whats up with the italians

It's in the wine "JTN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

how is it that 95% of all the positive drug tests are Italians. do they

not

Quoted message said:

know drugs are illegal? do they know the definition of illegal? what the hell?

JTN said:

how is it that 95% of all the positive drug tests are Italians. do they not know drugs are illegal?
do they know the definition of illegal? what the hell?

Italy is the only place where they started to do serious antidoping controls

in article [email hidden], Davide Tosi at [email hidden] wrote on
6/19/03 4:15 PM:

Quoted message said:

JTN said:

how is it that 95% of all the positive drug tests are Italians. do they not know drugs are
illegal? do they know the definition of illegal? what the hell?

Italy is the only place where they started to do serious antidoping controls

Notice that very few Spanish riders test positive, and a curiously large number of foreign pros have
moved to Spain.

What's up with that?

"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JTN said:

how is it that 95% of all the positive drug tests are Italians. do they

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

know drugs are illegal? do they know the definition of illegal? what the hell?

Italy is the only place where they started to do serious antidoping controls

France started before Italy although these 2 nations seem to be the only ones.

OTOH, Italy is the only country where people dope up for cyclotourismo events.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Italy is the only place where they started to do serious antidoping controls

France started before Italy although these 2 nations seem to be the only ones.

Belgium has stepped up the pace a bit. A couple of weeks ago the "Flemish anti-doping bus" turned up
to an amateur kermesse and tested 10(!) riders. Funny thing was that a) the bus only showed up in
the last hour of the race
b) they only tested one rider in the top 20 (Johan Verhaegen) and c) most of the riders picked for
testing had already been dropped and had ridden home. They had to get them all to come back
(which they did somehow), otherwise the riders who weren't there would have been given six months
for "avoiding" a doping control that they didn't know about. Pretty funny.

They could announce the riders who were going to be tested on the start line, but I guess that would
open the possibility of a syringe in the last hour for certain *unscrupulous* types who were not on
the list. The rule at the moment is that if you start, you have to stay until the end of the race in
case there is testing.

Btw, Bortolami was tested in Belgium, Caruso was tested in Australia, Loddo in Portugal and Di
Falco in Italy.

Jeff

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

OTOH, Italy is the only country where people dope up for cyclotourismo events.

I wonder what the results would be if they tested riders on the Wednesday Tri-ride?

reply to the original post:

I am all for drug testing but in this thread I think it's not "what's up with the Italians?" because
they actually dared to crack down on drugs, but What is up with testing?

Testing is a tough nut to crack because the users are far ahead of the legal process of testing.
Further, sport's cannot be all things to all people, every company from the UCI, to your
District, and from the Big Cheese, to the local Ma and Pa has to prioritize their money to bring
in sales = in each part of Earth there is a business that sucks in most of the money and the
other businesses in that region are competing to make that money their own. Maybe a couple
sports have the extra money to completely manage the drug testing process, most do not. Many
organizations seem to have a policy of looking the other way than spend the money to do the
right thing.

Good testing is a must and it must occur beginning with the local level of racing, and continue
through the top of cycling. Further, manufacturers must be held accountable for of the
distribution of their products.

John Bickmore www.BicycleCam.com www.Feed-Zone.com

Any of these guys Padans?

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

OTOH, Italy is the only country where people dope up for cyclotourismo events.

c'm on..... there are people who dope up for less than that, just to drop the buddies on
sunday morning.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

OTOH, Italy is the only country where people dope up for cyclotourismo events.

I wonder what the results would be if they tested riders on the Wednesday Tri-ride?

I know of at least one dude who would test positive. Unfortunately, after
9/11, they closed the base to cyclists. We're screwed.

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Italy is the only place where they started to do serious antidoping controls

France started before Italy although these 2 nations seem to be the only ones.

Belgium has stepped up the pace a bit. A couple of weeks ago the "Flemish anti-doping bus" turned
up to an amateur kermesse and tested 10(!) riders.

<snip>

Did anyone test positive?

The impression I got from some riders who spent a few years on the Belgian circuit is that it was
totally drug ridden. I have no way of knowing whether it has cleaned up since then, but amphetamines
seemed to rule the day.

It'd be fun to sit around, crack open a few beers and exchange stories, but unfortunately this
newsgroup isn't the place for such fun.

Bart said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

OTOH, Italy is the only country where people dope up for cyclotourismo events.

Quoted message said:

c'm on..... there are people who dope up for less than that, just to drop the buddies on sunday
morning.

Americans dope to get laid. Top that!

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

Living in the American glass house, not throwing stones.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Did anyone test positive?

Not sure yet. I doubt it.

Quoted message said:

The impression I got from some riders who spent a few years on the Belgian circuit is that it was
totally drug ridden. I have no way of knowing

whether

Quoted message said:

it has cleaned up since then, but amphetamines seemed to rule the day.

Without being too naiive, I think it has cleaned up a bit in recent years and hopefully will
continue to do so with the threat of more doping controls. Not that it makes a difference to the
results. Most of the races are won by about 10 guys, who are either ex-pros, wannabe pros, or career
amateurs, who are smart enough to realise they'll make more money with less pressure this way.
They're all strong, and don't need to dope to rip your legs off.

I hear lots of stories too, some of them I can believe. I've spotted riders who are obviously dosed
up on speed, and (a few years ago) I got a first hand account from a rider who did so for a 300 km
race in the freezing rain. He said he felt great for the first 160 km and had to take all his layers
of clothing off because it was too hot :-) Then he ran out of gas but still finished. Of course, for
a 120 km kermesse this isn't a problem.

Jeff

Robert Chung said:

Any of these guys Padans?

Bortolami, who is from near Milan (but he's accused of using corticoids, a joke of a doping)

the other 3 are southern scumbags

[email hidden] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Robert Chung said:

Any of these guys Padans?

Bortolami, who is from near Milan (but he's accused of using corticoids, a joke of a doping)

Hey what team was Bortolami on in the late 90s ?

"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robert Chung said:

Any of these guys Padans?

Bortolami, who is from near Milan (but he's accused of using corticoids, a joke of a doping)

Ah. Well in that case, it's okay.

Quoted message said:

the other 3 are southern scumbags

Mapei... finished 2nd to Museeuw in the Mapei 96 sweep of Paris-Roubaix, JM, Bortolami, and Tafi.
They did the Team Time Trial from The Forest to the end... The end of the races is funny viewing as
the two Italians dispute (repaetedly) LeFevere's decision to have JM win the race. it was the year
Ballerini flateed 4 times trying to repeat... finished 5.

Amit said:

[email hidden] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Robert Chung said:

Any of these guys Padans?

Bortolami, who is from near Milan (but he's accused of using corticoids, a joke of a doping)

Hey what team was Bortolami on in the late 90s ?

Quoted message said:

Mapei... finished 2nd to Museeuw in the Mapei 96 sweep of Paris-Roubaix, JM, Bortolami, and Tafi.
They did the Team Time Trial from The Forest to the end... The end of the races is funny viewing
as the two Italians dispute (repaetedly) LeFevere's decision to have JM win the race. it was the
year Ballerini flateed 4 times trying to repeat... finished 5.

After (i think 2 years) at Mapei he joined Festina. It surpised me to see him leading the main field
on colls of 2nd and 3rd category preparing an attack of Virenque. I found it very strange to see a
classics rider doing that. I guess it was right to be suspicious. The tour '98 showed that.

"JTN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

how is it that 95% of all the positive drug tests are Italians. do they not know drugs are
illegal? do they know the definition of illegal? what the hell?

I've heard that a mentality that exists or at least has existed in Italy is that the people think
it's better that people take drugs to be better at sports rather than getting high on narcotics.

That won't explain why so many get caught cheating but it certainly doesn't help the
matter in Italy.