No Magic In Eliminating Carbohydrates

"nonopalerobo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4283d5e5$0$835

Quoted message said:

Why do some people lose weight on this diet? Is there some magical
phenomenon that occurs in the body when high carbohydrate foods are
abolished? No. The Atkins diet essentially eliminates several foods and
food groups like fruits, cereals, breads, grains, starches, baked goods,
dairy products, starchy vegetables, and sweets. This simply translates
into a significant daily calorie reduction - the basis of any weight loss
diet. Any reduction of calories - whether from protein, carbohydrate or
fat - will result in weight loss. The basic weight loss formula is:
calories burned must exceed calories consumed. Easily done when the
majority of the foods on a typical day's menu are eliminated. There's
nothing revolutionary about this regimen.

Partly, yes, it reduces calories because of the food eliminations. Not
counting the veggies that are left, the other foods remaining are HIGH
calorie foods, though.
A bigger part of why I think this works is that without the high
glycemic/highly processed foods turning directly into sugar and causing
insulin spikes... cravings disappear. Appetite is significantly reduced.
Because of that, people eat less, and they can stick to this better because
they're not constantly feeling hungry
..
There is also this other factor... which more directly relates to what
you're asking:
How do you explain the studies that showed that people can eat MORE calories
on low carb than on low fat and lose the same amount of weight?

Dumbass....

nonopalerobo <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> Why do some people lose weight on this diet? Is there some magical
:> phenomenon that occurs in the body when high carbohydrate foods are
:> abolished? No. The Atkins diet essentially eliminates several foods
:> and food groups like fruits, cereals, breads, grains, starches,
:> baked goods, dairy products, starchy vegetables, and sweets. This
:> simply translates into a significant daily calorie reduction - the
:> basis of any weight loss diet. Any reduction of calories - whether
:> from protein, carbohydrate or fat - will result in weight loss. The
:> basic weight loss formula is: calories burned must exceed calories
:> consumed. Easily done when the majority of the foods on a typical
:> day's menu are eliminated. There's nothing revolutionary about this
:> regimen.
:>
:> http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/info/diets/AtkinsDiet.php

Quoted message said:

Why do some people lose weight on this diet? Is there some magical
phenomenon that occurs in the body when high carbohydrate foods are
abolished? No. The Atkins diet essentially eliminates several foods

and

Quoted message said:

food groups like fruits, cereals, breads, grains, starches, baked

goods,

Quoted message said:

dairy products, starchy vegetables, and sweets. This simply translates

Quoted message said:

into a significant daily calorie reduction - the basis of any weight
loss diet. Any reduction of calories - whether from protein,
carbohydrate or fat - will result in weight loss. The basic weight

loss

Quoted message said:

formula is: calories burned must exceed calories consumed. Easily done

Quoted message said:

when the majority of the foods on a typical day's menu are eliminated.

Quoted message said:

There's nothing revolutionary about this regimen.

Nonsense. If this were true, you could lose weight with the "ALL BIG
MAC"
diet in which you can eat nothing but Big Macs since such a diet would
also
eliminate many foods.

"Nonsense. If this were true, you could lose weight with the "ALL BIG
MAC"
diet in which you can eat nothing but Big Macs since such a diet would
also
eliminate many foods. "

Yes, you got that right. First you have critics complaining that you
can't lose weight on Atkins because of the unlimited fatty high calorie
foods one can eat on Atkins, like steak, butter, cream, cheese, etc.
Then this imbecile comes along and says the reason you lose weight is
that once you cut out most carbs, there's nothing left to eat! LOL

Yawn...

--
Bob

Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

"nonopalerobo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why do some people lose weight on this diet? Is there some magical
phenomenon that occurs in the body when high carbohydrate foods are
abolished? No. The Atkins diet essentially eliminates several foods and
food groups like fruits, cereals, breads, grains, starches, baked goods,
dairy products, starchy vegetables, and sweets. This simply translates
into a significant daily calorie reduction - the basis of any weight loss
diet. Any reduction of calories - whether from protein, carbohydrate or
fat - will result in weight loss. The basic weight loss formula is:
calories burned must exceed calories consumed. Easily done when the
majority of the foods on a typical day's menu are eliminated. There's
nothing revolutionary about this regimen.

http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/info/diets/AtkinsDiet.php

There's more to it than that. Dr. Atkins plainly pointed out that humans
(and other mammals) burn carbohydrates for fuel. Excess carbs are stored as
fat. When there is a carb definciency, the body turns to the stored fat.

Cows basically eat grain. Ever see a skinny one? Tigers eat meat. Ever
see a fat one? In general, I think you would have to agree that there are
more fat cows than tigers.

Jim Bard said:

I think you would have to agree that there are
more fat cows than tigers.

Not in a low-carb NG :-) j/k

nonopalerobo said:

The Atkins diet essentially eliminates several foods and
food groups like fruits, cereals, breads, grains, starches, baked goods,
dairy products, starchy vegetables, and sweets.

The group's low carb cookbook contains many of these, including dairy,
desserts, cheesecake, cakes, bread, biscuits, sweets.
http://www.camacdonald.com/lc/cookbookdownload.html

Conclusion: You are a moron.

gtoomey

nonopalerobo said:

Why do some people lose weight on this diet? Is there some magical
phenomenon that occurs in the body when high carbohydrate foods are
abolished? No. The Atkins diet essentially eliminates several foods

and

Quoted message said:

food groups like fruits, cereals, breads, grains, starches, baked

goods,

Quoted message said:

dairy products, starchy vegetables, and sweets. This simply

translates

Quoted message said:

into a significant daily calorie reduction - the basis of any weight
loss diet. Any reduction of calories - whether from protein,
carbohydrate or fat - will result in weight loss. The basic weight

loss

Quoted message said:

formula is: calories burned must exceed calories consumed. Easily

done

Quoted message said:

when the majority of the foods on a typical day's menu are

eliminated.

Quoted message said:

There's nothing revolutionary about this regimen.

http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/info/diets/AtkinsDiet.php

Before you wax eloquent about a diet, you should become more familiar
with the diet. The Atkins diet "abolishes" no foods. It certainly does
not "abolish" fruits or dairy products.

And if calories are the only salient point in weight gain or loss, why
does specifically restricting calories fail in 95 or more percent of
cases when people try to apply it in the real world?

And there is nothing revolutionary about understanding the roles of
hormones in regulation fat storage in the human body. We've known the
ins and outs of the endocrine system for generations. We know what high
high-GL carbs do to blood glucose levels, and we know that the pancreas
produces insulin in response to high blood glucose levels, and we know
that elevated insulin levels causes the body to store fat. There is
nothing revolutionary here except that we now recognize that
*calories*, in and of themselves, have little no impact on the
insulin/glucagon balance.

If calories, in and of themselves, triggered fat storage and/or fat
use, tell us exactly what is the bio-mechanism that interprets an
excess or a deficiency of calories. And tell us exactly what is the
specifically process that then causes the body to store or use fat in
direct response to the calories available. Explain to us the specific
cascade of bio-chemical events that is triggered by calories and ends
up in the body knowing to store or us fat. What is it about calories
that triggers fat loss of gain?

TC

[email hidden] a écrit :

Quoted message said:

And if calories are the only salient point in weight gain or loss, why
does specifically restricting calories fail in 95 or more percent of
cases when people try to apply it in the real world?

^^^
....To blame insulin as the sole contributor to obesity is not only
ludicrous, it's irresponsible thinking. What about all those days when
we got into our cars, sat at the office all day, got the supersize meal
from the drive-through, "remote-controlled" the TV all night while
devouring ice cream to comfort our stress and emotions? Might this be a
better explanation for rampant obesity in America? Obesity is an
extremely complex issue. It has to do not only with excess consumption
of calories and lack of exercise, but also genetics, psychological
issues, social issues, medical problems and so many other things. The
fact that normal portion sizes at restaurants are growing ever more
outrageous, and that high calorie, high fat foods are cheaper and more
accessible than ever doesn't help either. Obesity is not a simple issue
and insulin is not the cause...

....

Quoted message said:

We know what high
high-GL carbs do to blood glucose levels, and we know that the pancreas
produces insulin in response to high blood glucose levels, and we know
that elevated insulin levels causes the body to store fat....

.... In Japan, carbohydrates compose the overwhelming majority of daily
caloric intake. High carb foods like grains, rice, and vegetables are
daily staples of Japanese life, and intake of high protein, high fat
animal products is minimal. In contrast to the reported "evils" of
carbohydrates touted by low carb plans, Japan has one of the lowest
rates of obesity, heart disease, cancer and diabetes in the world...

(http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/info/diets/AtkinsDiet.php)

Perdu a écrit :
....

Quoted message said:

The most weight I had ever lost was on induction. With eating a LOT of
calories from fat and meats and eggs and bacon.

Were you eating less calories before starting induction ?

nonopalerobo said:

[email hidden] a écrit :

Quoted message said:

And if calories are the only salient point in weight gain or loss,

why

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

does specifically restricting calories fail in 95 or more percent

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cases when people try to apply it in the real world?

^^^
...To blame insulin as the sole contributor to obesity is not only
ludicrous, it's irresponsible thinking. What about all those days

when

Quoted message said:

we got into our cars, sat at the office all day, got the supersize

meal

Quoted message said:

from the drive-through, "remote-controlled" the TV all night while
devouring ice cream to comfort our stress and emotions? Might this be

a

Quoted message said:

better explanation for rampant obesity in America?

Ice cream, chips, coke, fries.... they all cause high blood glucose
levels which cause high insulin secretions which cause guess what,
obesity and diabetes. Exercise helps to use up some blood glucose, but
it is way more sensical to not overload on carbs in the first place,
don't ya think?

Obesity is an

Quoted message said:

extremely complex issue. It has to do not only with excess

consumption

Quoted message said:

of calories and lack of exercise, but also genetics, psychological
issues, social issues, medical problems and so many other things.

Well, of course it is complex. Eat less and exercise more, right? Hang
on, that is pretty simple and it doesn't seem to work in more than 95%
of cases. So it must be complex, then. Genetics - we are genetically
pre-disposed to get fat on a high carb diet. Psychological - we've been
brainwashed to believe that if you can't lose weight on a low-fat diet,
it is your fault, you lie or cheat or just are too weak minded, right?
Social issues - you just are too poor or ignorant to know better and
eat low-fat. Medical - doctors recieve little or no training in
nutrition.

The

Quoted message said:

fact that normal portion sizes at restaurants are growing ever more
outrageous, and that high calorie, high fat foods are cheaper and

more

Quoted message said:

accessible than ever doesn't help either. Obesity is not a simple

issue

Quoted message said:

and insulin is not the cause...

High fat foods are cheaper? Cheaper than pasta, white bread, soda?
Yeah, right!

Quoted message said:

...

Quoted message said:

We know what high
high-GL carbs do to blood glucose levels, and we know that the

pancreas

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

produces insulin in response to high blood glucose levels, and we

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that elevated insulin levels causes the body to store fat....

... In Japan, carbohydrates compose the overwhelming majority of

daily

Quoted message said:

caloric intake. High carb foods like grains, rice, and vegetables are

Quoted message said:

daily staples of Japanese life, and intake of high protein, high fat
animal products is minimal. In contrast to the reported "evils" of
carbohydrates touted by low carb plans, Japan has one of the lowest
rates of obesity, heart disease, cancer and diabetes in the world...

(http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/info/diets/AtkinsDiet.php)

You are wrong there. A typical Japanese meal has meat or fish at the
centre of the meal. It is not necessarily low-fat. And it is not
necessarily high-carb overall. The only time that rice becomes the main
part of a meal is in times of hardship when meat and fish is
unavailable.

TC

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] a écrit :
And if calories are the only salient point in weight gain or loss, why
does specifically restricting calories fail in 95 or more percent of
cases when people try to apply it in the real world?

It does work in all cases. You lose weight. That's not the same as
maintaining weight. It doesn't work in the real world because people
don't consistently apply it in the real world.

"nonopalerobo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] a écrit :

Quoted message said:

And if calories are the only salient point in weight gain or loss, why
does specifically restricting calories fail in 95 or more percent of
cases when people try to apply it in the real world?

^^^
...To blame insulin as the sole contributor to obesity is not only
ludicrous, it's irresponsible thinking. What about all those days when
we got into our cars, sat at the office all day, got the supersize meal
from the drive-through, "remote-controlled" the TV all night while
devouring ice cream to comfort our stress and emotions? Might this be a
better explanation for rampant obesity in America? Obesity is an
extremely complex issue. It has to do not only with excess consumption
of calories and lack of exercise, but also genetics, psychological
issues, social issues, medical problems and so many other things. The
fact that normal portion sizes at restaurants are growing ever more
outrageous, and that high calorie, high fat foods are cheaper and more
accessible than ever doesn't help either. Obesity is not a simple issue
and insulin is not the cause...

...

Quoted message said:

We know what high
high-GL carbs do to blood glucose levels, and we know that the pancreas
produces insulin in response to high blood glucose levels, and we know
that elevated insulin levels causes the body to store fat....

... In Japan, carbohydrates compose the overwhelming majority of daily
caloric intake. High carb foods like grains, rice, and vegetables are
daily staples of Japanese life, and intake of high protein, high fat
animal products is minimal. In contrast to the reported "evils" of
carbohydrates touted by low carb plans, Japan has one of the lowest
rates of obesity, heart disease, cancer and diabetes in the world...

(http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/info/diets/AtkinsDiet.php)

For people with carbohydrate intolerance, insulin is the major driving force
in increasing appetite and hijacking the satiety response.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8665479&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10849571&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10736615&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9892988&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8932921&dopt=Abstract
http://www.upenn.edu/researchatpenn/article.php?661&hlt
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15148064
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15148063
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15533250
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15553308
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15505128
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15380496
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12106620
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12640371

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

Here's an interesting report on the Japanese that live longest, the
Okinawans. Seems they eat a lot of fresh green and yellow vegetables.
Didn't see anything about eating lots of carbs. Mmmmm.
Interesting, sounds like my Atkins dinner last night, which was
flounder prepared with green olives, parsley and lemons, with a side of
zuchinni and yellow squash and a salad. Of course the Atkins
detractors would prefer to think that everyone on Atkins is eating pork
chops fried in lard.

BTW, I wonder if anyone at Atkins Nutritional is aware that the UK
website referenced in this thread by the imbeciles is using their name
and logo on their website. I think I'll send Atkins an email!

Stacey Bender said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] a écrit :
And if calories are the only salient point in weight gain or loss, why
does specifically restricting calories fail in 95 or more percent of
cases when people try to apply it in the real world?

It does work in all cases. You lose weight. That's not the same as
maintaining weight. It doesn't work in the real world because people
don't consistently apply it in the real world.

A Type II diabetic friend of mine is _toying_ with the idea of losing
weight.

He is about 300 lbs and loves to eat. Meals and snacks.

I told him that if he lost weight, and wanted to keep it off, he could
never eat as much as he was used to.

He thought about that and wondered if it was worth it. So, he is still
toying with the idea of losing weight.

I probably should have not told him about the fact that keeping weight
off is akin to work or effort as much as losing some weight.

I too have a problem of liking to eatt, so I think I know what that is
about.

jbuch said:

A Type II diabetic friend of mine is _toying_ with the idea of losing
weight.

He is about 300 lbs and loves to eat. Meals and snacks.

Most of us love to eat. The brain is wired to love food.

Quoted message said:

I told him that if he lost weight, and wanted to keep it off, he could
never eat as much as he was used to.

He thought about that and wondered if it was worth it. So, he is still
toying with the idea of losing weight.

It's an interesting calculation. One that I have brought up here before.
The people who replied thought the short and long term benefits were
clearly for thinness. But I don't think most people see it that way.

Quoted message said:

I probably should have not told him about the fact that keeping weight
off is akin to work or effort as much as losing some weight.

More I think.

Quoted message said:

I too have a problem of liking to eatt, so I think I know what that is
about.

Most all of us do.

jbuch <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> Stacey Bender wrote:
:>
:> >
:> >> [email hidden] a écrit :
:> >> And if calories are the only salient point in weight gain or
:> >> loss, why does specifically restricting calories fail in 95 or
:> >> more percent of cases when people try to apply it in the real
:> >> world?
:> >
:> >
:> > It does work in all cases. You lose weight. That's not the same as
:> > maintaining weight. It doesn't work in the real world because
:> > people don't consistently apply it in the real world.
:>
:> A Type II diabetic friend of mine is _toying_ with the idea of losing
:> weight.
:>
:> He is about 300 lbs and loves to eat. Meals and snacks.

I was in the same boat in 2001 but I weighed 367 lbs...

:>
:> I told him that if he lost weight, and wanted to keep it off, he
:> could never eat as much as he was used to.
:>
:> He thought about that and wondered if it was worth it. So, he is
:> still toying with the idea of losing weight.

Apparently, he hasn't realized how diabetes can kill a person....going
blind, having limbs removed, kidney failure...can't get it up....and then
there are things called strokes and heart attacks....all of this will be in
his future just because is loves to eat. Yep.

Perhaps you should tell him that he might not be able to eat as much all the
time, as he surely does now, but the price for weight loss is not
condemnation to hell. it is not a life where he won't be able to enjoy
food. My life after 142 lbs of fat loss is infinitely better than before.

:>
:> I probably should have not told him about the fact that keeping
:> weight off is akin to work or effort as much as losing some weight.
:>

Perhaps you should have painted a slightly different picture...eating is
only one way to enjoy life, and he'll always be able to get good food...

:> I too have a problem of liking to eatt, so I think I know what that
:> is about.

Then why did you leave him with such a dismal view? Methinks you can do a
better job if you try....

nonopalerobo said:

. The basic weight loss
formula is: calories burned must exceed calories consumed.

Sorry, but that is too symple. Also, people will often say a calorie
is a calorie. Or cite the first law of thermodynamics. Of course, that
theory is basically irrefutable for all our collective knowledge but
that the problem is that this scientific law is being grossly
misapplied.

Issue 1: The body is not a perfect system. We leak all over, our
lungs, our noses, and more importantly our genitalia and our anuses
constantly expunge matter. It is uncontestable that fat is turned into
ketoids and we release those ketoids is all sorts of different ways
without necessarily storing it as fat.

Issue 2: Calories are not a physical entity, they are a measure of
potential energy. However, we don't burn "fat", our cells utilize
ketones and glucose. Furthermore there at least 4 different path ways
that foods become usable energy, and by definition, there are most
likely as many discrete levels of efficiency for all these processes.
Two of these are dramatically different in nature (ketones vs.
glucose) which makes the assumption of equal efficiency suspicious.

Issue 3: A calorie is _not_ equal to how or why your body stores fat.
One is meaure of heat, and the other is a complicated metobolic
process. We are concerned with storing fat. It is on its face an
improper comparison.

Frankly, there have been documented studies which demonstrate that
equal calorie diets based on different caloric composition result in
different degrees of weight loss. It's not magic. Its not a subversion
of physics. It's simple biology. Our body has two ways of processing
energy and demonstrates different propensity for fat storage with each
one. It's not a stretch unless you're insisting on a naive model of of
how the body operates.