corned beef and cabbage

Quoted message said:

I am making cornbeef and cabbage even as a right this. I don't do
anything special, throw in the brisket, cabbage, potatoes, celery,
carrots, bring to boil then simmer. Is there anything a little more
imaginative in the way of spices or vegetables that I could add to
make things more interesting

Bay leaves and peppercorns spring to mind. Parsnips, maybe?

Jill

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I am making cornbeef and cabbage even as a right this.

What was wrong with it?

Quoted message said:

I am making cornbeef and cabbage even as a right this. I don't do
anything special, throw in the brisket, cabbage, potatoes, celery,
carrots, bring to boil then simmer. Is there anything a little more
imaginative in the way of spices or vegetables that I could add to
make things more interesting

You don't mean to say that you plan to cook the cabbage, potatoes,
celery (?) and carrots as long as you're cooking the brisket, do you?
If so, put down that mouse and march right back out to the kitchen and
fish the veggies out of the pot. Then check back for further
directions.... ;-) -aem

aem said:

Quoted message said:

I am making cornbeef and cabbage even as a right this. I don't do
anything special, throw in the brisket, cabbage, potatoes, celery,
carrots, bring to boil then simmer. Is there anything a little more
imaginative in the way of spices or vegetables that I could add to
make things more interesting

You don't mean to say that you plan to cook the cabbage, potatoes,
celery (?) and carrots as long as you're cooking the brisket, do you?
If so, put down that mouse and march right back out to the kitchen and
fish the veggies out of the pot. Then check back for further
directions.... ;-) -aem

Thanks for catching that. I skimmed over the post without realizing it was
all tossed in the pot at (apparently) the same time.

Jill

Quoted message said:

You don't mean to say that you plan to cook the
cabbage, potatoes, celery (?) and carrots as long
as you're cooking the brisket, do you?
If so . . .

I find it works well enough to start the spice bag out in cold water;
once it's boiling add the brisket; once it's back to a boil, add the
rest, in any order you please. Reduce to a simmer and keep it there.

So, yes: although it's important to get the brisket boiling for a
minute or two by itself, the vegetables can all simmer in the pot with
it for the whole two hours; they come out tender and appealing. I
don't like the idea of timing the various vegetable additives by
different clocks.

Neil

Neil said:

Quoted message said:

You don't mean to say that you plan to cook the
cabbage, potatoes, celery (?) and carrots as long
as you're cooking the brisket, do you?
If so . . .

I find it works well enough to start the spice bag out in cold water;
once it's boiling add the brisket; once it's back to a boil, add the
rest, in any order you please. Reduce to a simmer and keep it there.

So, yes: although it's important to get the brisket boiling for a
minute or two by itself, the vegetables can all simmer in the pot

with

Quoted message said:

it for the whole two hours; they come out tender and appealing. I
don't like the idea of timing the various vegetable additives by
different clocks.

To each his own. After two hours of simmering, potatoes have fallen
apart, carrots are like mush and cabbage is disgusting. That's how
they did "New England Boiled Dinner" at school and it kept me from even
trying corned beef and cabbage for many years.

Instead, I put the potatoes in twenty minutes before the brisket is
done simmering, the carrots five to ten minutes later. When I have
removed the brisket, spread it with mustardy glaze and put it in the
oven, I then put cabbage wedges in the simmering liquid for five
minutes, then remove them to another pot where they finish with butter
and a touch of soy sauce. -aem

On Sat 02 Apr 2005 04:43:35p, Neil wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You don't mean to say that you plan to cook the
cabbage, potatoes, celery (?) and carrots as long
as you're cooking the brisket, do you?
If so . . .

I find it works well enough to start the spice bag out in cold water;
once it's boiling add the brisket; once it's back to a boil, add the
rest, in any order you please. Reduce to a simmer and keep it there.

So, yes: although it's important to get the brisket boiling for a
minute or two by itself, the vegetables can all simmer in the pot with
it for the whole two hours; they come out tender and appealing. I
don't like the idea of timing the various vegetable additives by
different clocks.

Neil

Well, as they say, it takes all kinds, and I'm definitely over the edge. I
prefer cooking corned beef or brisket until it's perfectly done, then cool
and store in its own liquid. The next day I slice the meat cold to get
perfect slices, arrange in deep platter and moisten well with the cooking
liquid. Meanwhile, I cook each of the vegetables separately (potato,
carrot, onion, rutabaga, parsnip, and cabbage)in some of the cooking liquid
until each has reached it's perfect degree of doneness. At the same time I
gently reheat the sliced meat in the oven. Combine meat and all vegetables
on a large platter, brush all the vegetables with melted butter, and
garnish with fresh chopped parsley.

Call me sick...I like it this way.

--
Wayne Boatwright
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

Wayne Boatwright said:

Well, as they say, it takes all kinds, and I'm definitely over the

edge. I

Quoted message said:

prefer cooking corned beef or brisket until it's perfectly done, then

cool

Quoted message said:

and store in its own liquid. The next day I slice the meat cold to

get

Quoted message said:

perfect slices, arrange in deep platter and moisten well with the

cooking

Quoted message said:

liquid. Meanwhile, I cook each of the vegetables separately (potato,

Quoted message said:

carrot, onion, rutabaga, parsnip, and cabbage)in some of the cooking

liquid

Quoted message said:

until each has reached it's perfect degree of doneness. At the same

time I

Quoted message said:

gently reheat the sliced meat in the oven. Combine meat and all

vegetables

Quoted message said:

on a large platter, brush all the vegetables with melted butter, and
garnish with fresh chopped parsley.

Call me sick...I like it this way.

I would like that, too. What I was reacting to was the veggies boiled
for two hours. -aem

Quoted message said:

I am making cornbeef and cabbage even as a right this. I don't do
anything special, throw in the brisket, cabbage, potatoes, celery,
carrots, bring to boil then simmer. Is there anything a little more
imaginative in the way of spices or vegetables that I could add to make
things more interesting

You want imaginative and interesting? Okay, as others have mentioned, FIRST,
take the veggies out and don't put them back in until the meat has almost
finished cooking. But here's where I get imaginative and interesting: Add
star anise, ginger, garlic, a cinnamon stick, and some sliced onions to the
pot. After simmering for a couple hours (skimming to remove any protein
froth which might rise to the surface), remove and slice the meat, strain
the broth (discard the solids), then add all the vegetables and meat back
into the broth. Simmer GENTLY until the vegetables are cooked through. When
the vegetables are cooked, add some fish sauce. Serve in bowls. As
condiments, provide cilantro, bean sprouts, sliced scallions, hoisin sauce,
chile-garlic paste, mustard, and lime wedges.

There you have it: Hanoi-style New England Boiled Dinner!

Bob

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Sat 02 Apr 2005 04:43:35p

Well, as they say, it takes all kinds, and I'm definitely over the

edge. I

Quoted message said:

prefer cooking corned beef or brisket until it's perfectly done, then

cool

Quoted message said:

and store in its own liquid. The next day I slice the meat cold to

get

Quoted message said:

perfect slices, arrange in deep platter and moisten well with the

cooking

Quoted message said:

liquid. Meanwhile, I cook each of the vegetables separately (potato,

Quoted message said:

carrot, onion, rutabaga, parsnip, and cabbage)in some of the cooking

liquid

Quoted message said:

until each has reached it's perfect degree of doneness. At the same

time I

Quoted message said:

gently reheat the sliced meat in the oven. Combine meat and all

vegetables

Quoted message said:

on a large platter, brush all the vegetables with melted butter, and
garnish with fresh chopped parsley.

Call me sick...I like it this way.

Terrific technique, Wayne. Perfect slices and perfectly done
vegetables.

That way results in corned beef dinner so much better than the corned
beef dinners I had growing up. The meat itself was great (no
nitrites/nitrates used in the curing) but the potatoes and
vegetables.....it was years before I discovered how good cabbage can
be.

Mac

On Sat 02 Apr 2005 05:50:54p, aem wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

Well, as they say, it takes all kinds, and I'm definitely over the
edge. I prefer cooking corned beef or brisket until it's perfectly
done, then cool and store in its own liquid. The next day I slice the
meat cold to get perfect slices, arrange in deep platter and moisten
well with the cooking liquid. Meanwhile, I cook each of the
vegetables separately (potato,

Quoted message said:

carrot, onion, rutabaga, parsnip, and cabbage)in some of the cooking
liquid until each has reached it's perfect degree of doneness. At the
same time I gently reheat the sliced meat in the oven. Combine meat
and all vegetables on a large platter, brush all the vegetables with
melted butter, and garnish with fresh chopped parsley.

Call me sick...I like it this way.

I would like that, too. What I was reacting to was the veggies boiled
for two hours. -aem

Yup, the day I boil vegetables for two hours is the day they go from pot to
trash.

--
Wayne Boatwright
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

On Sat 02 Apr 2005 06:58:29p, wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Sat 02 Apr 2005 04:43:35p

Well, as they say, it takes all kinds, and I'm definitely over the
edge. I prefer cooking corned beef or brisket until it's perfectly
done, then cool and store in its own liquid. The next day I slice the
meat cold to get perfect slices, arrange in deep platter and moisten
well with the cooking liquid. Meanwhile, I cook each of the
vegetables separately (potato,

Quoted message said:

carrot, onion, rutabaga, parsnip, and cabbage)in some of the cooking
liquid until each has reached it's perfect degree of doneness. At the
same time I gently reheat the sliced meat in the oven. Combine meat
and all vegetables on a large platter, brush all the vegetables with
melted butter, and garnish with fresh chopped parsley.

Call me sick...I like it this way.

Terrific technique, Wayne. Perfect slices and perfectly done
vegetables.

That way results in corned beef dinner so much better than the corned
beef dinners I had growing up. The meat itself was great (no
nitrites/nitrates used in the curing) but the potatoes and
vegetables.....it was years before I discovered how good cabbage can
be.

Mac

Thanks, Mac. It's prettier, too. Nice brightly colored vegetables.

--
Wayne Boatwright
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

Quoted message said:

Yup, the day I boil vegetables for two hours is the day they
go from pot to trash.

We are speaking of simmering, not boiling. The principle of the
crockpot. It works. Nothing falls apart; potatoes, carrots are tender
but intact; cabbage still cabbage. It works.

Neil

Quoted message said:

The meat itself was great (no
nitrites/nitrates used in the curing

.. . . then you missed the whole point of corned beef!

Neil

Neil said:

Quoted message said:

The meat itself was great (no
nitrites/nitrates used in the curing

. . . then you missed the whole point of corned beef!

No way. Brisket corned with no nitrites/nitrates is so far superior to
the reddish corned beef found in the stores now. The color of the
cooked beef is different (brownish) but the great difference is how
succulent and flavorful the beef is, a meat that almost literally melts
in your mouth. Great hot, great in sandwiches, and great as part of
hash.

I can't find this kind of corned brisket on the West Coast and may be
driven to emptying a good part of the fridge and corning my own.

Mac

In article said:

I am making cornbeef and cabbage even as a right this. I don't do
anything special, throw in the brisket, cabbage, potatoes, celery,
carrots, bring to boil then simmer. Is there anything a little more
imaginative in the way of spices or vegetables that I could add to make
things more interesting

I had my basic "corned beef and cabbage" dinner last night. As usual,
it got cooked way too long. But isn't that what it's about anyway? A
meal where timing is not critical and you can go and do all those
"other things" while it's happening!

"Basic" is corned brisket with bay leaves, cloves, a dollop of sugar,
a bit of wine vinegar, and an onion or two added at start of cooking;
and a minimum cooking time of around 40 minutes per 500 grams of meat.

Like Neil, I used to add other vegies right from the start and I
wasn't too concerned that the onions "exfoliated" and the spuds burst.
They still tasted pretty much as expected anyway.

But since reading RFC I've become fussier. The spuds now go in about
an hour after the meat, carrots 30 minutes later, and the cabbage at
about the two hour mark -- which would be the theoretical end of
cooking of the lump of brisket I usually buy (ca. 3 lb in old money).
But, of course, as implied above, it got an extra hour or so of
*simmering* while I had another pre-dinner glass or two of red and
finished the paper.

I must admit I prefer my corned beef starting to fall apart when cut.
(Goes back to the days when previous generations of females in the
house used to press the leftovers to make a sliceable piece for
subsequent cold collations -- but my own press is buggered and they
don't seem to make them anymore).

Modern corned beef tastes like the top of a lab bench. You need long
immersion to suck out the nitrites or whatever, so I still usually
simmer for 3+ rather than 2 hours, even though the press is dead.

After serving myself "enough", the remainder of the chunk goes back
into the cooking liquid to cool. With luck, I remember to take it out
and refigerate before I go to bed.

Oh, and I knock up a simple white sauce based on one of the exfoliated
onions to chuck over the meat, carrots, etc.

Cheers, Phred.

--
[email hidden]

Actually I have a kind of related question. While the corned beef and
cabbage was cheap as it usually is in March, I bought some for myself to
use later. The cabbage I'm not worried about but the beef is in the
freezer. My wife loves the stuff but I can take it or leave it. Seems
to me there ought to be a better way of using that nice piece of meat.
Looking for ideas.

snip

Quoted message said:

Jim Davis said:

Actually I have a kind of related question. While the corned beef
and cabbage was cheap as it usually is in March, I bought some for
myself to use later. The cabbage I'm not worried about but the beef
is in the freezer. My wife loves the stuff but I can take it or
leave it. Seems to me there ought to be a better way of using that
nice piece of meat. Looking for ideas.

Is it already corned, or regular brisket? -aem

Jim Davis said:

Actually I have a kind of related question. While the corned beef

and

Quoted message said:

cabbage was cheap as it usually is in March, I bought some for myself

to

Quoted message said:

use later. The cabbage I'm not worried about but the beef is in the
freezer. My wife loves the stuff but I can take it or leave it.

Seems

Quoted message said:

to me there ought to be a better way of using that nice piece of

meat.

Quoted message said:

Looking for ideas.

Raw corned beef freezes poorly, will fall apart when cooked... contains
too much salt to freeze solidly in a home freezer... yours is already
ruined (except for the recipe below). Next time cook it first and
freeze the left overs... left over corned beef, what left overs, I've
never seen left over corned beef... that's called hash, and no matter
how much, never hangs around more than four hours.... whatever ain't
eaten for breakfast will be eaten for lunch.

Trinidad Black Bean Soup

2 cups black beans, dried
1/2 pound corned beef
2 onions,chopped
2 cloves garlic, minced
2 sprigs parsley
1/2 teaspoon dried thyme
2 stalks celery
4 green onions, chopped
bay leaf
6 cups beef stock
salt and pepper
Garnish: curls of lime zest and either lime juice or pepper wine (see
below)

Soak beans overnight in cold water. Drain, discarding water, and put
beans in a large saucepan with the hunk of corned beef, onion, garlic,
parsley, thyme, celery, green onions, bay leaf, stock, and pepper.
Bring to a boil, reduce heat, cover, and simmer for about 2 hours,
until beans are very tender.

Remove from heat. Discard bay leaf, fish out the corned beef hunk and
set aside. Lightly puree the soup, then return to the saucepan and
adjust for seasoning. Shred the corned beef and stir in. When you're
ready to serve, ladle into bowls, lace with the lime juice or pepper
wine, and top with the lime curl.

Pepper Wine: Make in advance; it keeps forever.

6 whole hot peppers
1 pint light rum or dry sherry
Mix together in a jar; cover; and let sit for 10 days. A little goes a
long way--just a few drops or so at a time in soups and sauces.
---

Sheldon