery.

Quoted message said:

What is the evidence to support that?

Just read some posts from people who do blood sugar tests, who track
their ketosis and so on.

Quoted message said:

The package says that they contain some sugar alcohols
which have no effect on blood sugar.

Now it is my turn to throw your own words back at you: Okay,
so the claims makes that claim. "What is the evidence to support
that?" There's big money in making claims like that.

Quoted message said:

How would you know if you are one of the people for whom
they don't work?

If you are on Atkins and if you followed the instructions on finding
your CCLL and if you read all of the versions 1972, 1993, 1999 and
2002, you will have increased your carb intake until you fell out of
ketosis for a week. That's quite a list of ifs. Your CCLL is 5-10
under the amount that kicks you out of ketosis so you are just
barely in ketosis. It's to keep the body from slipping into
starvation mode.

So once you know the exact carb grams to kick you out of
ketosis, do some experiments. Eat your carbs until you're 10
away from dropping out of ketosis and eat 20 grams of sugar
alcohol. Stay in ketosis and your body absorbs 50% or less.
Drop out of ketosis and your body absorbs 50% or more. Lather
rinse repeat systematically with different amounts and you can
get it down to where you know to the nearest 10% what
percentage your body absorbs.

But let's consider how true the claims are in general. The
claim is that everyone can deduct all sugar alcohols. Only a
few days reading ASDLC will show that that wide a claim is a
lie. Some people absorb none, some absorb some, and some
absorb all carbs from sugar alcohol. The labels don't say that
so the labels lie.

Which group do you *want* to be in? I bet you want to be in
the group that absorbs none. Which group are you *actually*
in? There is literally no way to tell until you've conducted some
experiments like I described above or used a blood glucose
meter to track your reaction or similar. Okay now, not taking
your desires into account but being objective about it, what
percentage of the sugar alcohol grams should you count until
you do know for certain? I'm conservative enough that I
counted 100% until I found out for certain.

I agree about getting a meter and doing your own testing. Walmart's Ultima
is about $9 and a box of 50 strips is about $22.

I found the SA's (sugar alcohols) very helpful for getting over sugar
cravings when I began LCing. Without them (mostly glycerine/glycerol, which
is not technically a 'sugar alcohol', being absorbed differently in most
people) I might never have made the shift. Haven't needed tham in a while,
except very occasionally when I run out of energy while shopping; at those
times I take a SA candy (like Hershey's sugar-free) instead of a sugar
candy. It gives me a gentle lift without an energy spike.

Which is not to endorse what some manufacturer say about them, or what kind
of products they're putting them in.

The GI/Gl values of the various sugar alcohols come from tests on a lot of
people, often specifying how many of them were diabetic and which kind of
diabetes. A few diabetics who post here and on diabetic groups were
exceptions, and they do a lot of posting about it, so the number of posts
pro and con doesn't reflect the actual odds.

These tests might have ceased at 2 hours after eating, so all they say is
that the carbs in the SA's are slower than that. So the carbs and calories
are still there, I do get them eventually, just usually slow enough to
prevent a BG spike or to keep from getting bumped out of ketosis. There is
a lot of difference in different SA's, see below.

Also a lot of posters had digestive upsets from the SA's, but if the
weight-conscious population in general had that much trouble, the
manufacturers would have no repeat sales. 🙂

Here are some leads to balanced info sources:

Skinny
--
http://www.lowcarb.ca/tips/tips010.html
balanced article on sugar alcohols

http://www.mendosa.com/netcarbs.htm
Dr. Atkins and the vendors of low-carb products are correct that not only
fiber but also glycerin and polydextrose have little or no effect on blood
glucose. The story with sugar alcohols, however, is different. One of the
most commonly used sugar alcohols, maltitol and its syrups, does have a
considerable effect on blood glucose. Two sugar alcohols, erythritol and
mannitol, have no effect, and four others have some effect.

Calorie comparison

4.3 calories per gram glycerol/glycerine
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=calories+per+gram+of+glycerine&btnG=Search

4.0 calories per gram white sugar
http://www.google.com/search?q=calories+per+gram+of+white+sugar&sourceid=opera&num=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

3.0 calories per gram hydrogenated starch hydrolysates
2.6 calories per gram sorbitol
2.4 calories per gram xylitol
2.1 calories per gram maltitol
2.0 calories per gram isomalt
2.0 calories per gram lactitol
1.6 calories per gram mannitol
0.2 calories per gram erythritol
http://www.psha-inc.com/guai-support/sf/FAQ-HypoglycemiaAndLow-carbDieting.htms

Glycemic Load (ie, effect on BG level soon after eating)

18 for Honey (Canada)[GR]
11 for Maltose[GR]
10 for Glucose/Dextrose/normal sugar[GR]
7 for 99% Malitol product[GR]
5 for Lactose[GR]
2 for Fructose[GR]
1 for Xylitol[GR]

0 for Glycerol/Gylcerine[M]
0 for Polydextrose[M]

Sources:
[GR] GI /GL tables in THE NEW GLUCOSE REVOLUTION, p. 319
[M] http://www.mendosa.com/netcarbs.htm

: I don't eat chocolate with maltitol in it mainly because it isn't very
good.
: I stick to ZCarb for chocolate, they only use inulin, erythritol and
Splenda
: and their stuff tastes great. I don't like the meal bars with chocolate
on
: them, in fact the only bars I eat are Keto Oatmeal Raisin bars for
breakfast
: and occasionally a Keto Caramel Nut Crunch bar, neither has that yucky
: chocolate coating and they have only 2 grams of maltitol, also 10 grams of
: glycerine, I count them as 14 net carbs.

I got these at Sam's: Labrada Carb Watchers Gold, caramel almond fudge.
"only 4 g net impact carbs per bar". It has maltitol syrup and sucralose in
it. The weird thing is, each bar has 4 gm sugar in it and the rest is sugar
alcohols and fiber (as far as net carbs go).
Where do you get the ZCarb stuff?

Pat in TX

www.zcarbbar.com You can order from them on the website and they also list
stores where it is available. WalMart carries some of the varieties but I
don't like to shop at WalMart so I mostly order from them.

In news:[email hidden],
Pat <[email hidden]> stated
|| I don't eat chocolate with maltitol in it mainly because it isn't
|| very good. I stick to ZCarb for chocolate, they only use inulin,
|| erythritol and Splenda and their stuff tastes great. I don't like
|| the meal bars with chocolate on them, in fact the only bars I eat
|| are Keto Oatmeal Raisin bars for breakfast and occasionally a Keto
|| Caramel Nut Crunch bar, neither has that yucky chocolate coating and
|| they have only 2 grams of maltitol, also 10 grams of glycerine, I
|| count them as 14 net carbs.
|
| I got these at Sam's: Labrada Carb Watchers Gold, caramel almond
| fudge. "only 4 g net impact carbs per bar". It has maltitol syrup and
| sucralose in it. The weird thing is, each bar has 4 gm sugar in it
| and the rest is sugar alcohols and fiber (as far as net carbs go).
| Where do you get the ZCarb stuff?
|
| Pat in TX

: www.zcarbbar.com You can order from them on the website and they also
list
: stores where it is available. WalMart carries some of the varieties but I
: don't like to shop at WalMart so I mostly order from them.

I know--it's a beating to shop at Wal_Mart. I do it for the Mission Low-Carb
tortillas usually, but today I found them at Albertson's (and I don't care
if they cost a bit extra!).

Pat in TX

JC Der Koenig said:

Is this why you're still 300 pounds?

Kicking someone when they are down services no purpose. Why is it so
difficult for people in this NG to provide help instead of ridicule?

Did you take that one personally?

--
Now [censored]. You cannot possibly be this stupid and remember to
breathe. You must be trolling. -- Carmen

"Bunky42" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:OrIDd.52092$Cl3.23470@fed1read03...

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

Is this why you're still 300 pounds?

Kicking someone when they are down services no purpose. Why is it so
difficult for people in this NG to provide help instead of ridicule?

You know damn well I am not at 300 pounds. And I am being honest about
counting SA and glycerine carbs. You might have a point if I had said that
I believe the 1 net carb claimed on the label.

In news:[email hidden],
JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
| Is this why you're still 300 pounds?
|
|

Yes, but you are damn well still not under 200 pounds yet, and you claim to
not be interested in losing weight. So, do you really believe that your
attitude about sugar alcohols is the best thing for a person that wants to
lose their excess flab? Really? Try to deal with the truth here.

--

Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

--
"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You know damn well I am not at 300 pounds. And I am being honest about
counting SA and glycerine carbs. You might have a point if I had said
that
I believe the 1 net carb claimed on the label.

In news:[email hidden],
JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
| Is this why you're still 300 pounds?
|
|

My attitude is count them, what's wrong with that?

In news:[email hidden],
JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
| Yes, but you are damn well still not under 200 pounds yet, and you
| claim to not be interested in losing weight. So, do you really
| believe that your attitude about sugar alcohols is the best thing for
| a person that wants to lose their excess flab? Really? Try to deal
| with the truth here.
|
| --
|
| Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW
|
|| You know damn well I am not at 300 pounds. And I am being honest
|| about counting SA and glycerine carbs. You might have a point if I
|| had said that
|| I believe the 1 net carb claimed on the label.
||
|| In news:[email hidden],
|| JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
||| Is this why you're still 300 pounds?

JC Der Koenig said:

Did you take that one personally?

I'm not down. I'm extremely happy with my life/lifestyle. I was
commenting on your out look of others

Kicking someone when they are down services no purpose. Why is it so
difficult for (JC) in this NG to provide help instead of ridicule?

JC Der Koenig said:

Yes, but you are damn well still not under 200 pounds yet, and you claim to
not be interested in losing weight. So, do you really believe that your
attitude about sugar alcohols is the best thing for a person that wants to
lose their excess flab? Really? Try to deal with the truth here.

Kicking someone when they are down services no purpose. Why is it so
difficult for JC in this NG to provide help instead of ridicule?

"Eat carbs, get the reactions in your body like you eat carbs. It's not
a mystery."

Well to start with, this is simply not true. Just about everyone
agrees that SA's
don't affect the body in the way that a carb like sugar does. Then
there has been lots
of discussion of individual reactions to SA's varying widely, as do the
side effects.
And there seems to be general agreement that the blood glucose response
varies greatly even
between different SA's. So, I don't see how you can be dismissive of a
legitimate question.

"Just read some posts from people who do blood sugar tests, who track
their ketosis and so on."

That's no basis for concluding anything. It's obvious that just about
all who have posted here
who are doing blood glucose tests are diabetic. I don't know about
you, but all the non-diabetics
I know don't monitor their blood glucose. So, taking anecdotal
newsgroup reports from some diabetics and
drawing conclusions of how it will affect normal subjects makes no
sense.

As far as ketosis, the most test strips will tell you is a broad range
which depends on so many things,
it's virtually impossible for an individual to conclude much of
anything.

"Now it is my turn to throw your own words back at you: Okay,
so the claims makes that claim. "What is the evidence to support
that?" There's big money in making claims like that"

There have been scientific studies done of the blood glucose response
of SA's. As far as manufacturers,
Atkins Advantage bars were tested at Ohio State University and found to
raise BG by only a small amount, consistent
with the labeling.

"Only a few days reading ASDLC will show that that wide a claim is a
lie"

It continually amazes me that people will draw sweeping conclusions
based on a few days of newsgroup posts. The first problem
is that the BG reports, as I pointed out, are from diabetics, not
normal subjects. The other reports typically are "I ate 3 bars that
have SAs this week and I stalled!" And this proves what? As anyone
with experience knows, people stall for all kinds of
reasons, many of them unknown. But, the SA police on here quickly take
a report of stalling and if there is a hint of a SA being
around, jump to the unsupported conclusion that it caused the stall.
And then there is the problem of who do you expect to hear
from on a newsgroup? People who have some products with SAs and have
no issues or those that stalled for whatever reason
and then come to raise issues and along the way mention what they have
been eating. In other words, you have no legitimate
sample base here to conclude anything, much else call others liars.

I've used products containing SA's in moderation and have had no
problems, other than some gastric symptoms and that was only
from eating quite a bit of Turkey Hill ice cream at one time.

Why can't you understand the difference between wanting to lose weight and
not caring if you lose weight?

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My attitude is count them, what's wrong with that?

In news:[email hidden],
JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
| Yes, but you are damn well still not under 200 pounds yet, and you
| claim to not be interested in losing weight. So, do you really
| believe that your attitude about sugar alcohols is the best thing for
| a person that wants to lose their excess flab? Really? Try to deal
| with the truth here.
|
| --
|
| Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW
|
|| You know damn well I am not at 300 pounds. And I am being honest
|| about counting SA and glycerine carbs. You might have a point if I
|| had said that
|| I believe the 1 net carb claimed on the label.
||
|| In news:[email hidden],
|| JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
||| Is this why you're still 300 pounds?

I do understand that but that is not the subject under discussion. The
subject was how do you count the carbs of sugar alcohols. Now you may
believe that SAs have other drawbacks, fine, discuss them, but to say that
counting them is in any way related to a desire to lose weight is a non
sequiter.

In news:[email hidden],
JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
| Why can't you understand the difference between wanting to lose
| weight and not caring if you lose weight?
|
|

Do you really believe that sugar alcohols help you lose weight?

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I do understand that but that is not the subject under discussion. The
subject was how do you count the carbs of sugar alcohols. Now you may
believe that SAs have other drawbacks, fine, discuss them, but to say that
counting them is in any way related to a desire to lose weight is a non
sequiter.

In news:[email hidden],
JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
| Why can't you understand the difference between wanting to lose
| weight and not caring if you lose weight?
|
|

Yes, because they keep me from eating regular sugar. I make no bones about
it, I am lazy, not highly motivated to lose weight, unwilling to go around
hungry. Actually, I am a shining example of how limiting carbs all by
itself, without "dieting", without exercise, can result in weight loss. I'm
not saying what I do is for everyone, that's your territory, what I say is
that people have to satisfy their own values and goals and find what works
for them. I am very happy with where I am in life, I am retired and can sit
around playing on my computer all day, it's a second childhood but without
parents telling me what to do. I have no desire to live up to your
standards.

You remind me a lot of my ex-husband. One of the reasons I read your posts
is that they remind me of how happy I am not living with him anymore.

In news:[email hidden],
JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
| Do you really believe that sugar alcohols help you lose weight?
|
|
| "FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
| news:[email hidden]...
|| I do understand that but that is not the subject under discussion.
|| The subject was how do you count the carbs of sugar alcohols. Now
|| you may believe that SAs have other drawbacks, fine, discuss them,
|| but to say that counting them is in any way related to a desire to
|| lose weight is a non sequiter.
||
||
|| In news:[email hidden],
|| JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
||| Why can't you understand the difference between wanting to lose
||| weight and not caring if you lose weight?