General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

House OKs bill to ban school junk food sales

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
19 May 2005
Last activity
12 June 2005
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Roman Bystrianyk
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  1. Gregory B. Hladky, " House OKs bill to ban school junk food sales", New
    Haven Register, May 19, 2005,
    Link:
    http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14552144&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=517515&rfi=6

    State House lawmakers, worried about the epidemic of childhood obesity
    and diabetes, voted Wednesday to ban sales of high-sugar soda and junk
    food in public schools in Connecticut.

    In a last-minute compromise, the House approved an amendment that would
    permit diet soda and sports drinks such as Gatorade to be sold in
    school vending machines, along with milk, water, fruit juice and other
    approved drinks and snack foods.

    The bill would also require that all students in kindergarten through
    fifth grade get at least 20 minutes of recess a day.

    Debate over the bill turned into a partisan marathon lasting more than
    eight hours, with Republicans angrily offering amendment after
    amendment even though they were doomed to defeat.

    The House eventually voted 88-55 to send the amended bill back to the
    Senate. The Senate passed a different version of the measure 24-11.

    Critics charged that the bill would interfere with local control of
    schools and parents' authority, potentially rob after-school and
    athletic programs of badly needed money, and wouldn't have any real
    impact on obesity.

    But supporters of banning soda and junk food vending machines during
    school hours insisted that the health of children created an overriding
    need for the bill.

    "We know that some Connecticut children are being shortchanged on
    exercise and nutrition," said state Rep. Mary M. Mushinsky,
    D-Wallingford. "Our loyalty should be to these children first."

    State Rep. Vicki Orsini Nardello, D-Prospect, said the sale of
    high-sugar sodas and junk food snacks in Connecticut schools was often
    permitted only because it brought in revenue for school programs.
    "It's not good for kids, but it was a good thing for schools hard-up
    for cash," Nardello said.

    The legislation triggered a massive lobbying war, with soda giants
    Coca-Cola and PepsiCo hiring some of Connecticut's most influential
    lobbyists to work for the bill's defeat.

    But many other groups, from high school coaches associations to some
    school administrators and boards of education, also opposed the
    legislation because of fears of lost revenue.

    Voting on the bill and a key amendment broke generally along party
    lines, with most Democrats in favor and most Republicans against.

    State Rep. Themis Klarides, R-Derby, criticized the backroom
    negotiations that led to the compromise allowing diet soda and
    electrolyte-replacement drinks in school vending machines.

    "We need to take them all out," insisted Klarides. "If I hear one more
    time that it's 'for the kids,' I'll scream. ... They're all
    just as bad."

    Other opponents insisted that mandating that all schools provide
    kindergarten through fifth grade at least 20 minutes of recess or that
    amount of time to exercise could cut into needed time for academics.

    Gregory B. Hladky can be contacted at [email hidden] or (860)
    524-0719.

  2. Roman Bystrianyk said:

    Gregory B. Hladky, " House OKs bill to ban school junk food sales",


    New

    Quoted message said:

    Haven Register, May 19, 2005,
    Link:


    http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14552144&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=517515&rfi=6

    Quoted message said:


    State House lawmakers, worried about the epidemic of childhood


    obesity

    Quoted message said:

    and diabetes, voted Wednesday to ban sales of high-sugar soda and


    junk

    Quoted message said:

    food in public schools in Connecticut.

    In a last-minute compromise, the House approved an amendment that


    would

    Quoted message said:

    permit diet soda and sports drinks such as Gatorade to be sold in
    school vending machines, along with milk, water, fruit juice and


    other

    Quoted message said:

    approved drinks and snack foods.

    The bill would also require that all students in kindergarten through
    fifth grade get at least 20 minutes of recess a day.

    Debate over the bill turned into a partisan marathon lasting more


    than

    Quoted message said:

    eight hours, with Republicans angrily offering amendment after
    amendment even though they were doomed to defeat.

    The House eventually voted 88-55 to send the amended bill back to the
    Senate. The Senate passed a different version of the measure 24-11.

    Critics charged that the bill would interfere with local control of
    schools and parents' authority, potentially rob after-school and
    athletic programs of badly needed money, and wouldn't have any real
    impact on obesity.

    But supporters of banning soda and junk food vending machines during
    school hours insisted that the health of children created an


    overriding

    Quoted message said:

    need for the bill.

    "We know that some Connecticut children are being shortchanged on
    exercise and nutrition," said state Rep. Mary M. Mushinsky,
    D-Wallingford. "Our loyalty should be to these children first."

    State Rep. Vicki Orsini Nardello, D-Prospect, said the sale of
    high-sugar sodas and junk food snacks in Connecticut schools was


    often

    Quoted message said:

    permitted only because it brought in revenue for school programs.
    "It's not good for kids, but it was a good thing for schools hard-up
    for cash," Nardello said.

    The legislation triggered a massive lobbying war, with soda giants
    Coca-Cola and PepsiCo hiring some of Connecticut's most influential
    lobbyists to work for the bill's defeat.

    But many other groups, from high school coaches associations to some
    school administrators and boards of education, also opposed the
    legislation because of fears of lost revenue.

    Voting on the bill and a key amendment broke generally along party
    lines, with most Democrats in favor and most Republicans against.

    State Rep. Themis Klarides, R-Derby, criticized the backroom
    negotiations that led to the compromise allowing diet soda and
    electrolyte-replacement drinks in school vending machines.

    "We need to take them all out," insisted Klarides. "If I hear one


    more

    Quoted message said:

    time that it's 'for the kids,' I'll scream. ... They're all
    just as bad."

    Other opponents insisted that mandating that all schools provide
    kindergarten through fifth grade at least 20 minutes of recess or


    that

    Quoted message said:

    amount of time to exercise could cut into needed time for academics.

    Gregory B. Hladky can be contacted at [email hidden] or (860)
    524-0719.

    Of course, no one has had the gall to suggest that they actually
    provide adequate funding for the schools so that they are less
    dependent on funds from the sale of the sugar-water.

    But this is a step in the right direction.

    Now, these people need to understand that the gatorade-type drinks and
    many supposed "fruit" juices are sugar-bombs in disguise. Some are
    worse than soda.

    TC

  3. "TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, no one has had the gall to suggest that they actually
    provide adequate funding for the schools so that they are less
    dependent on funds from the sale of the sugar-water.

    What? We are on the same page, amazing. Bingo. Dubya and the rest of the
    big business cronies are not doing jack [censored] with education, health
    care just to name a few trivial issues. Getting Activist judges
    appointed and Social Security seem to be the only issues they want
    tackle. The rest of the cabinet members seem to be sleeping. Oh wait we
    have the unfunded "no child left behind' program. Yup this real winner.
    In Texas they showed great improvement by leaving students behind so
    they could not take the test and counting students that quit using some
    bizarre new math. Then we made that slick dude Secretary of Education.
    When third world countries have better schools then us we may wake up.

    Quoted message said:

    But this is a step in the right direction.

    Now, these people need to understand that the gatorade-type drinks and
    many supposed "fruit" juices are sugar-bombs in disguise. Some are
    worse than soda.

    They equally suck but this is the compromise they need to make with big
    business and unfortunately still fund schools.

    -DF

  4. "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, no one has had the gall to suggest that they actually
    provide adequate funding for the schools so that they are less
    dependent on funds from the sale of the sugar-water.

    What? We are on the same page, amazing. Bingo. Dubya and the rest of the
    big business cronies are not doing jack [censored] with education, health
    care just to name a few trivial issues. Getting Activist judges
    appointed and Social Security seem to be the only issues they want
    tackle. The rest of the cabinet members seem to be sleeping. Oh wait we
    have the unfunded "no child left behind' program.

    It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No Millionaire Left
    Behind Program.

    Yup this real winner.

    Quoted message said:

    In Texas they showed great improvement by leaving students behind so
    they could not take the test and counting students that quit using some
    bizarre new math. Then we made that slick dude Secretary of Education.
    When third world countries have better schools then us we may wake up.

    Quoted message said:

    But this is a step in the right direction.

    Now, these people need to understand that the gatorade-type drinks and
    many supposed "fruit" juices are sugar-bombs in disguise. Some are
    worse than soda.

    They equally suck but this is the compromise they need to make with big
    business and unfortunately still fund schools.

    -DF

  5. Mark Probert said:

    "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, no one has had the gall to suggest that they actually
    provide adequate funding for the schools so that they are less
    dependent on funds from the sale of the sugar-water.

    What? We are on the same page, amazing. Bingo. Dubya and the rest


    of the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    big business cronies are not doing jack [censored] with education,


    health

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    care just to name a few trivial issues. Getting Activist judges
    appointed and Social Security seem to be the only issues they want
    tackle. The rest of the cabinet members seem to be sleeping. Oh


    wait we

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have the unfunded "no child left behind' program.

    It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No


    Millionaire Left

    Quoted message said:

    Behind Program.

    Yup this real winner.

    Quoted message said:

    In Texas they showed great improvement by leaving students behind


    so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they could not take the test and counting students that quit using


    some

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    bizarre new math. Then we made that slick dude Secretary of


    Education.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When third world countries have better schools then us we may wake


    up.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But this is a step in the right direction.

    Now, these people need to understand that the gatorade-type


    drinks and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    many supposed "fruit" juices are sugar-bombs in disguise. Some


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    worse than soda.

    They equally suck but this is the compromise they need to make with


    big

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    business and unfortunately still fund schools.

    -DF

    Don't forget about the No Oil-Tycoon Left Behind program.

    TC

  6. TC said:
    Mark Probert said:

    "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > Of course, no one has had the gall to suggest that they


    actually

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > provide adequate funding for the schools so that they are less
    > dependent on funds from the sale of the sugar-water.

    What? We are on the same page, amazing. Bingo. Dubya and the rest


    of the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    big business cronies are not doing jack [censored] with education,


    health

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    care just to name a few trivial issues. Getting Activist judges
    appointed and Social Security seem to be the only issues they


    want

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    tackle. The rest of the cabinet members seem to be sleeping. Oh


    wait we

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have the unfunded "no child left behind' program.

    It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No


    Millionaire Left

    Quoted message said:

    Behind Program.

    Yup this real winner.

    Quoted message said:

    In Texas they showed great improvement by leaving students behind


    so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they could not take the test and counting students that quit


    using

    Quoted message said:

    some

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    bizarre new math. Then we made that slick dude Secretary of


    Education.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When third world countries have better schools then us we may


    wake

    Quoted message said:

    up.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > But this is a step in the right direction.
    >
    > Now, these people need to understand that the gatorade-type


    drinks and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > many supposed "fruit" juices are sugar-bombs in disguise. Some


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > worse than soda.

    They equally suck but this is the compromise they need to make


    with

    Quoted message said:

    big

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    business and unfortunately still fund schools.

    -DF

    Don't forget about the No Oil-Tycoon Left Behind program.

    TC

    Or the no-drug-left-behind program of FDA.

  7. "PeterB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    TC said:
    Mark Probert said:

    "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > "TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > news:[email hidden]...
    > > Of course, no one has had the gall to suggest that they


    actually

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > provide adequate funding for the schools so that they are less
    > > dependent on funds from the sale of the sugar-water.
    >
    > What? We are on the same page, amazing. Bingo. Dubya and the rest


    of the

    Quoted message said:

    > big business cronies are not doing jack [censored] with education,


    health

    Quoted message said:

    > care just to name a few trivial issues. Getting Activist judges
    > appointed and Social Security seem to be the only issues they


    want

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > tackle. The rest of the cabinet members seem to be sleeping. Oh


    wait we

    Quoted message said:

    > have the unfunded "no child left behind' program.

    It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No


    Millionaire Left

    Quoted message said:

    Behind Program.

    Yup this real winner.
    > In Texas they showed great improvement by leaving students behind


    so

    Quoted message said:

    > they could not take the test and counting students that quit


    using

    Quoted message said:

    some

    Quoted message said:

    > bizarre new math. Then we made that slick dude Secretary of


    Education.

    Quoted message said:

    > When third world countries have better schools then us we may


    wake

    Quoted message said:

    up.

    Quoted message said:

    >
    >
    > > But this is a step in the right direction.
    > >
    > > Now, these people need to understand that the gatorade-type


    drinks and

    Quoted message said:

    > > many supposed "fruit" juices are sugar-bombs in disguise. Some


    are

    Quoted message said:

    > > worse than soda.
    >
    > They equally suck but this is the compromise they need to make


    with

    Quoted message said:

    big

    Quoted message said:

    > business and unfortunately still fund schools.
    >
    > -DF
    >
    >

    Don't forget about the No Oil-Tycoon Left Behind program.

    TC

    Or the no-drug-left-behind program of FDA.

    That is one of the imaginary programs.

  8. Mark Probert said:

    "PeterB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    TC said:

    Mark Probert wrote:
    > "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > news:[email hidden]...
    > >
    > > "TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email hidden]...
    > > > Of course, no one has had the gall to suggest that they


    actually

    Quoted message said:

    > > > provide adequate funding for the schools so that they are


    less

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > > dependent on funds from the sale of the sugar-water.
    > >
    > > What? We are on the same page, amazing. Bingo. Dubya and the


    rest

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of the
    > > big business cronies are not doing jack [censored] with education,
    health
    > > care just to name a few trivial issues. Getting Activist


    judges

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > appointed and Social Security seem to be the only issues they


    want

    Quoted message said:

    > > tackle. The rest of the cabinet members seem to be sleeping.


    Oh

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    wait we
    > > have the unfunded "no child left behind' program.
    >
    > It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No
    Millionaire Left
    > Behind Program.
    >
    > Yup this real winner.
    > > In Texas they showed great improvement by leaving students


    behind

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    so
    > > they could not take the test and counting students that quit


    using

    Quoted message said:

    some
    > > bizarre new math. Then we made that slick dude Secretary of
    Education.
    > > When third world countries have better schools then us we may


    wake

    Quoted message said:

    up.
    > >
    > >
    > > > But this is a step in the right direction.
    > > >
    > > > Now, these people need to understand that the gatorade-type
    drinks and
    > > > many supposed "fruit" juices are sugar-bombs in disguise.


    Some

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are
    > > > worse than soda.
    > >
    > > They equally suck but this is the compromise they need to


    make

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with

    Quoted message said:

    big
    > > business and unfortunately still fund schools.
    > >
    > > -DF
    > >
    > >

    Don't forget about the No Oil-Tycoon Left Behind program.

    TC

    Or the no-drug-left-behind program of FDA.

    That is one of the imaginary programs.

    Vioxx is imaginary? Wow, this really is the Matrix.

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mark Probert' Mark said:

    It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No Millionaire Left
    Behind Program.

    Damn.
    And I thought _I_ was cynical!

    <lol>

    This would make a good sig. line!
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  10. "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mark Probert' Mark said:

    It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No
    Millionaire Left
    Behind Program.

    Isn't it amazing that the oil companies are making record profits? The
    price of a potential barrel of oil goes up in OPEC and gas prices at the
    local pump go up the next day. It's a wonder that the oil companies can
    take that barrel and get it refined and to the gas station in a single
    day? They wouldn't be so greedy as to charge us excessive amounts for
    the gas that was refined last month and still in the tanks? Of course
    not.

    And how many from Enron have be sent to jail?

    Quoted message said:

    Damn.
    And I thought _I_ was cynical!

    <lol>

    I never thought we would have a president and administration with less
    scruples than Nixon. Amazing how we strive for new "standards."
    Cynical - we are getting screwed and not even a kiss. I'd laugh if it
    wasn't so sad.

    -DF

  11. "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mark Probert' Mark said:

    It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No Millionaire
    Left
    Behind Program.

    Isn't it amazing that the oil companies are making record profits? The
    price of a potential barrel of oil goes up in OPEC and gas prices at the
    local pump go up the next day. It's a wonder that the oil companies can
    take that barrel and get it refined and to the gas station in a single
    day? They wouldn't be so greedy as to charge us excessive amounts for the
    gas that was refined last month and still in the tanks? Of course not.

    Sorry, but oil companies are not utilities. They are in business to make
    money. If you don't like it, take public transportation or ride a bike.

    Jeff

    Quoted message said:

    And how many from Enron have be sent to jail?

    Quoted message said:

    Damn.
    And I thought _I_ was cynical!

    <lol>

    I never thought we would have a president and administration with less
    scruples than Nixon. Amazing how we strive for new "standards." Cynical -
    we are getting screwed and not even a kiss. I'd laugh if it wasn't so
    sad.

    -DF

  12. "Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sorry, but oil companies are not utilities. They are in business to
    make money. If you don't like it, take public transportation or ride a
    bike.

    Spoken like a true Republican. No one wants to deny any business from
    making a fair profit. Notice the word 'FAIR." These SOB's remind me of
    the people after the hurricane when they were selling generators for 10x
    the normal price. I guess you think that is a fair profit. How about the
    oil for food, another fair profit? We are help captive with very little
    options by flat out greed. Why don't we raise the hospital rates of
    those during an emergency. I'll bet we could squeeze some extra bucks
    before the doctors resuscitate.

    As for mass transportation I would love to it but I don't have any. To
    ride my bike 45 miles to work is outlandish. With the oil companies and
    those cronies in power mass transit will never happen. More mass
    transit, plain and simple means less profit, so who will build the
    tracks and buses. Show me the incentives the Government provided so we
    would have alternate fuel for our cars. Nope we build more SUV's call
    them trucks and suck the pumps dry to feed these same greedy [censored].

    You are either grossly naive, slow on the uptake or work for an oil
    company but you can't see the forest for the trees. They have carefully
    stuck the umbrella up our butts and will now proceed to open it before
    they pull it out.

    -DF

  13. "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sorry, but oil companies are not utilities. They are in business to make
    money. If you don't like it, take public transportation or ride a bike.

    Spoken like a true Republican.

    I am a Democrat. But I also realize that realize that businesses are in
    business to make money. Their real masters are the stock brokers (and in the
    case of the automakers and old airlines, their retirees).

    Quoted message said:

    No one wants to deny any business from making a fair profit. Notice the
    word 'FAIR." These SOB's remind me of the people after the hurricane when
    they were selling generators for 10x the normal price.

    Oil is selling for around $50 per barrel. That is around $1/gallon of crude.
    Gas sells for around twice that. That price includes refining, taxes,
    transportation, profit for the gas station, labor, etc. That seems like a
    fair price to me.

    Quoted message said:

    I guess you think that is a fair profit. How about the oil for food,
    another fair profit?

    No that was corruption. Poor and simple.

    Quoted message said:

    We are help captive with very little options by flat out greed.

    How about taking the bus or walking? How about getting smaller cars or not
    buying thristy SUVs?

    How about insulating your home and putting in water-saving water shower
    heads?

    How about nuclear power? And not going to war in Iraq?

    Quoted message said:

    Why don't we raise the hospital rates of those during an emergency.

    Actually, they do. Ever go into a hospital and see what the list price is
    for an emergency room visit?

    Quoted message said:

    I'll bet we could squeeze some extra bucks before the doctors resuscitate.

    As for mass transportation I would love to it but I don't have any. To
    ride my bike 45 miles to work is outlandish. With the oil companies and
    those cronies in power mass transit will never happen.

    Who votes for those cronies?

    Quoted message said:

    More mass transit, plain and simple means less profit, so who will build
    the tracks and buses.

    Motor Coach Industry and other bus makers.

    Quoted message said:

    Show me the incentives the Government provided so we would have alternate
    fuel for our cars. Nope we build more SUV's call them trucks and suck the
    pumps dry to feed these same greedy [censored].

    We do. That is the key. We made this. And now we depend on other countries
    for oil. Guess what? We have lie in it.

    Quoted message said:

    You are either grossly naive, slow on the uptake or work for an oil
    company but you can't see the forest for the trees.

    I can see the forest for the trees. Who did the Americans elect for their
    vice president? The guy who wouldn't even tell us who his energy advisers
    are. And who is the dimwit who we elected for President? The guy with an
    Harvard MBA who couldn't even make money in the oil business in Texas.

    Oil companies invested billions of dollars in tankers, oil fields, and
    infrastructure to get and refine gas. They will reap the profits. That is
    the American way.

    Quoted message said:

    They have carefully stuck the umbrella up our butts and will now proceed
    to open it before they pull it out.

    They weren't the ones buying the SUVs, building housing and office buildings
    that should be more energy efficient, moving 40 miles from work, etc.

    It is not the oil companies that put the umbrella up our butts. We pushed
    the umbrella up ourselves.

    Jeff

    Quoted message said:

    -DF

  14. We could vote for leaders who will subsidize solar energy, put a hefty
    tax on gas-guzzling vehicles, etc., but we'd rather argue about which
    kinds of couples can get married, and few really want to give anything
    up. Those who love to stress "family values" are creating a world that
    will be in deep trouble for their ancestors, but I guess we'll have the
    Apocalypse before then, so it doesn't really matter, right?

    Now back to the scientific reality:

    what I find interesting is the definition of "junk food," that is, like
    "saturated fat," it's not specified by our "nutritional experts."
    Lard, at 39% saturated, is called a "saturated fat." This is not
    scientific, nor is it even logical, but my point here is that so many
    "experts" are talking "fruit and vegetables" and yet they contain most
    of the same sugars that "junk food" does. What fruit does not contain
    are the large amounts of fatty acids, most of which are usually
    polyunsaturated or the dangerous MUFA, erucic acid. Let's do some real
    science - let's take each food apart, and look at the molecules
    involved. Then we could see which ones are causing the "obesity
    epidemic," the "diabetes epidemic," or whatever one wants to call the
    various problems at hand.

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Doug Freese said:

    "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mark Probert' Mark said:

    It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No
    Millionaire Left
    Behind Program.

    Isn't it amazing that the oil companies are making record profits? The
    price of a potential barrel of oil goes up in OPEC and gas prices at the
    local pump go up the next day. It's a wonder that the oil companies can
    take that barrel and get it refined and to the gas station in a single
    day? They wouldn't be so greedy as to charge us excessive amounts for
    the gas that was refined last month and still in the tanks? Of course
    not.

    And it's not proportional.
    If oil prices go up 2%, gas prices go up 4 to 5%.

    Quoted message said:


    And how many from Enron have be sent to jail?

    Quoted message said:

    Damn.
    And I thought _I_ was cynical!

    <lol>

    I never thought we would have a president and administration with less
    scruples than Nixon. Amazing how we strive for new "standards."
    Cynical - we are getting screwed and not even a kiss. I'd laugh if it
    wasn't so sad.

    -DF

    You're preaching to the choir....

    Quoted message said:



    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Jeff said:

    "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    "Mark Probert" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote:

    > It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No Millionaire
    > Left
    > Behind Program.

    Isn't it amazing that the oil companies are making record profits? The
    price of a potential barrel of oil goes up in OPEC and gas prices at the
    local pump go up the next day. It's a wonder that the oil companies can
    take that barrel and get it refined and to the gas station in a single
    day? They wouldn't be so greedy as to charge us excessive amounts for the
    gas that was refined last month and still in the tanks? Of course not.

    Sorry, but oil companies are not utilities. They are in business to make
    money. If you don't like it, take public transportation or ride a bike.

    Jeff

    The problem is, it does not just increase our auto fuel costs. It
    affects _everything_.

    Transporting foods and goods to market burns fuel also, so ALL the
    prices go up! I can ride a bike or walk to the store, but what I have to
    pay for groceries will still go up.

    This [censored] is hurting a lot of people in a lot of ways.

    And it's all based on GREED.
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  17. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Mark Probert said:

    "PeterB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    TC wrote:
    > Mark Probert wrote:
    > > "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email hidden]...
    > > >
    > > > "TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email hidden]...
    > > > > Of course, no one has had the gall to suggest that they
    actually
    > > > > provide adequate funding for the schools so that they are


    less

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > > > dependent on funds from the sale of the sugar-water.
    > > >
    > > > What? We are on the same page, amazing. Bingo. Dubya and the


    rest

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > of the
    > > > big business cronies are not doing jack [censored] with education,
    > health
    > > > care just to name a few trivial issues. Getting Activist


    judges

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > > appointed and Social Security seem to be the only issues they
    want
    > > > tackle. The rest of the cabinet members seem to be sleeping.


    Oh

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > wait we
    > > > have the unfunded "no child left behind' program.
    > >
    > > It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No
    > Millionaire Left
    > > Behind Program.
    > >
    > > Yup this real winner.
    > > > In Texas they showed great improvement by leaving students


    behind

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > so
    > > > they could not take the test and counting students that quit
    using
    > some
    > > > bizarre new math. Then we made that slick dude Secretary of
    > Education.
    > > > When third world countries have better schools then us we may
    wake
    > up.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > But this is a step in the right direction.
    > > > >
    > > > > Now, these people need to understand that the gatorade-type
    > drinks and
    > > > > many supposed "fruit" juices are sugar-bombs in disguise.


    Some

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > are
    > > > > worse than soda.
    > > >
    > > > They equally suck but this is the compromise they need to


    make

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with
    > big
    > > > business and unfortunately still fund schools.
    > > >
    > > > -DF
    > > >
    > > >
    >
    > Don't forget about the No Oil-Tycoon Left Behind program.
    >
    > TC

    Or the no-drug-left-behind program of FDA.

    That is one of the imaginary programs.

    Vioxx is imaginary? Wow, this really is the Matrix.

    No, it is RealLife, where the FDA does not rubber stamp 100% of every
    pharmaceutical application.

  18. "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mark Probert' Mark said:

    It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No Millionaire


    Left

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Behind Program.

    Damn.
    And I thought _I_ was cynical!

    Nah....you have to truly understand GWB like I do to reach the same level of
    cynicism.

    Quoted message said:

    <lol>

    This would make a good sig. line!

    If you decide to use it, I will waive my customary fee for full attribution.

  19. "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I am a Democrat. But I also realize that realize that businesses are in
    business to make money. Their real masters are the stock brokers (and in
    the case of the automakers and old airlines, their retirees).

    Actually the list goes on but I was simply picking on oil because it is so
    obvious. Look at Enron and their retirement. At least the airlines get ten
    cents on a dollar.

    Quoted message said:

    Oil is selling for around $50 per barrel. That is around $1/gallon of
    crude. Gas sells for around twice that. That price includes refining,
    taxes, transportation, profit for the gas station, labor, etc. That seems
    like a fair price to me.

    I understand we can't do much about the price of a barrel. OPEC has us by
    the balls and the administration is mothered by Cheney and company. My
    point was they raise the price at the pump before the barrel is out of the
    ground. It used to be the price of gas at the pump was adjusted when the
    truck was delivered. It included the cost of the barrel, profit, etc. Now
    the price goes up on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and no delivery. The
    corollary, when the price of the oil drops, does the price go immediately
    down? I think we know the answer. The only real factor that causes the
    price to drop is when the sales go down. Ever notice when we have long
    holiday's where people tend to drive, the prices go up. This is another
    greedy ploy and accept the flogging.

    It is called the law of supply and demand. That is the way a free market
    works. If you don't like it, you don't have to drive.

    Quoted message said:

    What's truly sad is all the oil companies play the game and trying to
    under sell each other as we do in most retailing of food, clothes, etc.
    does NOT happen. We can't shop at cheaper gas station unless you consider
    a few pennies different.

    Again, that is part of the free market system.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    How about taking the bus or walking? How about getting smaller cars or
    not buying thristy SUVs?

    I agree and it will help. I live in rural America with no mass
    transportation. I drive an efficient car.

    Quoted message said:

    How about insulating your home and putting in water-saving water shower
    heads?

    Things like this will help in a small way but it's still like a Band-Aid
    after open heart surgery. How about allowing people to write off the
    efficiencies to our home? We need to find an alternate sources of energy
    and not nuclear. We have the technology but it needs to pushed with
    grants, tax breaks, etc., so it can be accomplished quickly without years
    of financial loss. As we both know the current administration is doing
    little to nothing to remove the dependency. I'm not a conspiracy nut but
    the collusion between big business and election donations works. This is
    another issue which neither party wants to solve.

    That's because the public is not going to do what is needed to solve it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    How about nuclear power?

    NO, NO and NO! I could be smug and say as long as we can store the spent
    rods in OPEC countries but this is one planet. I'm not willing to poison
    the earth for this solution.

    I agree that the disposal is a problem. We do need to do something about
    that.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    And not going to war in Iraq?

    We are on the same page with this! I think Dubya should be impeached for
    lying out his ass for this blunder. At that level you don't point at the
    other guy and say he told me so. And to keep the war going and our troups
    safe we need more oil. More demand, bigger price. I'm sure this is just a
    coincidence.

    Quoted message said:

    Who votes for those cronies?

    Good point and I think Carl Rove(Bush's campaign advisor) should get a
    medal and Carey and the Democatic party should get the booby prize. How
    the Democratic party's process could conclude with Carey as they savior is
    beyond me. Bush was bent over the barrel with his pants down and the Dems
    decided to play pick-up-sticks. Bush ran on a fake fear factor and most
    people were duped. We are now in a financial abyss and more hated then
    ever before. I'm just amazed that we can find the money to put the country
    in a financial hole with this war but it was not available for health
    care, education.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Show me the incentives the Government provided so we would have
    alternate fuel for our cars. Nope we build more Suva's call them trucks
    and suck the pumps dry to feed these same greedy [censored].

    We do. That is the key. We made this. And now we depend on other
    countries for oil. Guess what? We have lie in it.

    There was a plan to increase the efficiency of cars but we allowed SUV's
    to be exempted. Only now with gas prices rising so high that people are
    looking into the hybrids. Let's add $5,000 to the cost of a SUV to go to
    alternate energy solutions. Let those gas guzzlers fork the tab and paint
    a scarlet gas pump on the car.

    Quoted message said:

    I can see the forest for the trees. Who did the Americans elect for their
    vice president? The guy who wouldn't even tell us who his energy advisers
    are. And who is the dimwit who we elected for President? The guy with an
    Harvard MBA who couldn't even make money in the oil business in Texas.

    Ain't this the truth. By the way Cheney, really runs the show, Bush is a
    figurehead who is given a windmill to tilt at and keep busy. He is not
    bright enough to run a [censored] house with bevy of beautiful nymphomaniacs.

    I disagree. Bush is very bright. He is an excellent politician. Not a good
    manager or good with the economy, however.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It is not the oil companies that put the umbrella up our butts. We pushed
    the umbrella up ourselves.

    I agree, and the price of the lubricant is growing exponentially. The only
    place we seem to disagree is fact that we get screwed at the pump with
    premature, unfair price increases.

    No, that is just the market system. The same thing happens with milk at the
    grocery store. Actually, while it seems unfair, if it were not for this
    level of competition, I think the price of gas would be higher. Look at how
    competition has lowered the cost of internet access. It used to be like
    $100/month for DSL. Now it is $30/month for DSL/cable. And <$10 for dialup
    access.

    Jeff

    Quoted message said:

    -DF

  20. "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Jeff said:

    "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > In article <[email hidden]>,
    > "Mark Probert" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >> It is unfunded because they needed the money to fund the No
    >> Millionaire
    >> Left
    >> Behind Program.

    Isn't it amazing that the oil companies are making record profits?
    The
    price of a potential barrel of oil goes up in OPEC and gas prices at
    the
    local pump go up the next day. It's a wonder that the oil companies
    can
    take that barrel and get it refined and to the gas station in a single
    day? They wouldn't be so greedy as to charge us excessive amounts for
    the
    gas that was refined last month and still in the tanks? Of course not.

    Sorry, but oil companies are not utilities. They are in business to make
    money. If you don't like it, take public transportation or ride a bike.

    Jeff

    The problem is, it does not just increase our auto fuel costs. It
    affects _everything_.

    Transporting foods and goods to market burns fuel also, so ALL the
    prices go up! I can ride a bike or walk to the store, but what I have to
    pay for groceries will still go up.

    This [censored] is hurting a lot of people in a lot of ways.

    And it's all based on GREED.

    Yeap. That is the American way.

    Jeff

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack
    Nicholson

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