Buy?? Look KG386 or Sigma Nemesis or Condor Baracchi carbon

I love my LOOK and I admit to being biased a bit, but when I buy a new carbon frame, I getting another LOOK for certain. I have a KG381i Team CSC (matte black). My first choice would be to go with the 481SL from Sigma (a bit pricier than the 386 - 1699 vs 1300 I think it was). If you can afford it. Its a lot lighter than the 386 and an awesome frame. Ultegra 10 you can get from Total Cycling for 350-450 depending on where you are located. I dont know Sigma's cost for the gruppo. I would then use the Elites you have unless you can afford new wheels. Does meet your desired budget, but it is only the frame and gruppo. I'm not sure if you need all the other components too, in which case this course would take you outside what you wish to spend.

Thanks graf - After alot of thought, i think i am going with your advise on the LOOK frameset. I cannot afford the 481 so i think the 386i or the KX light. what do you think? I guess its now a case of deciding compact or traditional?

miswd said:

Thanks graf - After alot of thought, i think i am going with your advise on the LOOK frameset. I cannot afford the 481 so i think the 386i or the KX light. what do you think? I guess its now a case of deciding compact or traditional?

You're welcome. I think both choices are superb and, as you mention, its a geometry-based choice here. The weight is pretty close. I suspect the KX Light to be a tad stiffer, all other things equal, but I have to say honestly that the 381i has put any such flex concerns to rest for me. I'm around 6' and change and average 160 pounds for sake of reference. I hesitate to say too much more than that, not having ridden the KX Light, but I truly dont think you can go wrong between the two. Just be sure to have someone doublecheck your fit between the two geometries, unless you're picking a frame close to one you already have.

Pick the one that draws you to it for whatever reasons being aware mostly of the geometry. Part of it will simply come down to the one you'll be happiest riding. Note: I looked at Competitive cyclist and the closeout 381i they had is a bit different than mine in terms of logo work. Check out mine (attached) and have fun. Beautiful frames from a top notch company.

Enjoy. Let me know what you decide.

It was worth the wait!! Would you believe i have manged to put down a deposit on 481sl today. The frameset is 2004 but i am getting it for.......1299! 🙂 I think it is a great deal, what do you reckon? I am going with ulterega 10spd with that new bottom bracket of theirs and the rest of the set will be fairly standard due to lack of cash!! So the grand total if i use my elites will be 2000 or 2400 if i go for the Ksyrium SSC-SL's. Do you think they are worth the extra 400? It will take a week for the frame to arrive and have it built to my liking but as soon as i get it I will take a photograph. Thanks for your on going advice.

I think its a good deal. Its a hell of a frame. Congrats. ^^ What's the color scheme choice?

On the wheels, I gather the Elites weigh about 1720g in total and the SSC SLs around 1500g. I'd think you would wish to upgrade the wheels at some point, but since you arent purchasing the Elites over the SSC SLs, its simply a matter of upgrading your wheels at any time of your choosing. Totalcycling.com has the SSC SL 2s for £379, so they are always available to you around that price. Worth the upgrade for sure, but you can be happy on the Elites for a season and upgrade next if you need to. Sort of depends I guess on how your budget is looking.

I dont actually have the SSC SLs myself, but a hand-built set with aerospokes that weighs in at around 1540g. I have to say, over my older wheelset, I did notice the difference and was very happy with that upgrade, since my old wheels weighed about what your Elites do. Its nice, and I'd do it if you can, but I think you made the right choice in getting that frame and the Ultegra 10. Man, wait until you ride that. 😎 I was near tears of joy the first time I hopped on mine. Amazing. Still is.

Looking forward to a picture. I love checking out other LOOKs. 😄

miswd said:

It was worth the wait!! Would you believe i have manged to put down a deposit on 481sl today. The frameset is 2004 but i am getting it for.......1299! 🙂 I think it is a great deal, what do you reckon? I am going with ulterega 10spd with that new bottom bracket of theirs and the rest of the set will be fairly standard due to lack of cash!! So the grand total if i use my elites will be 2000 or 2400 if i go for the Ksyrium SSC-SL's. Do you think they are worth the extra 400? It will take a week for the frame to arrive and have it built to my liking but as soon as i get it I will take a photograph. Thanks for your on going advice.

Hi Graf,

You answered one of my other threads about the 461. No other replies yet. The shop doesn't have anything I can test ride in that model so I wondered if you, or anyone else, knew which other frame is closest to the 461 in ride quality, so I can try one of them just to check that it isn't a donkey (which I know it won't be, but I feel edgy about forking out large cash on something I have no idea how it feels!).

drdoug said:

Hi Graf,

You answered one of my other threads about the 461. No other replies yet. The shop doesn't have anything I can test ride in that model so I wondered if you, or anyone else, knew which other frame is closest to the 461 in ride quality, so I can try one of them just to check that it isn't a donkey (which I know it won't be, but I feel edgy about forking out large cash on something I have no idea how it feels!).

I'm willing to bet the 461 isnt a donkey. 😄 I know where you are coming from though. Its hard to buy a frame unseen, especially when it digs deep into your pockets. I havent ridden a 461, so I cant really say. Can you ride a 451? The 461 will be better than that in terms of its stiffness.

I'd recommend to anyone I knew considering a carbon frame to try a LOOK, but I feel more comfortable standing behind that when speaking of their HM frames, because I havent ridden any of their HR frames. According to everything I have read, the 461 is as close to their HM line as possible, its downside being its weight is a bit higher due to the extra layers of HR carbon for stiffness and the larger sized tubes. I'd like to ride it to see what its like and if that's true, itd be a great frame, because in my opinion, unless you're at the top of the fitness game you dont need a frame at the top of the weight game. Doesnt hurt at all to have one of course, especially if you love bikes, but my point is it doesnt really help your performance.

Maybe try calling Veltec Sports (US distributor for LOOK) and get a shop location say, within 4 hours of you, that has one built up that you could test out? I know for example a similar shop in my case, 3.5 hours away, that has all the LOOK frames and usually has all but the highest end frames built. Its where I send anyone I talk to in person to go try them out. Its a thought. Maybe you can actually ride the 461 that way. You could also get one of their sales people on the phone and get some more opinions on the frame, or get a number to a shop anywhere they think someone at the shop may have direct experience on the frame. Lots of possibilities that way:

http://www.veltecsports.com/

graf zeppelin said:

I'm willing to bet the 461 isnt a donkey. 😄 I know where you are coming from though. Its hard to buy a frame unseen, especially when it digs deep into your pockets. I havent ridden a 461, so I cant really say. Can you ride a 451? The 461 will be better than that in terms of its stiffness.

I'd recommend to anyone I knew considering a carbon frame to try a LOOK, but I feel more comfortable standing behind that when speaking of their HM frames, because I havent ridden any of their HR frames. According to everything I have read, the 461 is as close to their HM line as possible, its downside being its weight is a bit higher due to the extra layers of HR carbon for stiffness and the larger sized tubes. I'd like to ride it to see what its like and if that's true, itd be a great frame, because in my opinion, unless you're at the top of the fitness game you dont need a frame at the top of the weight game. Doesnt hurt at all to have one of course, especially if you love bikes, but my point is it doesnt really help your performance.

Maybe try calling Veltec Sports (US distributor for LOOK) and get a shop location say, within 4 hours of you, that has one built up that you could test out? I know for example a similar shop in my case, 3.5 hours away, that has all the LOOK frames and usually has all but the highest end frames built. Its where I send anyone I talk to in person to go try them out. Its a thought. Maybe you can actually ride the 461 that way. You could also get one of their sales people on the phone and get some more opinions on the frame, or get a number to a shop anywhere they think someone at the shop may have direct experience on the frame. Lots of possibilities that way:

veltecsports.comveltecsports.comOpen ↗

Thanks, but the US is 8 hours by plane 'cos I'm in the UK! I was after some alternative frames as I'm off to a different Look store who hasn't got the 461 either. I'll give the 451 a go if he has one. He will be busy trying to sell me an alu/carbon stay Billato as he is the sole UK distributor, but he is a 45 min drive away so after sales will be trickier!

Thanks anyway and I'll keep you posted.😉

drdoug said:

Thanks, but the US is 8 hours by plane 'cos I'm in the UK! I was after some alternative frames as I'm off to a different Look store who hasn't got the 461 either. I'll give the 451 a go if he has one. He will be busy trying to sell me an alu/carbon stay Billato as he is the sole UK distributor, but he is a 45 min drive away so after sales will be trickier!

Thanks anyway and I'll keep you posted.😉

LOL. An 8-hour flight should be worth your love of cycling. 😄 My apologies. I didnt have my thinking cap on when replying, but the same sort of idea might work if you start at the LOOK site and find the UK distributor. Seems like you have another good place to check, but yeah, I do prefer to work with the same shop I buy the frame from if at all possible.

On your other thread, someone posted that they felt the 461 was a bit buttery. You might want to look at the 555 if you can. Its a bit more than the 461, its lighter, its HM and its the redesigned KX Light effectively. KX Light was a fine frame and I'd expect the 555 to be also. Hopefully the trip is fruitful.