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Metabolic Syndrome/diet

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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15 May 2005
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21 May 2005
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Goomba38
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  1. I recently went to a continuing education seminar on Metabolic Syndrome.
    Some of the "stats" mentioned were that:

    -In America, 90% of food dollars are spent on processed foods.

    -In 1900, sugar consumption was 12 pounds/year, but in 2000 that had
    reached 150 pounds/year. So much of that can certainly explain why
    we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something unheard of
    in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    -Each ounce of regular soda contains 1 teaspoon of sugar. Kinda makes
    that 32 ounce BigGulp more unappealing, huh?

    -The average time spent preparing dinner for a family of 4 was 15 minutes.

    -By 2010, 75% will not know how to cook.

    While of course I do buy processed foods (even bread is
    "processed"😉, I have to say that I do NOT spend anywhere near 90% of my
    food dollars on them. But I can certainly believe that many do.
    For years I've worried about the diets of children who don't drink
    near the quantity of milk (or consume equal quality veggies for that
    needed calcium) yet drink multiple sodas a day. We're going to see a
    huge problem with osteoporosis in coming years. The bones kids and teens
    develop in their youth are going to be what they have to work with in
    later years.
    One comment the speaker made that impressed me significantly was
    "The more time spent in the kitchen, the healthier you'll be." Consider
    that it takes more time (yet not necessarily excessive, IMO) it takes to
    prepare food, the less "processed" it is. What are we in such a rush
    about (night after night after night??)... more television and computer
    time? Perhaps cooking should be viewed as an activity to share, rather
    than something just to get through (heat it up, chow down, hit that
    couch early)
    I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but this topic is concerning
    to me.

    Goomba

  2. Goomba38 wrote:

    snip

    Quoted message said:

    -In 1900, sugar consumption was 12 pounds/year, but in 2000 that had
    reached 150 pounds/year. So much of that can certainly explain why
    we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something unheard


    of

    Quoted message said:

    in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    snip

    I'm in no position to challenge the statistics you cite, but 150 pounds
    of sugar per year is bumping up on 1/2 pound per day. If accurate, that
    number is stunning.

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Kevin_Sheehy said:

    Goomba38 wrote:

    snip

    Quoted message said:

    -In 1900, sugar consumption was 12 pounds/year, but in 2000 that had
    reached 150 pounds/year. So much of that can certainly explain why
    we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something unheard


    of

    Quoted message said:

    in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    snip

    I'm in no position to challenge the statistics you cite, but 150 pounds
    of sugar per year is bumping up on 1/2 pound per day. If accurate, that
    number is stunning.

    There are people that live on soft drinks.
    At roughly 28 grams per oz., you can calculate how many 12 to 20 oz.
    sodas someone has to drink per day to meet that number when you look at
    the number of sugar grams per drink!. An average 20 oz. bottle of coke
    has nearly 2 oz. of sugar in it. It's unreal!
    I think that soft drinks are probably the #1 evil in the nation when it
    comes to sugar consumption. I rarely, if ever, buy them and usually get
    the sugar free.

    Also count toaster strudels, donuts for breakfast, sweet stuff for lunch
    and sugar laden deserts.

    It's not difficult to imagine eating 8 oz. per day when I watch what my
    (often obese) co-workers at work eat on a daily basis!

    I probably consume only a couple of lbs. per year max, but I take GREAT
    pains to avoid the stuff.
    --
    K.

    Sprout the MungBean to reply

    "I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
    see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

  4. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Kevin_Sheehy said:

    Goomba38 wrote:

    snip

    Quoted message said:

    -In 1900, sugar consumption was 12 pounds/year, but in 2000 that had
    reached 150 pounds/year. So much of that can certainly explain why
    we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something unheard


    of

    Quoted message said:

    in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    snip

    I'm in no position to challenge the statistics you cite, but 150 pounds
    of sugar per year is bumping up on 1/2 pound per day. If accurate, that
    number is stunning.

    It is. Much of it is due to overconsumption of sodas. High fructose
    corn syrup is still sugar. You get 8 teaspoons of sugar (about 40
    grams) in each 12 ounce can of soda. Lemonade and southern-style "sweet
    tea" aren't much better.

    Cindy

    --
    C.J. Fuller

    Delete the obvious to email me

  5. "Cindy Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Kevin_Sheehy said:

    Goomba38 wrote:

    snip

    Quoted message said:

    -In 1900, sugar consumption was 12 pounds/year, but in 2000 that had
    reached 150 pounds/year. So much of that can certainly explain why
    we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something unheard


    of

    Quoted message said:

    in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    snip

    I'm in no position to challenge the statistics you cite, but 150 pounds
    of sugar per year is bumping up on 1/2 pound per day. If accurate, that
    number is stunning.

    It is. Much of it is due to overconsumption of sodas. High fructose
    corn syrup is still sugar. You get 8 teaspoons of sugar (about 40
    grams) in each 12 ounce can of soda. Lemonade and southern-style "sweet
    tea" aren't much better.

    Cindy


    People don't just get a 12 oz can, they get the super mega gulp at the
    convenience store. That be 40 oz. but some is ice. Once in the morning and
    once in the afternoon makes probably 60 oz soda, or about 6 oz. Throw in
    the sugar in the donut, the candy bar snack in the afternoon, and look at
    the sugar in the commercial pasta sauce.....

    In fact, look at the sugar in most processed foods...

    del cecchi

  6. "Cindy Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Kevin_Sheehy said:

    Goomba38 wrote:

    snip

    Quoted message said:

    -In 1900, sugar consumption was 12 pounds/year, but in 2000 that
    had
    reached 150 pounds/year. So much of that can certainly explain why
    we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something
    unheard


    of

    Quoted message said:

    in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    snip

    I'm in no position to challenge the statistics you cite, but 150
    pounds
    of sugar per year is bumping up on 1/2 pound per day. If accurate,
    that
    number is stunning.

    It is. Much of it is due to overconsumption of sodas. High fructose
    corn syrup is still sugar. You get 8 teaspoons of sugar (about 40
    grams) in each 12 ounce can of soda. Lemonade and southern-style
    "sweet
    tea" aren't much better.

    Cindy

    Snapple is pretty bad too. Barely even tastes like tea.

    -T

  7. skoonj said:


    "Cindy Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It is. Much of it is due to overconsumption of sodas. High fructose
    corn syrup is still sugar. You get 8 teaspoons of sugar (about 40
    grams) in each 12 ounce can of soda. Lemonade and southern-style
    "sweet
    tea" aren't much better.

    Cindy

    Snapple is pretty bad too. Barely even tastes like tea.

    -T

    Yeah! I don't understand the popularity of that stuff. It's so
    watered down it barely tastes like anything.

    Sue(tm)
    Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

  8. Kevin_Sheehy said:

    Goomba38 wrote:

    snip

    Quoted message said:

    -In 1900, sugar consumption was 12 pounds/year, but in 2000 that had
    reached 150 pounds/year. So much of that can certainly explain why
    we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something unheard

    of

    Quoted message said:

    in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    snip

    I'm in no position to challenge the statistics you cite, but 150 pounds
    of sugar per year is bumping up on 1/2 pound per day. If accurate, that
    number is stunning.

    How many liters of coke per day? The concentrated syrup used to make
    that stuff is 25% or so sugar. (it is one of the biggest input costs in
    making coke)

    J.

  9. "jmcquown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jack Masters said:
    Kevin_Sheehy said:

    Goomba38 wrote:

    snip

    > -In 1900, sugar consumption was 12 pounds/year, but in 2000 that had
    > reached 150 pounds/year. So much of that can certainly explain why
    > we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something
    > unheard

    of

    > in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    snip

    I'm in no position to challenge the statistics you cite, but 150
    pounds of sugar per year is bumping up on 1/2 pound per day. If
    accurate, that number is stunning.

    How many liters of coke per day? The concentrated syrup used to make
    that stuff is 25% or so sugar. (it is one of the biggest input costs
    in making coke)

    J.

    Maybe they should go back to putting cocaine in Coke; every coke addict


    I've

    Quoted message said:

    ever seen was skinny as hell.

    I agree, but ban it from kids.

    Quoted message said:

    (of course I'm joking)

    I ain't ',;~}~

    Shaun aRe

  10. at Sun, 15 May 2005 16:37:05 GMT in <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] (Goomba38) wrote :

    Quoted message said:

    I recently went to a continuing education seminar on Metabolic Syndrome.
    Some of the "stats" mentioned were that:

    -In America, 90% of food dollars are spent on processed foods.

    -In 1900, sugar consumption was 12 pounds/year, but in 2000 that had
    reached 150 pounds/year.

    People often don't realise how much sugar seems to be added gratuitiously
    to almost all processed foods. Things that don't need sugar (pizza, bread,
    spaghetti sauce) are often loaded with it. Even canned stews typically
    contain sugar. Meanwhile, the amount of sugar in things that usually do
    have some is disproportionately high. Thus muffins are more like cupcakes,
    and as for cupcakes, they're more like cotton candy. I've seen many
    bakeries where cakes have more frosting than they do cake.

    And people instinctively seem to reach for the sugary foods. It always
    amazes me the percentage of people who go for danishes, donuts, turnovers,
    and other such pastries for breakfast. I've been numb-struck, when, going
    into a bakery here that produces outstanding bread - world-class stuff (and
    with no sugar) that nonetheless virtually all breakfast customers buy their
    pastries rather than the breads, in spite of the fact that the pastries,
    while good, aren't world-class by any means.

    At the height of the summer strawberry season I made strawberry shortcakes.
    I used no sugar for the strawberries - they needed none. Literally these
    strawberries tasted like candy by themselves. Well, to a one, other than
    myself, as soon as I passed them out *everybody* else reached for the sugar
    bowl and heaped tablespoons of sugar on the shortcakes. It was somewhat
    gruesome to watch.

    It's mostly accustomisation, too. I've served plenty of things with much
    less sugar than what is typically found in commercial products. If you do
    so in a situation where people don't have the opportunity to add sugar
    reflexively like they did in the situation above, I've noticed that
    initially people are taken aback, but then most of them have a widening-eye
    look (and often comments) of "Wow! That's really good." In other words,
    once they get over the shock, they quickly realise how much better the not-
    oversweet versions of things they've been used to having loaded with sugar
    really are.

    Quoted message said:

    So much of that can certainly explain why
    we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something unheard of
    in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    -Each ounce of regular soda contains 1 teaspoon of sugar. Kinda makes
    that 32 ounce BigGulp more unappealing, huh?

    An amusing demonstration is to take a can of Coke, or any other pop, and
    boil it down in front of people. When you get down to the fully-reduced
    sugar syrup, you get some pretty appalled looks from people who had no idea
    they were essentially drinking liquefied sugar.

    Quoted message said:

    -The average time spent preparing dinner for a family of 4 was 15 minutes.

    This is a symptom of a basic social problem: most companies don't pay a
    living wage. Few households can get by on a single income and thus there's
    nobody who can dedicate themselves to the domestic chores. Furthermore,
    traditional patriarchal expectations mean that the woman of the house is
    expected to tackle the domestic chores *over and above* the work she does
    now out of house. In a large percentage of families, the man's contribution
    to domestic chores is at most a token effort in spite of the fact that the
    woman is now working out of home, too. And domestic tasks don't simply go
    away - they still have to be done. So working mothers pull double-duty. Is
    it any wonder that they rely on prepared meals? By the time they get to the
    end of their day they're ready to drop.

    Making the problem worse, even in order to make ends meet, many families
    not only have to have a 2-income household but both earners have to work
    overtime. This further cuts into their time at home, time that often times
    for the woman must thus be spent entirely in doing whatever are the most
    critical domestic chores - and make no mistake, it's only the most critical
    chores that they have the time to do at all. Again, even if the man is more
    broad-minded and contributes 50% of the domestic workload - or all of it -
    often there's too little time for too many chores to be done. People are
    forced to compromise where they can.

    The biggest thing, therefore, that could be done to solve the problem is to
    force companies to pay employees a living wage on reasonable hours of work.
    We've reverted to the situation at the turn of the century. Eventually
    frustrations will come to a head and force legislation - much as they did
    then, and now as then it will probably be the women who lead the charge
    because they are the ones upon whose backs the disproportionate burden
    tends to be falling.

    --
    Alex Rast
    [email hidden]
    (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

  11. On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:37:50 -0000, [email hidden]

    (Alex Rast) said:

    People often don't realise how much sugar seems to be added gratuitiously
    to almost all processed foods. Things that don't need sugar (pizza, bread,
    spaghetti sauce) are often loaded with it. Even canned stews typically
    contain sugar. Meanwhile, the amount of sugar in things that usually do
    have some is disproportionately high. Thus muffins are more like cupcakes,
    and as for cupcakes, they're more like cotton candy. I've seen many
    bakeries where cakes have more frosting than they do cake.

    And people instinctively seem to reach for the sugary foods.

    Rats do that too. :> There is a biological predisposition to eating
    sweet foods if they are available.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    It's mostly accustomisation, too.

    Absolutely. Don't forget that most (it seems) people in the US
    started from a young age eating fluorescent, flavor-devoid,
    sugar-laden styrofoam, first thing in the morning. It's all downhill
    from there.

    The same thing happens with salt and fat. It blows my mind how many
    people think that a bag of potato chips with lunch is normal.
    Something, I guess, that is fostered by lunch counters and
    restaurants.

    Quoted message said:

    once they get over the shock, they quickly realise how much better the not-
    oversweet versions of things they've been used to having loaded with sugar
    really are.

    ditto salt

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So much of that can certainly explain why
    we're seeing young kids developing Type 2 diabetes (something unheard of
    in years past) and obesity is soaring.

    We're never 6 feet away from food. It's everywhere. People freak out
    to think they could travel for 3 hr on an airplane without something
    to eat, and better yet if it's a full meal. At school they have to
    have vending machines to make sure no one starves between classes.

    And portion sizes- wow. It used to be that if you bought premium ice
    cream in an ice cream store like Baskin Robbins, you got a tiny scoop,
    which was pretty expensive for the amount. The other day I stopped
    into one and asked for two scoops of different flavors and was shocked
    (and appalled) at the huge size of the cup and the size of the scoops.

    Quoted message said:

    This is a symptom of a basic social problem: most companies don't pay a
    living wage. Few households can get by on a single income and thus there's
    nobody who can dedicate themselves to the domestic chores. Furthermore,

    Even for those who do make a good wage, the knowledge and priorities
    aren't there. Parents don't seriously think about their influence and
    responsibility for their children's eating habits.

    Sue(tm)
    Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

  12. Alex Rast said:

    The biggest thing, therefore, that could be done to solve the problem


    is to

    Quoted message said:

    force companies to pay employees a living wage on reasonable hours of


    work.

    So, how's that going to work, exactly? How long can companies pay
    workers
    more than the work is worth before the company goes bankrupt?

    Suppose my value added to to the company is $10,000 per year (I'd like
    to think it's considerably more). The company could only pay me about
    $5,000 (plus overhead, benefits, taxes, etc.) just to break even.
    Forcing
    them to pay me minimum wage (about $10,300 these days) would give them
    a $300 loss just on my labor. I suspect the company would just do
    without
    my services in that case.

    And, to bring this back on topic (sort of), I like to limit my weekday
    dinner prep to 30 minutes or so--just 15 minutes more than the average
    quoted elsewhere. That half hour gets us a healthful and delicious
    home-cooked meal for two, often utilizing leftovers from larger
    weekend cooking efforts.

    Cindy Hamilton

  13. "Alex Rast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Making the problem worse, even in order to make ends meet, many families
    not only have to have a 2-income household but both earners have to work
    overtime. This further cuts into their time at home, time that often times
    for the woman must thus be spent entirely in doing whatever are the most
    critical domestic chores - and make no mistake, it's only the most
    critical
    chores that they have the time to do at all. Again, even if the man is
    more
    broad-minded and contributes 50% of the domestic workload - or all of it -
    often there's too little time for too many chores to be done. People are
    forced to compromise where they can.

    But in the US today, people's desired standard of living is much higher than
    it used to be. Back in the 50's our family had one car, no ac, lived in a
    small house, maybe 800 square feet, never ate out, and a vacation was
    driving to visit family in wisconsin (and baling hay when we got there).
    Now a starter home has 2 or 3 bathrooms, central air and is about 2000
    square feet. People eat out half the time and have two or three cars. They
    travel to Las Vegas, Florida, Mexico commonly. Then complain about how hard
    they have to work.

    Quoted message said:


    The biggest thing, therefore, that could be done to solve the problem is
    to
    force companies to pay employees a living wage on reasonable hours of
    work.
    We've reverted to the situation at the turn of the century. Eventually
    frustrations will come to a head and force legislation - much as they did
    then, and now as then it will probably be the women who lead the charge
    because they are the ones upon whose backs the disproportionate burden
    tends to be falling.

    Once the companies raise wages, they will have to increase prices to get the
    money to pay the wages. Customers will not be able to buy as many of their
    products because of the high prices. Jobs will be eliminated due to lack of
    demand. Now the people will have no wage instead of not a living wage. If
    there are no trade barriers, product will come in from offshore. If there
    are trade barriers, things will go on for awhile with overpaid workers (cf
    GM and Ford) until such time as trade barriers are removed or the difference
    gets large enough.

    Quoted message said:


    --
    Alex Rast
    [email hidden]
    (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

  14. Katra said:

    There are people that live on soft drinks.

    Due to shuffle of assignment, I eat lunch on a different ward. My lunch
    a couple bottles of dressing and everyone's 2 liter bottles are
    all that is in the fridge. It is a veritable forest of coke, etc. in
    there.
    How much in cups is a pound? Sugar is pretty dense.
    blacksalt

  15. Alex Rast said:

    at Sun, 15 May 2005 16:37:05 GMT in <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] (Goomba38) wrote :

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    -The average time spent preparing dinner for a family of 4 was 15 minutes.

    This is a symptom of a basic social problem: most companies don't pay a
    living wage. Few households can get by on a single income and thus there's
    nobody who can dedicate themselves to the domestic chores. Furthermore,
    traditional patriarchal expectations mean that the woman of the house is
    expected to tackle the domestic chores *over and above* the work she does
    now out of house. In a large percentage of families, the man's contribution
    to domestic chores is at most a token effort in spite of the fact that the
    woman is now working out of home, too. And domestic tasks don't simply go
    away - they still have to be done. So working mothers pull double-duty. Is
    it any wonder that they rely on prepared meals? By the time they get to the
    end of their day they're ready to drop.

    Making the problem worse, even in order to make ends meet, many families
    not only have to have a 2-income household but both earners have to work
    overtime.

    While I entirely agree, I would add that I am shocked at what people
    spend money on: ATV for *small* children, big SUV's on a single
    mother secretary's salary with vanity tags, 100$ hair cuts. I have
    no idea how these people get by...after I pay extra towards my
    mortgage principle, and stuff my retirement accounts to the max, I
    have to scrap to make airfare to the family reunion.
    An old farmer told me, once, IT AIN'T WHAT YOU EARN but what you DON'T
    SPEND, and I find it wiser and wiser the older I grow.
    blacksalt
    OBFood: Be sure to teach your kids to cook!

  16. at Wed, 18 May 2005 21:16:27 GMT in <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] (Del Cecchi) wrote :

    Quoted message said:


    "Alex Rast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Making the problem worse, even in order to make ends meet, many
    families not only have to have a 2-income household but both earners
    have to work overtime.

    But in the US today, people's desired standard of living is much higher
    than it used to be....

    I think this compounds the problem, inasmuch as people will work harder to
    remain in the social class in which they are (or desire to see themselves
    being) - compromising certain activities for the sake of material image,
    but I think that the dominant mode (in terms of the number of people
    involved) is that of families working 2 jobs to make ends meet.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The biggest thing, therefore, that could be done to solve the problem
    is to
    force companies to pay employees a living wage on reasonable hours of
    work....

    Quoted message said:

    Once the companies raise wages, they will have to increase prices to get
    the money to pay the wages. Customers will not be able to buy as many
    of their products because of the high prices. Jobs will be eliminated
    due to lack of demand. Now the people will have no wage instead of not
    a living wage. If there are no trade barriers, product will come in
    from offshore. If there are trade barriers, things will go on for
    awhile with overpaid workers (cf GM and Ford) until such time as trade
    barriers are removed or the difference gets large enough.

    One possible scenario, but you need more information to determine what will
    happen. Since wages have gone up, the demand will shift up as well (i.e.
    the quantity demanded at *any* price will increase) Thus depending on how
    much the company decided to increase prices with the higher wages, the
    quantity demanded could increase or decrease. It's therefore not a given
    that jobs would be lost. Now, if jobs *do* diminish, then one is dealing
    with a tradeoff: fewer jobs at higher pay or more jobs at lower pay. Here
    you do encounter a difficult moral choice - which is socially preferable:
    supporting a smaller population with a good livelihood or a larger
    population living at a meager subsistence? The question there boils down to
    - which is more morally valuable - the quality of life or simply life at
    any price? However, if there is an absolute tradeoff, this also implies
    that there is a fixed pool of money to go around - and that thus it is not
    a growth economy. Under a capitalist model a zero-growth economy is
    disastrous anyway, so the situation you envision presupposes a recessionary
    period in any case.

    And yes, it is necessary to have certain levels of trade barriers to
    support high wages. These trade barriers can and should go into effect
    against nations with disproportionate wages. What this encourages is the
    formation of parity trading blocs - i.e. groups of countries on more or
    less a similar economic plateau trading freely while controlling trade
    between countries of different economic plateaus. And this is a workable
    system. The EC is a good example of a successful trading bloc operating on
    this principle. It also works well for 3rd world nations. If these nations
    also form trading blocs, collective strength gives them more trade
    bargaining power against 1st world nations, especially for the commodities
    which these nations supply, and helps them to improve their own internal
    economy. So 3rd world nations aren't under the pressure of 1st world
    nations to produce for 1st world markets, and 1st world nations don't face
    outsourcing pressures.

    @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, [email hidden] (Cindy
    Hamilton) wrote :

    Quoted message said:


    So, how's that going to work, exactly? How long can companies pay
    workers
    more than the work is worth before the company goes bankrupt?

    If a living wage corresponds to paying workers more than they're worth, the
    company has made a fatal strategic mistake - they're producing a product
    for which there isn't enough market. A product which can't be produced
    profitably except by sacrificing a living wage for the employees is one
    whose value is so low as not to justify production. If employees must be
    paid a pittance, then their income and thus capacity to buy those products
    goes down, and this is the beginning of a downward spiral - reduced wages
    diminish the demand, reduced demand decreases the price that can be
    charged, diminished prices put pressure on the company to decrease wages
    still further. It's therefore necessary that the wage level necessary to
    realise a profit on the product be above some critical line in order to
    prevent this downward spiral. And this wage level is, by definition, a
    living wage - that wage at which the worker's capacity to buy a product is
    equal to their need (or if you prefer, their "natural demand"😉 for the
    product.

    Once you get into that downward spiral, the company is forced to try to
    sell products of ever-diminished value to consumers whose hard economic
    realities mean they need to make sacrifices in terms of quality or
    suitability in order to make ends meet. This is in fact what's happening in
    the food industry - people have no choice but to select foods of lower
    quality because with little time on their hands, convenience becomes such a
    priority that the extra price that they would have to pay for quality isn't
    something they can make up out of pocket and therefore the only alternative
    is to take something of lower quality. Hence McDonald's. Poor dietary
    choices are being dictated in large part by economic realities.

    --
    Alex Rast
    [email hidden]
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  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Alex Rast) said:

    People often don't realise how much sugar seems to be added
    gratuitiously to almost all processed foods. Things that don't need
    sugar (pizza, bread, spaghetti sauce) are often loaded with it. Even
    canned stews typically contain sugar.

    And salad dressing! I do not understand sugar in a vinaigrette.

    Regards,
    Ranee

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    "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

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  18. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Alex Rast) said:

    This is a symptom of a basic social problem: most companies don't pay
    a living wage. Few households can get by on a single income and thus
    there's nobody who can dedicate themselves to the domestic chores.

    I don't buy this at all. There are few people willing to sacrifice
    the big house, the nice car, the vacations, the fancy
    clothes/makeup/shoes, the dinners out, the movies, the cable, the neat
    gadgets, the latest software, the newest trinkets, the _STUFF_ so that
    one person can stay home. Then, not having that person home increases
    other expenses, like commuting costs, extra gasoline, wear and tear on
    the car, business attire, childcare, etc. Not having time to check sale
    prices and shop wisely increases reliance on whatever is available at
    whatever cost and convenience foods which are more expensive and less
    healthful. Not having someone at home to make the meals, means more
    drive through dinners. It is more honest to say that having someone
    stay at home is no longer a real priority for most western people.

    Regards,
    Ranee

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    "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

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  19. In article <[email hidden]>, "Del Cecchi"

    Quoted message said:

    But in the US today, people's desired standard of living is much
    higher than it used to be. Back in the 50's our family had one car,
    no ac, lived in a small house, maybe 800 square feet, never ate out,
    and a vacation was driving to visit family in wisconsin (and baling
    hay when we got there). Now a starter home has 2 or 3 bathrooms,
    central air and is about 2000 square feet. People eat out half the
    time and have two or three cars. They travel to Las Vegas, Florida,
    Mexico commonly. Then complain about how hard they have to work.

    Have you noticed, too, that it is odd for siblings to share a room
    anymore? We have had people ask us if we will move, or renovate this
    house to accomodate the kids. We have three rooms acting as bedrooms
    now, with this room (our computer, play, craft room) probably becoming
    our daughter's room when she gets old enough to require a bit more
    privacy. Right now, though, we have us in one room, two boys in
    another, and one son and daughter in the third. The kids figure that's
    just how people live, after all, Mama and Baba are roomies, so why
    shouldn't they have a roommate, too?

    Regards,
    Ranee

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    "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

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  20. at Thu, 19 May 2005 00:40:30 GMT in <raneemdonot-834A5E.17403018052005
    @news.harbornet.com>, [email hidden] (Ranee Mueller) wrote :

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Alex Rast) said:

    This is a symptom of a basic social problem: most companies don't pay
    a living wage. Few households can get by on a single income and thus
    there's nobody who can dedicate themselves to the domestic chores.

    I don't buy this at all. There are few people willing to sacrifice
    the big house, the nice car, the vacations, the fancy
    clothes/makeup/shoes, the dinners out, the movies, the cable, the neat
    gadgets, the latest software, the newest trinkets, the _STUFF_ so that
    one person can stay home.

    This is another aspect of the problem but I believe it is probably the
    smaller part of the issue and is only what springs to mind for most people
    because the media spin that has been put on the problem has chosen to focus
    on that group. Yes, there *are* conspicuous consumers but I think the
    majority of dual-income households do so more out of necessity than upward
    mobility.

    The conspicuous consumers receive most of the media attention simply
    because it's more visibly obvious what's going on in that situation and
    thus easier for the normal person to believe in from a common-sense POV. A
    couple struggling but managing to make ends meet on long work hours isn't
    spectacularly self-evident and doesn't present a clear picture of social
    ill. It doesn't look like anything is going wrong there until you look long
    and hard. That's not something you can condense even into a medium-length
    story in the local paper.

    There's also probably a buried aspect of our society not wanting to
    discourage what is seen as virtuous industry. For a couple to work hard in
    order to make an honest living is seen as morally upright rather than as
    evidence of a problem. Furthermore, if a society allows that same living to
    be made with less work it is seen to be decadent. Meanwhile, conspicuous
    consumption can always be seen to be decadent no matter what the work level
    necessary to achieve it. So one can always vilify the upwardly mobile. But
    criticising the social value of hard work will be seen as supplying a ready
    excuse for slacking. Nobody wants to draw a line between hard work and
    overwork.

    Even in the USA, the people who can actually afford any one of the big
    house, the nice car, the vacations, etc... are decidedly in the minority.
    Most people have to get by with a much more modest living which, if by
    third world standards is the lap of luxury, still corresponds to a
    reasonable rather than an excessive lifestyle. The difficulty we face today
    is that this reasonable lifestyle is obtained quite frequently only at the
    expense of unreasonable work hours.

    It certainly shouldn't be mandatory or expected that one family member stay
    at home. That would represent more or less a reversion to the male-
    dominated societies of the past (because, inevitably it would be a greater
    proportion of the women who would end up being the stay-at-homes). Rather,
    it should be possible to support a family on combined hours of work that
    provide realistic time for family members to attend to domestic chores
    *and* pursue non-work interests without time pressures.

    --
    Alex Rast
    [email hidden]
    (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

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