How gut bacteria escape detection

No question one wants the "good bacteria" in the gut, but this report
makes it seem like any bacterium or virus is going to get slammed by
the "immune system." In reality, there are more bacteria cells than
human cells in the human body. In mice, and probably mammals in
general, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of different kinds of
one class of virus (retroviruses). The key question is how do various
things prompt an "autoimmune resposnse," and here the evidence points
to arachidonic acid excess, which is why the usual crowd is hawking
fish oil - it interferes with arachidonic acid metabolism (though not
without charging a very high price - lipid peroxidation). Instead, if
you avoid more than trace amounts of polyunsaturated fatty acids, you
probably won't have to worry about any of this kind of thing.

"montygram" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No question one wants the "good bacteria" in the gut, but this report
makes it seem like any bacterium or virus is going to get slammed by
the "immune system." In reality, there are more bacteria cells than
human cells in the human body. In mice, and probably mammals in
general, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of different kinds of
one class of virus (retroviruses). The key question is how do various
things prompt an "autoimmune resposnse," and here the evidence points
to arachidonic acid excess, which is why the usual crowd is hawking

Learn how to read please. It does not mention "autoimmune". It mentions an
immune response that is lacking against bacteria present in the gut.

Quoted message said:

fish oil - it interferes with arachidonic acid metabolism (though not
without charging a very high price - lipid peroxidation). Instead, if
you avoid more than trace amounts of polyunsaturated fatty acids, you
probably won't have to worry about any of this kind of thing.

What in the world are you talking about? Where is AA or polyunsaturated fats
mentioned in this article?
Get a grip on yourself man. You sound like a broken record.

"Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"montygram" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No question one wants the "good bacteria" in the gut, but this report
makes it seem like any bacterium or virus is going to get slammed by
the "immune system." In reality, there are more bacteria cells than
human cells in the human body. In mice, and probably mammals in
general, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of different kinds of
one class of virus (retroviruses). The key question is how do various
things prompt an "autoimmune resposnse," and here the evidence points
to arachidonic acid excess, which is why the usual crowd is hawking

Learn how to read please. It does not mention "autoimmune". It mentions an
immune response that is lacking against bacteria present in the gut.

Quoted message said:

fish oil - it interferes with arachidonic acid metabolism (though not
without charging a very high price - lipid peroxidation). Instead, if
you avoid more than trace amounts of polyunsaturated fatty acids, you
probably won't have to worry about any of this kind of thing.

What in the world are you talking about? Where is AA or polyunsaturated

fats

Quoted message said:

mentioned in this article?
Get a grip on yourself man. You sound like a broken record.

Yeah, come'on, everyone know that Al Qaeda is behind this whole arachadonic
acid thing ;-0
EVERY FREAKIN' SINGLE problem in the world is caused by lipid peroxidation,
according to monty.
When all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.

--
Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries,
is not 'Eureka!' ('I found it!'😉, but rather 'hmm....that's funny...'"
- Isaac Asimov

Interesting stuff.

Kinda sad that the first reaction of the "scientist" is to suggest
scenarios where they can create "probiotics" or "probiotic processes"
that can be sold and marketted as treatments. Sounds more like a
marketer than a scientist.

They should be considering what diets encourage and/or discourage the
right balance of good bacteria in the gut. Treat the problem at its
source, eh?

TC

Roman Bystrianyk said:

http://www.healthsentinel.com/news.php?event=news_print_list_item&id=692

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"How gut bacteria escape detection", BBC News, March 21, 2005,
Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4358285.stm

Bacteria living in the human intestine escape detection by the immune
system by disguising themselves as gut cells, researchers say.

A US team examined bacteria from the genus Bacteroides - the most
commonly found bacteria in the human gut.

They found the bacteria wrap themselves in a sugar substance derived
from molecules taken from the surface of cells in the gut.

Details of the Harvard Medical School research are in the journal
Science.

This form of molecular mimicry may help to explain how humans

tolerate

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the presence of billions of bacteria in the gut without launching an
immune system attack.

The Harvard team found that Bacteroides bacteria coat themselves with

a

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form of fucose, a molecule which is abundant on the surface of
intestinal epithelial cells.

Previous research has shown that Bacteroides can stimulate intestinal
epithelial cells to produce molecules such as fucose.

It now seems that the bacteria are then able to incorporate this
molecule in a slightly modified form directly into their own cells.

Digestive role

Bacteroides play a crucial role in the digestive process, helping to
break down food products and supplying some vitamins and other
nutrients that we cannot make ourselves.

Researcher Dr Laurie Comstock told the BBC News website: "Compared to
the wealth of knowledge regarding mechanisms used by bacterial
pathogens to cause disease, relatively little is known about how the
trillions of bacteria in the mammalian intestine establish and

maintain

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beneficial relationships with the host.

"It is extremely important that the resident bacteria in our

intestine

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do not generate a deleterious immune response.

"Bacteroides are able to degrade a great variety of plant
polysaccharides so that the host is able to use them for energy.

"Many of these plant polysaccharides could not be used by the host
without the aid of the bacteria."

Dr Alastair Forbes, a consultant gastroenterologist at St Mark's
Hospital, London, said the findings were interesting.

He said it was possible they could be used in the long-term to

develop

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new forms of probiotic treatment for gastrointestinal disorders.

Probiotics, preparations containing beneficial bacteria, have already
been used to treat conditions such as ulcerative colitis and

pouchitis.

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"The use of probiotics has had some success, but their use is made
difficult by the fact that the bugs tend not to persist in the gut,

and

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treatments have to be given week after week," Dr Forbes said.

"If there was some way of modifying bacteria so they could continue

to

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infect the gut, but remain safe, that would be useful."

Dr Forbes said scientists were also working on prebiotic treatments,
which provide nutrients to encourage the growth of certain bacteria.

However, he said knowledge about the bacteria which live in the gut

was

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still relatively limited.

It is estimated that only about 20-30% of the bacteria that inhibit

the

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gut have been identified.

What I stated is relevant to the subject of health, whereas they simply
restated the obvious. They have been telling us that a cure for cancer
would be had by 1980, that an AIDS vaccine would be available around
1985, etc. Now they are saying people are going to begin to die
sooner, and that an Alzheimer's epidemic is on the horizon. I am
explaining how to avoid those things. If they knew what role AA
metabolites, lipid peroxidation, etc. play in various "pathologies" I
would never have to post here. You may be an ignoramus, but I'm
writing this for those who are not.

"montygram" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What I stated is relevant to the subject of health, whereas they simply
restated the obvious. They have been telling us that a cure for cancer
would be had by 1980, that an AIDS vaccine would be available around
1985, etc. Now they are saying people are going to begin to die
sooner, and that an Alzheimer's epidemic is on the horizon.

Those were all funding ploys in the hope that it actually might happen.

I am

Quoted message said:

explaining how to avoid those things. If they knew what role AA
metabolites, lipid peroxidation, etc. play in various "pathologies" I
would never have to post here. You may be an ignoramus, but I'm
writing this for those who are not.

Try taking a basic course on pathology. Oxidative stress is present
everywhere, in every tissue and cell in the human body. Oxygen is essential
for life and the electron transport creats highly reactive free radial
oxygen groups. You don't need to eat anything oxidized to have that happen.
Cells that are damaged by whatever mechanism you can think of can not
withstand the oxidative stress and will eventually succumb to it and die. It
is one of the last stages of cell death.
You can name any and all diseases known to man to be involved with cellular
damage and death to be connected to lipid peroxidation.
The bodies own immune defense against microorganism uses oxidative stress
directed against the organisms.
If you can come up with specific intervental treatments that have proven to
work on any of those topics then fine. I know a few but then they are few
and far between.
I don't have any problems you telling people to cut out all the oxidized
butter with a knife or to eat coconuts for the next twenty years.

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