Old Tour de France Photos

DiabloScott at [email hidden] wrote on 7/3/03 8:40 PM:

Quoted message said:

CycleSport has a 100th Tour anniversary issue this month that is pretty good. In some of the
older photos (in the days of sew-ups wrapped around the riders' shoulders) the riders have
something attached to the underside of their down tubes near the crank... sort of where you
sometimes see the third water bottle cage on loaded touring bikes. The thing looks to be about
the size of a mini pump but I don't think mini pumps were around back then and it doesn't look
like a pump anyway.

If you're playing along at home: Pg 56 & 57 - from 1955 (Bobet & Gaul) Pg 99 - from probably the
same year, as he was a Bobet support rider Pg 132 - ? probably Bobet again, but a different year --
no WC stripes on the arms.

They do seem to be held by a bracket which would allow access to them. They are roughly the diameter
of the downtube.

One thing that occurs: on pg 132, it looks like it tapers near the BB - could it be an oiler?
Connected to the BB to reduce friction by drip irrigation?

That's my wild guess for the morning.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jim Edgar
DiabloScott at [email hidden] wrote on 7/3/03 8:40 PM:

Quoted message said:

CycleSport has a 100th Tour anniversary issue this month that is pretty good. In some of the
older photos (in the days of sew-ups wrapped around the riders' shoulders) the riders have
something attached to the underside of their down tubes near the crank... sort of where you
sometimes see the third water bottle cage on loaded touring bikes. The thing looks to be about
the size of a mini pump but I don't think mini pumps were around back then and it doesn't look
like a pump anyway.

If you're playing along at home: Pg 56 & 57 - from 1955 (Bobet & Gaul) Pg 99 - from probably the
same year, as he was a Bobet support rider Pg 132 - ? probably Bobet again, but a different year --
no WC stripes on the arms.

They do seem to be held by a bracket which would allow access to them. They are roughly the diameter
of the downtube.

One thing that occurs: on pg 132, it looks like it tapers near the BB - could it be an oiler?
Connected to the BB to reduce friction by drip irrigation?

That's my wild guess for the morning.

An excellent guess Jim (excellent = makes sense and I didn't think of it also). Page 73 has another photo of Gaul from '55 showing more of the non-crank side and it looks like there's maybe some kind of nozzle there at the bottom. Possibly a chain luber rather than a bottom bracket oiler but it does look like it's held by some sort of easy off spring clamp.

No answer on the sew-up inflation?

"DiabloScott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

CycleSport has a 100th Tour anniversary issue this month that is pretty good. In some of the
older photos (in the days of sew-ups wrapped around the riders' shoulders) the riders have
something attached to the underside of their down tubes near the crank... sort of where you
sometimes see the third water bottle cage on loaded touring bikes. The thing looks to be about
the size of a mini pump but I don't think mini pumps were around back then and it doesn't look
like a pump anyway.

Not all of the bikes had them which leads to another question - I don't see any pumps on any of
the bikes, so how did those guys inflate those shoulder sew-ups?

A gonfleur. It is a refillable system that predates our CO2 inflators.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"DiabloScott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

CycleSport has a 100th Tour anniversary issue this month that is pretty good. In some of the
older photos (in the days of sew-ups wrapped around the riders' shoulders) the riders have
something attached to the underside of their down tubes near the crank... sort of where you
sometimes see the third water bottle cage on loaded touring bikes. The thing looks to be about
the size of a mini pump but I don't think mini pumps were around back then and it doesn't look
like a pump anyway.

Not all of the bikes had them which leads to another question - I don't see any pumps on any of
the bikes, so how did those guys inflate those shoulder sew-ups?

A gonfleur. It is a refillable system that predates our CO2 inflators.

Mr. Muzi; Could you please tell us (or me) more about gonfleur. Or did I just take the bait, hook,
line, & sinker. Thanks John

(John McGraw) said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A gonfleur. It is a refillable system that predates our CO2 inflators.

Mr. Muzi; Could you please tell us (or me) more about gonfleur. Or did I just take the bait, hook,
line, & sinker. Thanks John

Googling, gonfleur appears to be french for any kind of.. "pump". Make of that what you will.

Jasper

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by A Muzi
"DiabloScott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

CycleSport has a 100th Tour anniversary issue this month that is pretty good. In some of the
older photos (in the days of sew-ups wrapped around the riders' shoulders) the riders have
something attached to the underside of their down tubes near the crank... sort of where you
sometimes see the third water bottle cage on loaded touring bikes. The thing looks to be about
the size of a mini pump but I don't think mini pumps were around back then and it doesn't look
like a pump anyway.

Not all of the bikes had them which leads to another question - I don't see any pumps on any of
the bikes, so how did those guys inflate those shoulder sew-ups?

A gonfleur. It is a refillable system that predates our CO2 inflators.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

OK, so is that thing under their downtubes the gonfleur? If so, what did the other riders without them use to press up their tires?

DiabloScott said:

OK, so is that thing under their downtubes the gonfleur? If so, what did the other riders without
them use to press up their tires?

A flunky with a floor pump in the sag wagon?

Jasper

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jasper Janssen

BOn 7 Jul 2003 08:30:36 +0950 said:

OK, so is that thing under their downtubes the gonfleur? If so, what did the other riders without
them use to press up their tires?

A flunky with a floor pump in the sag wagon?

Jasper [/B]

I don't think they allowed sag wagons then, only cars for officials who made sure the riders didn't borrow a pump from somebody else.

There's another photo at the beginning of the technology section of an old timer with a full-size frame pump, but I don't see any frame pumps on any of the bikes so they must have had some place to conceal them like maybe in the seat tube?

Another thought - those sew-ups over the shoulders look like they've got air in them already, perhaps enough to ride without further inflation?

DiabloScott said:

There's another photo at the beginning of the technology section of an old timer with a full-size
frame pump, but I don't see any frame pumps on any of the bikes so they must have had some place
to conceal them like maybe in the seat tube?

I don't think so. Frame pumps were quite common. Hard to conceal something in the seat tube without
cutting a big hole in it.

Quoted message said:

Another thought - those sew-ups over the shoulders look like they've got air in them already,
perhaps enough to ride without further inflation?

That is impossible. The tire actually constricts when inflated to hold it on the rim. Inflating it
to anywhere near full pressure would make it impossible to mount.

Most of the tires you see wrapped around someone's shoulders are flat. That is a quick-and dirty
way to carry it back to the end of the stage without having to carefully fold it and put it in
your seat bag.

Are these pictures available somewhere on-line so I can see what you are talking about?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass. _`\(,_ | What are you on?"
--Lance Armstrong (_)/ (_) |

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by David L. Johnso

BOn Tue said:

There's another photo at the beginning of the technology section of an old timer with a full-size
frame pump, but I don't see any frame pumps on any of the bikes so they must have had some place
to conceal them like maybe in the seat tube?

I don't think so. Frame pumps were quite common. Hard to conceal something in the seat tube without
cutting a big hole in it.

Quoted message said:

Another thought - those sew-ups over the shoulders look like they've got air in them already,
perhaps enough to ride without further inflation?

That is impossible. The tire actually constricts when inflated to hold it on the rim. Inflating it
to anywhere near full pressure would make it impossible to mount.

Most of the tires you see wrapped around someone's shoulders are flat. That is a quick-and dirty
way to carry it back to the end of the stage without having to carefully fold it and put it in
your seat bag.

Are these pictures available somewhere on-line so I can see what you are talking about?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass. _`\(,_ | What are you on?"
--Lance Armstrong (_)/ (_) | [/B]

Here's a photo of two guys with the gonfleur doohickey. Bobet et Geminiani

Both guys have the shoulder sew-ups and both guys have the doohickey and neither guy has a frame pump. In this photo you can see the tires don't have any air in them - I was thinking that maybe only 30 psi or so was normal for tires in the 50's and that might be wearable. I think those are spares and not punctures in most of the photos. While I was searching for this photo I found quite a few others that did show frame pumps - usually on the downtube with water bottles on the handlebars.

I've seen a frame pump that goes in the seat tube by taking out the seat post (or maybe the seatpost was the pump) it was a dumb idea but I thought maybe some of these guys had one. The gonfleur thingy looks like it could fit in a jersey pocket so maybe that's what the other guys did.

DiabloScott said:

David L. Johnso wrote:

Quoted message said:

Here's a photo of two guys with the gonfleur doohickey. users.sk-users.sk-Open ↗
ynet.be/lenetducyclisme/images/Photo%20Tours/1953/Bobet_et_Geminiani.JP- GBobet et Geminiani

I can't manage to edit that link to something that will be accepted. Certainly the sk- should be
skynet.... but the rest still doesn't go through.

Quoted message said:

Both guys have the shoulder sew-ups and both guys have the doohickey and neither guy has a frame
pump. In this photo you can see the tires don't have any air in them - I was thinking that maybe
only 30 psi or so was normal for tires in the 50's and that might be wearable.

No, 90-100psi was standard. Tires were essentially the same then as now.

Quoted message said:

I think those are spares and not punctures in most of the photos. While I was searching for this
photo I found quite a few others that did show frame pumps - usually on the downtube with water
bottles on the handlebars.

I've seen a frame pump that goes in the seat tube by taking out the seat post (or maybe the
seatpost was the pump) it was a dumb idea but I thought maybe some of these guys had one.

That would be incredibly slow as well as requiring them to carefully adjust the seat when done.
Since they were in too much of a hurry to even pack away flat tires, it doesn't seem likely.

Quoted message said:

The gonfleur thingy looks like it could fit in a jersey pocket so maybe that's what the other
guys did.

Can you e-mail me one of these pictures?  I still don't get it.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is _`\(,_ | not that they are
extreme, but that they are intolerant. (_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

see if this works.

users.skynet.beBobet et Geminiani.JPGOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

OK, so is that thing under their downtubes the gonfleur? If so, what did the other riders without
them use to press up their tires?

in the mag in question...

p 118: fausto appears to have a pump mounted on the topside of the down tube

p 128: well...

p 132: foreground bike has this device under the down tube background bike appears to have one
mounted behind the seat tube

though there are a number in which there's nothing evident. when did the tour start allowing
support vehicles?

DiabloScott said:

Here's a photo of two guys with the gonfleur doohickey.

I'm going to have to put you out of my misery. "Gonfleur" is French for "pump".
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by David Damerell

BDiabloScott said:

Here's a photo of two guys with the gonfleur doohickey.

I'm going to have to put you out of my misery. "Gonfleur" is French for "pump".
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field! [/B]

Well, if A Muzi is right then gonfleur could also be translated as "inflator". That thing just doesn't look like a pump but it could be a small pressure cylinder. It would be much bigger than a CO2 cylinder since it's filled with pressurized air and not liquid.

David Damerell said:

Quoted message said:

I'm going to have to put you out of my misery. "Gonfleur" is French for "pump".

"Pompe" is French for pump.

DiabloScott said:

Well, if A Muzi is right then gonfleur could also be translated as "inflator".

That's the best direct translation, from "gonfler" - to inflate. Zefal refers to its pumps as
"pompes", and its C02 cartridges as "gonfleurs", though French cyclists are more likely
(fr.rec.sport.cyclisme) to call them simply "cartouches de CO2".

James Thomson

Marcus Coles said:

see if this works.

users.skynet.beBobet et Geminiani.JPGOpen ↗

Thanks. That does work, but I still don't get it. Those cylinders on the bottom of the downtube
aren't pumps, or gas canisters. Must be oilers of some sort, but I haven't seen their like before.
Maybe some short-livd fad about keeping the chain oiled.

I also don't know where they might keep their pumps.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember _`\(,_ | that your initial
objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ (_)/ (_) |

James Thomson said:

David Damerell said:

Quoted message said:

I'm going to have to put you out of my misery. "Gonfleur" is French for "pump".

"Pompe" is French for pump.

"Pompe" is a pump for anything. A "gonfleur" works on air, to inflate things; but it could very well
be a pump. If you don't believe me, Google "gonfleur" - the very first hit depicts a foot-pump.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Pompe" is French for pump.

David Damerell said:

"Pompe" is a pump for anything. A "gonfleur" works on air, to inflate things; but it could very
well be a pump. If you don't believe me, Google "gonfleur" - the very first hit depicts a
foot-pump.

David,

The trivial error you're trying to obfuscate is best illuminated by comparing your assertion:

"Gonfleur" is French for "pump"

with the equally erroneous phrase:

"Inflator" is English for "pompe".

James Thomson