Training for a 4 day tour?

franco1 said:

I like to ask the forum how they structure there training program for stage racing?

I've got 3 tours this year still to complete my first one is in 6weeks time and the rest in the middle and end of year.

My training at the moment consists of one hard day with intervals and the next day a recovery / easy ride. Then on weekend I do 5 - 7hr rides.Mondays off completely

My question to you guys is seeing on a tour you race for 4day consectively
should I change my training to Monday off, Tue,Wed & Thursday Intervals, Friday recovery/easy ride and weekend LSD?

Would this help my body to learn to recovery quicker during the stage race or will I just burn myself out?

how long are the stages...? Do you really *need* to do rides of 5 - 7 hrs on a regular basis (i'd only recommend this if you were a pro who might race over 200 plus km)

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

how long are the stages...? Do you really *need* to do rides of 5 - 7 hrs on a regular basis (i'd only recommend this if you were a pro who might race over 200 plus km)

ric

They between 120km to a max of 160km for us vets.

Let me refrase my long hours.

On a Saturday it takes so long is because the route is very hilly (between 8 - 11% gradients) and its 150km long. And some times I do hill repeats too (as I'm not a good climber)
My Sunday rides are flat and I do inbetween 100 to 120km.

franco1 said:

They between 120km to a max of 160km for us vets.

Let me refrase my long hours.

On a Saturday it takes so long is because the route is very hilly (between 8 - 11% gradients) and its 150km long. And some times I do hill repeats too (as I'm not a good climber)
My Sunday rides are flat and I do inbetween 100 to 120km.

I don't mean to appear glib, but why not just ride a shorter route?

If you want to do hill repeats do these as a separate session, if you do them as part of a long session the quality will be way down and you won't get the benfit from them that you should.

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

I don't mean to appear glib, but why not just ride a shorter route?

If you want to do hill repeats do these as a separate session, if you do them as part of a long session the quality will be way down and you won't get the benfit from them that you should.

ric

I do the long ride so as to get time in the seat. Then I train on a wind trainer during the week where I do all my intervals, so I dont get oppertunaties to get out on the road to do hill repeats so I try and take advantage of them whilest I'm out during the weekend. Sure I understand what you saying about the quality or the intensity wont be the same but to do it on tired legs is also a physcolgically good knowing that with tired legs you can still hook it up a hill.

But what do you think of the training program would you change it and how?

franco1 said:

I do the long ride so as to get time in the seat. Then I train on a wind trainer during the week where I do all my intervals, so I dont get oppertunaties to get out on the road to do hill repeats so I try and take advantage of them whilest I'm out during the weekend. Sure I understand what you saying about the quality or the intensity wont be the same but to do it on tired legs is also a physcolgically good knowing that with tired legs you can still hook it up a hill.

But what do you think of the training program would you change it and how?

if i had free reign over your training regime with the time you have available i'd change it.

ric_stern/RST said:

if i had free reign over your training regime with the time you have available i'd change it.

I'd say I have more commitment than time. During my interval days I wake up at 3:30 and train for 2 hours. And on a easy day I spin for 45 - 60min.

Could you tell me how you would change it, I know your a coach (which I cant afford) but would you have it as one day easy one day hard or 2 days hard one easy or 3 days hard and one easy?

Your program isn't balanced, and may not provide the performance you are after on a four day tour.

The crux of any training program is adaptation. A large amount of adaptation comes from pushing your body very hard and then recovering adequately. It can be all too easy to push yourself too hard, and then your body won't be able to recover properly. Ergo, no net benefit.

So here's a simple 3+2 program that you can adapt:

Day1: Group Ride or Base Ride (moderate intensity)
Day2: Group Ride or Base Ride (moderate intensity)
Day3: No riding
Day4: Hill Work. 3 or 4 long climbs, base in between
Day5: Short intervals
Day6: Long Intervals
Day7: Rest. No riding or 30 minute max recovery ride if nec.

The rides on Days 1 and 2 are meant to be 2-5 hours in duration, building over 4-6 weeks. High intensity work or hills are OK in small doses but the idea is to get base miles into your legs.

You can swap Days 4, 5, & 6 around to suit your own schedule.

The Hill Work involves long climbs with the HR increasing over the distance of the climb. The HR range is increased over a 4-6 week period. For example on Week1 you would work between 70% and 80% of HRmax, on Week4 between 75% and 95%, whereas on Week6 you would work between 90% and 95%

Short intervals are maximal effort sprints with the effort distance increasing over 4-6 weeks. The effort distance can range from ultrashort 100m to 1000m, with recovery being 10x the effort distance or until HR drops to 65% of max. No more than 1 hour required. Proper warm up and warm down either side.

Long intervals are based on your HR zones, but are basically 90mins of work that simulates one or two breakaways in a race. The duration of high intensity work increases over a 4-6 week period. Needs to be tailored to the individual according to their current level of fitness.

You state that you have your first race in about 6 weeks time. So I would use a 5 week cycle, followed by a week where the interval work is replaced with base work.

After a four day tour you are going to be needing plenty of rest. The day after the tour you should do a little light spinning (30-40 mins) to ease the pain out of the legs. Rest completely the following day, then a couple of short (1.5hr) base ride days. Have another rest day, then resume on a new cycle starting at the intensisty of Week2 of the previous cycle.

Things to think about when you are on the four day tour.

You have to warm up and warm down each day. The benefits of a good warm up will last for 15-20 minutes, even if you stop and do nothing for the whole time. After you cross the line keep pedalling in a light gear for 10 minutes if you can.

Fluids are critical. Take your own scales and weigh yourself before you start and after you've finished. The difference is the amount of lost fluid you must replace before going to bed.

As soon as you are off the bike start your stretch program and eat a high carb meal (eg. packet of glucose based lollies or 6-10 sugar filled biscuits). Have a hot bath or shower, get a massage if you can, and keep streching until bedtime. Eat well, keep warm, and get to bed early.

Have fresh clothing for each day of the tour (ie. take four sets of nicks, etc.) in case you can't get to a laundry.

Take the sports drink mixers, energy bars, etc that your body is used to. Don't use anything that you haven't used in training.

And keep stretching every time your body asks you to, even when you're on your bike. Start practicing now if you don't already know how to stretch hammys, calves, and quads on the bike.

rockmuncher said:

Your program isn't balanced, and may not provide the performance you are after on a four day tour.

The crux of any training program is adaptation. A large amount of adaptation comes from pushing your body very hard and then recovering adequately. It can be all too easy to push yourself too hard, and then your body won't be able to recover properly. Ergo, no net benefit.

So here's a simple 3+2 program that you can adapt:

Day1: Group Ride or Base Ride (moderate intensity)
Day2: Group Ride or Base Ride (moderate intensity)
Day3: No riding
Day4: Hill Work. 3 or 4 long climbs, base in between
Day5: Short intervals
Day6: Long Intervals
Day7: Rest. No riding or 30 minute max recovery ride if nec.

The rides on Days 1 and 2 are meant to be 2-5 hours in duration, building over 4-6 weeks. High intensity work or hills are OK in small doses but the idea is to get base miles into your legs.

You can swap Days 4, 5, & 6 around to suit your own schedule.

The Hill Work involves long climbs with the HR increasing over the distance of the climb. The HR range is increased over a 4-6 week period. For example on Week1 you would work between 70% and 80% of HRmax, on Week4 between 75% and 95%, whereas on Week6 you would work between 90% and 95%

Short intervals are maximal effort sprints with the effort distance increasing over 4-6 weeks. The effort distance can range from ultrashort 100m to 1000m, with recovery being 10x the effort distance or until HR drops to 65% of max. No more than 1 hour required. Proper warm up and warm down either side.

Long intervals are based on your HR zones, but are basically 90mins of work that simulates one or two breakaways in a race. The duration of high intensity work increases over a 4-6 week period. Needs to be tailored to the individual according to their current level of fitness.

You state that you have your first race in about 6 weeks time. So I would use a 5 week cycle, followed by a week where the interval work is replaced with base work.

After a four day tour you are going to be needing plenty of rest. The day after the tour you should do a little light spinning (30-40 mins) to ease the pain out of the legs. Rest completely the following day, then a couple of short (1.5hr) base ride days. Have another rest day, then resume on a new cycle starting at the intensisty of Week2 of the previous cycle.

Thanks thats the kind of reply I was looking for. But I used to do that and found that I couldn't give 100% on all 3 days as I never recovered. So thats why I'd do it one day on and next easy.

During a week I'd do 1 x short interval and 2 long intervals and then 2 LSD.
But I'll start including hill intervals (say 5min) too now, on my wind trainer

franco1 said:

The stages are between 120km to a max of 160km for us vets.

In the old days you used to train 50km for a 30km race, but with modern training regimes that isn't really necessary. If you can ride 3 hours then you can ride 6, so long as you know how to refuel properly along the way.

You need to lock down your feeding pattern for four days of long stages. I can't advise your on how, but you should have a number of ideas from your extra long rides that you can gel into a feeding system that you can rely on on race day.

franco1 said:

Thanks thats the kind of reply I was looking for. But I used to do that and found that I couldn't give 100% on all 3 days as I never recovered.

That sounds like insufficient conditioning. When you first tried that type of program was it on the back of a solid (>3mths) of true base riding?

The other thing is that you don't have to go flat out on any day except on the short intervals, and even then its only for 10% of the time. The intensity on all other days ramps up over the duration of the cycle, then drops back again at the start of the next cycle. It's like "four steps forward, three steps back".

rockmuncher said:

In the old days you used to train 50km for a 30km race, but with modern training regimes that isn't really necessary. If you can ride 3 hours then you can ride 6, so long as you know how to refuel properly along the way.

You need to lock down your feeding pattern for four days of long stages. I can't advise your on how, but you should have a number of ideas from your extra long rides that you can gel into a feeding system that you can rely on on race day.

Make sense, and us South Africans where always known for junk miles. I'll try your way for a while and see how it goes.

What do you think of training with water only? And obviously still eat on the longer rides.

I only use water during the week when I do intervals and have a protein shake at night. And on weekends I train and race with carbo type drinks.
Thinking that it will also help to lose a bit of excess weight.

You state that you have your first race in about 6 weeks time. So I would use a 5 week cycle, followed by a week where the interval work is replaced with base work.
Sorry what do you mean with this?

Should'nt the base be done first? I've done my base phase already.

franco1 said:

What do you think of training with water only? And obviously still eat on the longer rides.

I only use water during the week when I do intervals and have a protein shake at night. And on weekends I train and race with carbo type drinks.
Thinking that it will also help to lose a bit of excess weight.

Water only is fine, especially on rides of 2 hours or less. If your ride is going to be longer than that then you will need to take in carbs as replenishment. These come from food, not sport drink.

The use of sport drinks stems from studies which show that water absorption is aided by small amounts of carb. I use 1/2 strength staminade in one bidon and water in the other. The water bidon is also important for cleaning glasses and wounds and rinsing out your mouth after eating, so carry at leat one on every ride.

For energy bars look for something with about 20-25% protein so that your stomach has some bulk to work with (helps stop cravings), and make sure it doesn't melt!! Bananas are also excellent value if you like them.

Don't rely on being able to buy food on the road either. I've spent plenty of time in service (gas) stations looking for sugar or glucose based food that won't melt. Very hard these days. Almost everything is sugarfree. Bloody wowsers are taking the life out of living. 🙁

franco1 said:

You state that you have your first race in about 6 weeks time. So I would use a 5 week cycle, followed by a week where the interval work is replaced with base work.
Sorry what do you mean with this?

Should'nt the base be done first? I've done my base phase already.

Yes the solid base needs to be done first, over several months. But as you approach the tour you don't want to be thrashing about, do you? So you back it off for the last week. That's all. You would normally do a full taper, but you don;t have the luxury of time on your side.

rockmuncher said:

Yes the solid base needs to be done first, over several months. But as you approach the tour you don't want to be thrashing about, do you? So you back it off for the last week. That's all. You would normally do a full taper, but you don;t have the luxury of time on your side.

Thanks for all your help. Time to go and train now. Enjoy the weekend.

franco1 said:

Thanks for all your help. Time to go and train now. Enjoy the weekend.

Sure will. Time for bed for me.

And best of luck with your tour race.

To clarify some of these points...

rockmuncher said:

Fluids are critical. Take your own scales and weigh yourself before you start and after you've finished. The difference is the amount of lost fluid you must replace before going to bed.

actually, the post exercise difference should be replaced with 1.5 times the loss, and should contain plenty of sodium (which a good sports drink should contain).

Quoted post said:

As soon as you are off the bike start your stretch program and eat a high carb meal (eg. packet of glucose based lollies or 6-10 sugar filled biscuits). Have a hot bath or shower, get a massage if you can, and keep streching until bedtime. Eat well, keep warm, and get to bed early.

there is no evidence that stretching will help you, and some evidence that it is counter productive.

ric

rockmuncher said:

Water only is fine, especially on rides of 2 hours or less. If your ride is going to be longer than that then you will need to take in carbs as replenishment. These come from food, not sport drink.

most (all?) sports drinks contain carbs which are there to fuel you during exercise (or at other times).

ric