Fuji track bike road conversion

Just zis Guy said:

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:31:38 -0700, Benjamin Lewis <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Braking with the front can be dangerous in slippery conditions; if the
front wheel slides, you lose control of the bike.

And this doesn't happen when braking with the back?!?

Not nearly to the same extent, unless you're also braking with the front.
If your rear wheel skids, but your front wheel is unconstrained, you can
still steer. I've skidded my rear wheel on more than one occasion, with no
feeling that I was losing control of the bike.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:31:38 -0700, Benjamin Lewis <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Braking with the front can be dangerous in slippery conditions; if the
front wheel slides, you lose control of the bike.

And this doesn't happen when braking with the back?!?

I rode over 50 miles with hills on a fixed gear with no brake on the rear.
After the ride and the next few days following, I had wished I had a rear
brake.
-tom

"kabes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry if the question is stupid, but still: why a rear brake is needed
on a bike with a freewheel, if it has a front brake?

As I understand it, for road use in the UK it is a legal requirement to have
two independent braking systems. One of these can be back pedalling on your
fixed wheel. On freewheel however you need a rear brake and a front brake. I
suppose you could have two brakes on one wheel ....Mmmm ...... not sure.

If relying on backpedalling on fixed, don't forget the locking ring........

--
Derby, England.

Don't try to email me using "REPLY" as the email address is NoSpam. Our
email address is "thewoodies2 at ntlworld dot com"

Quoted message said:

As I understand it, for road use in the UK it is a legal requirement to have
two independent braking systems. One of these can be back pedalling on your
fixed wheel. On freewheel however you need a rear brake and a front brake. I
suppose you could have two brakes on one wheel ....Mmmm ...... not sure.

Two front brakes on the front wheel is done on trikes by Longstaff, so
apparently it's acceptable in the UK:
http://www.longstaffcycles.co.uk/longstaff/channels/longstaffs_engineering_left/trikes_ttrikes/fframes.htm

Jeff

Tom Nakashima said:

I rode over 50 miles with hills on a fixed gear with no brake on the
rear. After the ride and the next few days following, I had wished I had
a rear brake. -tom

Was there a reason you didn't want to use your front brake?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

Arnaud said:

I'm tempted by a cheap Fuji track bike (about £300)
which seems to be quite popular for road use.

Madgetts in Diss do the Fuji bikes, and will happily fit F+R brakes for you.

http://www.madgettscycles.co.uk/

"Benjamin Lewis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Nakashima said:

I rode over 50 miles with hills on a fixed gear with no brake on the
rear. After the ride and the next few days following, I had wished I had
a rear brake. -tom

Was there a reason you didn't want to use your front brake?

Did use the front brake with backpedaling, descending the steep hills will
still wear you out.
I believe it was Sheldon who told me the legs weren't designed to back pedal
under pressure, and could do damage to the muscles.
-tom

Arnaud said:

Hi,

I want to go fixie for my daily commute!
I'm tempted by a cheap Fuji track bike (about £300) which seems to be
quite popular for road use.
Does anyone know if it is possible to add rear brakes (it's advertised
with front brakes option only) and some sort of basic mudguards on it?

Yes, it's designed for front and rear brakes. Depending on the gearing
and chain length, mudguards will be difficult. A short-reach 105 front
caliper has the pads almost at the very top of their adjustment.

Be warned: it's a very good value bike, but some of the running gear is
a bit nasty. The rear hub is the worst.

Mine is on here:

http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005/weekendupdate/mar26.htm

It has an Easton EA50 seatpost, a Flite saddle and a Goldtec front hub
now. The stock seatpost wasn't quite long enough and the front hub was
a birthday present. I think I've finished messing with it now, except
at some point I'm having it re-enamelled in flam royal blue.

I did a dismal 27:39 in tonight's "10" in windy conditions. I did 26:50
last week, but I don't really get going until the weather is hot.

Stanley said:

As I understand it, for road use in the UK it is a legal requirement to have
two independent braking systems. One of these can be back pedalling on your
fixed wheel. On freewheel however you need a rear brake and a front brake. I
suppose you could have two brakes on one wheel ....Mmmm ...... not sure.

You can have two brakes on one wheel if its a trike, but they still have
to be independently operated in case of a failure.
Most upright trikes have one brake mounted directly behind the other on
the front wheel.

John B

Tom Nakashima said:

"Benjamin Lewis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Nakashima said:

I rode over 50 miles with hills on a fixed gear with no brake on the
rear. After the ride and the next few days following, I had wished I
had a rear brake. -tom

Was there a reason you didn't want to use your front brake?

Did use the front brake with backpedaling, descending the steep hills
will still wear you out. I believe it was Sheldon who told me the legs
weren't designed to back pedal under pressure, and could do damage to the
muscles. -tom

The speed of the pedals is directly proportional to the speed of the bike.
My implied suggestion was to control the speed with only the front brake,
not by back-pedaling. The rear brake doesn't help you any more than the
front in this regard (although there may be other reasons to avoid using
the front brake in some cases, such as concerns with rims overheating).

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

"kabes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry if the question is stupid, but still: why a rear brake is needed
on a bike with a freewheel, if it has a front brake?

Are you after legal or other reasons? If the former will do, 'because you
need two independent braking systems to ride on public roads here' will
answer your question.

cheers,
clive

JeffWills said:

Quoted message said:

As I understand it, for road use in the UK it is a legal requirement to have
two independent braking systems. One of these can be back pedalling on your
fixed wheel. On freewheel however you need a rear brake and a front brake. I
suppose you could have two brakes on one wheel ....Mmmm ...... not sure.

Two front brakes on the front wheel is done on trikes by Longstaff, so
apparently it's acceptable in the UK:
http://www.longstaffcycles.co.uk/longstaff/channels/longstaffs_engineering_left/trikes_ttrikes/fframes.htm

Funny. On kids bikes sold in Canada often there are two rear brakes -
a coaster brake and a hand brake.

Quoted message said:

Jeff

--
--kabes.

Clive George said:

"kabes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry if the question is stupid, but still: why a rear brake is needed
on a bike with a freewheel, if it has a front brake?

Are you after legal or other reasons? If the former will do, 'because you
need two independent braking systems to ride on public roads here' will
answer your question.

Thanks. But the question was about "other" reasons.

Quoted message said:

cheers,
clive

--
--kabes.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Tom Nakashima said:

"Benjamin Lewis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Nakashima wrote:

> I rode over 50 miles with hills on a fixed gear with no brake on the
> rear. After the ride and the next few days following, I had wished I
> had a rear brake. -tom

Was there a reason you didn't want to use your front brake?

Did use the front brake with backpedaling, descending the steep hills
will still wear you out. I believe it was Sheldon who told me the legs
weren't designed to back pedal under pressure, and could do damage to the
muscles. -tom

The speed of the pedals is directly proportional to the speed of
the bike.

_ No, it's proportional to the speed of the rear wheel. In most
situations this is the same as the speed of the bike, but not all.

Quoted message said:

My implied suggestion was to control the speed with only the front brake,
not by back-pedaling. The rear brake doesn't help you any more than the
front in this regard (although there may be other reasons to avoid using
the front brake in some cases, such as concerns with rims overheating).

_ In theory all that's true. In practice a rear brake helps quite
a bit when riding a fixed gear down steep hills, particularly if you have a
relatively heavy wheel and tire. There's a fair bit of rotational
momentum in that wheel and if you brake hard enough to raise the
rear wheel that momentum goes directly to your legs.

_ I think there's also a psychological component to it as well,
having a lever to grab to slow the merry-go-round NOW! is
mentally if not mechanically justified.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Zog The Undeniable said:

I did a dismal 27:39 in tonight's "10" in windy conditions. I did 26:50
last week, but I don't really get going until the weather is hot.

I did 26:13 last week, but this week I didn't get a ride because too
many people turned up - it was a good night, too. I've done 27:23 on
72" and 26:13 on 84" this year. Do you try alternative gears for fun,
or do you always try to pick the one which is going to be fastest?

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

Booker C. Bense said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

The speed of the pedals is directly proportional to the speed of
the bike.

_ No, it's proportional to the speed of the rear wheel. In most
situations this is the same as the speed of the bike, but not all.

Fair enough, but I believe the situation we're discussing falls well in the
range of "most situations".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My implied suggestion was to control the speed with only the front
brake, not by back-pedaling. The rear brake doesn't help you any more
than the front in this regard (although there may be other reasons to
avoid using the front brake in some cases, such as concerns with rims
overheating).

_ In theory all that's true. In practice a rear brake helps quite a bit
when riding a fixed gear down steep hills, particularly if you have a
relatively heavy wheel and tire. There's a fair bit of rotational
momentum in that wheel and if you brake hard enough to raise the rear
wheel that momentum goes directly to your legs.

This is an extreme example, and even so there is no added momentum to the
wheel while braking; it keeps spinning at the rate it was going before the
wheel left the ground. If your legs could handle it then, I contend
they'll be okay for the short period before the back wheel hits the ground
again.

Quoted message said:

_ I think there's also a psychological component to it as well,
having a lever to grab to slow the merry-go-round NOW! is
mentally if not mechanically justified.

There may be a psychological aspect, but the "immediacy" provided by front
braking is just as good, if slightly less intuitive.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

Response to Ryan Cousineau:

Quoted message said:

"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

On the other hand...

"A mathematician is a device for converting caffeine into theorems."
-Paul Erdos

;-)

--
Mark, UK

"Sir, Sunday morning, although recurring at regular and well foreseen
intervals, always seems to take this railway by surprise."

Just zis Guy said:

Why do you want a rear brake on a fixie? Just curious.

Why would you *not* want a rear brake on any bicycle? Straight answer,
if possible? TIA --TP

Arthur Clune said:

But you won't get any of these as a complete bike for £300. In fact, I
suspect the frame costs more for most of those.

Yes. The OP mentioned fender clearance. These are advt. to have such.
Also, as mentioned in this thread, component choice is not great at the
Fuji's price. Suggesting it would be better to get a good frame
designed for fenders (required for some rides), and build it up with
the "spare parts" that many riders have lying about, adding better
quality components until happiness occurs. --TP

Zafod Beeblebrox said:

Quoted message said:

Why do you want a rear brake on a fixie? Just curious.

Quoted message said:

Why would you *not* want a rear brake on any bicycle? Straight answer,
if possible? TIA --TP

The better question for Zafod would have been "why do you want _two_
rear brakes." The drive train of a fixed gear acts as a brake if you
resist the pedal motion.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed

Sheldon "Can Stop With Either Wheel" Brown
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