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OT: Terri Schiavo

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
15 June 2005
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1 July 2005
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Peter Aitken
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  1. The autopsy has confirmed what was in fact known all along - that about half
    of her brain was gone, proving that she was in fact permanently brain dead.
    Of course this had been proven long ago with MRI scans, but the parents and
    their moron supporters could not get this fact thru their skulls. There was
    also no evidence at all that she had been strangled or abused in any other
    way, putting the lie to the nasty accusations made by some so-called people.

    These findings are of course no surprise to any intelligent person who
    followed the case with an open mind. I wonder if the parents or any of the
    [censored] protesters will have the moral fortitude to apologize for all the
    grief they caused. I bet not.

    --
    Peter Aitken

  2. Peter Aitken said:

    The autopsy has confirmed what was in fact known all along - that about half
    of her brain was gone, proving that she was in fact permanently brain dead.
    Of course this had been proven long ago with MRI scans, but the parents and
    their moron supporters could not get this fact thru their skulls. There was
    also no evidence at all that she had been strangled or abused in any other
    way, putting the lie to the nasty accusations made by some so-called people.

    These findings are of course no surprise to any intelligent person who
    followed the case with an open mind. I wonder if the parents or any of the
    [censored] protesters will have the moral fortitude to apologize for all the
    grief they caused. I bet not.

    --
    Peter Aitken

    I read that too, and am glad they published it. But didn't I also read
    they still thought he had done something to her make her collapse in
    the first place or did I just imagine that? I'm sure her parents will
    still not accept the autopsy report.

  3. itsjoannotjoann said:


    I read that too, and am glad they published it. But didn't I also read
    they still thought he had done something to her make her collapse in
    the first place or did I just imagine that? I'm sure her parents will
    still not accept the autopsy report.

    You must have imagine that one. What I recall was that she had an eating disorder
    that caused an electrolyte imbalance which was the cause of a heart attack.

  4. "Peter Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    their moron supporters could not get this fact thru their skulls. There
    was

    Quoted message said:

    so-called people.

    Is there any need to be so cruel in your description of people that disagree
    with you. As someone who chose to care for my own mother myself rather than
    relegate her to a nursing home permanently as many of my friends and family
    wanted me to do, the Terri Schiavo case strikes a cord with me.

    Regardless of whether or not she was in a vegetative state, there were those
    that felt it was cruel to have her only means of nutrition removed so she
    could starve to death.

    Whether or not you agree or disagree, there is no need to be so heartless
    with these types of verbal attacks. And, I also agree that I think her
    husband also was demonized. I'm not a blind supporter of either side, but
    when I see words like "so-called people" used because there were some that
    had some hope that she could live and didn't support starvation as a means
    of ending her life, I really must question what is happening to our society
    at large. AFAIK, her parents couldn't even attend her burial. Something
    isn't right there. Flame away.

    Larry

  5. "itsjoannotjoann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    But didn't I also read
    they still thought he had done something to her make her collapse in
    the first place or did I just imagine that? I'm sure her parents will
    still not accept the autopsy report.

    Yes, this case is far from over. IMO, removing the feeding tube was the
    right thing to do. OTOH, if he did do something to cause her problem, I hope
    they can prove it and let him starve in jail for years.

  6. Larry G said:


    Regardless of whether or not she was in a vegetative state, there were those
    that felt it was cruel to have her only means of nutrition removed so she
    could starve to death.

    And there are those of us who think it cruel to keep her hooked up to a feeding
    tube.

    Quoted message said:

    Whether or not you agree or disagree, there is no need to be so heartless
    with these types of verbal attacks.

    Some of them deserve the attacks. Right at the top of the list would be the
    medical expert who denied she was in a chronic vegetative state. With the
    autopsy bearing out what had been claimed all along, he was either not very good
    at recognizing the symptoms in a matter in which he is supposed to be expert, or
    he's just not very good at telling the truth.

    Quoted message said:

    And, I also agree that I think her
    husband also was demonized. I'm not a blind supporter of either side, but
    when I see words like "so-called people" used because there were some that
    had some hope that she could live and didn't support starvation as a means
    of ending her life, I really must question what is happening to our society
    at large. AFAIK, her parents couldn't even attend her burial. Something
    isn't right there. Flame away.

    They are "so-called people" because they rally around the misery of others to
    push their own agenda. They really don't care who suffers so long as they have a
    platform for their personal believes.

  7. itsjoannotjoann said:


    I'm sure her parents will still not accept the autopsy report.

    Then they're brain dead too.

    Sheldon

  8. Dave Smith said:
    itsjoannotjoann said:


    I read that too, and am glad they published it. But didn't I also read
    they still thought he had done something to her make her collapse in
    the first place or did I just imagine that? I'm sure her parents will
    still not accept the autopsy report.



    Your are both correct. The parents accused him from day one of abusing
    her, giving her poison etc, etc. Also it was reported that she was
    obsessed(sp) with staying thin to the point of eating a little then
    forcing herself to throw up. The parents have already said they don't
    believe the two doctors report. There were no indications of any abuse
    at any time.

  9. Larry said:

    Is there any need to be so cruel in your description of people that disagree
    with you. As someone who chose to care for my own mother myself rather than
    relegate her to a nursing home permanently as many of my friends and family
    wanted me to do, the Terri Schiavo case strikes a cord with me.

    I'm not speaking for Peter, but...it wasn't the people who disagreed
    with *him* who he was disparaging, but the people who disagreed with
    the *doctors*. Mrs. Shiavo was literally among the living dead.

    Again, I speak only for myself.

    As for you taking care of your mother...that's wonderful if you can do
    that. My family had to decide if my Gramma was going to die of cancer
    in a nursing home, or in my aunt & uncle's home. We chose the aunt &
    uncle's home, here in Indy. My mother and I came down on weekends to
    give them a break. Ironically, the 2 loudest proponents of the nursing
    home solution were the 2 who absolutely refused to even visit her, let
    alone take care of her. Too bad for them....they will never know how
    much they missed. And I thank God I had the opportunity to do what I
    did.

    Mrs. Shiavo undoubtedly died a horrible death...but as most
    neurologists will tell you, that death started years before the feeding
    tube was removed.

    Sometimes, this is what love is; doing what you don't want to do,
    seeing what you don't want to see, because this is what the person who
    is dying would want. It's hard.

    What I resent about Mrs. Shiavo's death....it should have stayed a
    family affair. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Lisa Ann

  10. On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 02:57:03 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "itsjoannotjoann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    But didn't I also read
    they still thought he had done something to her make her collapse in
    the first place or did I just imagine that?

    There were angry allegations. The autopsy disproved them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm sure her parents will
    still not accept the autopsy report.



    You're probably right. Reason has left the arena. Talk about a case
    in which the legal/political system has intruded into a horribly
    painful private matter. I can only imagine the pain endured by all
    involved -- parents and husband both.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, this case is far from over. IMO, removing the feeding tube was the
    right thing to do. OTOH, if he did do something to cause her problem, I hope
    they can prove it and let him starve in jail for years.


    There was no evidence of foul play, according to the autopsy report.
    She had a heart attack that shut off circulation to her brain long
    enough that large, significant portions of it were dead by the time
    circulation resumed. Also the visual center in her brain was
    atrophied, so parental claims of her exhibiting signs of recognition
    have been proved false. It's understandable to hope against evidence.
    I'm a father, too. But after a time one has to accept the facts. Her
    brain was only about half the weight of a normal one. The degree of
    atrophy exceeded the damage done by fatal Alzheimer's, again according
    to the autopsy report.

    modom

    Only superficial people don't judge by appearances.
    -- Oscar Wilde

  11. Dave Smith said:
    itsjoannotjoann said:


    I read that too, and am glad they published it. But didn't I also read
    they still thought he had done something to her make her collapse in
    the first place or did I just imagine that? I'm sure her parents will
    still not accept the autopsy report.

    You must have imagine that one. What I recall was that she had an eating disorder
    that caused an electrolyte imbalance which was the cause of a heart attack.


    The autopsy report disputes claims that an eating disorder caused the
    heart attack.

    modom

    Only superficial people don't judge by appearances.
    -- Oscar Wilde

  12. Peter Aitken said:

    The autopsy has confirmed what was in fact known all along - that about half
    of her brain was gone, proving that she was in fact permanently brain dead.
    Of course this had been proven long ago with MRI scans, but the parents and
    their moron supporters could not get this fact thru their skulls. There was
    also no evidence at all that she had been strangled or abused in any other
    way, putting the lie to the nasty accusations made by some so-called people.

    These findings are of course no surprise to any intelligent person who
    followed the case with an open mind. I wonder if the parents or any of the
    [censored] protesters will have the moral fortitude to apologize for all the
    grief they caused. I bet not.

    --
    Peter Aitken

    It was a very sad case. I worked in nursing homes and hospitals for
    years and have met many difficult families. Sometimes they want to keep
    on collecting Social Security payments, other times it is very
    emotional. Most nurses I know want no cpr for themselves.

    I did not like how that poor woman's last days were on the news every
    day and that politicians got involved. I considered it a family
    matter, and Terry should have gone with the dignity she deserved. I
    know from experience that families don't always agree on such issues,
    but it's not our, the public's, business. Ask any woman if they would
    like to be filmed for national tv as Terry was.

    There were issues before my mother died a year ago. One brother called
    the police on my father, her main caretaker, from 300 miles away (that
    really scared her). Another brother hung up on Dad on the phone
    shortly before Mom's death. Dad is an old guy and had a lot on his
    hands and did his best, with nursing help. My godparents (very old
    friends of Mom} and some of my childhood friends visited my parents
    before and said that Dad took excellent care of Mom. I know these
    people well and they wouldn't lie to me. At the home after the
    funeral, Dad showed us pictures of the mess Mom had made due to her
    dementia - sort of seemed like he felt lawsuits would come. So sad. The
    one brother who called the cops on Dad has five children and none of
    them, some adults, attended her funeral. After this, knowing how the
    money had been handled, I have had no contact with either brother
    because they didn't like it. Money is so much a factor in many things.
    The oldest brother's daughter had a flat effect - no feeling.

    But, what the hey. I have to get my living will and such in or∂er.

    karen

  13. "Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    And there are those of us who think it cruel to keep her hooked up to a
    feeding
    tube.

    I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that you can disagree without tossing
    names.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Whether or not you agree or disagree, there is no need to be so heartless
    with these types of verbal attacks.

    Some of them deserve the attacks. Right at the top of the list would be
    the
    medical expert who denied she was in a chronic vegetative state. With the
    autopsy bearing out what had been claimed all along, he was either not
    very good
    at recognizing the symptoms in a matter in which he is supposed to be
    expert, or
    he's just not very good at telling the truth.

    She was brain damaged, not brain dead. There is a difference. Where are we
    going to draw the line with euthanasia?

    Quoted message said:

    They are "so-called people" because they rally around the misery of others
    to
    push their own agenda. They really don't care who suffers so long as they
    have a
    platform for their personal believes.

    I think all sides are guilty of that. As I said, I'm not a blind follower of
    either side. Obviously she was not living a good quality of life. I do think
    her husband was demonized in this. But, I also feel for her parents.

    Larry

  14. "Lisa Ann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not speaking for Peter, but...it wasn't the people who disagreed
    with *him* who he was disparaging, but the people who disagreed with
    the *doctors*. Mrs. Shiavo was literally among the living dead.

    Yep, it's a hard thing where she is concerned. I know she is in a better
    place, and the whole thing was pretty needless. I just worry about where we
    are going in the road on euthanasia. In actually, it was the morphene drip
    that hastened her death, as much as the removal of the feeding tube.

    What bothers me is that according to reports, there was a window of recovery
    that was missed, and she was allowed to languish. That and the fact that
    there was some question as to how she got into the vegetative state in the
    first place and how the parents were locked out of some memorials and the
    burial raise a flag for me. But, yeah I do think she's better off now than
    she was before. BUT, I also think somone like Christopher Reeve is better
    off now than he was before. The question has to be: Where do we draw the
    line when we have to the technology to keep a person alive vs. quality of
    life issues and how well the person has life in them.

    Quoted message said:


    Again, I speak only for myself.

    As for you taking care of your mother...that's wonderful if you can do
    that. My family had to decide if my Gramma was going to die of cancer
    in a nursing home, or in my aunt & uncle's home. We chose the aunt &
    uncle's home, here in Indy. My mother and I came down on weekends to
    give them a break. Ironically, the 2 loudest proponents of the nursing
    home solution were the 2 who absolutely refused to even visit her, let
    alone take care of her. Too bad for them....they will never know how
    much they missed. And I thank God I had the opportunity to do what I
    did.

    Yep, I went through a similar situation. My mom's in her 50s. She's not
    terminal, but she has a lot wrong with her. She is legally blind, has
    suffered a stroke (but recovered), is a type 1 diabetic, and suffered a
    broken hip. She languished in a nursing facility, so I decided to take her
    home. My family gave me much grief, even though they rarely visited her. I
    refused to let my mom languish. We are still moving along, and I have hope
    for a complete recovery for my mom. But according to my family's morality, I
    was "in the wrong", because they told me I wasn't "facing facts". They would
    have rather I had her in a nursing home and forgot about her. I felt as long
    as she wanted to be home, then it was doable.

    My mom is in no way as bad as Terri Schiavo. But, I do worry about the moral
    bar of society, where it's almost becoming a "sin" not to euthanize someone
    with health problems. I'm wondering where we will draw the line. Mrs.
    Schiavo was obviously brain damaged, but so are a lot of people. The
    question becomes, where we draw the line to ease their pain and allow them
    to pass without wallowing in pain and suffering. What concerns me is that
    decision was taken away from her blood relations against their wishes.

    It is a sad situation all the way around. The only lesson each of us can
    come away with is to have written notice of our wishes in a similar
    situation.

    Quoted message said:


    Mrs. Shiavo undoubtedly died a horrible death...but as most
    neurologists will tell you, that death started years before the feeding
    tube was removed.

    Sometimes, this is what love is; doing what you don't want to do,
    seeing what you don't want to see, because this is what the person who
    is dying would want. It's hard.

    What I resent about Mrs. Shiavo's death....it should have stayed a
    family affair. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I understand completely. In my case, if I thought my mom would have received
    better care in a home, I would have left her there or placed her in another.
    But from my experience, she is much better off in her own home.

    Politically if anyone is wondering, I consider myself a moderate, however
    with government cutting of programs that allow for home care, I lean toward
    the liberal/left end of the spectrum. But, obviously, I leaned toward the
    conservative viewpoint in the Schiavo case in general.

    I think neither side of the political debate is spot on these days. I just
    worry about a general feeling that it is better to terminate the lives of
    the ill or physically disabled, and that concerns me deeply. We aren't there
    yet, but I fear for what the future holds.

    Larry

  15. "modom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Dave Smith said:
    itsjoannotjoann said:


    I read that too, and am glad they published it. But didn't I also read
    they still thought he had done something to her make her collapse in
    the first place or did I just imagine that? I'm sure her parents will
    still not accept the autopsy report.

    You must have imagine that one. What I recall was that she had an eating
    disorder
    that caused an electrolyte imbalance which was the cause of a heart
    attack.


    The autopsy report disputes claims that an eating disorder caused the
    heart attack.

    Not really - it says they found "no evidence" of an eating disorder. But I
    wonder how many signs of an eating disorder would still be present 15 years
    later. Would you expect to find evidence? The news stories I read did not
    say anything about this, but I find it hard to believe that purging or
    overdosing on tea would cause severe physical changes that would be
    detectable in an autopsy after more than a decade.

    --
    Peter Aitken

  16. "Larry G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Peter Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    their moron supporters could not get this fact thru their skulls. There
    was

    Quoted message said:

    so-called people.

    Is there any need to be so cruel in your description of people that
    disagree with you.

    It has nothing to do with disagreeing with me per se. It has everything to
    do with people who ignore facts, abandon reason, lie incessantly, and
    manipulate others for their own religious and political purposes. Those
    protesters at the nursing home, the ones who would fall to their knees
    whever a TV camera appeared, were enough to make one vomit.

    --
    Peter Aitken

  17. "Larry G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Lisa Ann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not speaking for Peter, but...it wasn't the people who disagreed
    with *him* who he was disparaging, but the people who disagreed with
    the *doctors*. Mrs. Shiavo was literally among the living dead.

    Yep, it's a hard thing where she is concerned. I know she is in a better
    place, and the whole thing was pretty needless. I just worry about where
    we are going in the road on euthanasia. In actually, it was the morphene
    drip that hastened her death, as much as the removal of the feeding tube.

    What bothers me is that according to reports, there was a window of
    recovery that was missed, and she was allowed to languish. '

    That is apparently false, more propaganda from the parents and their
    supporters. She received plenty of therapy and I believe her husband even
    got training so he could participate.

    Quoted message said:

    That and the fact that there was some question as to how she got into the
    vegetative state in the first place

    The so-called questions were nasty and completely unsubstantiated attacks
    coming from the parents and their supporters. It was a tactic of raising
    doubts about the husband to advance their own agenda.

    Quoted message said:

    and how the parents were locked out of some memorials and the burial raise
    a flag for me.

    Given the way they have behaved what do you expect? One can still I suppose
    squeeze out a little sorrow for them, but through this whole thing they have
    been truly horrible, nasty, and vindictive. I like to think they were
    manipulated by Randall Terry and the other filth, but their behavior is
    still their responsibility.

    Quoted message said:

    But, yeah I do think she's better off now than she was before. BUT, I also
    think somone like Christopher Reeve is better off now than he was before.

    You do? I find that really strange. Reeve was in a miserable situation to be
    sure but he was leading an active and productive life for many years. There
    are no parallels at all with the Schiavo case.

    Quoted message said:

    The question has to be: Where do we draw the line when we have to the
    technology to keep a person alive vs. quality of life issues and how well
    the person has life in them.

    Quoted message said:

    That's an important question. But just because we cannot draw a clear line
    that almost everyone agrees on does not mean we should do nothing in cases
    where every shred of evidence indicates that a person is, for all intesnts
    and purposes, already dead.

    --
    Peter Aitken

  18. Peter Aitken said:

    "Larry G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Lisa Ann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not speaking for Peter, but...it wasn't the people who disagreed
    with *him* who he was disparaging, but the people who disagreed with
    the *doctors*. Mrs. Shiavo was literally among the living dead.

    Yep, it's a hard thing where she is concerned. I know she is in a better
    place, and the whole thing was pretty needless. I just worry about where
    we are going in the road on euthanasia. In actually, it was the morphene
    drip that hastened her death, as much as the removal of the feeding tube.

    What bothers me is that according to reports, there was a window of
    recovery that was missed, and she was allowed to languish. '

    That is apparently false, more propaganda from the parents and their
    supporters. She received plenty of therapy and I believe her husband even
    got training so he could participate.

    Quoted message said:

    That and the fact that there was some question as to how she got into the
    vegetative state in the first place

    The so-called questions were nasty and completely unsubstantiated attacks
    coming from the parents and their supporters. It was a tactic of raising
    doubts about the husband to advance their own agenda.

    Quoted message said:

    and how the parents were locked out of some memorials and the burial raise
    a flag for me.

    Given the way they have behaved what do you expect? One can still I suppose
    squeeze out a little sorrow for them, but through this whole thing they have
    been truly horrible, nasty, and vindictive. I like to think they were
    manipulated by Randall Terry and the other filth, but their behavior is
    still their responsibility.

    Quoted message said:

    But, yeah I do think she's better off now than she was before. BUT, I also
    think somone like Christopher Reeve is better off now than he was before.

    You do? I find that really strange. Reeve was in a miserable situation to be
    sure but he was leading an active and productive life for many years. There
    are no parallels at all with the Schiavo case.

    Quoted message said:

    The question has to be: Where do we draw the line when we have to the
    technology to keep a person alive vs. quality of life issues and how well
    the person has life in them.

    Quoted message said:

    That's an important question. But just because we cannot draw a clear line
    that almost everyone agrees on does not mean we should do nothing in cases
    where every shred of evidence indicates that a person is, for all intesnts
    and purposes, already dead.
    Peter Aitken

    An important question but exceedingly easy to answer... legislate that
    all adults (over 21 or emancipated) draw up a living will or absent
    doing so each State have its default living will in place.

    Terry's fate can't be blamed on anyone but herself... and she got to
    live (if you call that living) many more years than anyone in her
    situation deserved, the State treated her MORE than fairly, every
    benefit of the doubt was granted and then some.

    Hopefully a lesson was learned from Terry and her predicament was not
    endured in vain... the State needs to step up to the plate NOW... far
    too many do not have any will... I've heard a lot of talk during the
    Terry ordeal, about how folks were going right out to have a living
    will executed, but talk is cheap, very few did. More than half the
    people in the US die without having any will... all that
    procrastination accomplishes is enriching lawyers.... only costs a
    couple-three hundred bucks to have a lawyer execute a simple will... a
    whole lot less than the tens of thousands lawyers take for litigation
    when there is no will. You can make your will yourself for like $25
    but I strongly suggest having a lawyer execute the document... it's a
    very good idea to re-examine your will every five years so pertinent
    changes can be made and any decent lawyer will remind you when it's
    time. You'd be amazed at how many divorce, remarry, and never change
    their will... which is as bad as remarrying before getting divorced,
    and that happens too, a lot... or when a spouse dies, many will changes
    take place immediately after a spouse of a lengthy marriage passes.
    That's when assets get redistributed so that unfavored children are
    written out and/or everything is left to some favorite charity/church.
    Pitiful people deserve the fate they subscribe to.

    Sheldon

  19. "Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Hopefully a lesson was learned from Terry and her predicament was not
    endured in vain... the State needs to step up to the plate NOW... far
    too many do not have any will... I've heard a lot of talk during the
    Terry ordeal, about how folks were going right out to have a living
    will executed, but talk is cheap, very few did. More than half the
    people in the US die without having any will... all that
    procrastination accomplishes is enriching lawyers.... only costs a
    couple-three hundred bucks to have a lawyer execute a simple will... a
    whole lot less than the tens of thousands lawyers take for litigation
    when there is no will. You can make your will yourself for like $25
    but I strongly suggest having a lawyer execute the document... it's a
    very good idea to re-examine your will every five years so pertinent
    changes can be made and any decent lawyer will remind you when it's
    time. You'd be amazed at how many divorce, remarry, and never change
    their will... which is as bad as remarrying before getting divorced,
    and that happens too, a lot... or when a spouse dies, many will changes
    take place immediately after a spouse of a lengthy marriage passes.
    That's when assets get redistributed so that unfavored children are
    written out and/or everything is left to some favorite charity/church.
    Pitiful people deserve the fate they subscribe to.

    Sheldon

    Sheldon is spot on. Listen to da man.

    If there are those of you out there who do not have a Living Will (Advanced
    Health Care Directive) just google "Free Living Will" you'll find many state
    specific sites. Just fill out the form and I would have it notarized. Have
    your local hospital or your Atty. or the mother-in-law who hates you, keep it on
    file. There is little or almost no cost and then there is no doubt about your
    wishes or who will have the your durable power of Attorney.

    Please just do it.

    You don't have to decide who gets what - that is a separate issue and a
    different document.

    Dimitri.

  20. "Peter Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The autopsy has confirmed what was in fact known all along - that about half
    of her brain was gone, proving that she was in fact permanently brain dead. Of
    course this had been proven long ago with MRI scans, but the parents and their
    moron supporters could not get this fact thru their skulls. There was also no
    evidence at all that she had been strangled or abused in any other way,
    putting the lie to the nasty accusations made by some so-called people.

    These findings are of course no surprise to any intelligent person who
    followed the case with an open mind. I wonder if the parents or any of the
    [censored] protesters will have the moral fortitude to apologize for all the
    grief they caused. I bet not.

    --
    Peter Aitken

    After all is said and done I do have a level of sympathy for her brother and
    parents. IMHO their irrational and persistent beliefs have ruined their lives.
    Unfortunately I think the advise they got and have been getting is not only
    erroneous but self-serving and ultimately malicious.

    The need to move on and put this tragedy behind them.

    Dimitri

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