Alloy wheel question

Bruce Jackson said:

My aluminum rims were wearing out at an alarming rate so I
unsucessfully
looked for a cheap hub brake. When I came across a steel wheel with a
good rim but destroyed hub it occured that the steel rim should hold up
to braking a lot longer than aluminum so I built the rim into a front
wheel for my commute. No rim wear and I never had trouble stopping
it even in the rain. No doubt my Dura Ace EX brakes were a lot
better than the cheap stamped steel calipers on most steel wheeled 10
speeds.

I had good brakes (Universal center-pulls) with steel rims at one point in
my life. The braking sucked, especially in the rain. I really don't
recommend using steel rims.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve
_`\(,_ | death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to
(_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
-- J. R. R. Tolkein

Sheldon Brown said:

I nicked:

"Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims"

Quoted message said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Good chromed steel rims work well enough when you ain't got no brakes on
there.

Yes, but _good_ chromed steel rims, like _good_ cottered cranks, have
not been made for nigh on to forty years!

Back in the day, there was considerable skepticism about the reliability
of alumin(i)um parts, especially in Britain, where steel had (has?) a
particular mystique dating from its central place in the Industrial
Revolution...viz, "Raleigh, the All Steel Bicycle."

astute observation. i'd say "has".

Quoted message said:

However, by the late '60s, even the Brits acknowledged that steel was
not optimal for rims nor cranks, and thenceforward, steel was only used
as a cost-saving material for making cheap parts. The standard of
quality of the available steel parts went down accordingly.

Steel rims were made subsequently, but none with quality even remotely
up to the standard previously set by Dunlop.

Steel cottered cranks were made subsequently, but nothing like
Magistroni, or Chater Lea, or even Williams.

The same is true of brake calipers, handlebars, stems, seatpost, hub
shells...

Sheldon "Steel's Not Ideal" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must |
| want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. |
| To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting |
| themselves made President should on no account be |
| allowed to do the job. |
| To summarize the summary of the summary: |
| people are a problem. -- Douglas Adams |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

I said:

Quoted message said:

Yes. "Alloy" (in the bike biz, that's usually a colloquial synonym for
"aluminum"😉 rims are made by extrusion, while steel rims are folded out
of flat stock.

Bruce Jackson said:

This is a peeve of mine too.

Speak for yourself, Bruce. As a soi-disant "cyclexicographer" I have my
share of linguistic peeves, but this is not among them. I have no
problem with people using "alloy" in this well-established colloquial way.

There are many far more egregious neologisms out there.

There can indeed be great pleasure had from linguistic curmudgeing.

I recall the master, [censored] Swann, used to fill the pages of _Bicycling!_
with vituperative vitriol anent the distinction between "axles" and
"spindles", between "clinchers" and "wire-ons." Then there are the
beyond-the-pale subhumans who call a saddle a "seat"... ;-)

The ones that peeve me are "brake arch" "crank arm" and the use of the
singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.

Sheldon "Do Chains 'Stretch'?" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------+
| "O, don't the days seem lank and long |
| When all goes right and nothing goes wrong, |
| And isn't your life extremely flat |
| With nothing whatever to grumble at!" |
| --W.S. Gilbert |
+---------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown said:

The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"

This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).

Quoted message said:

"crank arm"

Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
whole assembly, like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
and apt to cause confusion. "Crankarm" makes no less sense than
"swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
alternative to it.

I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?

Quoted message said:

and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.

I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
just a single tooth. I have never heard the term used to mean the
whole cluster.

Chalo Colina

Sheldon Brown wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

There are many far more egregious neologisms out there.

There can indeed be great pleasure had from linguistic curmudgeing.

<snip>

At least bicyclists don't use "foot pedal", yet.

Dave Lehnen

I whined:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"

Chalo said:

This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).

Well, yes, but that's not all. I have a theory that many technical
terms have their origin in the function of the device, but that when new
inventions get named in foreign languages they often get named based on
what they look like rather than how they work.

For instance, the French word for "countersink bit" is "fraise", i.e.
"strawberry." By extension this leads to the French word for "milling
machine" being "fraiseuse."

Another example is "carburetor" (carburettor east of the Atlantic.) I
seem to recall that the Spanish word for "carburetor" is something like
'little house." (Not sure about that, my technical Spanish is pretty
minimal aside from photographic terms.)

Anyhoo, I believe that this approach to naming technical devices is part
of what keeps the Third World the Third World.

A caliper is a moveable tool commonly used for measuring. A brake
caliper has a functional resemblence to a measuring caliper.

An arch, on the other hand, is a rigid, non-moving structure. I believe
this usage arose from a poor translation from the Japanese.

I don't object to the use of "arch" to describe the main body of a
centerpull caliper, nor to describe a brake booster, nor even to
describe the structure that links the two sliders of a telescopic
suspension fork.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"crank arm"

Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
whole assembly,

Ah, I don't agree with you there. The whole assembly is a "crankset"
("chainset" in Blighty) and consists of a left crank, right crank, and
bottom bracket.

Quoted message said:

like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
and apt to cause confusion.

That's true in most, but not all contexts.

Quoted message said:

"Crankarm" makes no less sense than
"swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
alternative to it.

I myself consider it uselessly and unnecessarily redundundundant in my
own personal opinion.

I hate, abhor and detest useless redundancies that serve no useful
purpose or function whatsoever.

Quoted message said:

I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?

I don't consider the spindle (or is it an axle?) part of the crank.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.

I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
just a single tooth.

I believe this is a truncation of "cogwheel." Some folks on this list
find it objectionable to refer to a sprocket as a "cog" but I'm not one
of them.

Quoted message said:

I have never heard the term used to mean the whole cluster.

Would I were so fortunate!

Sheldon "The Bomb Was Still Ticking, But It Hadn't Gone Off Yet" Brown
+-----------------------------------+
| Habit is the nursery of errors. |
| --Victor Hugo |
+-----------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Dave Lehnen said:

Sheldon Brown wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

There are many far more egregious neologisms out there.

There can indeed be great pleasure had from linguistic curmudgeing.

<snip>

At least bicyclists don't use "foot pedal", yet.

Dave Lehnen

Amen. And we don't pre-mount them either.

dkl

Sheldon Brown said:

I said:

Quoted message said:

Yes. "Alloy" (in the bike biz, that's usually a colloquial synonym for
"aluminum"😉 rims are made by extrusion, while steel rims are folded out
of flat stock.

Bruce Jackson said:

This is a peeve of mine too.

Speak for yourself, Bruce. As a soi-disant "cyclexicographer" I have my
share of linguistic peeves, but this is not among them. I have no
problem with people using "alloy" in this well-established colloquial way.

There are many far more egregious neologisms out there.

There can indeed be great pleasure had from linguistic curmudgeing.

I recall the master, [censored] Swann, used to fill the pages of _Bicycling!_
with vituperative vitriol anent the distinction between "axles" and
"spindles", between "clinchers" and "wire-ons." Then there are the
beyond-the-pale subhumans who call a saddle a "seat"... ;-)

The ones that peeve me are "brake arch" "crank arm" and the use of the
singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.

Sheldon "Do Chains 'Stretch'?" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------+
| "O, don't the days seem lank and long |
| When all goes right and nothing goes wrong, |
| And isn't your life extremely flat |
| With nothing whatever to grumble at!" |
| --W.S. Gilbert |
+---------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Dear Sheldon,

"I'm gonna hop my horsey over yer soldier."

"That's a knight, you clod, not a horsey. And it doesn't
hop--it jumps over pawns, not soldiers. Learn proper chess
terminology!"

"Nah, I'm gonna hop my horsey over yer soldier. There, I
win, right?"

"You fool! The proper term is checkmate."

"Whatever--wanna play again? Why don't I spot you one of my
towers to make things even?"

"Rooks, damn you!"

Carl Fogel

Chalo said:

Sheldon Brown said:

The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"

This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).

Quoted message said:

"crank arm"

Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
whole assembly, like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
and apt to cause confusion. "Crankarm" makes no less sense than
"swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
alternative to it.

I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?

Quoted message said:

and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.

I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
just a single tooth. I have never heard the term used to mean the
whole cluster.

I get the "cog" thing, meaning gear cluster, all the time in Oak Park, IL.

Robin Hubert

Sheldon Brown said:

I whined:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"

Chalo said:

This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).

Well, yes, but that's not all. I have a theory that many technical
terms have their origin in the function of the device, but that when new
inventions get named in foreign languages they often get named based on
what they look like rather than how they work.

For instance, the French word for "countersink bit" is "fraise", i.e.
"strawberry." By extension this leads to the French word for "milling
machine" being "fraiseuse."

Another example is "carburetor" (carburettor east of the Atlantic.) I
seem to recall that the Spanish word for "carburetor" is something like
'little house." (Not sure about that, my technical Spanish is pretty
minimal aside from photographic terms.)

Anyhoo, I believe that this approach to naming technical devices is part
of what keeps the Third World the Third World.

A caliper is a moveable tool commonly used for measuring. A brake
caliper has a functional resemblence to a measuring caliper.

An arch, on the other hand, is a rigid, non-moving structure. I believe
this usage arose from a poor translation from the Japanese.

I don't object to the use of "arch" to describe the main body of a
centerpull caliper, nor to describe a brake booster, nor even to
describe the structure that links the two sliders of a telescopic
suspension fork.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"crank arm"

Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
whole assembly,

Ah, I don't agree with you there. The whole assembly is a "crankset"
("chainset" in Blighty) and consists of a left crank, right crank, and
bottom bracket.

Quoted message said:

like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
and apt to cause confusion.

That's true in most, but not all contexts.

Quoted message said:

"Crankarm" makes no less sense than
"swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
alternative to it.

I myself consider it uselessly and unnecessarily redundundundant in my
own personal opinion

Sheldon,
That's the funniest [censored] I've read on RBT in ages!

Quoted message said:

I hate, abhor and detest useless redundancies that serve no useful
purpose or function whatsoever.

Quoted message said:

I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?

I don't consider the spindle (or is it an axle?) part of the crank.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.

I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
just a single tooth.

I believe this is a truncation of "cogwheel." Some folks on this list
find it objectionable to refer to a sprocket as a "cog" but I'm not one
of them.

Quoted message said:

I have never heard the term used to mean the whole cluster.

Would I were so fortunate!

Cute.

Quoted message said:

Sheldon "The Bomb Was Still Ticking, But It Hadn't Gone Off Yet" Brown
+-----------------------------------+
| Habit is the nursery of errors. |
| --Victor Hugo |
+-----------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Robin Hubert

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Robin Hubert said:

Chalo said:

Sheldon Brown said:

The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"

This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).

Quoted message said:

"crank arm"

Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
whole assembly, like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
and apt to cause confusion. "Crankarm" makes no less sense than
"swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
alternative to it.

I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?

Quoted message said:

and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.

I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
just a single tooth. I have never heard the term used to mean the
whole cluster.

I get the "cog" thing, meaning gear cluster, all the time in Oak Park, IL.

Hello.

Cog, n. [Cf. Sw. kugge a tooth or a cog, or W. cocos the cogs of a
wheel.]
1. (Mech.) A tooth, cam, or catch for imparting or receiving
motion, as on a gear wheel, or a lifter or wiper on a shaft;
originally, a separate piece of wood set in a mortise in the face
of a wheel.

Crank, n. [ME, yarn reel; AS _cranc_ in _crancstaef_, yarn comb
(also in _crencestre_, woman weaver), but basic sense "something
twisted, something used to twist"(cf G _krank_, ill, lit., twisted
by illness); IE base *ger-, to twist, turn]
1. (Mach.) A bent portion of an axle, or shaft, or an arm keyed at
right angles to the end of a shaft, by which motion is imparted to
or received from it; also used to change circular into
reciprocating motion, or reciprocating into circular motion.

--
Michael Press

Quoted message said:

Dear Sheldon,

"I'm gonna hop my horsey over yer soldier."

"That's a knight, you clod, not a horsey. And it doesn't
hop--it jumps over pawns, not soldiers. Learn proper chess
terminology!"

"Nah, I'm gonna hop my horsey over yer soldier. There, I
win, right?"

"You fool! The proper term is checkmate."

"Whatever--wanna play again? Why don't I spot you one of my
towers to make things even?"

"Rooks, damn you!"

Carl Fogel

Now, I'm pretty sure I've seen the original of this, but google isn't
helping me pinpoint. Hint?

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

Dear Sheldon,

"I'm gonna hop my horsey over yer soldier."

"That's a knight, you clod, not a horsey. And it doesn't
hop--it jumps over pawns, not soldiers. Learn proper chess
terminology!"

"Nah, I'm gonna hop my horsey over yer soldier. There, I
win, right?"

"You fool! The proper term is checkmate."

"Whatever--wanna play again? Why don't I spot you one of my
towers to make things even?"

"Rooks, damn you!"

Carl Fogel

Now, I'm pretty sure I've seen the original of this, but google isn't
helping me pinpoint. Hint?

Jasper

Dear Jasper,

[modest cough]

That is the original.

However, Shakespeare based "Seyton" in "Macbeth" (pointedly
pronounced "Satan"😉 on the real Seyton, an actual follower
of the historical king of Scotland mentioned in Holinshed's
Chronicles:

Seyton!--I am sick at heart,
When I behold--Seyton, I say!--

So too may textual scholars one day discover that an episode
of "Starksy and Hutch" (the only one that I ever watched)
involved the crude, ill-educated black-haired detective
moving his "horsey" to whomp his more intellectual blonde
partner* at chess.

I simply expanded it.

*I take a sinful pride in the phrase "more intellectual
blonde partner"--not quite an oxymoron, but you know what I
mean.

Earl Oxford

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:23:36 GMT, Jasper Janssen
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now, I'm pretty sure I've seen the original of this, but google isn't
helping me pinpoint. Hint?

Quoted message said:

Dear Jasper,

[modest cough]

That is the original.

My hat's off to you.

Quoted message said:

So too may textual scholars one day discover that an episode
of "Starksy and Hutch" (the only one that I ever watched)
involved the crude, ill-educated black-haired detective
moving his "horsey" to whomp his more intellectual blonde
partner* at chess.

I simply expanded it.

*I take a sinful pride in the phrase "more intellectual
blonde partner"--not quite an oxymoron, but you know what I
mean.

Especially when it's Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson in the movie.

I still say it rings frighteningly familiar to something, that probably
was in some cartoon or other.

Jasper

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:33:36 GMT, Jasper Janssen
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I still say it rings frighteningly familiar to something, that probably
was in some cartoon or other.

Dear Jasper,

Speaking of cartoons and chess, your inquiry prompted this
cultural windfall via email:

http://www.chess-shop.com/detail.aspx?ID=83

....

....

....

Wow. Lisa as the towers, Bart as the horseys, Krusty as those
diagonal-moving-fellows, and 16 Maggies as pawns[1]. How do people come up
with this sh^Htuff? I suspect the same people perpetrate this sort of
thing as do the 1001 different Monopoly sets (including, of course, the
Simpsons Monopoly.). Did you know there are actual honest-to-god Monopoly
collectors, that try to get copies of all the different versions?

Jasper

[1] I'm not particularly familiar with english chess terminology, having
only played Dutch chess.