Chains, chain guards, oil baths

Quoted message said:

Lou Holtman said:

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:55:15 +0200, Lou Holtman
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

>Here in the Netherlands a fully-wrapped chain is standard for 80% of our
>commuter/city bikes and with reason. Never knew we were a third world
>country.
>
>Lou

Dear Lou,

Elsewhere in this thread, posters are complaining that
WalMart sells cheap bicycles in the U.S. without any
"guidance" as they call it.

In the Netherlands, how much fuss would you say that the
hordes of typical commuter/city bicyclists make about
getting their bikes?

That is, do most bicyclists in the Netherlands spend lots of
time comparing brands, discussing details with bicycle
shops, getting guidance, and getting fitted?

I don't know if you ever visited the Netherlands. Then you would know
that we have a lot of bicycles. Every citizen has at least one bicycle
and lot of people commute. So we have a lot of bikeshops who deliver
good advice, a wide range of good quality bikes and good service. Before
spending about 700 up to 1200 euro a lot of people do spend quite a lot
of time comparing brands, discussing details with the bikeshop. For most
people buying an new bike is a happy event. Fitting is the weak part
with commuter/citybikes. Mostly they only determine the correct
frameheight and the customer figures out the rest on a trial and error
basis.

Quoted message said:

Or do they just walk in, pick a bike that they like, and
ride off without much more thought that WalMart customers?

We have those too and we have also department stores selling low end
bikes in the 150-200 euro range.

Lou

Dear Lou,

Yes, pictures posted here have shown that bikes are
impressively more popular in the Netherlands than in the
U.S.:

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?q=carl+penguin&hl=en&lr=&group=rec.bicycles.tech&scoring=d&selm=8bbde8fc.0312151625.18fde916%40posting.google.com&rnum=1

The picture that Derk linked is no longer up, but it showed
what looked like a bicycle version of a penguin rookery.

Yes I saw that picture too, but this is an exception only seen at the
train station of ..ahum.. the bigger cities.

Quoted message said:

Would you hazard a guess as to what percentage of bikes in a
triple-decker Netherlands bike parking lot are the low end
bikes that you mention?

In that triple decker bike parking 95% are second, third or fourth hand
bikes, that used to be high end bikes onces.

Quoted message said:

That is, I'm wondering if most people are commuting around
the cities on 700-1200 euro bikes bought in the local bike
shops, or if they make do with the cheaper, more generic
bikes in the 150-200 range?

I live in a small city with 90000 inhabitants. Most people who commute
buy a new bike in the 400-700 euro range or a very good second hand
bike. The very high end bikes of 700-1200 euro are mostly used for
recreational purposes. New, low end bikes, well they aren't that
populair. People rather buy a good second hand bike.

Quoted message said:

If you find yourself in one of those monster bike parking
lots, you might take a few moments and make a rough tally as
you walk past a hundred bikes or so.

The section are numbered Carl. When I was in Los Angeles I visited
Disneyland(or world?) in Anaheim. I arrived early and the parking lot
was almost empty. I was bored and left early at 2.00 pm.....Boy I had
trouble finding my car because the parking lot was full now and I had
not write down where I parked that damned car...

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Ken said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...and the bike sales area isn't in the
same part of the store as the bike assembly area...which is outside,
in a corner of the garden shop in most cases. That's if they even
*have* a bike assembly area; many of the Wal-Mart stores seem to get
huge shipments of bikes that are assembled and hung from the rafters
all at once, and then pulled down over the course of the year as units
get sold from the display rack.

Well I don't know how they do it now, but in the *old* x-mart days they used
to just have them in crates, and when a buyer purchased one, they put it
together, and you had to make a return trip to pick it up.

Mall-warts have two apparent patterns; either the store receives them
a few at a time and assembles them continuously, or they get huge
quantities in one batch (possibly preassembled) which get hung up in
the ceiling above the toy department and/or stashed outside in the
rain in a long line in front of the store with a cable lock running
through the whole batch. The latter pattern seems more typical of the
superstores in rural areas like most of Louisiana, while the stores in
an urban area like Houston tend to be of the assemble-as-they-sell
variety; in both cases, however, they sell bikes from the display rack
that are *nominally* ready to roll out, as does Target and KMart. The
days when customers would tolerate something less than instant
gratification from a $BIG_STORE are long in the past. Sporting goods
stores like Oshman's may still assemble them as they're sold, but
*discount* sporting goods places like Academy follow the x-mart
pattern by selling preassembled bikes straight from the rack.

Of course, those "nominally ready to roll out" bikes are not always
100% ready to *ride*, even if the purchaser happens to accidentally be
a good fit for the frame size and seat and bar height. I've seen very
few at Mall-Wart that had their brakes and shifters still in
ride-ready states of adjustment, if they ever were to begin with.
I've also seen more than a few rims that were going to be a challenge
to get back to being true after the fierce manhandling they'd had in
getting them out of and back into the display rack in the hands of
customers with more muscle than brains. And as far as those excreable
seats are concerned, in many cases it matters little how tight the
clamp bolt may be, the seat's going to tilt on the first bump.,,,but
it might have been delayed to the second or third bump if the clamp
had been closer to *really* tight to begin with. Over at Target, it
seems like it must take a mracle to get ont to the register without
loose bits showing up. We no longer have any K-Marts here, so my
experience with them is potentially out of date.
--
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Quoted message said:

But then, I load up my bikes with racks, fenders, lights, horns,
water-bottle cages, baskets, radios, computers, locks and whatever
stikes my fancy. To me, the (in)convenience of a trouble-free chain
would be worth adding a 'simple' monstrosity.

Your enthusiasm would be blunted by the reality of the device.
Remember that it must be entirely outside of all of the regions of
travel of the derailleur mechanism and chain in all directions or it
will interfere with gear selection, and it must be far enough from the
*lower* extent of the chain to prevent the chain from slapping against
it on bumps. It would drag on the ground on some right turns, it
would be wider than the freewheel or cassette from top to bottom in
the rear, and it would have a further protrusion to accommodate the
ders. Thisnk of a pair of large skateboards, tied together with their
trucks facing each other, strapped to the chainstay on the drive side,
and you're getting close to the kind of monstrosity involved. Add in
the fact that a large chunk of it would have to be removable in order
to allow the wheel to be dismounted for flat repair. If it were
practicable to build one, the European bikes would have them now, at
least as an option. They are, however, *not* practicable to install.
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Werehatrack said:

Quoted message said:

But then, I load up my bikes with racks, fenders, lights, horns,
water-bottle cages, baskets, radios, computers, locks and whatever
stikes my fancy. To me, the (in)convenience of a trouble-free chain
would be worth adding a 'simple' monstrosity.

Your enthusiasm would be blunted by the reality of the device.
Remember that it must be entirely outside of all of the regions of
travel of the derailleur mechanism and chain in all directions or it
will interfere with gear selection, and it must be far enough from

the

Quoted message said:

*lower* extent of the chain to prevent the chain from slapping

against

Quoted message said:

it on bumps. It would drag on the ground on some right turns, it
would be wider than the freewheel or cassette from top to bottom in
the rear, and it would have a further protrusion to accommodate the
ders.

I think a chaincase is an impractical idea on a derailer equipped bike,
but is reasonable on an internally geared bike.

An article describing a retrofit:
<http://www.phred.org/~alex/bikes/chaincase.html>

Perhaps some sort of permanently sealed and lubricated chain would be a

better solution.

i'm going in your direction-
cartridge chains
theirBM.
popem in popem off

where's the profit
knee how ma?

in woolmort?
stop by wool's cycle excretus and check the lock quality on Wal's cycle
cable set! that's the lock with a grip shaped delrin nylon bottom,

Back fromah 3 wallbangers lunch
Well, I buy chains from nashbar at $13 or less. Only.
The commuting chains last 2000 limes or so in a clean environment
Lately, I'm traveling thru a very lightly sanded environment-from
road widening that'll allow folks to buy condos and retire hear-and
the light grit
IS TEARING THE HELL OUTTA MY CHAINS! then I get into real sand
occasionally and there goes the chain. I dunno how u dirt guys take it.

So let's say I'll pay ow ow ow ow $20 for a chain. A cartridge
chain lasts 3 to 5 times longer than a 1000-2000 mile chain.

Can this be done and then sold for another $40?

I get a cartridge chain that'l last for more than a commuting year
without attention or maybe a nipple or two for pitstops at $100

Where normally I need 1.5 or 2 chains at 13 plus $20(2)gear clusters
equals $66 plus lube at $14 a Valvo bottle plus time at GGGRRRRRKKK
maybe $150/year no problem. $500 if urine a bad mood.

BUTBUTBUTBUT!!
The real deal is-drumroll dude!!
This expletive deletred cartridge chain runs first roll after clean and
lube frictionless
EVERY EXPLETIVE DELETED DAY!!

Where's the line???????
Can this be done and then sold for another $40? $50 $60 $70?

Back fromah 3 wallbangers lunch
Well, I buy chains from nashbar at $13 or less. Only.
The commuting chains last 2000 limes or so in a clean environment
Lately, I'm traveling thru a very lightly sanded environment-from
road widening that'll allow folks to buy condos and retire hear-and
the light grit
IS TEARING THE HELL OUTTA MY CHAINS! then I get into real sand
occasionally and there goes the chain. I dunno how u dirt guys take it.

So let's say I'll pay ow ow ow ow $20 for a chain. A cartridge
chain lasts 3 to 5 times longer than a 1000-2000 mile chain.

Can this be done and then sold for another $40?

I get a cartridge chain that'l last for more than a commuting year
without attention or maybe a nipple or two for pitstops at $100

Where normally I need 1.5 or 2 chains at 13 plus $20(2)gear clusters
equals $66 plus lube at $14 a Valvo bottle plus time at GGGRRRRRKKK
maybe $150/year no problem. $500 if urine a bad mood.

BUTBUTBUTBUT!!
The real deal is-drumroll dude!!
This expletive deletred cartridge chain runs first roll after clean and

lube frictionless
EVERY EXPLETIVE DELETED DAY!!

Where's the line???????
Can this be done and then sold for another $40? $50 $60 $70?

Quoted message said:

So let's say I'll pay ow ow ow ow $20 for a chain. A cartridge
chain lasts 3 to 5 times longer than a 1000-2000 mile chain.

Can this be done and then sold for another $40?

There is no way to make a sealed chain with the dimensions and
side-flex requirements that will work with a derailleur system, for a
price that's less than a mid-range bike. As in, it would be in the
vicinity of $400 to $1000 (probably at the high end, maybe more) for
such a chain due to the exotic seal designs and materials and the
close tolerances of fit that would be required. And it would still
have a higher drag than a regular chain, and it would probably not
last too much longer anyway because the *seals*, dainty little things
that they would have to be in the tiny space available, would get torn
up by the very same grit that eats the chains now.

There has been demand for such a product for decades. There has been
*no* attempt to satisfy it. This is a Clue.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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Quoted message said:

Can this be done and then sold for another $40? $50 $60 $70?

No.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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wait one-
we're talkin delrin gears and kevlar belts
a lever deray in front for 2 CR's and one in back for 2 sprockets ona 8
speed internal hub=32!!
have a wallbanger and check out the IBM's cassette
and it's your $$$$$ for development!!
from woolmort to china.
daiseyville!!

On 12 Apr 2005 16:26:28 -0700, [email hidden] scribbled:

Quoted message said:

wait one-
we're talkin delrin gears and kevlar belts
a lever deray in front for 2 CR's and one in back for 2 sprockets ona 8
speed internal hub=32!!
have a wallbanger and check out the IBM's cassette
and it's your $$$$$ for development!!
from woolmort to china.
daiseyville!!

Typewriter, a bike is not. 🙂

-Slash
--
"Ebert Victorious"
-The Onion

Slash said:

On 12 Apr 2005 16:26:28 -0700, [email hidden] scribbled:

Quoted message said:

wait one-
we're talkin delrin gears and kevlar belts
a lever deray in front for 2 CR's and one in back for 2 sprockets ona 8
speed internal hub=32!!
have a wallbanger and check out the IBM's cassette
and it's your $$$$$ for development!!
from woolmort to china.
daiseyville!!

Typewriter, a bike is not. 🙂

-Slash

Dude, we've been here too long.

Ron

gnaw
a typewriter it can be itsa concept
be here long?
wait'll the triffids show up

Quoted message said:

gnaw
a typewriter it can be itsa concept
be here long?
wait'll the triffids show up

Do Not Plant Another Zucchini.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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quote='Werehatrack'On 15 Apr 2005 08:23:41 -0700 said:

gnaw
a typewriter it can be itsa concept
be here long?
wait'll the triffids show up

Do Not Plant Another Zucchini.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.[/QUOTE]
I can't believe this thread has gone this long with no mention of shaft drive.http://webbicycle.com/bike-features.php

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

maintenance. WHY is this not more readily available (in the US
market)?

Perhaps some sort of permanently sealed and lubricated chain would be a
better solution.

too much friction.
-----------
Alex