Real Election Reform

Absolutely! The fact that the US doesn't have *any* secure balloting
systems proves that our voting system is corrupt. It's not a matter of *if*
the vote will be corrupted, but *when* and *by whom*. You can take that to
mean "real democracy is dead." If the vote can be stolen, you might as well
let a corrupt dictatorial junta take power by judicial coup and steal two
consecutive elections. Oh yeah...that has already happened.

Our voting systems are *designed* to be corrupted by any unscrupulous person
who wishes to do so, with little or no recourse offered. Poll workers have
always been at liberty to toss out ballots they didn't want to count,
calling them "spoiled." Electronic machines have no security whatsoever, as
has been proven repeatedly. A chimpanzee was able to sucessfully hack a
Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.

Rocketman

"D Flint" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What do you think about this and have you seen this popular site before?

This was taken from a web site
http://www.afvr.org

How can we safeguard the integrity of each vote?
Today we have technology that protects our financial systems, military
weapon systems and national intelligent organizations. These proven
systems
can be combined in a way to issue serialized equipment to authorize
personnel for the dates and hours needed. Each would have their own level
of
clearance to perform the tasks they are responsible for. Each action would
be recorded and verified with a higher levels of network authority and
again, only available during the hours and dates needed. Ballots would
only
be printed after the voter has cast their vote but before they leave the
booth. If the voter made a mistake he could put the printed ballot into
the
booth's scanner for correction. All ballots scanned at the booth would go
into a shredder and the voter could then correct his ballot on the screen
and reprint his ballots. Once the voter accepts the printed ballot he
submits his vote on the screen and takes the two ballots to the
depository.
So two computer generated, serialized and scanner perfect receipts of the
completed ballot are printed.* One for the voter and one for the public
record. This would eliminate all the extra ballots that could be used for
unauthorized voting as well as any question of voter intent. Each piece
of
equipment involved in the issuing of the receipt would be linked to the
serial# of that ballot and an electronic document would be generated that
exactly matched the two printed receipts. So the voter themselves has
validate the printed ballots, keeping one for themselves, while the other
electronic time-stamped document is deposited into an optical scanner used
as a secure depository. This second scanned count which should always
match
the electronic count. This paper ballot could also be used for recounts if
needed. The voter could use the receipt to inquire about their vote in the
future. The stuffing of the ballot box or "finding ballots" would be
eliminated. With this system, if you find a ballot, you have to find the
voter that cast that ballot too. This is not so in any of the current
systems in place today nor have we ever heard such a system ever proposed.
http://www.afvr.org

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:52:33 GMT
"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote:
A chimpanzee was able to

Quoted message said:

sucessfully hack a Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.

Rocketman

But, you know, it's gonna be alright.

"Eric Jorgensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20050111212758.4e256529@wafer...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:52:33 GMT
"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote:
A chimpanzee was able to

Quoted message said:

sucessfully hack a Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.

Rocketman

But, you know, it's gonna be alright.

I keep telling myself "there's only so much damage that a president can do
in four years." That was *before* Bush got re-selected.

Arrrgh.

Rocketman

"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:ac3Fd.2129$EG1.864@attbi_s53...

Quoted message said:

"Eric Jorgensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20050111212758.4e256529@wafer...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:52:33 GMT
"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote:
A chimpanzee was able to

Quoted message said:

sucessfully hack a Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.

Rocketman

But, you know, it's gonna be alright.

I keep telling myself "there's only so much damage that a president can do
in four years." That was *before* Bush got re-selected.

Arrrgh.

Rocketman

He won, get over it already

Mark Leuck demonstrated poor use of indefinite pronouns and end

punctuation when he said:

He won, get over it already

Making up for Edward Dolan Tom?

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Leuck demonstrated poor use of indefinite pronouns and end

punctuation when he said:

He won, get over it already

Mark Leuck demonstrated poor use of commas (the lack thereof) when he
top posted:

Quoted message said:

Making up for Edward Dolan Tom?

"Eric Jorgensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20050111212758.4e256529@wafer...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:52:33 GMT
"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote:
A chimpanzee was able to

Quoted message said:

sucessfully hack a Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.

Rocketman

But, you know, it's gonna be alright.

Right. All Rocketman needs is a liberal minded
chimpanzee to handle this little voting problem he seems to have.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:34:12 -0600

skip said:

"Eric Jorgensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20050111212758.4e256529@wafer...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:52:33 GMT
"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote:
A chimpanzee was able to

Quoted message said:

sucessfully hack a Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.

Rocketman

But, you know, it's gonna be alright.

Right. All Rocketman needs is a liberal minded
chimpanzee to handle this little voting problem he seems to have.

I'm sorry, i botched my elton john reference.

We got problems, but usenet isn't the place to solve 'em.

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Making up for Edward Dolan Tom?

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Leuck demonstrated poor use of indefinite pronouns and end

punctuation when he said:

He won, get over it already

Mr. Sherman can never make up for me because he is polite and a gentleman. I
am neither.

I can't be bothered anymore with idiots like you who do not post correctly.
The main problem is that your manners are as screwed up as your writing.
Politeness and gentlemanly behavior is wasted on you. That is because you
are a barbarian. You know better but still you persist in your abominations.
You are beneath contempt. I disdain you, you unmitigated ignorant slob!

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

No Rocketman needs some time off at this place

http://www.bocanews.com/index.php?src=news&prid=10127&category=Local%20News%20%20

Tom Sherman claims it worked wonders

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Eric Jorgensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20050111212758.4e256529@wafer...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:52:33 GMT
"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote:
A chimpanzee was able to

Quoted message said:

sucessfully hack a Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.

Rocketman

But, you know, it's gonna be alright.

Right. All Rocketman needs is a liberal minded
chimpanzee to handle this little voting problem he seems to have.

"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:5a1Fd.1709$yY6.171@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

Absolutely! The fact that the US doesn't have *any* secure balloting
systems proves that our voting system is corrupt. It's not a matter of
*if* the vote will be corrupted, but *when* and *by whom*. You can take
that to mean "real democracy is dead." If the vote can be stolen, you
might as well let a corrupt dictatorial junta take power by judicial coup
and steal two consecutive elections. Oh yeah...that has already happened.

Our voting systems are *designed* to be corrupted by any unscrupulous
person who wishes to do so, with little or no recourse offered. Poll
workers have always been at liberty to toss out ballots they didn't want
to count, calling them "spoiled." Electronic machines have no security
whatsoever, as has been proven repeatedly. A chimpanzee was able to
sucessfully hack a Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.

Rocketman

"D Flint" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What do you think about this and have you seen this popular site before?

This was taken from a web site
http://www.afvr.org

How can we safeguard the integrity of each vote?
Today we have technology that protects our financial systems, military
weapon systems and national intelligent organizations. These proven
systems
can be combined in a way to issue serialized equipment to authorize
personnel for the dates and hours needed. Each would have their own level
of
clearance to perform the tasks they are responsible for. Each action
would
be recorded and verified with a higher levels of network authority and
again, only available during the hours and dates needed. Ballots would
only
be printed after the voter has cast their vote but before they leave the
booth. If the voter made a mistake he could put the printed ballot into
the
booth's scanner for correction. All ballots scanned at the booth would go
into a shredder and the voter could then correct his ballot on the screen
and reprint his ballots. Once the voter accepts the printed ballot he
submits his vote on the screen and takes the two ballots to the
depository.
So two computer generated, serialized and scanner perfect receipts of the
completed ballot are printed.* One for the voter and one for the public
record. This would eliminate all the extra ballots that could be used for
unauthorized voting as well as any question of voter intent. Each piece
of
equipment involved in the issuing of the receipt would be linked to the
serial# of that ballot and an electronic document would be generated that
exactly matched the two printed receipts. So the voter themselves has
validate the printed ballots, keeping one for themselves, while the other
electronic time-stamped document is deposited into an optical scanner
used
as a secure depository. This second scanned count which should always
match
the electronic count. This paper ballot could also be used for recounts
if
needed. The voter could use the receipt to inquire about their vote in
the
future. The stuffing of the ballot box or "finding ballots" would be
eliminated. With this system, if you find a ballot, you have to find the
voter that cast that ballot too. This is not so in any of the current
systems in place today nor have we ever heard such a system ever
proposed.
http://www.afvr.org

All of the above was posted no doubt for the delectation of Mr. Tom Sherman
who continues to believe that elections are stolen in this country. Without
getting into the nuts and bolts of this post, let me say that those who
cannot figure out how to vote correctly are too stupid to be voting in the
first place. Unfortunately for liberals like Mr. Sherman and Rocketman most
of these type voters just happen to be Democrats. Too bad for them, but that
is what comes of being ignorant and stupid. Why should the rest of us bend
over backwards to accommodate the most stupid among us.

Frankly, I am relieved whenever I hear that almost 50% of the electorate
does not vote. Thank God for that! The only folks I want voting are those
who have bothered to inform themselves on the issues and have at least
enough brains to figure out how to cast a vote correctly.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:ac3Fd.2129$EG1.864@attbi_s53...

Quoted message said:

"Eric Jorgensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20050111212758.4e256529@wafer...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:52:33 GMT
"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote:
A chimpanzee was able to
> sucessfully hack a Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.
>
> Rocketman

But, you know, it's gonna be alright.

I keep telling myself "there's only so much damage that a president can
do
in four years." That was *before* Bush got re-selected.

Arrrgh.

Rocketman

He won, get over it already

Mission Accomplished.

R

Skip:

Good comeback. I may be really naive, but it's my impression that VPNs or
dedicated networks aren't very vulnerable to hacking no mater how vulnerable
the software happens to be. That said, a 12-year-old could probably come up
with a better election system. But it turns out that the only really
irrefutable evidence of fraud took place in King County, WA where there were
a few thousand more votes than registered voters in the most heavily
Democratic county in the state, and where the Democratic candidate won by
under 200 votes statewide. I don't care what your party happens to be, if
you care about valid elections this would be the first case study you'd
bring up. Nasty, nasty, nasty. (Did I say "nasty?"😉 And it appears that
there's more than enough evidence to hold another election, so it's not over
yet....

Me, I'm getting ready to support my HS marching contingent in the Inaugural
next week. They've been in nearly every Inaugural since Kennedy's, and a
lot of them before that. I doubt that many of those kids care very much who
the heck they're inaugurating. I sure didn't when I marched in LBJ's parade
in 1964. The thing is, to BE THERE. When you're not there, when you've
taken a powder, you're not even a footnote in history. You're an
afterthought.

And here's a little wisdom from Victor Davis Hanson about short term versus
long term perspective:

" But never mind all this: The long-term prospects are still as bright as
things seem gloomy in the short-term — but only if we emulate our
grandfathers and press on with the third Middle East election in the last
six months. "

Let's see, that's three more than zero isn't it?

--
--Scott
"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Eric Jorgensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20050111212758.4e256529@wafer...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:52:33 GMT
"Rocketman" <[email hidden]> wrote:
A chimpanzee was able to

Quoted message said:

sucessfully hack a Diebold voting machine. That's how bad it is.

Rocketman

But, you know, it's gonna be alright.

Right. All Rocketman needs is a liberal minded
chimpanzee to handle this little voting problem he seems to have.

"Freewheeling" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Skip:

Good comeback. I may be really naive, but it's my impression that VPNs or
dedicated networks aren't very vulnerable to hacking no mater how
vulnerable the software happens to be. That said, a 12-year-old could
probably come up with a better election system. But it turns out that the
only really irrefutable evidence of fraud took place in King County, WA
where there were a few thousand more votes than registered voters in the
most heavily Democratic county in the state, and where the Democratic
candidate won by under 200 votes statewide. I don't care what your party
happens to be, if you care about valid elections this would be the first
case study you'd bring up. Nasty, nasty, nasty. (Did I say "nasty?"😉
And it appears that there's more than enough evidence to hold another
election, so it's not over yet....

Me, I'm getting ready to support my HS marching contingent in the
Inaugural next week. They've been in nearly every Inaugural since
Kennedy's, and a lot of them before that. I doubt that many of those kids
care very much who the heck they're inaugurating. I sure didn't when I
marched in LBJ's parade in 1964. The thing is, to BE THERE. When you're
not there, when you've taken a powder, you're not even a footnote in
history. You're an afterthought.

And here's a little wisdom from Victor Davis Hanson about short term
versus long term perspective:

" But never mind all this: The long-term prospects are still as bright as
things seem gloomy in the short-term - but only if we emulate our
grandfathers and press on with the third Middle East election in the last
six months. "

Let's see, that's three more than zero isn't it?

--
--Scott

Over the years I've lost interest in Super Bowls and especially in those
half-time freak shows they put on. I yearn for the days when the half-time
shows featured marching bands such as the Florida A&M Rattlers Marching 100.
Man could those guys put on a show.

If anyone is interested in a super bowl they might want to look towards
Foxboro this weekend.

The ultimate voter intimidation has to be voter assassination. Tremendous
courage is required just to show up at the polls. Voting under the threat
of death is beyond my imagination. It is truly "pressing on" in the
defiance of terror. I salute every voter and every vote cast in the Middle
East along with every person who provides security to protect those voters.

It's discouraging to say the least, but unlike some others I know, I'm
hoping for the best.

skip

skip said:

...
It's discouraging to say the least, but unlike some others I know, I'm
hoping for the best.

Everyone is hoping for the best. There is however, severe disagreement
over what the "best" is.

The English language can be a tricky thing.

--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

...
It's discouraging to say the least, but unlike some others I know, I'm
hoping for the best.

Everyone is hoping for the best. There is however, severe disagreement
over what the "best" is.

The English language can be a tricky thing.

--
Tom Sherman

I suppose it could be said that in the minds of some the indiscriminate,
merciless large scale slaughter of those attempting to vote would be "for
the best".

skip

The American election bearing the strongest resemblance to 2004 was the one
that pitted George B. McClellan, a man with military credentials but
questionable resolve, who was backed by the peace wing of the Democratic
Party called, at the time, "Copperheads," against Abe Lincoln and the newly
formed Republican Party. There are a couple of provocative ironies
suggested by this comparison:

1. The main copperhead counties in Ohio that, in 1864, voter for George B.
McClellan voted for George W. Bush in 2004.

2. The election would almost certainly have been won by McClellan had it not
been for the intervention of a fellow with the surname "Sherman" who managed
a total war demonstration project in Atlanta that convinced people the war
was closer to conclusion than they thought.

The strategy employed by the South, to sap the will of the North to fight,
is exactly the same as the strategy employed by the "insurgents" in Iraq.
Otherwise the North was, and the US is now, pretty much invincable. What
was "best" for the Copperheads was a truce with the South and a continuation
of slavery. I think history demonstrates that even with the horror of the
Reconstruction that would not have been best in any realistic sense.

As I recall there were only two Democratic Presidents elected to office
between Lincoln and FDR, which is to say that there's a price for being on
the wrong side of history.

--
--Scott
"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

...
It's discouraging to say the least, but unlike some others I know, I'm
hoping for the best.

Everyone is hoping for the best. There is however, severe disagreement
over what the "best" is.

The English language can be a tricky thing.

--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island

Edward Dolan said:

... The g.d. French, always a nation of [censored], were in bed with Sadaam. Anyone here
still think the French are on our side?

Here is a useful article for dealing with things French:
<http://snipurl.com/c1x9>.

--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island