Spoke Gouging

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out
to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Dear Wasatch,

Well, one incentive is the extra $1.10 per spoke . . .

P.T. Barnum

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:16:22 -0700, [email hidden] may have

Quoted message said:

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out
to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Dear Wasatch,

Well, one incentive is the extra $1.10 per spoke . . .

Where a little greed can raise the bottom line continually, excessive
greed raises it less than once per customer; some will leave without
the item(s), as did the OP.

Locally, most bike shops are getting right around a buck each (or a
little over) for small quantities of spokes. I don't have a problem
with that; I have a similar pricing system for what I sell. Buy lots,
get 'em cheaper. Charging a high one-at-a-time price when the
purchaser's buying a complete set is foolish; most customers will
treat it as an insult.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:16:22 -0700, [email hidden] may have

Quoted message said:

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out
to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Dear Wasatch,

Well, one incentive is the extra $1.10 per spoke . . .

Where a little greed can raise the bottom line continually, excessive
greed raises it less than once per customer; some will leave without
the item(s), as did the OP.

Locally, most bike shops are getting right around a buck each (or a
little over) for small quantities of spokes. I don't have a problem
with that; I have a similar pricing system for what I sell. Buy lots,
get 'em cheaper. Charging a high one-at-a-time price when the
purchaser's buying a complete set is foolish; most customers will
treat it as an insult.

Dear Werehatrack,

Yes, this is why baseball fans across the nation with season
tickets are looking forward eagerly to hefty discounts on
food and refreshments at the ballpark.

After all, the home-team vendors of hot-dogs, beer, and
soda-pop would never gouge those faithful who support their
local [fill-in-the-blank]--that would be a shabby trick to
play on loyal customers!

Indeed, the idea of making an extra [fill-in-the-amount] is
abhorrent to them.

Of course, if people are willing to pay more for the local
[fill-in-the-blank] ambience, atmosphere, experience . . .

Pretty much all bars are local, but I rarely hear of them
lowering prices for regulars.

Economics is hard, with all that flexible supply and demand
stuff. Let's go do some calculus.

Barbie

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:54:54 -0700, [email hidden] may have

Quoted message said:

Economics is hard, with all that flexible supply and demand
stuff. Let's go do some calculus.

Been there, didn't leave; I sell the T-shirt.

http://www.instantattitudes.com/shirts/t042.html

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out
to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

It could reasonably be a simple error. Various brands of
spokes are shipped/billed in each, 10, 20, 50, 72, 100, 500
and 1000 pieces from various sources. With or without
nipples. It can be daunting sometimes to know what you
actually paid per spoke.

Anyone in a small business can tell you horror stories at
the interface of employees and arithmetic - a deadly
combination with a non-printing calculator.

There really are $2 each spokes (Sapim XRay). That probably
wasn't what you wanted, though. Could be a communication
probem arising from an ridiculously but truly expensive spoke.

Did you phone the owner/manager? If this is your chosen LBS
and you want then to do better, I'd make the call. If you
don't intend to shop there again then don't.

It's kind to complain -shows you care - because it gives
management the opportunity to fix problems.

I sure could be wrong but I don't believe your LBS is
knowingly charging $120 for something you can get everywhere
else at $48~$55
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Werehatrack said:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:54:54 -0700, [email hidden] may have

Quoted message said:

Economics is hard, with all that flexible supply and demand
stuff. Let's go do some calculus.

Been there, didn't leave; I sell the T-shirt.

http://www.instantattitudes.com/shirts/t042.html

Dear Werehatrack,

$17 for a small t-shirt? Just as much as the extra-large
costs?

[That link again, for any Douglas Adams fans who missed it
and might as well be wandering around stark naked:

http://www.instantattitudes.com/shirts/t042.html

We now return to our regularly scheduled post.]

Why, Santa? Why would any t-shirt manufacturer want to gouge
a small customer like that?

Cindy Lou Who

A Muzi said:

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out
to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

It could reasonably be a simple error. Various brands of
spokes are shipped/billed in each, 10, 20, 50, 72, 100, 500
and 1000 pieces from various sources. With or without
nipples. It can be daunting sometimes to know what you
actually paid per spoke.

Anyone in a small business can tell you horror stories at
the interface of employees and arithmetic - a deadly
combination with a non-printing calculator.

There really are $2 each spokes (Sapim XRay). That probably
wasn't what you wanted, though. Could be a communication
probem arising from an ridiculously but truly expensive spoke.

Did you phone the owner/manager? If this is your chosen LBS
and you want then to do better, I'd make the call. If you
don't intend to shop there again then don't.

It's kind to complain -shows you care - because it gives
management the opportunity to fix problems.

I sure could be wrong but I don't believe your LBS is
knowingly charging $120 for something you can get everywhere
else at $48~$55

Dear Andy,

You may be right, but . . .

OfficeMax 6-foot USB 2.0 cable, $19.99:
http://www.officemax.com/max/solutions/product/prodBlock.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&expansionOID=-536891907&prodBlockOID=45825

Staples 6-foot USB 2.0 cable, $19.88:
http://www.staples.com/Catalog/Browse/Sku.asp?PageType=1&Sku=577153

WalMart 10-foot Belkin USB cable, $6.98:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=932031

Cyberguys 6-foot USB 2.0 cable, $2.19:
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?T1=131+1110

Computergate 6-foot USB 2.0 cable, $1.25:
http://www.computergate.com/products/item.cfm?prodcd=CUSAB062

Carl Fogel

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:15:19 -0700, [email hidden] may have

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:54:54 -0700, [email hidden] may have

Quoted message said:

Economics is hard, with all that flexible supply and demand
stuff. Let's go do some calculus.

Been there, didn't leave; I sell the T-shirt.

http://www.instantattitudes.com/shirts/t042.html

Dear Werehatrack,

$17 for a small t-shirt? Just as much as the extra-large
costs?

Yup. My cost for the two is exactly the same. In fact, since I
usually buy the XL and L in case lots, but the S in dozens, I
generally get the XL and L *cheaper* than the S.

Quoted message said:

Why, Santa? Why would any t-shirt manufacturer want to gouge
a small customer like that?

Worse yet, the even-smaller baby-doll version that I use for one of my
other shirts costs twice as much as an XL T-shirt, and it weighs less
than half as much.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

A possibility, to give the shop the benefit of the doubt, was that the
sales person was an inexpereinced young, new employee. He/She saw the
price for one spoke, what they usually sell, and simply multiplied. He
didn't know, and wasn't given instructions by the owner/manager about
how to sell a whole package. Young employees at bike shops often make
mistakes or may have the wrong attitude. This is a common, but hard to
address problem. Young kids who love racing always want to work at bike
shops. Unfortunately, they work the same way as they race on the
weekend crit, recklessly. You don't have many Sheldon Brown's, Mike
J's, Peter C's, Andrew M's, etc working behind the counter at bike
shops around the USA. Most shops have minimum wage college students who
are thankful to be surrounded by bikes, who show off their shaved legs
and brag about thier exploits.

Andres

Quoted message said:

--

Let the bridges I burn light my way...

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out
to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Why indeed. Interesting that we are cheaper than REI for spokes. We
charge $.60 per for 14/15s.
Why does it seem like some bike shops are clueless? Why does it seem
that some retail places, put type here, are clueless. Who knows.

Werehatrack said:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:16:22 -0700, [email hidden] may have

Quoted message said:

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out
to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

\

Where a little greed can raise the bottom line continually, excessive
greed raises it less than once per customer; some will leave without
the item(s), as did the OP.

Locally, most bike shops are getting right around a buck each (or a
little over) for small quantities of spokes. I don't have a problem
with that; I have a similar pricing system for what I sell. Buy lots,
get 'em cheaper. Charging a high one-at-a-time price when the
purchaser's buying a complete set is foolish; most customers will
treat it as an insult.

Don't get this. Look at the margin you use, apply that to everything,
charge that. We do that for spokes, chains, etc. Our problem is MO
giving stuff away, not overchargonmg. Why $1 per spoke? No supplier
charges that much. QBP, one of the highest, are about $.50 per spoke.

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 07:14:50 -0700, Qui Si Parla Campagnolo

may have said:

Werehatrack said:

Locally, most bike shops are getting right around a buck each (or a
little over) for small quantities of spokes. I don't have a problem
with that; I have a similar pricing system for what I sell. Buy lots,
get 'em cheaper. Charging a high one-at-a-time price when the
purchaser's buying a complete set is foolish; most customers will
treat it as an insult.

Don't get this. Look at the margin you use, apply that to everything,
charge that. We do that for spokes, chains, etc. Our problem is MO
giving stuff away, not overchargonmg. Why $1 per spoke? No supplier
charges that much. QBP, one of the highest, are about $.50 per spoke.

There is a theory of business which holds that each transaction has
certain inherent costs; it takes (for example) nearly the same effort
to sell a $50 box of 100 spokes as a single spoke. In recognition of
this, business owners who believe that each sale should at least cover
its own costs will typically have a sliding scale of spoke (or
whatever the item may be) prices which charges more for a single unit
than for a large number. One place where the justification for this
is often brought home to shop owners is when they look at a credit
card transaction closout for a given day, and see that for a sale of
$3, the transaction item fee and percentage ate 25% of the sale, and
essentially all of the profit.

Some business people don't see a need to have a quantity discount
structure for such items, and will simply charge a flat-markup rate
regardless. That's just another business decision to make, and every
shop owner has to evaluate the issues for their own particular
situation. I can see both sides of the question, and each has its
points; as long as I'm not being asked to pay truly exorbitant prices
for such bits, I'm not offended. On the other hand, $1.75 for one
relatively ordinary spoke is just too much; that's the Super Bowl
Concession Stand theory of retail, and deserves the disdain that it
will get.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo said:

Werehatrack wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Locally, most bike shops are getting right around a buck each (or a
little over) for small quantities of spokes. I don't have a problem
with that; I have a similar pricing system for what I sell. Buy lots,
get 'em cheaper. Charging a high one-at-a-time price when the
purchaser's buying a complete set is foolish; most customers will
treat it as an insult.

Don't get this. Look at the margin you use, apply that to everything,
charge that. We do that for spokes, chains, etc. Our problem is MO
giving stuff away, not overchargonmg. Why $1 per spoke? No supplier
charges that much. QBP, one of the highest, are about $.50 per spoke.

I can see charging a couple bucks for a SINGLE spoke due to the labor
involved in identifying, retrieving and selling it. But there should
be a VERY steep quantity discount as the quantity goes up... something
like:

Qty Price
1 $2.00
2 $1.50
3 $1.25
4 $1.10
5-10 $1.00
11-25 $0.85
26+ $0.75

.... or something similar. The cost of the item is only one variable
in determining what the retail cost should be. Labor for selling one
or fifty spokes is pretty much the same. Other factors like carrying
costs and stocking charges pretty much follow quantity in a linear
fashion.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Any chance that REI has *become* clueless? I remember when I gladly spent
money at Jim and Tim's 'The Co-op' and eagerly anticipated my refund every
year. Then the catalogue was half a dozen mimeo'd sheets of real deals.
Now its just more expensive slick 'extreme' kid gear.

"Qui Si Parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1110031502.09962c4620e2f071d4c194007578793d@teranews...

Quoted message said:

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out to
be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Why indeed. Interesting that we are cheaper than REI for spokes. We charge
$.60 per for 14/15s.
Why does it seem like some bike shops are clueless? Why does it seem that
some retail places, put type here, are clueless. Who knows.

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out
to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

I was charged 10UKP (say $19) for 32 of the same spokes (288mm) last
week, but they know me quite well. They just take them out of the
workshop anyway and I suppose any loss is offset by whatever they charge
other people for wheelbuilds.

There might be a $/SFr exchange rate problem too.

Mark Hickey said:

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo said:

Werehatrack wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Locally, most bike shops are getting right around a buck each (or a
little over) for small quantities of spokes. I don't have a problem
with that; I have a similar pricing system for what I sell. Buy lots,
get 'em cheaper. Charging a high one-at-a-time price when the
purchaser's buying a complete set is foolish; most customers will
treat it as an insult.

Don't get this. Look at the margin you use, apply that to everything,
charge that. We do that for spokes, chains, etc. Our problem is MO
giving stuff away, not overchargonmg. Why $1 per spoke? No supplier
charges that much. QBP, one of the highest, are about $.50 per spoke.

I can see charging a couple bucks for a SINGLE spoke due to the labor
involved in identifying, retrieving and selling it. But there should
be a VERY steep quantity discount as the quantity goes up... something
like:

Qty Price
1 $2.00
2 $1.50
3 $1.25
4 $1.10
5-10 $1.00
11-25 $0.85
26+ $0.75

... or something similar. The cost of the item is only one variable
in determining what the retail cost should be. Labor for selling one
or fifty spokes is pretty much the same. Other factors like carrying
costs and stocking charges pretty much follow quantity in a linear
fashion.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

So if one orders 26+ Habanero frames, the price will drop to $260.63/each?

--
Tom Sherman - Earth

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:06:57 -0600, Werehatrack <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:54:54 -0700, [email hidden] may have

Quoted message said:

Economics is hard, with all that flexible supply and demand
stuff. Let's go do some calculus.

Been there, didn't leave; I sell the T-shirt.

http://www.instantattitudes.com/shirts/t042.html

That is good.

Gotta get one.

Ron

Doug Huffman said:

Any chance that REI has *become* clueless? I remember when I gladly spent
money at Jim and Tim's 'The Co-op' and eagerly anticipated my refund every
year. Then the catalogue was half a dozen mimeo'd sheets of real deals.
Now its just more expensive slick 'extreme' kid gear.

I don't think there clueless yet... REI's bike shop seems to be pretty
fair for small stuff. When I bought my headset there, they threw in 5
spacers for free(normally $0.75 each), other shops wanted ~2.50 a
spacer. They can probably afford to give better prices on small stuff
because the rest of the store offsets any low margins they make in the
bike shop.
I am really disappointed at the quality of the bike shops in my area. We
have too many "Pro" shops that have a ton of high $$ stuff, but don't
have any idea how to work on something over two years old. I come in
with my bike and they tell me how crappy it is and that they can set me
up with a new one.

It's the small stuff that makes customers come back. IMHO

--

Let the bridges I burn light my way...

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo said:

Why indeed. Interesting that we are cheaper than REI for spokes. We
charge $.60 per for 14/15s.
Why does it seem like some bike shops are clueless? Why does it seem
that some retail places, put type here, are clueless. Who knows.

I should just move to Boulder....
--

Let the bridges I burn light my way...