Re: I don't like Starbucks

Marge said:

wow, that's just how I feel at *$s and I'm 40. Went to school in
Berkeley, which is a heavy coffee drinking place. I know Peets is
owned by *$s now. I'm just not sure what purpose all the lingo serves
(other than to make you feel silly about ordering a cup of coffee). It
seems to me my like or dislike of the coffee itself gets mixed up with
my reaction to the atmosphere they create.

I was in Starbucks yesterday. It wasn't my idea, but was the place my wife
wanted to meet me. I am too stubborn to ask for a "tall" coffee, but it's
been a while since they tried to correct me when I ask for a small. Then I
tried to find a place to sit. There were two tables that had open notebooks
and texts and a jacket on the chair. There was one empty table with no
chairs, and three adjacent table occupied, each with two empty chairs and
another with one. I asked politely at each table if I could take one of
their chairs and was told at all three tables that they were occupied, each
of them pointing and saying their friends were in the line for coffee.
Luckily someone five tables away signaled to me that I could take their
extra chair. So I sat down and had my overpriced coffee and cinnamon roll.

About a minute before my wife arrived, the two people at one table got up
and left. Those two extra chairs at their table were still empty. The
[censored] had lied to me, and only one person came to sit in one of the two
empty seats at the one next to that. The guy on the other side never did
have any human in it. It's occupant used it for a coat rack, pulled out his
laptop and cell phone and started making long, loud phone calls. I was
having a hard time hearing my wife because he was speaking so loud.

sf <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Men who shout into their cell phones when they want people
around them to notice how important they are is a pet peeve
of mine.

And women who shout into their cell phones to get their
husbands/boyfriends to follow orders are a pet peeve of mine ;-)

--

[...] remember when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down 'ere on Earth!

Monty Python's Universe Song

About a minute before my wife arrived, the two people at one table got
up
and left. Those two extra chairs at their table were still empty. The
[censored] had lied to me, and only one person came to sit in one of the
two
empty seats at the one next to that.

Well, that's nicer than my BIL, who just says grumpily, no, you can't
sit with me! It amazes him that anyone would ask ;-). He's 57, btw.

Marge said:

Well, that's nicer than my BIL, who just says grumpily, no, you can't
sit with me! It amazes him that anyone would ask ;-). He's 57, btw.

I didn't want to sit with them. U hd already put my things down on the
empty table near them. I just wanted to take one of their unoccupied
chairs. People at three tables claimed the chairs were occupied, that
their friends were up getting coffee. Of the 5 empty chairs, only one of
them ended up with someone sitting at them. Maybe I should have just taken
on. What could they do ? :-)

Bubbabob <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Michel Boucher said:

sf <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Men who shout into their cell phones when they want people
around them to notice how important they are is a pet peeve
of mine.

And women who shout into their cell phones to get their
husbands/boyfriends to follow orders are a pet peeve of mine ;-)

Anyone with a cell phone is a pet peeve of mine.

Well, personally, I don't mind people with cell phones. I just don't
particularly care for some of the conversations, especially the ones
about vaginal discharges. Mostly I just tune them out. The only
annoying part are some of the newfangled rings that sound like the
1812 Overture, or worse...that sound like my cell phone and I have to
check to see if it's mine.

However, in all fairness, one person talking on a cell phone in a
restaurant or on a bus is not much different than two people talking
at the table or seat next to you. If one is loud, it will be just as
annoying to any conversation you might be having.

--

[...] remember when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down 'ere on Earth!

Monty Python's Universe Song

Quoted message said:

I didn't want to sit with them. U hd already put my things down on the
empty table near them. I just wanted to take one of their unoccupied
chairs. People at three tables claimed the chairs were occupied, that
their friends were up getting coffee. Of the 5 empty chairs, only one

of

Quoted message said:

them ended up with someone sitting at them. Maybe I should have just

taken

Quoted message said:

on. What could they do ? :-)

Wow, now that's bad. It despresses me to think of that chain spreading
around the world.

Quoted message said:

Well, personally, I don't mind people with cell phones. I just don't
particularly care for some of the conversations, especially the ones
about vaginal discharges. Mostly I just tune them out. The only
annoying part are some of the newfangled rings that sound like the
1812 Overture, or worse...that sound like my cell phone and I have to
check to see if it's mine.

I know I sound like a curmudgeon but walking down the street seeing so
many people with phones pasted to their ears, I don't see the draw of
it. It's like it disconnects you from what you're experiencing in the
moment and the people around you. For emergencies, or for business, I
can see it. For everyday life to me it seems like communication
overkill. And it is intrusive a lot of the times, and can be
dangerous. I know people who drive and talk on their phones despite
the new laws against it.

"Marge" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, personally, I don't mind people with cell phones. I just
don't particularly care for some of the conversations, especially
the ones about vaginal discharges. Mostly I just tune them out.
The only annoying part are some of the newfangled rings that sound
like the 1812 Overture, or worse...that sound like my cell phone
and I have to check to see if it's mine.

I know I sound like a curmudgeon but walking down the street
seeing so many people with phones pasted to their ears, I don't
see the draw of it. It's like it disconnects you from what you're
experiencing in the moment and the people around you.

They said the same thing about computer chats and newsgroups ten-
twelve years ago, that what we're doing now would disconnect us from
human contact and cause mass psychoses among teenagers (as if that
were new :-) ) and that is now proven to be a load of [censored].

People who are talking on cell phones are in contact with others and
no less aware of their surroundings than two people having a
conversation while walking down the street. Are you advocating that
two persons walking down the street should not converse if the urge
strikes them?

As for driving and cell phones, some people can handle it, others
can't. You can get a hands-free setup with a voice operated cell
phone and a mike/earpiece so you don't actually need to touch the
phone. Then it would be like talking to someone sitting in the
passenger seat.

Honestly, people go out of their way to find reasons to dislike
technology.

--

[...] remember when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down 'ere on Earth!

Monty Python's Universe Song

Michel Boucher said:

I can see dialing and trying to find the tiny numbers while driving
being a risk, but talking...give me a freaking break....

Sorry Michel, but I have seen too many people wander on the road, blow
stop signs, fail to yield etc. because they are distracted by a
telephone conversation. I have had calls or had to make calls while
driving and I usually end up pulling over to finish the conversation
because I find it too distracting. It is not the same has having a
person there. At least a person in the car can warn you if your driving
becomes erratic. A cell phone conversation is not necessarily more
distracting that other conversations in restaurants and coffee shops,
but most of them are. Only in truck stops are there pay phones at the
tables. In most other places the phones are located in a place where the
conversations can be fairly private, and those are the same places where
cell calls should be made.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Imho, two people walking down the street talking creates a
different social interaction and has a different social impact
than a single person walking down the street on the phone.

There's that old style prejudice again. How, pray tell, is the
interaction between two people talking different than one person
talking to another on the phone?

Have you ever had a three way conversation, you on telephone with
someone and a third person present? It is not the same as having a
three way direct conversation. Talking on the telephone general requires
more concentration than a direct personal conversation.

Quoted message said:

If that were the case, we should
outlaw phones altogether, in offices and in homes, and insist that
people meet face to face at all times and under all circumstances.

That is simply not practical. Telephones are a necessity for some types
of personal and business communication. Cell phones are perfectly
acceptable as a means of conversation. The problem is the people who
drive around paying more attention to their telephone conversation than
to the road and traffic, and those who insist on sharing their side of
cell phone conversations with everyone around them.

Dave Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Michel Boucher said:

I can see dialing and trying to find the tiny numbers while
driving being a risk, but talking...give me a freaking break....

Sorry Michel, but I have seen too many people wander on the road,
blow stop signs, fail to yield etc. because they are distracted by
a telephone conversation.

And strangely enough, I have not had the same experience. Odd, isn't
it. It used to be more common, I admit, but I've only actually heard
of one case recently, where a person who shall remain nameless was
talking on a cell phone AND trying to put on makeup while negotiating
the corner of Bank and Wellington. No, it wasn't Stephen Harper,
darn it all.

Quoted message said:

I have had calls or had to make calls
while driving and I usually end up pulling over to finish the
conversation because I find it too distracting.

Perhaps you're easily distracted anyway :-)

Quoted message said:

It is not the same
has having a person there.

Well, of course not, but is it a significant difference?

Quoted message said:

At least a person in the car can warn
you if your driving becomes erratic.

Not if they're distracted by the conversation. Come on...you're
obviously making this up.

Quoted message said:

A cell phone conversation is
not necessarily more distracting that other conversations in
restaurants and coffee shops, but most of them are.

Ok, how so? You are not listening to the whole thing, there are long
periods of silence when your gan regain your composure...how it is
MORE distracting? Perhaps you mean that you are more annoyed by
that. Why does it annoy you, exactly?

Quoted message said:

Only in truck
stops are there pay phones at the tables. In most other places the
phones are located in a place where the conversations can be
fairly private, and those are the same places where cell calls
should be made.

Should? Should people at the same table also retreat to the
"talking" area to speak privately so they wouldn't disturb the near
state of supreme asceticism you prefer while in public? Should they
actually speak at all? Perhaps, once the cell phone using gene has
been identified, place a mark on their forehead or have their vocal
chords should be removed at birth? How far are you willing to go with
this?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Imho, two people walking down the street talking creates a
different social interaction and has a different social impact
than a single person walking down the street on the phone.

There's that old style prejudice again. How, pray tell, is the
interaction between two people talking different than one person
talking to another on the phone?

Have you ever had a three way conversation, you on telephone with
someone and a third person present? It is not the same as having
a three way direct conversation. Talking on the telephone general
requires more concentration than a direct personal conversation.

I've been doing the phone/ftf thing for nearly sixty years. If you
have two persons talking at you at the same time in the room, or one
on the phone and one in the room, how different is that in terms of
your concentration? Perhaps your concentration does not allow you to
do this. Then you should in fact forego the use of a cell phone (or
any phone) in a public place.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If that were the case, we should
outlaw phones altogether, in offices and in homes, and insist
that people meet face to face at all times and under all
circumstances.

That is simply not practical.

But it seems to be the natural offshoot of your (and others'😉
argument. Conversations are distracting, phone conversations which
include periods of silence for you as the other person speaks are
more distracting than constant yammering. This is what you're
saying. Ok, I get it...or actually, you better explain that one to
me. And please, none of this dehumanizing influence, disembodied
voice [censored]...

Living in society is putting up with inconveniences. Try taking the
bus sometimes.

--

[...] remember when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down 'ere on Earth!

Monty Python's Universe Song

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michel Boucher said:

I can see dialing and trying to find the tiny numbers while driving
being a risk, but talking...give me a freaking break....

Sorry Michel, but I have seen too many people wander on the road, blow
stop signs, fail to yield etc. because they are distracted by a
telephone conversation. I have had calls or had to make calls while
driving and I usually end up pulling over to finish the conversation
because I find it too distracting.

It's been proven that people become distracted when on the phone
and that their field of vision narrows significantly ... yes, even with
a hands free phone.

It's become an epidemic, people swerving all over the place
completely oblivious to the fact that they just cut someone off.
One could contact the insurance industry if they wanted to
know the facts and figures concerning driving while on the
phone and accidents.

nancy

"Michel Boucher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

And strangely enough, I have not had the same experience. Odd, isn't
it.

Lucky you.Most of us have seen an instance or two. Maybe you don't drive
all that much?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is not the same
has having a person there.

Well, of course not, but is it a significant difference?

I think so. It somewhat depends on the conversation. Yakking with a buddy
or trying to negotiate a business deal will make a difference in the
intensity and focus of the driver/talker.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A cell phone conversation is
not necessarily more distracting that other conversations in
restaurants and coffee shops, but most of them are.

Ok, how so?
Why does it annoy you, exactly?

Some people tend to raise their voice when talking on a phone, expecially a
cell phone. That becomes anoying.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Smith said:

The guy on the other side never did have any human in it. It's
occupant used it for a coat rack, pulled out his laptop and cell
phone and started making long, loud phone calls. I was having a hard
time hearing my wife because he was speaking so loud.

When people talk very loudly on their cellphones, I sometimes take part
in their conversation: "Oh, no, tell her to go with the blue," "I hope
his tennis elbow improves," etc.

When they glare, I innocently protest that they were speaking so loudly,
I thought they were including everyone in their conversation.

--
to respond (OT only), change "spamless.invalid" to "optonline.net"

<http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/>

Scott said:

When people talk very loudly on their cellphones, I sometimes take part
in their conversation: "Oh, no, tell her to go with the blue," "I hope
his tennis elbow improves," etc.

When they glare, I innocently protest that they were speaking so loudly,
I thought they were including everyone in their conversation.

LMAO That is a good one. Mind if I try your approach?

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 10:26:04 -0500, "Nancy Young" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michel Boucher said:

I can see dialing and trying to find the tiny numbers while driving
being a risk, but talking...give me a freaking break....

Sorry Michel, but I have seen too many people wander on the road, blow
stop signs, fail to yield etc. because they are distracted by a
telephone conversation. I have had calls or had to make calls while
driving and I usually end up pulling over to finish the conversation
because I find it too distracting.

It's been proven that people become distracted when on the phone
and that their field of vision narrows significantly ... yes, even with
a hands free phone.

It's become an epidemic, people swerving all over the place
completely oblivious to the fact that they just cut someone off.
One could contact the insurance industry if they wanted to
know the facts and figures concerning driving while on the
phone and accidents.

nancy

One could, though, read some hard facts. AAA has released data that
says cell phones are just one on a list of distractions that can
contribute to accidents. People like to blame it all on cell phones
because their use is so readily visible. You just can't easily tell
when someone swerves because he is scratching his balls or she's
putting a cd into the changer.

Cell phone use leaves an electronic record for accident investigators.
Nothing else on the list does. so it is quite easy to peg their use
accurately during an investigation.

Boron

http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win03_DrivenToDistraction.htm
In descending order:

Outside person, object or event
Adjusting radio/cassette/CD
Other occupant
Moving object in vehicle(dog, insect, spilled drink, etc.)
Other device/object (water bottles, purses, etc.)
Adjusting vehicle/climate controls
Eating and/or drinking
Using/dialing cellular phone
Smoking related
Other distractions

In article <[email hidden]>,

Marge said:

I know I sound like a curmudgeon but walking down the street seeing so
many people with phones pasted to their ears, I don't see the draw of
it. It's like it disconnects you from what you're experiencing in the
moment and the people around you.

In call them "cellbots."

--
to respond (off-topic *only*), change "spamless.invalid" to "optonline.net"
please post on-topic replies only to the newsgroup.

<http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/>

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michel Boucher said:

I can see dialing and trying to find the tiny numbers while driving
being a risk, but talking...give me a freaking break....

Study after study has shown that it is *talking* on the cell phone while
driving that's the problem, not holding it (meaning that hands-free laws
are useless).

Quoted message said:

There's that old style prejudice again. How, pray tell, is the
interaction between two people talking different than one person
talking to another on the phone? If that were the case, we should
outlaw phones altogether, in offices and in homes, and insist that
people meet face to face at all times and under all circumstances.

Again, the studies I've seen say that talking on the phone *while
driving* is different than talking to a passenger (non-driving
situations is a different issue).

The University of Toronto published a study titled "Association Between
Cellular-Telephone Calls and Motor Vehicle Collisions", in the New
England Journal of Medicine in February of 1997. It found that the risk
of collision when using a cell phone is 4 times higher regardless of the
age or the driving experience of the driver, with hands-free units being
no safer.

Multiple studies following have backed it up, and expanded on this
study. Regarding comparisons with conversations with a passenger,
studies have shown that the accident rate is far lower for
with-passenger conversations. The passenger is in tune with driving
conditions, and is far more likely to pause or stop talking altogether
should a dangerous situation seem to be developing, and to point out
that situation to the driver. Further, Lee Gugerty, a professor of
psychology at Clemson University, studied the issue and found that "It
seems to be more difficult to have a cell phone conversation than when
someone is right beside you."

--
to respond (off-topic *only*), change "spamless.invalid" to "optonline.net"
please post on-topic replies only to the newsgroup.

<http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/>

In article <[email hidden]>,

Marge said:

People who are talking on cell phones are in contact with others and
no less aware of their surroundings than two people having a
conversation while walking down the street. Are you advocating that
two persons walking down the street should not converse if the urge
strikes them?

The difference is two tons plus of moving metal.

In other words ... someone behind a wheel can kill me.

Quoted message said:

As for driving and cell phones, some people can handle it, others
can't. You can get a hands-free setup with a voice operated cell
phone and a mike/earpiece so you don't actually need to touch the
phone. Then it would be like talking to someone sitting in the
passenger seat.

Which can be distracting as well, especially with those prone to hand
gestures!

Quoted message said:

Honestly, people go out of their way to find reasons to dislike
technology.

That's not it.

They dislike rudeness, and inattentiveness when safety is an issue.

Quoted message said:

I don't dislike technology at all. I have lots of toys that I
thoroughly enjoy. It seems logical to me that anyone driving and
talking on the phone is going to be distracted. Some more than others.
How do you test which people can handle it easily? There's a reason
why laws have been passed against it.

yep.

Quoted message said:

Imho, two people walking down the street talking creates a different
social interaction and has a different social impact than a single
person walking down the street on the phone. There was a news story
recently about restaurants in New York planning on banning cell phones
(I'm not sure if that has happened or if it will; I didn't follow up on
the story). I don't think I'm the only one that finds cell phones
verses two people chatting in person a different interaction. How
about two people walking down the street, one talking on the phone
while the other walks along silently. I've also seen, more than once,
two people walking down the street, each person talking on the cell
phone to someone else.

Yeah, that's bizarre.

Quoted message said:

I'm not saying all cell phones should be thrown out the window (though
some should), just that they should be used more judiciously (and with
better manners).

As Miss Manners notes, the law steps in where manners fail.

Charlotte
--

Michel Boucher said:

It used to be more common, I admit, but I've only actually heard
of one case recently, where a person who shall remain nameless was
talking on a cell phone AND trying to put on makeup while negotiating
the corner of Bank and Wellington.

Heck, I've seen plenty of that stuff w/o cell phone:
putting on make up, brushing teeth, face shaving...

sf