Rear view mirror

www.users.on.net/njpayne/bikestuff.

"yum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any recommedation ?

Try Third Eye - excellent product and excellent service

See

http://www.3rd-eye.com/welcome.html

Bob C

"yum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any recommedation ?

Depends. I'm considering getting Bell's Metro mirror, since I really
like my Metro helmet.

But, so far at least, I've been unimpressed with glasses/helmet mount
mirrors. The best mirror I've found so far is this one:

http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/readitem.pl?Accessory=987268561

Actually, mine is a bar-end mount version of this with no stalk. I
bought it at the Hostel Shoppe, in fact, during last year's GRABAAWR so
I could keep track of things, and left it on when I got back home for
commuting purposes. If you can't get it locally, I'm sure the HS folks
would be willing to assist.

Third Eye has a better mirror (larger), but this Cycleaware reflex is the
best helmet mirror. I can even use this mirror when wearing
over-the-glasses ski goggles. The swing-away design keeps it from being
broken when snagged on an overhanging twig, whatever. The gooseneck flexes
and repositions over and over without complaint.
http://www.cycleaware.com/products/reflex.php

"Bob C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try Third Eye - excellent product and excellent service

See

http://www.3rd-eye.com/welcome.html

Bob C

"yum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Hey, thanks for this neat shrink tubing eyeglass bow attachment
idea...great!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any recommedation ?

yum said:

Any recommedation ?

Bike Peddler Take A Look

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/common/products/productdisplay2_v2.cfm?PRRFNBR=16494&S=16494,10778

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

yum said:

Any recommedation ?

Bike Peddler Take A Look

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/common/products/productdisplay2_v2.cfm?PRRFNBR=16494&S=16494,10778

Quoted message said:

Ditto this recommendation. The Take a Look is, by far, the best
glasses-mounted mirror that I've tried.

Here's a review of various mirror systems:

http://www.icebike.com/Equipment/cyclingmirrors.htm

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

"Bob C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try Third Eye - excellent product and excellent service

See

http://www.3rd-eye.com/welcome.html

Bob C

"yum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any recommedation ?

Hey! I'm Bob C. and I've been Bob C. in these cycling newsgroups for years
and years and years.

Oh ... and I've also posted many endorsements of the very same mirror you're
endorsing -- the Third Eye. Great mirror.

I'll bet you're a handsome devil.

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

"Bob C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try Third Eye - excellent product and excellent service

See

http://www.3rd-eye.com/welcome.html

Bob C

I've been using the Third Eye bar end mirror (09) on various road bikes for
at least 10 years. I have four in service right now and a spare on the
shelf. Wouldn't leave the driveway without it. I don't know anyone who has
tried one that has not stuck with it.
Bill Brannon

yum said:

Any recommedation ?

I agree with J. Brandt when he wrote [1]"...because I have found that
when looking in a head mounted mirror, I cannot accurately tell anything
about the following vehicle's position except that it is behind me. That
is because I am looking into a mirror whose angular position with
respect to the road is unknown. The rear view mirror in a car is fixed
with respect to the direction of travel and objects seen in it are seen
with reference to ones own vehicle, be that the rear window frame or
side of the car. I find the image in a head mounted mirror on a bicycle
to be distracting and a source of paranoia if I watch it enough. It does
not tell me whether the upcoming car is, or is not, going to slice me."

I use the "Mountain Mirrycle" [2] on all my regular street bikes.

[1] <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/mirrors.html>.
[2] <http://www.mirrycle.com/mountainmirrycle.htm>.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth

Tom Sherman said:

I agree with J. Brandt when he wrote [1]"...because I have found that
when looking in a head mounted mirror, I cannot accurately tell anything
about the following vehicle's position except that it is behind me.

I would believe that you and Jobst can't tell that, because like many
other things, it takes a good bit of practice to get used to using one
of these mirrors. I recall a couple of close calls when I first was
getting the hang of it, many years ago.

Quoted message said:

That
is because I am looking into a mirror whose angular position with
respect to the road is unknown. The rear view mirror in a car is fixed
with respect to the direction of travel and objects seen in it are seen
with reference to ones own vehicle, be that the rear window frame or
side of the car. I find the image in a head mounted mirror on a bicycle
to be distracting and a source of paranoia if I watch it enough. It does
not tell me whether the upcoming car is, or is not, going to slice me."

That's not the purpose of a rear view mirror. It does let you know if
it's safe to change lanes, or to dodge a pothole, depending on whether a
car is about to overtake you or not.

If there's no car behind you, you know you can use any lane position you
find convenient. If there is a car overtaking, you know that you need
to keep to the right, or to signal and possibly "negotiate" before
moving left.

A helmet mounted mirror, like the 3rd Eye I use, can be optically flat,
making it possible to make a reasonable judgement as to the distance of
a vehicle behind you.

A bike-mounted mirror has to be convex, which makes "Objects in mirror
closer than they appear."

Sheldon "3rd Eye" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| What is good for you is what is good for you. |
| --Peter Chisholm |
+-------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown said:

Tom Sherman said:

I agree with J. Brandt when he wrote [1]"...because I have found that
when looking in a head mounted mirror, I cannot accurately tell anything
about the following vehicle's position except that it is behind me.

I would believe that you and Jobst can't tell that, because like many
other things, it takes a good bit of practice to get used to using one
of these mirrors. I recall a couple of close calls when I first was
getting the hang of it, many years ago.

Quoted message said:

That
is because I am looking into a mirror whose angular position with
respect to the road is unknown. The rear view mirror in a car is fixed
with respect to the direction of travel and objects seen in it are seen
with reference to ones own vehicle, be that the rear window frame or
side of the car. I find the image in a head mounted mirror on a bicycle
to be distracting and a source of paranoia if I watch it enough. It does
not tell me whether the upcoming car is, or is not, going to slice me."

That's not the purpose of a rear view mirror. It does let you know if
it's safe to change lanes, or to dodge a pothole, depending on whether a
car is about to overtake you or not.

If there's no car behind you, you know you can use any lane position you
find convenient. If there is a car overtaking, you know that you need
to keep to the right, or to signal and possibly "negotiate" before
moving left.

A helmet mounted mirror, like the 3rd Eye I use, can be optically flat,
making it possible to make a reasonable judgement as to the distance of
a vehicle behind you.

A bike-mounted mirror has to be convex, which makes "Objects in mirror
closer than they appear."

I've heard the argument about optics, vibration, and clarity several
times before. My comment has always been, "I don't really need to
read the car's license plate. I just need to know it's there."

With my mirrors (I've used primarily the 3rd Eye), the optics are more
than sufficient for that. If I need more info, my neck--for
now--still swivels ;-)

Sheldon Brown said:

Tom Sherman said:

I agree with J. Brandt when he wrote [1]"...because I have found that
when looking in a head mounted mirror, I cannot accurately tell anything
about the following vehicle's position except that it is behind me.

I would believe that you and Jobst can't tell that, because like many
other things, it takes a good bit of practice to get used to using one
of these mirrors. I recall a couple of close calls when I first was
getting the hang of it, many years ago.

Quoted message said:

That
is because I am looking into a mirror whose angular position with
respect to the road is unknown. The rear view mirror in a car is fixed
with respect to the direction of travel and objects seen in it are seen
with reference to ones own vehicle, be that the rear window frame or
side of the car. I find the image in a head mounted mirror on a bicycle
to be distracting and a source of paranoia if I watch it enough. It does
not tell me whether the upcoming car is, or is not, going to slice me."

That's not the purpose of a rear view mirror. It does let you know if
it's safe to change lanes, or to dodge a pothole, depending on whether a
car is about to overtake you or not.

If there's no car behind you, you know you can use any lane position you
find convenient. If there is a car overtaking, you know that you need
to keep to the right, or to signal and possibly "negotiate" before
moving left.

A helmet mounted mirror, like the 3rd Eye I use, can be optically flat,
making it possible to make a reasonable judgement as to the distance of
a vehicle behind you.

A bike-mounted mirror has to be convex, which makes "Objects in mirror
closer than they appear."

I use one of the old Rhode Gear brake-mounted mirrors. The older ones
have a very stiff metal arm that mounts to the brake hood with a
velcro strap. The metal arm does a good job of isolating most of the
road vibrations so the image in the mirror doesn't appear shaky. The
older Rhode Gear mirrors are convex, but don't have as much
"magnification" as the newer ones, so you have a wider field of view.
Also, I like the fact they are round -- I can keep the mirror adjusted
for one place and see cars whether I'm in the drops or partially
upright with my hands on the tops of the bars.

Rhode Gear/Blackburn at some point went to a flimsier plastic mount, I
suppose so it could mount to the wider hoods found on lever/shifter
combos. I avoid these -- too much vibration, and I have no idea why
they use the oval-shaped mirror. If I adjust it for in the drops it's
out of adjustment when I sit up.

I took an extra older metal arm and rebent the mount to fit the wider
brake/shifter hoods and that works fine.

--Ed G--

Quoted message said:

Sheldon "3rd Eye" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| What is good for you is what is good for you. |
| --Peter Chisholm |
+-------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

I've been using The Third Eye® Foam Helmet Mirror since last summer
and I had no problem with focus, vibration, knowing where the car was, etc.
On Long Island's roads with Long Island drivers I don't feel safe not
knowing
what's behind me.
But that was riding roads with my mountain bike. I just got a road bike
and the mirror would not stay adjusted at speed, the mirror kept being
deflected
by the wind. I did not use it enough to wear it out, it probably is not
stable
with a significant headwind.
My experience only, but I like the helmet mount. Think I'll try the Reflex
mirror
( http://www.cycleaware.com/products/reflex.php ) as suggested by Pedantus.

JP

"Bob C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try Third Eye - excellent product and excellent service

See

http://www.3rd-eye.com/welcome.html

Bob C

"yum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any recommedation ?

"JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:npsWd.51820$t46.33221@trndny04...

Quoted message said:

I've been using The Third Eye® Foam Helmet Mirror since last summer
and I had no problem with focus, vibration, knowing where the car was,
etc.
On Long Island's roads with Long Island drivers I don't feel safe not
knowing
what's behind me.
But that was riding roads with my mountain bike. I just got a road bike
and the mirror would not stay adjusted at speed, the mirror kept being
deflected
by the wind. I did not use it enough to wear it out, it probably is not
stable
with a significant headwind.
My experience only, but I like the helmet mount. Think I'll try the
Reflex
mirror
( http://www.cycleaware.com/products/reflex.php ) as suggested by
Pedantus.

JP

Hey JP,
Be sure to order the replacement kit, the main shaft will out-live the
mirror ball and socket connection. The ball joint does get a little sloppy
over time, but a their replacement kit has the socket part and mirror one
needs to get a new fit. In addition, those persons who worry about wind
moving the mirror will find that the Reflex mirror has a curved back which
helps defeat the push of wind, aerodynamically. As for aging ball joints
and slop, I use rosin from my old bowling bag gear to make parts
sticky..works well...🙂 (don't try any kind of glue..well maybe rubber
cement, never tried that one).
I live in my mirrors, and have ever since I got my tractor trailer
license, so I have three mirrors on my heavily loaded geezer bike/camp
cycle: like Sheldon says, the bar-end mounted mirror is wide angle
(Cateye), the upward handlebar mirror is 3" dia. flat glass (cheap
motorcycle mount with 12' shaft), and the Cycleaware helmet mount for use in
the upright riding position.
Now if one wishes to use only a eyeglass bow attached mirror, take the
Third Eye helmet mirror, cut the helmet attachment off the shaft, and tape
that to your glasses with black vinyl tape, bend the stiff shaft outward and
upward...its larger diameter gives a big view and I have never actually
missed anything important due to the larger blind spot it creates on the
left eye because I position *above* the line of sight. I glance upward to
see behind me, just as I used to have to do when operating a fork lift.
I think the best thing I ever learned is to position the mirror out as
far as possible and above the line of sight--this so no turning of the head
is necessary. The constant 45 degree to travel head position hurts, and
after a few hours the pain keeps one from looking back all together. As for
accuracy of perception, I have successfully detected and dodged beer bottles
thrown by the bicycle loving rednecks in their curiously ego-challenged, two
adolescent, pickup truck assault vehicles roaming back roads anywhere from
Alabama to Pennsylvania...🙂
All that being said, my wife cannot get used to anything but a flat mirror
above the handlebar(the cheap motorcycle type).

Quoted message said:

"Bob C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try Third Eye - excellent product and excellent service

See

http://www.3rd-eye.com/welcome.html

Bob C

"yum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any recommedation ?

Frank Krygowsky said:

For me, that wouldn't work well.

I focus my eyeglass mirror so the rear is in focus when I turn my head
about 30 degrees - roughly the same angle I use to see the side view
mirror in my car. I'm using a reflex that is already there. I have no
pain and no problems with this arrangement.

The turning motion allows me to use a shorter mirror stalk (I make my
own) and thus a smaller mirror to get the same view. That is, it
allows the shorter stalk to give a clear line of sight past my hair,
shoulder, jacket, etc.

This is all correct, except for the misuse of the word "focus." The
word you want is "aim" or "direct."

Focus has to do with the distance, and with a flat mirror, like a
head-mounted mirror, the focus is basically at optical infinity, as it
is for forward view.

This is one of the major advantages of head-mounted mirrors vs
handlebar-mounted ones. A handlebar mirror is so far from the user's
eye that it must be convex to give a useful field of view (and to
minimize shakiness.) With a convex mirror, you need to re-focus your
eyes to a much shorter distance when looking at the mirror, then back to
infinity when you look ahead again.

Sheldon "Optics 101" Brown
+-------------------------------------+
| Natural laws have no pity. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+-------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pedantus said:

I think the best thing I ever learned is to position the mirror

out as

Quoted message said:

far as possible and above the line of sight--this so no turning of

the head

Quoted message said:

is necessary. The constant 45 degree to travel head position hurts,

and

Quoted message said:

after a few hours the pain keeps one from looking back all together.

For me, that wouldn't work well.

I focus my eyeglass mirror so the rear is in focus when I turn my head
about 30 degrees - roughly the same angle I use to see the side view
mirror in my car.

Yes, true...I fear I exaggerated the angle..🙂

I'm using a reflex that is already there. I have no

Quoted message said:

pain and no problems with this arrangement.

Most often I'm not a very organized thinker, and I forget why I tried
different things, but with the prompting of your comments, I now
realize/remember what mirror effect I was searching for. I wanted to be
able to use my helmet mirror while leaning forward as well as when sitting
upright, so I guess I've been making trade-offs:
Yes, the closer position of the eyeglass mirror *does* gives the best
view, except when leaning forward.

When leaning forward: no convex handlebar mirror seems to be able to
accommodate my increasing farsightedness and resulting need for trifocal
eyeglasses (which limit head position).

As well, the pains in my palms and wrists were only alleviated by using a
low end (cheap) aerobar upon which I lounge like a panther on a tree limb,
paws flopped across each other, weight on sweatband-padded forearms near
elbow.

The end result is that I find that I can best use a flat mirror when not
sitting upright...this one:
http://www.bikebandit.com/PartsBandit/product~pf_id~2514064~dept_id~829181.asp

The convex mirror hangs below my MTB grip end to scan left at 30-45
degrees, and is used *only* to alert me of motion in the blind spot that
occurs as vehicles approach and overtake me.
Riding alone in the wooded hills on a heavily loaded hybrid MTB geezer
bike, seems attracts a lot of attention from harassing pickup trucks and
Harleys...some of these yahoos have actually rubbed up against my roadside
pannier just to harass the weird homeless looking saddle bum...🙂 Most just
push in the clutch and gun their noisy engines.

Quoted message said:

The turning motion allows me to use a shorter mirror stalk (I make my
own) and thus a smaller mirror to get the same view. That is, it
allows the shorter stalk to give a clear line of sight past my hair,
shoulder, jacket, etc.

Yeah, I am constantly scanning like that, if only just to entertain
myself, I guess.

Soaring Turtle...🙂

Sheldon Brown said:

Frank Krygowsky said:

For me, that wouldn't work well.

I focus my eyeglass mirror so the rear is in focus when I turn my

head

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about 30 degrees - roughly the same angle I use to see the side

view

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mirror in my car. I'm using a reflex that is already there. I

have no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pain and no problems with this arrangement.

The turning motion allows me to use a shorter mirror stalk (I make

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

own) and thus a smaller mirror to get the same view. That is, it
allows the shorter stalk to give a clear line of sight past my

hair,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shoulder, jacket, etc.

This is all correct, except for the misuse of the word "focus." The
word you want is "aim" or "direct."

<sigh> Of course. When I wrote that, I was focusing on brevity,
rather than aiming or directing my prose at precise (if pedantic)
technical correctness.

But I'll forgive your blue pencil, on the assumption it was intended
mostly as a segue into:

Quoted message said:

This is one of the major advantages of head-mounted mirrors vs
handlebar-mounted ones. A handlebar mirror is so far from the user's

Quoted message said:

eye that it must be convex to give a useful field of view (and to
minimize shakiness.) With a convex mirror, you need to re-focus your

Quoted message said:

eyes to a much shorter distance when looking at the mirror, then back

to

Quoted message said:

infinity when you look ahead again.

Hey, aren't you supposed to italicize "vs."? ;-)

"GaryG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

yum said:

Any recommedation ?

Bike Peddler Take A Look

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/common/products/productdisplay2_v2.cfm?PRRFNBR=16494&S=16494,10778

Quoted message said:

Ditto this recommendation. The Take a Look is, by far, the best
glasses-mounted mirror that I've tried.

Frankly, I've forgotten to try this mirror. Thanks for the reminder...🙂

Quoted message said:

Here's a review of various mirror systems:

http://www.icebike.com/Equipment/cyclingmirrors.htm

--
~_-*
...G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists