Vanachol for high Cholesterol

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: Seems to be a new product on the market... I've Googled it and it
:: reads
:: more like a nutritional supplement than a drug. Safer and Cheaper
:: than Statins, and my Physician is recommending it for a cholesterol
:: level of 250 that is not responding to diet and exercize. It's also
:: supposed to
:: raise HDL.
::
:: Even tho' it's prescription only, the cheap assed insurance company
:: won't pay for it since it's fairly new and not in their formularies!
:: It's $53.00 for a 45 day supply, about 1/3 of what the statins are
:: running and is supposed to have no harmful side effects.
::
:: The insurance companies have their heads up their asses!
::
:: Comments????

That is a combination supplement. The cholesterol lowering effect comes
probably mostly from Policosanol, which is originally a sugar cane wax
derived product. There are quite a many Policosanol studies showing it to be
very effective, but most of the studies are Cuban. If it works for you, it
is a healthier choice than statins, IMHO. You can also get separate
Policosanol, which would work also if it is derived from sugar cane wax.

Some Policosanol studies:
Castano G, Mas R, Arruzazabala ML, et al. Effects of policosanol and
pravastatin on lipid profile, platelet aggregation and endothelemia in older
hypercholesterolemic patients. Int J Clin Pharmacol Res. 1999;19:105–116.
Crespo N, Illnait J, Mas R, et al. Comparative study of the efficacy and
tolerability of policosanol and lovastatin in patients with
hypercholesterolemia and noninsulin dependent diabetes mellitus. Int J Clin
Pharmacol Res. 1999;19:117–127.
Benitez M, Romero C, Mas R, et al. A comparative study of policosanol versus
pravastatin in patients with type II hypercholesterolemia. Curr Ther Res.
1997;58:859–867.
Ortensi G, Gladstein J, Valli H, et al. A comparative study of policosanol
versus simvastatin in elderly patients with hypercholesterolemia. Curr Ther
Res. 1997;58:390–401.
Alcocer L, Fernandez L, Campos E, et al. A comparative study of policosanol
Versus acipimox in patients with type II hypercholesterolemia. Int J Tissue
React. 1999;21:85–92.
Fernandez JC, Mas R, Castano G, et al. Comparison of the efficacy, safety
and tolerability of policosanol versus fluvastatin in elderly
hypercholesterolaemic women. Clin Drug Invest. 2001;21:103–113.
Castano G, Mas R, Fernandez JC, et al. Efficacy and tolerability of
policosanol compared with lovastatin in patients with type II
hypercholesterolemia and concomitant coronary risk factors. Curr Ther Res.
2000;61:137–146.
Torres O, Agramonte AJ, Illnait J, et al. Treatment of hypercholesterolemia
in NIDDM with policosanol. Diabetes Care. 1995;18:393–397. Crespo N, Alvarez
R, Mas R, et al. Effect of policosanol on patients with
non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus and hypercholesterolemia: a pilot
study. Curr Ther Res. 1997;58:44–51.

--
Juhana

In article <[email hidden]>,

Juhana Harju said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: Seems to be a new product on the market... I've Googled it and it
:: reads
:: more like a nutritional supplement than a drug. Safer and Cheaper
:: than Statins, and my Physician is recommending it for a cholesterol
:: level of 250 that is not responding to diet and exercize. It's also
:: supposed to
:: raise HDL.
::
:: Even tho' it's prescription only, the cheap assed insurance company
:: won't pay for it since it's fairly new and not in their formularies!
:: It's $53.00 for a 45 day supply, about 1/3 of what the statins are
:: running and is supposed to have no harmful side effects.
::
:: The insurance companies have their heads up their asses!
::
:: Comments????

That is a combination supplement. The cholesterol lowering effect comes
probably mostly from Policosanol, which is originally a sugar cane wax
derived product. There are quite a many Policosanol studies showing it to be
very effective, but most of the studies are Cuban. If it works for you, it
is a healthier choice than statins, IMHO. You can also get separate
Policosanol, which would work also if it is derived from sugar cane wax.

Fascinating!
I don't know if it works yet. I just started taking it yesterday.
Doc says, like many compounds of this type, to give it a couple of
months before doing another blood level to see.

She knew I'd not take a statin. ;-)

I'll look more for Policosanol, thanks.
I was not familiar with it at all!

Impressive list of studies below.
Cheers!

Quoted message said:

Some Policosanol studies:
Castano G, Mas R, Arruzazabala ML, et al. Effects of policosanol and
pravastatin on lipid profile, platelet aggregation and endothelemia in older
hypercholesterolemic patients. Int J Clin Pharmacol Res. 1999;19:105–116.
Crespo N, Illnait J, Mas R, et al. Comparative study of the efficacy and
tolerability of policosanol and lovastatin in patients with
hypercholesterolemia and noninsulin dependent diabetes mellitus. Int J Clin
Pharmacol Res. 1999;19:117–127.
Benitez M, Romero C, Mas R, et al. A comparative study of policosanol versus
pravastatin in patients with type II hypercholesterolemia. Curr Ther Res.
1997;58:859–867.
Ortensi G, Gladstein J, Valli H, et al. A comparative study of policosanol
versus simvastatin in elderly patients with hypercholesterolemia. Curr Ther
Res. 1997;58:390–401.
Alcocer L, Fernandez L, Campos E, et al. A comparative study of policosanol
Versus acipimox in patients with type II hypercholesterolemia. Int J Tissue
React. 1999;21:85–92.
Fernandez JC, Mas R, Castano G, et al. Comparison of the efficacy, safety
and tolerability of policosanol versus fluvastatin in elderly
hypercholesterolaemic women. Clin Drug Invest. 2001;21:103–113.
Castano G, Mas R, Fernandez JC, et al. Efficacy and tolerability of
policosanol compared with lovastatin in patients with type II
hypercholesterolemia and concomitant coronary risk factors. Curr Ther Res.
2000;61:137–146.
Torres O, Agramonte AJ, Illnait J, et al. Treatment of hypercholesterolemia
in NIDDM with policosanol. Diabetes Care. 1995;18:393–397. Crespo N, Alvarez
R, Mas R, et al. Effect of policosanol on patients with
non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus and hypercholesterolemia: a pilot
study. Curr Ther Res. 1997;58:44–51.

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Juhana Harju" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::::: Seems to be a new product on the market... I've Googled it and it
::::: reads
::::: more like a nutritional supplement than a drug. Safer and Cheaper
::::: than Statins, and my Physician is recommending it for a
::::: cholesterol level of 250 that is not responding to diet and
::::: exercize. It's also supposed to
::::: raise HDL.
:::::
::::: Even tho' it's prescription only, the cheap assed insurance
::::: company won't pay for it since it's fairly new and not in their
::::: formularies! It's $53.00 for a 45 day supply, about 1/3 of what
::::: the statins are running and is supposed to have no harmful side
::::: effects.
:::::
::::: The insurance companies have their heads up their asses!
:::::
::::: Comments????
:::
::: That is a combination supplement. The cholesterol lowering effect
::: comes probably mostly from Policosanol, which is originally a sugar
::: cane wax derived product. There are quite a many Policosanol
::: studies showing it to be very effective, but most of the studies
::: are Cuban. If it works for you, it is a healthier choice than
::: statins, IMHO. You can also get separate Policosanol, which would
::: work also if it is derived from sugar cane wax.
::
:: Fascinating!
:: I don't know if it works yet. I just started taking it yesterday.
:: Doc says, like many compounds of this type, to give it a couple of
:: months before doing another blood level to see.
::
:: She knew I'd not take a statin. ;-)
::
:: I'll look more for Policosanol, thanks.
:: I was not familiar with it at all!
::
:: Impressive list of studies below.
:: Cheers!

There is also Policosanol made from beeswax. The sugar cane wax derived
product is said to work better, so I recommed the latter. It would be nice
to hear your experiences after taking the second blood test.

--
Juhana

:::
::: Some Policosanol studies:
::: Castano G, Mas R, Arruzazabala ML, et al. Effects of policosanol and
::: pravastatin on lipid profile, platelet aggregation and endothelemia
::: in older hypercholesterolemic patients. Int J Clin Pharmacol Res.
::: 1999;19:105–116. Crespo N, Illnait J, Mas R, et al. Comparative
::: study of the efficacy and tolerability of policosanol and
::: lovastatin in patients with hypercholesterolemia and noninsulin
::: dependent diabetes mellitus. Int J Clin Pharmacol Res.
::: 1999;19:117–127.
::: Benitez M, Romero C, Mas R, et al. A comparative study of
::: policosanol versus pravastatin in patients with type II
::: hypercholesterolemia. Curr Ther Res. 1997;58:859–867.
::: Ortensi G, Gladstein J, Valli H, et al. A comparative study of
::: policosanol versus simvastatin in elderly patients with
::: hypercholesterolemia. Curr Ther Res. 1997;58:390–401.
::: Alcocer L, Fernandez L, Campos E, et al. A comparative study of
::: policosanol Versus acipimox in patients with type II
::: hypercholesterolemia. Int J Tissue React. 1999;21:85–92.
::: Fernandez JC, Mas R, Castano G, et al. Comparison of the efficacy,
::: safety and tolerability of policosanol versus fluvastatin in elderly
::: hypercholesterolaemic women. Clin Drug Invest. 2001;21:103–113.
::: Castano G, Mas R, Fernandez JC, et al. Efficacy and tolerability of
::: policosanol compared with lovastatin in patients with type II
::: hypercholesterolemia and concomitant coronary risk factors. Curr
::: Ther Res. 2000;61:137–146.
::: Torres O, Agramonte AJ, Illnait J, et al. Treatment of
::: hypercholesterolemia in NIDDM with policosanol. Diabetes Care.
::: 1995;18:393–397. Crespo N, Alvarez R, Mas R, et al. Effect of
::: policosanol on patients with non-insulin-dependent diabetes
::: mellitus and hypercholesterolemia: a pilot study. Curr Ther Res.
::: 1997;58:44–51.
:: --
:: Om.
::
:: "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]."
:: -Jack Nicholson

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Seems to be a new product on the market... I've Googled it and it reads
more like a nutritional supplement than a drug. Safer and Cheaper than
Statins, and my Physician is recommending it for a cholesterol level of
250 that is not responding to diet and exercize. It's also supposed to
raise HDL.

Even tho' it's prescription only, the cheap assed insurance company
won't pay for it since it's fairly new and not in their formularies!
It's $53.00 for a 45 day supply, about 1/3 of what the statins are
running and is supposed to have no harmful side effects.

The insurance companies have their heads up their asses!

Comments????
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack

Nicholson

This is from somebody who took it.

"Rating: - Watch out for bleeding
You can see the warning about aspirin therapy and policosanol. This stuff
acted like a blood thinner on me and I do not take aspirin. I only took one
tablet a day and started getting nosebleeds. When I stopped taking it, the
nosebleeds stopped. I'm not saying this will happen to everyone but you do
need to be aware of the potential problem. I would certainly not take this
stuff within a couple of ... Read More"

I think it is great that more people are taking it and when a million people
start taking it then we can see the real safety record.
Who ever told you that a new drug is safer compared to a not so new drug
that millions of people have taken and the real safety record is noted?

Robert wrote:
:: "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: Seems to be a new product on the market... I've Googled it and it
::: reads more like a nutritional supplement than a drug. Safer and
::: Cheaper than Statins, and my Physician is recommending it for a
::: cholesterol level of 250 that is not responding to diet and
::: exercize. It's also supposed to raise HDL.
:::
::: Even tho' it's prescription only, the cheap assed insurance company
::: won't pay for it since it's fairly new and not in their formularies!
::: It's $53.00 for a 45 day supply, about 1/3 of what the statins are
::: running and is supposed to have no harmful side effects.
:::
::: The insurance companies have their heads up their asses!
:::
::: Comments????
::: --
::: Om.
:::
::: "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]."
::: -Jack Nicholson
::
:: This is from somebody who took it.
::
:: "Rating: - Watch out for bleeding
:: You can see the warning about aspirin therapy and policosanol. This
:: stuff acted like a blood thinner on me and I do not take aspirin. I
:: only took one tablet a day and started getting nosebleeds. When I
:: stopped taking it, the nosebleeds stopped. I'm not saying this will
:: happen to everyone but you do need to be aware of the potential
:: problem. I would certainly not take this stuff within a couple of
:: ... Read More"
::
:: I think it is great that more people are taking it and when a
:: million people start taking it then we can see the real safety
:: record.
:: Who ever told you that a new drug is safer compared to a not so new
:: drug that millions of people have taken and the real safety record
:: is noted?

I am not suggesting that you take Aspirin and Policosanol together, but this
might still be of interest to you:

"_Aspirin and Policosanol Together?_

*Q* A salesperson at a health food store advised me that policosanol should
not be taken by someone on aspirin therapy, because of negative side
effects. I had not heard of this. Is it true?

Michael, Shelton, CT
*A* A study conducted a few years ago in Cuba found that when aspirin
therapy (100 mg/day) was combined with policosanol therapy (20 mg/day), the
results showed some advantages compared to the monotherapies.* The results
were additive. Importantly, coagulation time did not change significantly in
any group. Nor were there any withdrawals from the trial among the 47
healthy volunteers. There were no significant side effects.

Policosanol inhibits the formation of blood clots and may work
synergistically with aspirin in this respect. A high percentage of strokes
are of the clotting kind. When aspirin and policosanol were compared,
aspirin was better at reducing one type of platelet aggregation (the
clumping together of blood platelets), but policosanol was better at
inhibiting another type. Together, aspirin and policosanol worked better
than either one alone.

The salesperson you spoke to was probably cautioning you about the possible
side effects of aspirin, which can include gastrointestinal bleeding. We
know of no aggravation caused by policosanol, but if you’re taking aspirin,
it’s advisable to check periodically with your physician.

*Arruzazabala ML, Valdes S, Mas R, Carbajal D, Fernandez L. Comparative
study of policosanol, aspirin, and the combination therapy
policosanol-aspirin on platelet aggregation in healthy volunteers. Pharmacol
Res 1997 Oct;36(4):293-7."

Source: http://www.life-enhancement.com/article_template.asp?ID=125&type=FAQ

--
Juhana

So, Juhana, not that there is anything wrong with the policosanol
studies, but how is relying on Cuban government sponsored studies of a
product of sugar cane like statin studies by a pharmaceuticals company?
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

-elgoog

In article <[email hidden]>,

Robert said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Seems to be a new product on the market... I've Googled it and it reads
more like a nutritional supplement than a drug. Safer and Cheaper than
Statins, and my Physician is recommending it for a cholesterol level of
250 that is not responding to diet and exercize. It's also supposed to
raise HDL.

Even tho' it's prescription only, the cheap assed insurance company
won't pay for it since it's fairly new and not in their formularies!
It's $53.00 for a 45 day supply, about 1/3 of what the statins are
running and is supposed to have no harmful side effects.

The insurance companies have their heads up their asses!

Comments????
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack

Nicholson

This is from somebody who took it.

"Rating: - Watch out for bleeding

Yes. The reading I've done did say that.
Fish oils can also present the same danger!

Quoted message said:

You can see the warning about aspirin therapy and policosanol. This stuff
acted like a blood thinner on me and I do not take aspirin. I only took one
tablet a day and started getting nosebleeds. When I stopped taking it, the
nosebleeds stopped. I'm not saying this will happen to everyone but you do
need to be aware of the potential problem. I would certainly not take this
stuff within a couple of ... Read More"

I think it is great that more people are taking it and when a million people
start taking it then we can see the real safety record.
Who ever told you that a new drug is safer compared to a not so new drug
that millions of people have taken and the real safety record is noted?

<lol> I know better than that!!! That was why I read up on it before
allowing her to call the 'scrip into the pharmacy I use.

In most cases, I will NOT try a new drug until it's been on the market
for a few years! Recent disasters, especially with diet pills, has
taught the public a lot about jumping on a new drug when it first comes
out! I don't trust drug companies...

The reason I'm enthusiastic about this one is because it appears to be
OH so much safer than statins which are hepatotoxic, and the ingredients
read more like a good nutritional supplement than a "drug". The fact
that it takes a good 2 months to show real effects also bears that out.

Nutritonal therapy takes time to take effect. Vitamin and amino acid
therapies are a perfect example, as is the use of Glucosamine Sulfate.
Even HGH takes time to work in elderly patients. ;-)

But, the effects tend to be real healing as oppose to "treatment" that
just treats symptoms rather than actually helping the body to help
itself.

See what I mean?

I sure to value all opionions tho' and appreciate the input! I'll watch
for that, and maybe add a PT/PTT to my monthly bloodwork. PT/PTT measure
blood coagulation times. I'll also make sure I do a platelet count.

Cheers!

Quoted message said:

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

You might be interested to know on page B17 of New York's Newsday
newspaper (March 1, 2005), AHA spokesperson Dr.
Richard Stein states: "What we've learned in the last 15 years is that
LDL has to be
oxidized in the vessel wall... [in order for plaque to accumulate and
become dangerous]."

You only have to worry about eating oxidized cholesterol or the
cholesterol becoming oxidized inside your body (the result of lipid
peroxidation, usually causede by dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids).
These kinds of substances may be inhibiting the proper function of your
liver, so you could be damaging your liver while the cholesterol is
slighty lower, but oxidized, and therefore nearly as dangerous as it
would be if the level was a bit higher. In other words, a "big
negative" with no substantial positive.

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Robert said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Seems to be a new product on the market... I've Googled it and it

reads

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more like a nutritional supplement than a drug. Safer and Cheaper than
Statins, and my Physician is recommending it for a cholesterol level

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

250 that is not responding to diet and exercize. It's also supposed to
raise HDL.

Even tho' it's prescription only, the cheap assed insurance company
won't pay for it since it's fairly new and not in their formularies!
It's $53.00 for a 45 day supply, about 1/3 of what the statins are
running and is supposed to have no harmful side effects.

The insurance companies have their heads up their asses!

Comments????
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack

Nicholson

This is from somebody who took it.

"Rating: - Watch out for bleeding

Yes. The reading I've done did say that.
Fish oils can also present the same danger!

Quoted message said:

You can see the warning about aspirin therapy and policosanol. This

stuff

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

acted like a blood thinner on me and I do not take aspirin. I only took

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tablet a day and started getting nosebleeds. When I stopped taking it,

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

nosebleeds stopped. I'm not saying this will happen to everyone but you

do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

need to be aware of the potential problem. I would certainly not take

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stuff within a couple of ... Read More"

I think it is great that more people are taking it and when a million

people

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

start taking it then we can see the real safety record.
Who ever told you that a new drug is safer compared to a not so new drug
that millions of people have taken and the real safety record is noted?

<lol> I know better than that!!! That was why I read up on it before
allowing her to call the 'scrip into the pharmacy I use.

Lol. You can't read up on the safety record of a new drug.
All new drugs are safe until people start dying from it and then they are
unsafe.
All new drugs must be safe before they are released to the public.

Quoted message said:

In most cases, I will NOT try a new drug until it's been on the market
for a few years! Recent disasters, especially with diet pills, has
taught the public a lot about jumping on a new drug when it first comes
out! I don't trust drug companies...

The reason I'm enthusiastic about this one is because it appears to be
OH so much safer than statins which are hepatotoxic, and the ingredients
read more like a good nutritional supplement than a "drug". The fact
that it takes a good 2 months to show real effects also bears that out.

Nutritonal therapy takes time to take effect. Vitamin and amino acid
therapies are a perfect example, as is the use of Glucosamine Sulfate.
Even HGH takes time to work in elderly patients. ;-)

Nutritional supplements are also notorious as to purity standards. That
compound is notorious for variable concentrations.

Quoted message said:

But, the effects tend to be real healing as oppose to "treatment" that
just treats symptoms rather than actually helping the body to help
itself.

See what I mean?

If you want to buy into that then for it. Most of that is all sales hype for
the so called natural remedies that cost an arm and a leg.
It costs more because its natural remember and if it costs more then it must
be good. That's stuff is full of "go hug a tree" [censored].
If it works and it can be proved to be good and it has less side effects
then good but the jury is still out.
Lets experiment on your mother and see.

Quoted message said:

I sure to value all opionions tho' and appreciate the input! I'll watch
for that, and maybe add a PT/PTT to my monthly bloodwork. PT/PTT measure
blood coagulation times. I'll also make sure I do a platelet count.

Cheers!

Platelet aggregation is not monitored with a PT PTT. Aspirin does not effect
them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack

Nicholson

Robert wrote:
:: "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...

::: Nutritonal therapy takes time to take effect. Vitamin and amino acid
::: therapies are a perfect example, as is the use of Glucosamine
::: Sulfate. Even HGH takes time to work in elderly patients. ;-)
:: Nutritional supplements are also notorious as to purity standards.
:: That compound is notorious for variable concentrations.
:::
::: But, the effects tend to be real healing as oppose to "treatment"
::: that just treats symptoms rather than actually helping the body to
::: help itself.
:::
::: See what I mean?
:: If you want to buy into that then for it. Most of that is all sales
:: hype for the so called natural remedies that cost an arm and a leg.
:: It costs more because its natural remember and if it costs more then
:: it must be good. That's stuff is full of "go hug a tree" [censored].
:: If it works and it can be proved to be good and it has less side
:: effects then good but the jury is still out.
:: Lets experiment on your mother and see.

You forgot the iatrogenic deaths. Iatrogenic deaths - deaths caused by
medication errors, medical errors and non-error adverse reactions to
prescribed drugs - is the third largest cause of death in the U.S. That is
confirmed also by published scientific articles. It is no wonder that people
are seeking treatment methods that are safer.

--
Juhana

In article <[email hidden]>,

Juhana Harju said:

There is also Policosanol made from beeswax. The sugar cane wax derived
product is said to work better, so I recommed the latter. It would be nice
to hear your experiences after taking the second blood test.

--
Juhana

Do you by any chance know how quickly this is supposed to work?
My doctor told me 60 days.

I filled the 'scrip night before last and noted that the bottle said to
take two before retiring or as recommended by your physician. Dr. R.
said to take 1 twice per day. So, I took one before going to work that
night, and one the next morning when I got home from work right before
going to bed.

I did not take one when I got up as I wanted to run a base line
Cholesterol last night and did not expect to see any results yet.

My cholesterol has been fluctuating between 240 and 260 now for a few
years. Last month it was mid-range, about 250 with any HDL of 45 which
is slightly low for me. It seems to be going down with age. :-(

Last night, total cholesterol was 205 with no change in the HDL. I don't
remember the exact number for Triglycerides but it was well in normal
range. Those were fasting results.

I only took 2 pills! Is it supposed to work that quickly, or does having
no appetite due to lack of sleep bring it down also???

I'll be sure to post results over time with this. I generally run labs
monthly as I have to turn in thyroid levels to my Dr. every 60 days
anyway as we are still titering the thyroid dosage for Armour or
Thyrolar. We use Thyrolar when we can get it, and Armour when we can't.
Both are made by Forest and the difficulty in getting Thyrolar is
beginning to [censored] a LOT of people off!

Synthroid is [censored]. I don't care if millions of people take it. It's
[censored]!!!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Juhana Harju" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<snipped>

Quoted message said:

Policosanol inhibits the formation of blood clots and may work
synergistically with aspirin in this respect. A high percentage of strokes
are of the clotting kind. When aspirin and policosanol were compared,
aspirin was better at reducing one type of platelet aggregation (the
clumping together of blood platelets), but policosanol was better at
inhibiting another type. Together, aspirin and policosanol worked better
than either one alone.

<snipped>

How does Policosanol inhibit clot formation?

Aspirin is a platelet function inhibitor.
"blood thinners" interfere with clotting by inhibiting the function of
coagulation proteins.

Not the same mechanism...

Any ideas? I'd like to be able to test for problems. If it interferes
with the coagulation cascade, I can run a PT/PTT. If it messes with
platelet function, I'd have to get one of my co-workers to do a bleeding
time as we don't have an aggregometer.

Frankly, I'd rather not. ;-) BT's can leave scars.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Robert said:

Lol. You can't read up on the safety record of a new drug.

Duh!
I was not talking about the safety, I was talking about being able to
read up on the ingredients and known side effects, as well as the
mechanisms on how it works....

Quoted message said:

All new drugs are safe until people start dying from it and then they are
unsafe.

All new drugs must be safe before they are released to the public.

Yeah. Right.
Do you REALLY believe that?
What about Vioxx?

What about drugs with a possible side effect of making your skin fall
off?

Quoted message said:

Nutritional supplements are also notorious as to purity standards. That
compound is notorious for variable concentrations.

I can't argue with that. ;-)
That's one of the reasons I'm picky about brands.

Plain dried herbs are the worst for that as active compounds can vary
widely by how the plant was grown, age of the plant and soil conditions.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, the effects tend to be real healing as oppose to "treatment" that
just treats symptoms rather than actually helping the body to help
itself.

See what I mean?

If you want to buy into that then for it. Most of that is all sales hype for
the so called natural remedies that cost an arm and a leg.

No. I'm VERY picky about trying new supplements!
They are too expensive to go off the deep end with them!

I cross reference and usually won't promote a nutritional supplement
unless I've had personal postive experiences with it or seen it work in
another individual.

L-Cystine and L-Lysine for Psoriasis comes to mind...
No amount of regular medications helped my poor neighbor who had it all
over her body, including her face. It took 6 months for it to have
really noticible effects, but it worked... She was ashamed to go out in
public for years. Now her face is clear. ;-)

Quoted message said:

It costs more because its natural remember and if it costs more then it must
be good. That's stuff is full of "go hug a tree" [censored].

Hmmmmm... You have NO idea.

Quoted message said:

If it works and it can be proved to be good and it has less side effects
then good but the jury is still out.
Lets experiment on your mother and see.

My mother is dead.
I am my own guinea pig, so is my house mate.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I sure to value all opionions tho' and appreciate the input! I'll watch
for that, and maybe add a PT/PTT to my monthly bloodwork. PT/PTT measure
blood coagulation times. I'll also make sure I do a platelet count.

Cheers!

Platelet aggregation is not monitored with a PT PTT. Aspirin does not effect
them.

I KNOW that! See my last post.
I have a BSMT.....

I need to know if Vanachol affects platelets or clotting proteins.
There is more to blood clots than platelets. ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Juhana Harju said:

Robert wrote:
:: "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...

::: Nutritonal therapy takes time to take effect. Vitamin and amino acid
::: therapies are a perfect example, as is the use of Glucosamine
::: Sulfate. Even HGH takes time to work in elderly patients. ;-)
:: Nutritional supplements are also notorious as to purity standards.
:: That compound is notorious for variable concentrations.
:::
::: But, the effects tend to be real healing as oppose to "treatment"
::: that just treats symptoms rather than actually helping the body to
::: help itself.
:::
::: See what I mean?
:: If you want to buy into that then for it. Most of that is all sales
:: hype for the so called natural remedies that cost an arm and a leg.
:: It costs more because its natural remember and if it costs more then
:: it must be good. That's stuff is full of "go hug a tree" [censored].
:: If it works and it can be proved to be good and it has less side
:: effects then good but the jury is still out.
:: Lets experiment on your mother and see.

You forgot the iatrogenic deaths. Iatrogenic deaths - deaths caused by
medication errors, medical errors and non-error adverse reactions to
prescribed drugs - is the third largest cause of death in the U.S. That is
confirmed also by published scientific articles. It is no wonder that people
are seeking treatment methods that are safer.

;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Juhana Harju" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<snipped>

Quoted message said:

Policosanol inhibits the formation of blood clots and may work
synergistically with aspirin in this respect. A high percentage of

strokes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are of the clotting kind. When aspirin and policosanol were compared,
aspirin was better at reducing one type of platelet aggregation (the
clumping together of blood platelets), but policosanol was better at
inhibiting another type. Together, aspirin and policosanol worked better
than either one alone.

<snipped>

How does Policosanol inhibit clot formation?

Aspirin is a platelet function inhibitor.
"blood thinners" interfere with clotting by inhibiting the function of
coagulation proteins.

Not the same mechanism...

Any ideas? I'd like to be able to test for problems. If it interferes
with the coagulation cascade, I can run a PT/PTT. If it messes with
platelet function, I'd have to get one of my co-workers to do a bleeding
time as we don't have an aggregometer.

Frankly, I'd rather not. ;-) BT's can leave scars.
--
Om.

Bleeding times are out of fashion and inaccurate when it comes to aspirin
inhibited aggregation. The test to do nowadays is PFA closure time which is
an in-vitro bleeding time.

Quoted message said:

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack

Nicholson

"Juhana Harju" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robert wrote:
:: "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...

::: Nutritonal therapy takes time to take effect. Vitamin and amino acid
::: therapies are a perfect example, as is the use of Glucosamine
::: Sulfate. Even HGH takes time to work in elderly patients. ;-)
:: Nutritional supplements are also notorious as to purity standards.
:: That compound is notorious for variable concentrations.
:::
::: But, the effects tend to be real healing as oppose to "treatment"
::: that just treats symptoms rather than actually helping the body to
::: help itself.
:::
::: See what I mean?
:: If you want to buy into that then for it. Most of that is all sales
:: hype for the so called natural remedies that cost an arm and a leg.
:: It costs more because its natural remember and if it costs more then
:: it must be good. That's stuff is full of "go hug a tree" [censored].
:: If it works and it can be proved to be good and it has less side
:: effects then good but the jury is still out.
:: Lets experiment on your mother and see.

You forgot the iatrogenic deaths. Iatrogenic deaths - deaths caused by
medication errors, medical errors and non-error adverse reactions to
prescribed drugs - is the third largest cause of death in the U.S. That is
confirmed also by published scientific articles. It is no wonder that

people

Quoted message said:

are seeking treatment methods that are safer.

--
Juhana

The medication you are seeking is a "medication" that is prescribed only
with a doctors prescription.
If the person bleeds to death as a result of drug interaction with aspirin
then it is iatrogenic. You also have allergic reactions to it which is
iatrogenic. Just because it is a so called natural substance does not take
it out of that arena.
You also only have a few people taking it right now and if more people do so
then you will see a wide spectrum of iatrogenic interations with people
renal failure and other disorders. Right now you are not allowed to give it
to pregnant mothers.

Quoted message said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Juhana Harju" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: There is also Policosanol made from beeswax. The sugar cane wax
::: derived product is said to work better, so I recommed the latter.
::: It would be nice to hear your experiences after taking the second
::: blood test.

:: Do you by any chance know how quickly this is supposed to work?
:: My doctor told me 60 days.
:: [...]

Here are couple of sites that you might find interesting.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/june2001_cover_policosanol.html

http://www.life-enhancement.com/LE/article_template.asp?ID=834

:: --
:: Om.

Om shanti.

--
Juhana

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Robert said:

Lol. You can't read up on the safety record of a new drug.

Duh!
I was not talking about the safety, I was talking about being able to
read up on the ingredients and known side effects, as well as the
mechanisms on how it works....

Who are you trying to kid? How does it reduce cholesterol and how does it
inhibit platelet aggregation and what are all the known drug interactions?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All new drugs are safe until people start dying from it and then they

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unsafe.

All new drugs must be safe before they are released to the public.

Yeah. Right.
Do you REALLY believe that?
What about Vioxx?

That's my point. Phen Fen was on the market for many years and Vioxx was on
the market for years until millions of people got on them and the real
safety record came out. Most people read the label and looked at the
ingredients like you.
All drugs must be safe before release and they were up until that point.

Quoted message said:

What about drugs with a possible side effect of making your skin fall
off?

Before or after the drug was released?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nutritional supplements are also notorious as to purity standards. That
compound is notorious for variable concentrations.

I can't argue with that. ;-)
That's one of the reasons I'm picky about brands.

Plain dried herbs are the worst for that as active compounds can vary
widely by how the plant was grown, age of the plant and soil conditions.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, the effects tend to be real healing as oppose to "treatment" that
just treats symptoms rather than actually helping the body to help
itself.

See what I mean?

If you want to buy into that then for it. Most of that is all sales hype

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the so called natural remedies that cost an arm and a leg.

No. I'm VERY picky about trying new supplements!
They are too expensive to go off the deep end with them!

I cross reference and usually won't promote a nutritional supplement
unless I've had personal postive experiences with it or seen it work in
another individual.

People lost weight with Phen Fen and it worked. It only blew out a few heart
valves and lung problems otherwise it worked great.

Quoted message said:

L-Cystine and L-Lysine for Psoriasis comes to mind...
No amount of regular medications helped my poor neighbor who had it all
over her body, including her face. It took 6 months for it to have
really noticible effects, but it worked... She was ashamed to go out in
public for years. Now her face is clear. ;-)

You take a chance with every med and that includes the meds of nutritional
supplements which are meds. Just because you don't need a presciption does
not mean it is not concentrated and "un-natural". If it is concentrated
enough to work then it is concentrated enough to have consequences. The
problem is that most people have not studied those consequences.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It costs more because its natural remember and if it costs more then it

must

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be good. That's stuff is full of "go hug a tree" [censored].

Hmmmmm... You have NO idea.

Quoted message said:

If it works and it can be proved to be good and it has less side effects
then good but the jury is still out.
Lets experiment on your mother and see.

My mother is dead.
I am my own guinea pig, so is my house mate.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I sure to value all opionions tho' and appreciate the input! I'll

watch

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for that, and maybe add a PT/PTT to my monthly bloodwork. PT/PTT

measure

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

blood coagulation times. I'll also make sure I do a platelet count.

Cheers!

Platelet aggregation is not monitored with a PT PTT. Aspirin does not

effect

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them.

I KNOW that! See my last post.
I have a BSMT.....

I need to know if Vanachol affects platelets or clotting proteins.
There is more to blood clots than platelets. ;-)

Get a PFA and get rid of your bleeding times.

Quoted message said:

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack

Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Robert said:

Bleeding times are out of fashion and inaccurate when it comes to aspirin
inhibited aggregation. The test to do nowadays is PFA closure time which is
an in-vitro bleeding time.

I am well aware of that...
but our lab does not do that.

We still do bleeding times.

Unfortunately. :-(
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson