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"Melb will need a congestion charge"

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Australia and New Zealand
Published
27 March 2005
Last activity
29 March 2005
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flyingdutch
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  1. The little paper
    New push for city congestion levy
    By Andrew West
    26mar05

    A LONDON-style congestion charge to cut traffic in choked areas of Australia's biggest cities is back on the agenda after a report for a key business group urged state governments to introduce such a levy.

    The report, Reforming and Restoring Australia's Infrastructure, commissioned by the Business Council of Australia, says introducing some form of fee on vehicles entering the central business districts and surrounding neighbourhoods could dramatically ease urban congestion.

    The report argues that in Melbourne, for example, a congestion charge could cut the number of vehicles on the road and increase the average speed to 22.7km/h, faster than motorists now travel.

    "If a congestion charge is imposed on the Melbourne CBD, then the congested vehicle hours return to more acceptable levels, while the average travel speed actually increases to higher than 2001 levels," it says.

    The report estimates that urban road congestion costs Australia around $16 billion a year and predicts that in Melbourne, it will double by 2021.

    It also forecasts average travel speeds across Melbourne will fall from 19.7km/h to 15.2km/h. In London, the metropolitan authority levies a daily pound stg. 5 ($12) fee on cars entering the city centre. It has cut traffic by 15per cent and congestion by 30 per cent.

    But such levies are contentious in Australia, and a spokeswoman for Victorian Transport Minister Peter Batchelor said: "There are no plans to introduce any such tax. The Government has made it clear that it will not be tolling existing roads."

    But during last year's Melbourne local government elections, Mr Batchelor conceded there would eventually be a debate about introducing a congestion charge.
    )http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/15/1039656296689.html)

    In Sydney, Lord Mayor Clover Moore said she did not have the power to introduce such a toll and would not consider it until the state Government committed itself to improving public transport within a 10km radius of the CBD.

    "At the moment, I prefer the carrot, not the stick to ease the city's congestion," she said.

    The BCA report was written by Rod Sims, a principal of Port Jackson Partners consultancy and a former deputy secretary in the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.

    His report used modelling undertaken by the Victorian Department of Infrastructure, but the department has not endorsed a congestion charge.

    The report does not prescribe a specific congestion charge, but suggests a hefty inner-city parking levy in Melbourne.

    "In the inner metropolitan area, the average travel speed increases significantly with the introduction of an inner-city parking charge," it says.

    "While no one wants to pay a congestion charge, each individual's stance will depend on how they value their time otherwise lost in traffic congestion.

    The report says that in inner metropolitan areas, "charges must be an important part of the traffic management mix. Not to utilise them is to condemn inner-city areas to eventual gridlock at certain times."

    Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
    wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike 🙄

  2. flyingdutch said:

    The little paper
    New push for city congestion levy


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
    wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike
    🙄

    I'd rather see a congestion charge than not - unless it reduced public
    transport spending. Anything that makes people think twice about driving
    into the CBD is cool with me. It should encourage PT/bike/foot travel
    and reduce the number of people heading into the city because <insert
    large chain store here> is bigger than their nearby suburban one.
    Reduce the amount of people heading into the CBD and you also reduce the
    amount driving through all the 'burbs to get there.

    hippy
    - heading to cambersmell for pancakes (food therapy 🙂)

  3. flyingdutch said:

    The little paper
    New push for city congestion levy
    By Andrew West
    26mar05

    A LONDON-style congestion charge to cut traffic in choked areas of
    Australia's biggest cities is back on the agenda after a report for a
    key business group urged state governments to introduce such a levy.

    The report, Reforming and Restoring Australia's Infrastructure,
    commissioned by the Business Council of Australia, says introducing
    some form of fee on vehicles entering the central business districts
    and surrounding neighbourhoods could dramatically ease urban
    congestion.

    The report argues that in Melbourne, for example, a congestion charge
    could cut the number of vehicles on the road and increase the average
    speed to 22.7km/h, faster than motorists now travel.

    "If a congestion charge is imposed on the Melbourne CBD, then the
    congested vehicle hours return to more acceptable levels, while the
    average travel speed actually increases to higher than 2001 levels," it
    says.

    The report estimates that urban road congestion costs Australia around
    $16 billion a year and predicts that in Melbourne, it will double by
    2021.

    It also forecasts average travel speeds across Melbourne will fall from
    19.7km/h to 15.2km/h. In London, the metropolitan authority levies a
    daily pound stg. 5 ($12) fee on cars entering the city centre. It has
    cut traffic by 15per cent and congestion by 30 per cent.

    But such levies are contentious in Australia, and a spokeswoman for
    Victorian Transport Minister Peter Batchelor said: "There are no plans
    to introduce any such tax. The Government has made it clear that it
    will not be tolling existing roads."

    But during last year's Melbourne local government elections, Mr
    Batchelor conceded there would eventually be a debate about introducing
    a congestion charge.
    )http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/15/1039656296689.html)

    In Sydney, Lord Mayor Clover Moore said she did not have the power to
    introduce such a toll and would not consider it until the state
    Government committed itself to improving public transport within a 10km
    radius of the CBD.

    "At the moment, I prefer the carrot, not the stick to ease the city's
    congestion," she said.

    The BCA report was written by Rod Sims, a principal of Port Jackson
    Partners consultancy and a former deputy secretary in the Department of
    Prime Minister and Cabinet.

    His report used modelling undertaken by the Victorian Department of
    Infrastructure, but the department has not endorsed a congestion
    charge.

    The report does not prescribe a specific congestion charge, but
    suggests a hefty inner-city parking levy in Melbourne.

    "In the inner metropolitan area, the average travel speed increases
    significantly with the introduction of an inner-city parking charge,"
    it says.

    "While no one wants to pay a congestion charge, each individual's
    stance will depend on how they value their time otherwise lost in
    traffic congestion.

    The report says that in inner metropolitan areas, "charges must be an
    important part of the traffic management mix. Not to utilise them is to
    condemn inner-city areas to eventual gridlock at certain times."

    Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
    wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike
    🙄


    Bloody fools. Never works. The lack of viable alternatives is why
    people use cars in the first place, speeding them up will simply
    encourage more, like freeways, they never work either. If we had a
    public transport system that wasn't stuck in the 19th century we
    wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
    R.

  4. Ray Peace said:

    Bloody fools. Never works. The lack of viable alternatives is why
    people use cars in the first place, speeding them up will simply
    encourage more, like freeways, they never work either. If we had a
    public transport system that wasn't stuck in the 19th century we
    wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
    R.

    Never?
    think London might disagree with you there. 20% reduction in vehicles and 30% increase in trip speeds, and MORE people going into their centre!
    Obviously all the money they collect should be spent on PT. making it free would be even better. they currently spend more on collecting fares and fining people than they collect 🙄

  5. flyingdutch <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:


    <big snip>

    Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
    wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike
    🙄

    Hold on a sec though. Due to the very poor design of many of our cities
    (lack of radial and link roads and rail) there is little choice but to
    transit through the CBD (this is particularly the case in Brisbane).
    That means that all traffic is being channeled to a very constricted
    area and no one will have a real choice of routes. The ludicrous tunnel
    idea will not fix that.

    Before congestion charging will work they really need to address the
    radial road issue. Which will cost bucket loads ($3.5mill/km) It would
    also help PT by allowing direct node to node transit (and the bike cycle
    commuter as well). BTW Canberra is the only place in Australia to
    really have this sorted.

    If you don't sort radials then traffic will attempt to avoid the CBD by
    "rat-running" down local streets.

    It would also be worth reading some of the English traffic journals.
    While London city has been sorted the other councils around it are
    screaming blue murder due to the congestion it's causing in their areas.

    Of course if is was the BCA I would support it since it would speed my
    travel in the limousine between the office and one's home or on those
    dreadful last minute overseas consultation visits ensure that one could
    relax briefly with one's peers in the Quantas Club (Gold of course).

    Check Manhattan some time. Pedestrians, buses, subways, taxis, cycle
    couriers (but not commuters) and the very seriously rich who can afford
    a chauffeur and could get clearance for the helicopter.

    Cheers

    Brett

  6. On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 at 21:51 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

    Quoted message said:

    - heading to cambersmell for pancakes (food therapy 🙂)

    Yes. We did notice your distinct absense. I take it the SS was too
    drunk to ride straight?

    --
    TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
    Hell - n. The current residence of Mr. Noah Webster, Lexicographer.
    (Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_)

  7. hippy said:
    flyingdutch said:

    The little paper
    New push for city congestion levy


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
    wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike
    🙄

    I'd rather see a congestion charge than not - unless it reduced public
    transport spending. Anything that makes people think twice about driving
    into the CBD is cool with me. It should encourage PT/bike/foot travel
    and reduce the number of people heading into the city because <insert
    large chain store here> is bigger than their nearby suburban one.
    Reduce the amount of people heading into the CBD and you also reduce the
    amount driving through all the 'burbs to get there.

    hippy
    - heading to cambersmell for pancakes (food therapy 🙂)

    Auckland (NZ) is thinking seriously of reducing the size of parking spaces
    in the CBD so that they are too small for SUV's aka Toorak (Remuera)
    Tractors.

    Peter

    --
    If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
    good -- will ever happen to you.

  8. Ray Peace said:

    If we had a public transport system that wasn't stuck in the 19th century
    we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

    YOU have a 19th century public transport system!?

    You've obviously never tried trains in Sydney.
    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>

  9. Brett said:

    Hold on a sec though. Due to the very poor design of many of our cities
    (lack of radial and link roads and rail) there is little choice but to
    transit through the CBD (this is particularly the case in Brisbane).

    Cheap [censored] {:-). Pay the toll. The last time I went to Brisbane, we
    undertook this enormous big circle right around the Brisbane Metro. I
    can remember it well "What, another %$%$% toll?"

  10. flyingdutch said:

    think London might disagree with you there. 20% reduction in vehicles
    and 30% increase in trip speeds, and MORE people going into their
    centre!

    i wonder if they are abusing the statistics here a little bit.

    there have been extensive road works throughout central london over the last few years.
    not to mention that the central line (tube/underground train) was out for repairs there for a while.

    comparing traffic across summer to winter stats might also be misleading too...

    traffic in winter is usually much worse that it is in summer.
    certainly in central london where i lived and along my commute.
    its just not sane to own a car in london... parking fines are insane.

    there are a number of funky bike shops near where i lived.
    my favourite was on Lambs Conduit (thats the name of the road), '
    just down from a nice pub called the 'Lamb' =)
    do a good line in chocolate stout...

    cheers,

    kim

  11. Brett said:

    Before congestion charging will work they really need to address the
    radial road issue. Which will cost bucket loads ($3.5mill/km) It would
    also help PT by allowing direct node to node transit (and the bike cycle
    commuter as well). BTW Canberra is the only place in Australia to
    really have this sorted.

    does adelaide not fit this model too?
    it does look a bit crazy on the map, but a least you don't have to go through the city...

    Quoted message said:

    If you don't sort radials then traffic will attempt to avoid the CBD by
    "rat-running" down local streets.

    you're never going to aviod that, folks will always want to take short cuts...

    Quoted message said:

    It would also be worth reading some of the English traffic journals.
    While London city has been sorted the other councils around it are
    screaming blue murder due to the congestion it's causing in their areas.

    north london sux rather badly, but much of south londons roads are better.
    not really sure about east or west outside of zone 2 tho.
    there are lots of areas in inner london that go from 2 lanes to 1 lane
    and back again in a hundred yards... not to mention parked cars etc, etc
    buses overtaking and rubbish trucks doing the rounds at peak hour.
    spent a lot of time commuting by bus and reading or 'puting.

    cheers,

    kim

  12. kim said:


    there are a number of funky bike shops near where i lived.
    my favourite was on Lambs Conduit (thats the name of the road), '
    just down from a nice pub called the 'Lamb' =)
    do a good line in chocolate stout...

    cheers,

    kim

    'Chocolate stout'

    There IS a god!!!

    Hippy. you gotta get some of this elixir and mail it back! 😄

  13. flyingdutch said:
    kim said:

    there are a number of funky bike shops near where i lived.
    my favourite was on Lambs Conduit (thats the name of the road), '
    just down from a nice pub called the 'Lamb' =)
    do a good line in chocolate stout...

    'Chocolate stout'
    There IS a god!!!
    Hippy. you gotta get some of this elixir and mail it back! 😄

    Youngs Double Chocolate Stout:
    http://www.youngs.co.uk/htmldocs/products/products.asp?SelectedID=12

    Brooklyn Black Choc Stout (8.3%):
    http://www.bottledbeer.co.uk/index.html?beerid=482

    The SuzyJ (DIY 🙂) option:
    http://www.diamalt.co.uk/masterclass.htm

    and the accompaniment:
    http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=367649

    What's the cheapest way to send cases of beer from EU to Oz?

    hippy

  14. hippy said:
    flyingdutch said:
    kim said:

    there are a number of funky bike shops near where i lived.
    my favourite was on Lambs Conduit (thats the name of the road), '
    just down from a nice pub called the 'Lamb' =)
    do a good line in chocolate stout...

    'Chocolate stout'
    There IS a god!!!
    Hippy. you gotta get some of this elixir and mail it back! 😄

    Youngs Double Chocolate Stout:
    http://www.youngs.co.uk/htmldocs/products/products.asp?SelectedID=12

    8<

    Quoted message said:

    and the accompaniment:
    http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=367649

    hmmmmm jolt ... no ... must re .. sist!

    kim
    ~ growing weaker by the minute

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