Bowling ball Shoulders...chin up/Dips?

BillyBob 'Bubba' Farnsworth III said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball size
shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for lats/
biceps. Both are compound movements, the relative emphasis changes depending
on how you do the movement (e.g. keep elbows in on dips to emphasise triceps)

For shoulders, best bet is some sort of pressing movement -- military press,
dumbell shoulder press. Anything that involves lifting a heavy weight over
your head will work your shoulders. You can also do dumbell side or front
raises for these.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball size
shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Maybe you can find a swarmy plastic sugeon to implant those bowling balls.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

BillyBob 'Bubba' Farnsworth III said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball size
shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for lats/
biceps.

I suspect you may be confusing pull-ups (pronated hands) with chins
(supinated hands), as there is no major involvement of the biceps in
pull-ups.

Have a great weekend Donovan - I am!! ;o)

BillyBob 'Bubba' Farnsworth III said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball size
shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines?

Highly unlikely. Those exercises involve front and rear delts.

Quoted message said:

What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Triceps, chest, lats and to some extent traps.

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

BillyBob 'Bubba' Farnsworth III said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball
size
shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for
lats/
biceps.

I suspect you may be confusing pull-ups (pronated hands) with chins
(supinated hands), as there is no major involvement of the biceps in
pull-ups.

That's not true - if you're starting with your arms straight and then
bending your elbows, you're involving your biceps.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

Have a great weekend Donovan - I am!! ;o)

"BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball
size
shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

I agree with Donovan - overhead pressing. One-armed overhead pressing
allows you to find a good groove for each shoulder and, while the weight
won't be as heavy as a two-armed barbell military press, you can still
learn to strict press heavy one-armed. Old time moves like the bent
press and side press are also great for your shoulders.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

DZ said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

BillyBob 'Bubba' Farnsworth III said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball
size shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What
major developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular
basis?

Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for
lats/ biceps. Both are compound movements, the relative emphasis
changes depending on how you do the movement (e.g. keep elbows in on
dips to emphasise triceps)

For shoulders, best bet is some sort of pressing movement --
military press, dumbell shoulder press. Anything that involves
lifting a heavy weight over your head will work your shoulders. You
can also do dumbell side or front raises for these.

Dips work front delts pretty well. Certainly a better exercise for
that than front raises.

Yep.

--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

Steve Freides said:

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

On 2005-04-23, BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball
> size
> shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
> developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for
lats/
biceps.

I suspect you may be confusing pull-ups (pronated hands) with chins
(supinated hands), as there is no major involvement of the biceps in
pull-ups.

That's not true - if you're starting with your arms straight and then
bending your elbows, you're involving your biceps.

I said "major involvement"; in both exercises the prime mover is the
latissimus dorsi, while the biceps are only one of many synergists.

Do the exercises Steve and see which muscle is shortening
significantly. In chins the biceps are really up for it, but not so in
the pull-up!!

Trust me, I know these things!!

Have a great weekend Steve - I am!! ;o)

"BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball size
shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

they won't hurt. Various chins, dips, add handstand pushups, eat and just
watch.

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

BillyBob 'Bubba' Farnsworth III said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball size
shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for lats/
biceps.

I suspect you may be confusing pull-ups (pronated hands) with chins
(supinated hands), as there is no major involvement of the biceps in
pull-ups.

???
Say what?

Jay said:

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

On 2005-04-23, BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball size
> shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
> developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for lats/
biceps.

I suspect you may be confusing pull-ups (pronated hands) with chins
(supinated hands), as there is no major involvement of the biceps in
pull-ups.

???
Say what?

I gather you are disputing my assertion?

I elaborated in:

<[email hidden]>

HTH!

Have a great Sunday Jay - you can bet your sweet 'ass' that I will!!
;o)

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay said:

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:07:59 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>On 2005-04-23, BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball
>> size
>> shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
>> developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?
>
>Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for lats/
>biceps.

I suspect you may be confusing pull-ups (pronated hands) with chins
(supinated hands), as there is no major involvement of the biceps in
pull-ups.

???
Say what?

I gather you are disputing my assertion?

I elaborated in:

<[email hidden]>

HTH!

Have a great Sunday Jay - you can bet your sweet 'ass' that I will!!
;o)

Are you confusing mechanical efficiency with non-involvement?
Yes the biceps, and by biceps I assume that you mean more accurately the
biceps brachii, are more biomechanically efficient in the supinated version
of pull ups, less so in the semi-supinated version which are both referred
to as chin ups specifically, than in its classic cousin the pull up which is
performed with a pronated grip.
Hand position does not affect the involvementof the brachialis, but does
affect the involvement of the biceps brachii.
All versions use the synergy of the sternal portion of the pectoralis major,
latissimus dorsi, teres major, posterior deltoid, the rhomboids, the middle
and lower portions of the trapezius, and the elbow flexors, the biceps
brachii, brachialis, and brachio-radialis. Working the brachialis,
sometimes referred to as the workhorse of elbow flexion, makes sense if
complete development is desired. For complete development of the entire
group of muscles, using a variety of the hand positions and grip widths will
get the job done. If torture is desired, then making sure that the sternum
chin-up and the supscapularis chin-up should be done.

In any event, efficiency in the line of pull and "no major involvement" are
not synonymous. The elbow flexors are less involved than the shoulder
extensors in pull up variations. The elbow flexors are all used when the
elbow is flexed, regardless of hand position, and this is why they call this
group of muscles the elbow flexors.

My weekends are always fabulous

🙂

Jay said:

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay said:

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:07:59 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>On 2005-04-23, BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>> I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball
>>> size
>>> shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
>>> developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?
>>
>>Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for lats/
>>biceps.
>
> I suspect you may be confusing pull-ups (pronated hands) with chins
> (supinated hands), as there is no major involvement of the biceps in
> pull-ups.
>
???
Say what?

I gather you are disputing my assertion?

I elaborated in:

<[email hidden]>

HTH!

Have a great Sunday Jay - you can bet your sweet 'ass' that I will!!
;o)

Are you confusing mechanical efficiency with non-involvement?
Yes the biceps, and by biceps I assume that you mean more accurately the
biceps brachii, are more biomechanically efficient in the supinated version
of pull ups, less so in the semi-supinated version which are both referred
to as chin ups specifically, than in its classic cousin the pull up which is
performed with a pronated grip.
Hand position does not affect the involvementof the brachialis, but does
affect the involvement of the biceps brachii.
All versions use the synergy of the sternal portion of the pectoralis major,
latissimus dorsi, teres major, posterior deltoid, the rhomboids, the middle
and lower portions of the trapezius, and the elbow flexors, the biceps
brachii, brachialis, and brachio-radialis. Working the brachialis,
sometimes referred to as the workhorse of elbow flexion, makes sense if
complete development is desired. For complete development of the entire
group of muscles, using a variety of the hand positions and grip widths will
get the job done. If torture is desired, then making sure that the sternum
chin-up and the supscapularis chin-up should be done.

In any event, efficiency in the line of pull and "no major involvement" are
not synonymous. The elbow flexors are less involved than the shoulder
extensors in pull up variations. The elbow flexors are all used when the
elbow is flexed, regardless of hand position, and this is why they call this
group of muscles the elbow flexors.

Thus proving that [censored] will often baffle brains, but not always.
;o)

All you are saying Jay, in a flowery sort of way, is that what I said
is materially correct, but you make it so much more esoteric!!

Quoted message said:

My weekends are always fabulous

I'm delighted to hear that, long may it be so!! ;o)

Jay said:

Charles said:

Jay said:

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>On 2005-04-23, BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>> I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball
>>> size
>>> shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
>>> developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?
>>
>>Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for lats/
>>biceps.
>
> I suspect you may be confusing pull-ups (pronated hands) with chins
> (supinated hands), as there is no major involvement of the biceps in
> pull-ups.
>
???
Say what?

I gather you are disputing my assertion?

I elaborated in:

<[email hidden]>

HTH!

Have a great Sunday Jay - you can bet your sweet 'ass' that I will!!
;o)

Are you confusing mechanical efficiency with non-involvement?
Yes the biceps, and by biceps I assume that you mean more accurately the
biceps brachii, are more biomechanically efficient in the supinated version
of pull ups, less so in the semi-supinated version which are both referred
to as chin ups specifically, than in its classic cousin the pull up which is
performed with a pronated grip.

Some folks arbitrarily designate which are "chins" and which are
"pullups." Those designation vary from person to person. It is
better to designate by the grip.

Quoted message said:

Hand position does not affect the involvementof the brachialis, but does
affect the involvement of the biceps brachii.
All versions use the synergy of the sternal portion of the pectoralis major,
latissimus dorsi, teres major, posterior deltoid, the rhomboids, the middle
and lower portions of the trapezius, and the elbow flexors, the biceps
brachii, brachialis, and brachio-radialis. Working the brachialis,
sometimes referred to as the workhorse of elbow flexion, makes sense if
complete development is desired. For complete development of the entire
group of muscles, using a variety of the hand positions and grip widths will
get the job done. If torture is desired, then making sure that the sternum
chin-up and the supscapularis chin-up should be done.

In any event, efficiency in the line of pull and "no major involvement" are
not synonymous. The elbow flexors are less involved than the shoulder
extensors in pull up variations. The elbow flexors are all used when the
elbow is flexed, regardless of hand position, and this is why they call this
group of muscles the elbow flexors.

In compound exercises, nearly all surrounding muscles are activated to
some extent, whether as agonists, antagonists, or stabilizers.
Nevertheless, the prime movers will receive a lot more activation.
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

DZ said:

Charles said:

All you are saying Jay, in a flowery sort of way, is that what I
said is materially correct, but you make it so much more esoteric!!

If someone was ever accused of being overly flowery that would be
renowned Sir John Hadov of London and Cornwall 🙂

But then that is the due of an English officer and gentleman Dmitri!!
;o)

I trust you are having a pleasant Sunday; mine, sadly, is all too soon
expiring - and then it will be Monday!! Ugh!!

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay said:

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:49:48 GMT, "Jay" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>
>"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:07:59 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
>> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2005-04-23, BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>> I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball
>>>> size
>>>> shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
>>>> developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?
>>>
>>>Short answer is no. Dips are for triceps/pecs, and pullups are for
>>>lats/
>>>biceps.
>>
>> I suspect you may be confusing pull-ups (pronated hands) with chins
>> (supinated hands), as there is no major involvement of the biceps in
>> pull-ups.
>>
>???
>Say what?

I gather you are disputing my assertion?

I elaborated in:

<[email hidden]>

HTH!

Have a great Sunday Jay - you can bet your sweet 'ass' that I will!!
;o)

Are you confusing mechanical efficiency with non-involvement?
Yes the biceps, and by biceps I assume that you mean more accurately the
biceps brachii, are more biomechanically efficient in the supinated
version
of pull ups, less so in the semi-supinated version which are both referred
to as chin ups specifically, than in its classic cousin the pull up which
is
performed with a pronated grip.
Hand position does not affect the involvementof the brachialis, but does
affect the involvement of the biceps brachii.
All versions use the synergy of the sternal portion of the pectoralis
major,
latissimus dorsi, teres major, posterior deltoid, the rhomboids, the
middle
and lower portions of the trapezius, and the elbow flexors, the biceps
brachii, brachialis, and brachio-radialis. Working the brachialis,
sometimes referred to as the workhorse of elbow flexion, makes sense if
complete development is desired. For complete development of the entire
group of muscles, using a variety of the hand positions and grip widths
will
get the job done. If torture is desired, then making sure that the
sternum
chin-up and the supscapularis chin-up should be done.

In any event, efficiency in the line of pull and "no major involvement"
are
not synonymous. The elbow flexors are less involved than the shoulder
extensors in pull up variations. The elbow flexors are all used when the
elbow is flexed, regardless of hand position, and this is why they call
this
group of muscles the elbow flexors.

Thus proving that [censored] will often baffle brains, but not always.
;o)

All you are saying Jay, in a flowery sort of way, is that what I said
is materially correct, but you make it so much more esoteric!!

I had the extra time!!!!!!!!

hearty laughter helps the TA!!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My weekends are always fabulous

I'm delighted to hear that, long may it be so!! ;o)

BillyBob 'Bubba' Farnsworth III said:

I recently bought a Chin up/Dip machine. Can I develop Bowling ball

size

Quoted message said:

shoulders doing dips and a vaiety of pullup routines? What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

What kinda bowling ball ?? Ten Pin, Candlepin or five pin ??

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Triceps, chest, lats and to some extent traps.

I know what a chest is but what are triceps, tats and traps?

"BillyBob "Bubba" Farnsworth III" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What major
developments can be made doing these exercises on a regular basis?

Triceps, chest, lats and to some extent traps.

I know what a chest is but what are triceps, tats and traps?

I know what a chest, triceps, lats and traps are...but what is a tat?

Quoted message said: