Cycling Awards

Simon Mason <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Interesting to read in the CTC Cycle Digest that our council's award was for increasing the number
: of cyclists at the same time as reducing the casualty figures. This seems to run counter to the
: claim that *all* council led cycling facilities are at best useless and at worst dangerous.

York has done the same.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
Lord Lester

Simon Mason deftly scribbled:

Quoted message said:

Interesting to read in the CTC Cycle Digest that our council's award was for increasing the number
of cyclists at the same time as reducing the casualty figures.

Good for them .. 😉

Quoted message said:

This seems to run counter to the claim that *all* council led cycling facilities are at best
useless and at worst dangerous.

Heheheh, generalisations are *never* completely right ..

Quoted message said:

There were people on this NG a few years ago that ranted 'till they were blue in the face saying
that since Milton Keynes' experiment was rubbish then that was that; no cycling schemes can ever
be any good.

I dunno what the MK experiment was, but even if it failed it deserved some merit, perhaps, for at
least trying something. Which has to be better than nothing, surely.

Quoted message said:

To those people, I don't suppose an apology is now due? ;-)
ctc.org.ukCycleDigestSummer36.pdfOpen ↗

Good read, thanks. I might even join the CTC .. 😉

--
Digweed

Not me said:

I dunno what the MK experiment was, but even if it failed it deserved some merit, perhaps, for at
least trying something.

I never saw any documentation on exactly what it was, but I suppose it might have something to do
with the large number of cyclepaths which allow you to get to most places in MK without having to
cycle on or even cross a road.

I would ask exactly why this is considered a failure?

--
Jim Price

jimprice.dsl.pipex.comjimprice.dsl.pipex.comOpen ↗

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.

"Not me, someone else" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heheheh, generalisations are *never* completely right ..

What, none of them?

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

Just zis Guy, you know? deftly scribbled:

Quoted message said:

"Not me, someone else" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heheheh, generalisations are *never* completely right ..

What, none of them?

You see my point then 🙂

--
Digweed

Jim Price deftly scribbled:

Quoted message said:

Not me said:

I dunno what the MK experiment was, but even if it failed it deserved some merit, perhaps, for at
least trying something.

I never saw any documentation on exactly what it was, but I suppose it might have something to do
with the large number of cyclepaths which allow you to get to most places in MK without having to
cycle on or even cross a road.

Maybe the good folk of MK simply didn't like bicycles ..

Quoted message said:

I would ask exactly why this is considered a failure?

I remember driving through MK one night. Bleak and desolate would sum it up pretty well, so perhaps
if the same were true of the cycle ways and paths then maybe they were either unsafe or not actually
leading anywhere.

IIRC, as you now seem to have jogged my memory, the paths went between and around housing areas, or
suburbs, but not from suburb to shopping centre, or Train Station etc. You could visit loads of
people, but not get anything, or very little, constructive done by using them. I may be wrong on
this though .. 😉

--
Digweed

[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments] Simon Mason wrote in uk.rec.cycling:
about: Cycling Awards

Quoted message said:

Interesting to read in the CTC Cycle Digest that our council's award was for increasing the number
of cyclists at the same time as reducing the casualty figures. This seems to run counter to the
claim that *all* council led cycling facilities are at best useless and at worst dangerous.

What it means is that Hull CC employs transport engineers who [know better what they are doing |
have more pro-cycling councillors | are less clueless | have more vociferous intelligent local cycle
campaigners] than those employed by most LAs in the UK.

Perhaps they can generate some nice consultancy income by going round with the Big Re-education
Stick to the less clueful LAs?

Also, the fact that they can easily pop over the North Sea to Rotterdam to see How Things Should Be
Done might just have something to do with it! :-)

Congratulations, nonetheless..

--
David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] |
web.viewport.co.ukweb.viewport.co.ukOpen ↗ | Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

begin Once upon a time, there was a badly-broken newsreader program...

In "]news:[email hidden], Jim Price <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

I would ask exactly why this is considered a failure?

Visit the two links from lesberries.co.ukinfra.htmlOpen ↗

Tony

--
raven-family.comraven-family.comOpen ↗

"All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer

Digweed writted:

Quoted message said:

I remember driving through MK one night. Bleak and desolate would sum it up pretty well, so
perhaps if the same were true of the cycle ways and paths then maybe they were either unsafe or
not actually leading anywhere.

My chum Ian, who works there, has frequently to rotate the tyres on his van from side to side, as
the left side tyres wear much faster because of all the roundabouts...

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
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"David Marsh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Also, the fact that they can easily pop over the North Sea to Rotterdam to see How Things Should
Be Done might just have something to do with it! :-)

Oh no, not you again with your tedious anti-MS Outlook "virus" ;-)

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

"Jim Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not me, someone else wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I dunno what the MK experiment was, but even if it failed it deserved

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

merit, perhaps, for at least trying something.

Quoted message said:

I would ask exactly why this is considered a failure?

The reasons I know of are:

1. Cycleways are less safe than roads, introducing all sorts of dangers like surface problems,
debris, conflict with pedestrians, underpasses which are ideal ambush points etc.

2. The design of the city of M-K is such that it is much less dense than the generality of cities in
the UK, making the average utility journey longer.

3. The road layout encourages fast traffic and includes many roundabouts, which are particularly
dangerous for cyclists.

And not forgetting 4: it's a horrible place.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

Not me said:

I remember driving through MK one night. Bleak and desolate would sum it up pretty well, so
perhaps if the same were true of the cycle ways and paths then maybe they were either unsafe or
not actually leading anywhere.

IIRC, as you now seem to have jogged my memory, the paths went between and around housing areas,
or suburbs, but not from suburb to shopping centre, or Train Station etc.

My limited experience of MK is that the routes _do_ go to the Railway Station and Shopping Centre,
although I have found their numbering rather difficult to follow.

It is certainly possible to go from the Station to the MK Bowl without even crossing a road, a
pleasant route I do several times a year. It's brilliant as I can even take my youngest to the
Bowl's circuit to go cycle racing.

The hard bit is the train journey, but then when isn't it.

John B

Tony Raven said:

In "]news:[email hidden], Jim Price <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

I would ask exactly why this is considered a failure?

Visit the two links from lesberries.co.ukinfra.htmlOpen ↗

Fascinating, and not a little disconcerting - especially (in a cycling awards thread):

"For the past two years it has not been possible to declare a winner in the engineering category of
the National Cycling Awards."

Sadly, there seems to be little being proposed as solutions to the many problems. So, rather than
just saying that Hull and Rotterdam are wonderful, can anyone say what exactly it is that makes
them so? (I've not been to either, but I have been to MK, and frankly thought it was a lot better
than London!).

--
Jim Price

jimprice.dsl.pipex.comjimprice.dsl.pipex.comOpen ↗

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.

Jim Price <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Sadly, there seems to be little being proposed as solutions to the many problems. So, rather than
just saying that Hull and Rotterdam are wonderful, can anyone say what exactly it is that makes
them so? (I've not been to either, but I have been to MK, and frankly thought it was a lot better
than London!).

I asked our council cycling officer and he said the CTC committee were particularly impressed by
the bravery of the council in converting dual carriageways into roads like this.

btinternet.combrickq.jpgOpen ↗

Simon

Simon Mason said:

I asked our council cycling officer and he said the CTC committee were particularly impressed by
the bravery of the council in converting dual carriageways into roads like this.

btinternet.combrickq.jpgOpen ↗

That's pretty good. Far better than the few similar ones in Greenwich which have no hashed zone
between the cycle lane and the parked cars.
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