Basso's Meds Wrong?

Ask and answered many times before.

Can you spell 'commonsense'?

Gotta be off-the-endorsement cash flow. You have zero business sense on top of your poor vocabulary.

btw: I guess you broke your promise to go away. And I was right yet again.

I know doping and dopes.

House said:

And yet you refuse to believe a six-time winner.

Can you say contradiction?

Of course in your little fantasy land you have no idea what that means.

There's more truth to the fantasy than we would like to wish :o

Quoted post said:

You're spot on, I doubt them. I doubt the intentions and motivations behind their supposed "revelations". They're as likely to lie about everyone else as they were about themselves. When found out for what they were (according to your posts), I'm sure there was some desire to discredit everyone else also. You bet I doubt them, just like you doubt Lance when he tells you he's not doping. Same thing.

Nope, I refer you to my earlier paragraph. I don't believe your group of previous champions is any more likely to be truthful than Lance or other current riders. In fact, since most of your "group" have been caught doping after having denied it, I believe them less....i.e. they've already lied before.

I said nothing about advertisers, I pay very little attention to them. In fact, other than your posts here on this site, I pay no attention at all to the he said/she said [censored] where doping is concerned. You can read that to believe that the opinion I have now about doping in pro cycling very much stems from what I've learned in reading your posts...along with some general common sense and logic.

Although I admit I read an article in Bicycling mag last month, scary stuff that's being contemplated and done.

John

My list of World Champions and Grand Tour winners who have been exposed as dopers is very long.

The pathology of all the men and women who later 1) admitted to doping after 10 years into retirement and 2) always denied but were caught anyway is the same. It's the perfect crime!

When an athlete is under contract by a sponsor, DENIAL of doping is the only response.

Any other response will result in immediate termination. (rule of the jungle)

Later on, the admissions will flow easier UNLESS the retired pro in still involved in the industry.

Take the case of Greg Lemond. He still brands his bicycles and is hired as a corporate speaker from time to time.

He knows where the bodies are buried and I would love to hear more from him. He is very credible and knowledgable too.

But he cannot speak out much more than he already has. And he is spanked very harshly by all those hiding the doping truth--and preserving the current contract/endorsement flows. Unless Greg is willing to throw away his Lemond bike distribution and marketing plans, he must remain silent on this subject. So too with Olympic Training Camp scouts. They know what's in store for junior athletes who excell---but cannot discuss it openly with the parents.

So too with Eddie Merckx and Bernard Hinault. They cannot speak out due to their affiliations with the promoters and bike sale deals.

Sorry, but when class riders and winners such as Eddie Plankaert, Freddie Maertens, Fausto Coppi, Francesco Moser, David Millar, Oscar Camenzind, Alex Zulle, Pascal Herve, Laurent Brouchard, Bernard Thevenet, Rudy Altig, Didier Garcia, Johan Van Der Velde, Thierry Laurent admit to doping while other class riders are exposed:

Tyler Hamilton, Santi Perez, Richard Virenque, Pedro Delgado, Lance Armstrong, Matt Decuneo, David Rebellin, Gilberti Simoni, Stephen Casagrande, Marco Pantani.

How widespread doping could possibliy occur in a vaccum where your favorite rider DID NOT DOPE when their teammates did, is incomprehensible.

The inescapable conclusion is; Tous Dope!

Assume 100% doping and you'll never be wrong.

Mansmind said:

Nope, I refer you to my earlier paragraph. I don't believe your group of previous champions is any more likely to be truthful than Lance or other current riders. In fact, since most of your "group" have been caught doping after having denied it, I believe them less....i.e. they've already lied before.

I said nothing about advertisers, I pay very little attention to them. In fact, other than your posts here on this site, I pay no attention at all to the he said/she said [censored] where doping is concerned. You can read that to believe that the opinion I have now about doping in pro cycling very much stems from what I've learned in reading your posts...along with some general common sense and logic.

Although I admit I read an article in Bicycling mag last month, scary stuff that's being contemplated and done.

John

Dead Star said:

There's more truth to the fantasy than we would like to wish :o

There is absolutely NO truth to the fantasy Flyer pedals. The fantasy that any slight connection proves someone dopes, that every cyclist is doping, etc. truth is in what i and many others say: doping is a problem in cycling as in all sports but we won't convict someone without actual proof.

Flyer said:

Ask and answered many times before.

Do you mean all those times where you just repeat the same fact or two mixed in with a bunch or lies and half-truths over and over or the times you run away and hide when i challenge you?

Quoted post said:

Can you spell 'commonsense'?

It's already hard enough to take you cowardly act serious and then you say this???? LOL (common sense, two words not one:rolleyes🙂

Quoted post said:

Gotta be off-the-endorsement cash flow. You have zero business sense on top of your poor vocabulary.

Ummm, sure, ok, eating those mushrooms again?

Quoted post said:

btw: I guess you broke your promise to go away. And I was right yet again.

I can't help it, it's such a laugh to come around and make you look like a bigger fool then you already do and it takes little effort.

Quoted post said:

I know doping and dopes.

I have no doubt you know dopes, every time you look in the mirror.

Have fun with another B response cowardly lion.

No one is being convicted here.

It is just the way it is. Not 1% or 10% or 50% or a few bad apples. The whole bucket is doped. If one person dopes--everyone must dope or morale goes to hell. And we already know that hundreds dope---naturally their teammates must as well.

Tous Dope, the French write it on the roads of the Tour de France. They are accurate.

The riders are on drugs in order to prepare and survive a three week stage race of 4,000 kilometers with an average speed of 42+ kph.

The contenders for the various prizes, stage victories, yellow, green, pokka dot are juiced even more in order to compete.

The drugs work and are great for business.

Insulin, glucose, Nandrolone, THG, Testosterone, Clomid, hCG, hGH, corticosteroids, interlukins, EPO, HBOCs, amphetamines, Pot Belge, sleeping pills, asthma inhaler steroids, masking agents, blood transfusions, albumin, vasodilators, Immunoferon, etc....

Trauma and enemia drugs, mostly undetectable and very powerful.

It's what they call, rejuvenators. Like a car needs fuel, a TDF rider needs trauma medicine.

Tous Dope!

[quote="Flyer"]It is just the way it is. Not 1% or 10% or 50% or a few bad apples. The whole bucket is doped. If one person dopes--everyone must dope or morale goes to hell. And we already know that hundreds dope---naturally their teammates must as well.QUOTE]

When one person dopes everyone must dope or morale goes to hell???? Who in the hell gave you your philosophy on life? I don't think I've ever met someone so bent on being negative about everything. How can you LOGICALLY justify a statement like that? It's assinine.

Although I admire the work you must have put in to gather all this information (the factual parts), your opinions are just bent out of reality...WAY out of reality. You might as well say that since one wears white socks, they must ALL wear white socks.

Doping is a problem yes, perhaps even a BIG problem. Yes, I agree with you that it should be stopped, but I can PROMISE you that you're not going to stop it by being completely unrealistic about the whole thing. Why don't you do something positive like....

Go find a good young rider that doesn't dope, train the hell out of him till he kicks everyone's a$$, then use him as an example. (operating under your assumption of everyone doping).

Nevermind, I'm getting out of the discussion, there's no point in having a open discussion with someone that only sees black. I guess you're right and MOST EVERYONE else is crazy. Hmmm.. what does that usually mean? Regardless, think what you want, that's your right as I've said before. In my honest opinion however, I'd suggest you be careful about whom you accuse of what, some people don't take kindly to such things.

Have a good one.

John

Flyer said:

No one is being convicted here.

It is just the way it is. Not 1% or 10% or 50% or a few bad apples. The whole bucket is doped. If one person dopes--everyone must dope or morale goes to hell. And we already know that hundreds dope---naturally their teammates must as well.

Tous Dope, the French write it on the roads of the Tour de France. They are accurate.

The riders are on drugs in order to prepare and survive a three week stage race of 4,000 kilometers with an average speed of 42+ kph.

The contenders for the various prizes, stage victories, yellow, green, pokka dot are juiced even more in order to compete.

The drugs work and are great for business.

Insulin, glucose, Nandrolone, THG, Testosterone, Clomid, hCG, hGH, corticosteroids, interlukins, EPO, HBOCs, amphetamines, Pot Belge, sleeping pills, asthma inhaler steroids, masking agents, blood transfusions, albumin, vasodilators, Immunoferon, etc....

Trauma and enemia drugs, mostly undetectable and very powerful.

It's what they call, rejuvenators. Like a car needs fuel, a TDF rider needs trauma medicine.

Tous Dope!

So why do you follow cycling then? If it's so heavily populated by dopers, who you clearly despise, why do you spend so much energy on it? Perhaps another sport where doping isn't so prevalent would be more enjoyable for you. Horseshoes perhaps? Darts? Archerey wouldn't work because they do beta blockers. Auto racing?

Why do you care if cyclists dope? How does it affect you? Are you as concerned about police officers who do steroids? How about people who smoke pot?

Gee I have worked with others my entire life.

Teams work on shared values. That is what determines group success!!!

That is my experience. I have never met anyone who would tolerate a cheater on a team with the naive notion that, the team will somehow perserver.

Get real!

Did you see any outrage at Tyler's teammates?

Did David Millars teammates get upset?

Did Alex Zulle get blackballed from cycling after admitting under oath he used every illegal product currently available.

Hell no---he became Tyler's leader.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. The problem is 100% widespread and your silly notion that it can be contained with testing---or that 1% positivers somehow show progress is INSANE.

And very unhelpful.

First you must admit the problem in its ugly entireity, not piece meal. The whole institutional doping mess.

Next we can decide how to respond to the advertiser and sponsor that fund the drugs and to the research scientist who aid the athletes in finding new drugs.

That will be very, very tough. Impossible if fans are in denial.

Just because I see the problem clearly does not mean I am cynical. The problem is ugly, not the messenger. Don't shoot the messenger just becasue you hate the message.

And don't fret I mentor juniors and enjoy it emensely.
I have one doing a stage race in Europe and he is getting a first habd edcuation on doping as I type this. I hope his college days will take him over and away from the dark side. He has gone nearly as far as he can w/o dope. He will decide what to do, not you or I. But at least he won't be surprised.

The facts on doping prove me to be correct.

[quote="Mansmind"]

Flyer said:

It is just the way it is. Not 1% or 10% or 50% or a few bad apples. The whole bucket is doped. If one person dopes--everyone must dope or morale goes to hell. And we already know that hundreds dope---naturally their teammates must as well.QUOTE]

When one person dopes everyone must dope or morale goes to hell???? Who in the hell gave you your philosophy on life? I don't think I've ever met someone so bent on being negative about everything. How can you LOGICALLY justify a statement like that? It's assinine.

Although I admire the work you must have put in to gather all this information (the factual parts), your opinions are just bent out of reality...WAY out of reality. You might as well say that since one wears white socks, they must ALL wear white socks.

Doping is a problem yes, perhaps even a BIG problem. Yes, I agree with you that it should be stopped, but I can PROMISE you that you're not going to stop it by being completely unrealistic about the whole thing. Why don't you do something positive like....

Go find a good young rider that doesn't dope, train the hell out of him till he kicks everyone's a$$, then use him as an example. (operating under your assumption of everyone doping).

Nevermind, I'm getting out of the discussion, there's no point in having a open discussion with someone that only sees black. I guess you're right and MOST EVERYONE else is crazy. Hmmm.. what does that usually mean? Regardless, think what you want, that's your right as I've said before. In my honest opinion however, I'd suggest you be careful about whom you accuse of what, some people don't take kindly to such things.

Have a good one.

John

And btw: If a lying cheating fraud is offended by my disclosure of the ugly truth re: commercially funded sports---I am delighted to do so.

I do not like frauds, nor do I wish them any comfort.

Cheaters are no good. I have no use for them.

I hope Richard Pound gets lifetime bans for all busted cheats and their apologists too.

To clean up cycling, a hell of a lot of riders, teams, and sponsors have got to go away for good.

[quote="Mansmind"]

Flyer said:

It is just the way it is. Not 1% or 10% or 50% or a few bad apples. The whole bucket is doped. If one person dopes--everyone must dope or morale goes to hell. And we already know that hundreds dope---naturally their teammates must as well.QUOTE]

When one person dopes everyone must dope or morale goes to hell???? Who in the hell gave you your philosophy on life? I don't think I've ever met someone so bent on being negative about everything. How can you LOGICALLY justify a statement like that? It's assinine.

Although I admire the work you must have put in to gather all this information (the factual parts), your opinions are just bent out of reality...WAY out of reality. You might as well say that since one wears white socks, they must ALL wear white socks.

Doping is a problem yes, perhaps even a BIG problem. Yes, I agree with you that it should be stopped, but I can PROMISE you that you're not going to stop it by being completely unrealistic about the whole thing. Why don't you do something positive like....

Go find a good young rider that doesn't dope, train the hell out of him till he kicks everyone's a$$, then use him as an example. (operating under your assumption of everyone doping).

Nevermind, I'm getting out of the discussion, there's no point in having a open discussion with someone that only sees black. I guess you're right and MOST EVERYONE else is crazy. Hmmm.. what does that usually mean? Regardless, think what you want, that's your right as I've said before. In my honest opinion however, I'd suggest you be careful about whom you accuse of what, some people don't take kindly to such things.

Have a good one.

John

I got a lot of time in this sport Daddio.

Well it the blantant commercial fraud and harmful false message to children that I despise most.

Don't get me started on Police on drugs---I know one who is a Carbineri----and gets free EPO! He is bi-polar and a black-belt too.

Work ethic themes substituted for meaning (drugs and training protocols a al Michele Ferrari).

The rotten stinking phony denials that the dope was for: my mother-in-law, my dog, for road rash, it's not mine luggage, it's not my room, I made a mistake but I'm over it now, I've never tested positive when that is meaningless. Or let's move on, blah, blah, blah!

And the fans that buy this [censored] is amazing. Really is.

Advertising themes work as well as steroids.

What is especially interesting to me is when I point out obvious doping lies---how a few chumps attack with ad hominem rants and vicious namecalling. I guess they think if I can be called a 'coward' that somehow Lance's doctor will get his license back sooner---or Tyler will eventually explain why his blood is fishy or why Prentice Steffen would lie?

The truth brings out such emotion. I am on firm ground.

lumpy said:

So why do you follow cycling then? If it's so heavily populated by dopers, who you clearly despise, why do you spend so much energy on it? Perhaps another sport where doping isn't so prevalent would be more enjoyable for you. Horseshoes perhaps? Darts? Archerey wouldn't work because they do beta blockers. Auto racing?

Why do you care if cyclists dope? How does it affect you? Are you as concerned about police officers who do steroids? How about people who smoke pot?

Flyer said:

I got a lot of time in this sport Daddio.

Well it the blantant commercial fraud and harmful false message to children that I despise most.

Don't get me started on Police on drugs---I know one who is a Carbineri----and gets free EPO! He is bi-polar and a black-belt too.

Work ethic themes substituted for meaning (drugs and training protocols a al Michele Ferrari).

The rotten stinking phony denials that the dope was for: my mother-in-law, my dog, for road rash, it's not mine luggage, it's not my room, I made a mistake but I'm over it now, I've never tested positive when that is meaningless. Or let's move on, blah, blah, blah!

And the fans that buy this [censored] is amazing. Really is.

Advertising themes work as well as steroids.

What is especially interesting to me is when I point out obvious doping lies---how a few chumps attack with ad hominem rants and vicious namecalling. I guess they think if I can be called a 'coward' that somehow Lance's doctor will get his license back sooner---or Tyler will eventually explain why his blood is fishy or why Prentice Steffen would lie?

The truth brings out such emotion. I am on firm ground.

Flyer, you are a cyclist? Tous Dope!

Oke, but still.............WHY POST SO MUCH ABOUT DOPING?????? As I've said in an other thread (which you didn't answer, because I had good points😄 ) there are cheaters/lyers at all layers of the population. So do something usefull and get the press.............NO wait you won't, because you will get sued very hard!!! If youre story is that good......go to the press and tell them what you know.

Serious the reason you hate doping because of cheaters is not the only reason..........I bet some friends of yours have doped went to the wild side or something, youre food for a psychologist! I hate cheaters blalala......give me a break! THERE ARE CHEATERS IN ALL LAYERS OF THE POPULATION. DEAL WITH IT! My biggest worry for the world is not doping in cycling that is youre president.......who feels he can attack every country for some BS excuse of terrorism. The world is getting paranoid, especially in america...........no wonder why you constant post about doping! Paranioaaa:eek:

Flyer said:

I got a lot of time in this sport Daddio.

Well it the blantant commercial fraud and harmful false message to children that I despise most.

Don't get me started on Police on drugs---I know one who is a Carbineri----and gets free EPO! He is bi-polar and a black-belt too.

Work ethic themes substituted for meaning (drugs and training protocols a al Michele Ferrari).

The rotten stinking phony denials that the dope was for: my mother-in-law, my dog, for road rash, it's not mine luggage, it's not my room, I made a mistake but I'm over it now, I've never tested positive when that is meaningless. Or let's move on, blah, blah, blah!

And the fans that buy this [censored] is amazing. Really is.

Advertising themes work as well as steroids.

What is especially interesting to me is when I point out obvious doping lies---how a few chumps attack with ad hominem rants and vicious namecalling. I guess they think if I can be called a 'coward' that somehow Lance's doctor will get his license back sooner---or Tyler will eventually explain why his blood is fishy or why Prentice Steffen would lie?

The truth brings out such emotion. I am on firm ground.

The chief driver and tag of a doper is if they are on living salary funded by an advertising entity.

For NCAA Division 1 sports, alum financial help is offered up to create a 'non-professional' 'professional farm system'----that promotes doping too.

Oympic sports which have no professional league (eg: swimming) have there own doping underbelly.

So, if the shoe fits, wear it.

Tous Dope.

taras0000 said:

Flyer, you are a cyclist? Tous Dope!

Bully for you and your amazing insight into mans evil nature (aka: self-interest and zeal)

I'll tell you what, I'll concentrate my efforts on illegal doping and drug research secrets in pro-cycling and you go out and focus on the New York Stock Exchange, Enron, Worldcom, Tyco and accounting on steroids, juiced numbers, the debate of public vrs private education and corrupt government officials steering municipal contracts for bribes and marijuana legalization.

That ought to keep you busy and leave this important doping forum to cyclists interested in full disclosure.

We keep our eyes on the ball here.

MJtje said:

Oke, but still.............WHY POST SO MUCH ABOUT DOPING?????? As I've said in an other thread (which you didn't answer, because I had good points😄 ) there are cheaters/lyers at all layers of the population. So do something usefull and get the press.............NO wait you won't, because you will get sued very hard!!! If youre story is that good......go to the press and tell them what you know.

Serious the reason you hate doping because of cheaters is not the only reason..........I bet some friends of yours have doped went to the wild side or something, youre food for a psychologist! I hate cheaters blalala......give me a break! THERE ARE CHEATERS IN ALL LAYERS OF THE POPULATION. DEAL WITH IT! My biggest worry for the world is not doping in cycling that is youre president.......who feels he can attack every country for some BS excuse of terrorism. The world is getting paranoid, especially in america...........no wonder why you constant post about doping! Paranioaaa:eek:

Flyer said:

And don't fret I mentor juniors and enjoy it emensely.
I have one doing a stage race in Europe and he is getting a first habd edcuation on doping as I type this. I hope his college days will take him over and away from the dark side. He has gone nearly as far as he can w/o dope. He will decide what to do, not you or I. But at least he won't be surprised.

The facts on doping prove me to be correct.

Since all cyclists dope, I will assume that the junior that you mentor dopes as well. I will never be wrong in this assumption if you are correct.

Thanks for not comprehending anything about widespread doping in professional and top-end elite sport. My junior got shelled OTB after he had crashed into aguy who fell directly in front of him. It was super windy and he got gapped off. He chased and chased and did not get back to the front end of the race---and lost big time.

Now he is exhausted and is reevaluating the Tour, looking now for a consolation prize or result. He was not on meds when he left. I have no control over him now--his Div 3 trade team does, so we'll see. It is exhaustion in stage races that jump-starts the temptation to dope.

But yeah sure, I am a big promotor of doping abuse--preferably at higher dosses than a TDF Champion so as to explode a liver and accerate mortality. That makes better sense than disclosing recovery methods.
Maybe I could just sell drugs, become a drug dealer. No wait, that would be illegal in most countries.

Go back to sleep now.

taras0000 said:

Since all cyclists dope, I will assume that the junior that you mentor dopes as well. I will never be wrong in this assumption if you are correct.

You mentored this kid, "knowing" that his dream was one of 100% doping (:rolleyes🙂 so that's makes you a supporter of doping. Much better logic then anything you throw out on this board.

I can't wait to see your squirming response. LOL

Huh?

Try a Xanax.

House said:

You mentored this kid, "knowing" that his dream was one of 100% doping (:rolleyes🙂 so that's makes you a supporter of doping. Much better logic then anything you throw out on this board.

I can't wait to see your squirming response. LOL