To upgrade or not ?

"Lou D'Amelio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation. I'm a 45 year old Cat V. Been riding for twelve years, in
my second season of steady racing. In an average week in season, I can
train about ten hours. Overall, I ride about 5,000 miles a year. I'm
about as fit as I can realistically get given my non-cycling
responsibilities and genes. (I'm a surgeon in a leadership position and
regularly work about 90 hours a week plus I have a wife and three
kids.) In USCF Cat V races, I do reasonably well - I generally finish
top ten-fifteen in fields of 50 - I lack the sprint of some of the
younger riders but can drive the pace at the front pretty well, cover
breaks, etc. In the few 45+ crits I've entered, I've gotten dropped as
the speeds/fitness are higher than I can realistically achieve. A few
guys in my situation in the area choose to remain as perpetual V's to
remain competitive. I thought that this would be a reasonable option,
but I've disliked the poor bike handling/lack of common sense that
sometimes occurs in the V's. This weekend was the straw that broke the
camels back - in out state championship RR, a couple of knuckleheads
were all over the place and caused two serious crashes, including one
which landed me in the ER and trashed my bike. I don't want to race the
V's any more for the obvious safety reasons. So, this brings me to my
question:

Should I upgrade (I have my ten races and then some)? Will I get
shelled in the IV's and just be wasting my entry fees ? Should I just
do the 45 + races that suit me (I more of a rouleur than a grimpeur and
might be able to hang in as pack filler for flat RR's)? Or should I
just hang it up and just stick to my club's training races (competitive
but sensible)and TT's (where I'm the only knucklehead who can kill me)
?

I know there's no simple answer to this question, but I'd like to hear
what people think.

TIA for replies..............Lou D'Amelio

I'd stay away from the Cat 5 crew. Time trials are a great way of having
fun for some. It's a lot like childbirth--you don't remember the pain as
being that bad after it's done. I think that you'll find many of the
Masters 45+ to be quite competitive as well. But give it a try and see how
you do. It sounds like you might have a good time in some 45+ road races as
opposed to a crit.
With your responsibilities caution is needed, squirrels are not.

On 27 Jun 2005 16:22:43 -0700, "Lou D'Amelio" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation. I'm a 45 year old Cat V. Been riding for twelve years, in
my second season of steady racing. In an average week in season, I can
train about ten hours. Overall, I ride about 5,000 miles a year. I'm
about as fit as I can realistically get given my non-cycling
responsibilities and genes. (I'm a surgeon in a leadership position and
regularly work about 90 hours a week plus I have a wife and three
kids.) In USCF Cat V races, I do reasonably well - I generally finish
top ten-fifteen in fields of 50 - I lack the sprint of some of the
younger riders but can drive the pace at the front pretty well, cover
breaks, etc. In the few 45+ crits I've entered, I've gotten dropped as
the speeds/fitness are higher than I can realistically achieve. A few
guys in my situation in the area choose to remain as perpetual V's to
remain competitive. I thought that this would be a reasonable option,
but I've disliked the poor bike handling/lack of common sense that
sometimes occurs in the V's. This weekend was the straw that broke the
camels back - in out state championship RR, a couple of knuckleheads
were all over the place and caused two serious crashes, including one
which landed me in the ER and trashed my bike. I don't want to race the
V's any more for the obvious safety reasons. So, this brings me to my
question:

Should I upgrade (I have my ten races and then some)? Will I get
shelled in the IV's and just be wasting my entry fees ? Should I just
do the 45 + races that suit me (I more of a rouleur than a grimpeur and
might be able to hang in as pack filler for flat RR's)? Or should I
just hang it up and just stick to my club's training races (competitive
but sensible)and TT's (where I'm the only knucklehead who can kill me)
?

I know there's no simple answer to this question, but I'd like to hear
what people think.

TIA for replies..............Lou D'Amelio

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Lou D'Amelio said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation.

Dumbass Masters Fattie -

You deserve to get flamed just for posting this question because the
only one who can answer it is yourself.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

"Lou D'Amelio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation. I'm a 45 year old Cat V. Been riding for twelve years, in
my second season of steady racing. In an average week in season, I can
train about ten hours.

10 hours a week!?! That's enough to be competitive in the 3s. You're
obviously not training right.

Where do you find the time? My new job is taking care of surgeons and I'm
also puting in the 80 hour weeks. My fitness now sucks.

-Andy B.

Andy Birko said:

"Lou D'Amelio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation. I'm a 45 year old Cat V. Been riding for twelve years, in
my second season of steady racing. In an average week in season, I can
train about ten hours.

10 hours a week!?! That's enough to be competitive in the 3s. You're
obviously not training right.

Where do you find the time? My new job is taking care of surgeons and I'm
also puting in the 80 hour weeks. My fitness now sucks.

He's got a slow clock.

Andy Birko said:

"Lou D'Amelio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation. I'm a 45 year old Cat V. Been riding for twelve years, in
my second season of steady racing. In an average week in season, I can
train about ten hours.

10 hours a week!?! That's enough to be competitive in the 3s. You're
obviously not training right.

Where do you find the time? My new job is taking care of surgeons and I'm
also puting in the 80 hour weeks. My fitness now sucks.

He's got a fast watch. His TT times must suck.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

You deserve to get flamed

*** Silly [censored],

While we are truly the only ones capable
of answering our own questions, reasonably
considered responses go a long way to filling
out what we may already know to be true.

Scientific method and all that, you bitter old queen.

---
k e i t h a l e x a n d e r
http://www.nootrope.net
http://www.keithalexander.com/blog
http://www.modernamerican.com

- - e n d t r a n s m i s s i o n - -

On 27 Jun 2005 16:22:43 -0700, "Lou D'Amelio" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation. I'm a 45 year old Cat V. Been riding for twelve years, in
my second season of steady racing.

Quoted message said:

In an average week in season, I can
train about ten hours.

Quoted message said:

regularly work about 90 hours a week plus I have a wife and three
kids.)

Whoa -- I can't imagine being able to consistently do 10 hour weeks
working that much. Perhaps the issue for you is lack of sleep?

If you're getting reasonable sleep, then with 10 hours a week you
should be fine in any lower category. I imagine you need to adjust
your training, perhaps with more emphasis on speed.

JT

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"Lou D'Amelio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation. I'm a 45 year old Cat V. Been riding for twelve years, in
my second season of steady racing. In an average week in season, I can
train about ten hours. Overall, I ride about 5,000 miles a year. I'm
about as fit as I can realistically get given my non-cycling
responsibilities and genes. (I'm a surgeon in a leadership position and
regularly work about 90 hours a week plus I have a wife and three
kids.)

IMHO your family relationships are suffering. Everybody I know in your
position is never married or divorced. I knew a guy who was divorced. He
used to drag his 11 year old daughter to his races and training races on the
occasions he had custody. Oh he got his masters top twenties. You only
have kids once.

Enjoy riding and the fitness that comes from it. Enjoy your family more.

"Lou D'Amelio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

So, this brings me to my
question:

Should I upgrade (I have my ten races and then some)?

Yes! Absolutely.

Will I get

Quoted message said:

shelled in the IV's and just be wasting my entry fees ?

I doubt it will be much faster than the cat-5's. Around here, they are
combined anyway, and some guys start the season as a 5, and upgrade to 3 by
their 4th or 5th race, while others stay cat-4 forever. So there could be
some potentially strong but squirrelly guys in the cat-5s. Sometimes the
4's or, even the 3's are not any faster, but smoother, which makes it
actually easier.

Should I just

Quoted message said:

do the 45 + races that suit me (I more of a rouleur than a grimpeur and
might be able to hang in as pack filler for flat RR's)?

that's a good option too.

just my opinions...
suz

Lou D'Amelio said:

Should I upgrade (I have my ten races and then some)? Will I get
shelled in the IV's and just be wasting my entry fees ? Should I just
do the 45 + races that suit me (I more of a rouleur than a grimpeur and
might be able to hang in as pack filler for flat RR's)? Or should I
just hang it up and just stick to my club's training races (competitive
but sensible)and TT's (where I'm the only knucklehead who can kill me)
?

There are knuckleheads at every level and age group, though I concede
there may be less in the 45+.

One year ago I had suffered and sacrificed a lot training hard to
improve on the previous year's 4th place at the NC/SC State RR Champs.
In a race two weeks prior, I was taken down by a teammate in the 35/45s
after we had placed 4 of us in a 12 man break I was instrumental in
forming and which ultimately stayed away. He crossed the centerline and
came back into me. [censored], 3 of 4 of us out of the race. Me, toast for
States.

You've got to be somewhat of a knucklehead to race to begin with. Now, I
just do the local weekly training "race" where some people are still
knuckleheads but at least I can mostly just laugh it off or shake my
head in disbelief.

I can't imagine purposefully sandbagging to be competitive. I'd rather
be challenged by the better racing of a higher category.

Wayne

"Lou D'Amelio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation. I'm a 45 year old Cat V. Been riding for twelve years, in
my second season of steady racing. In an average week in season, I can
train about ten hours. Overall, I ride about 5,000 miles a year. I'm
about as fit as I can realistically get given my non-cycling
responsibilities and genes. (I'm a surgeon in a leadership position and
regularly work about 90 hours a week plus I have a wife and three
kids.) In USCF Cat V races, I do reasonably well - I generally finish
top ten-fifteen in fields of 50 - I lack the sprint of some of the
younger riders but can drive the pace at the front pretty well, cover
breaks, etc. In the few 45+ crits I've entered, I've gotten dropped as
the speeds/fitness are higher than I can realistically achieve. A few
guys in my situation in the area choose to remain as perpetual V's to
remain competitive. I thought that this would be a reasonable option,
but I've disliked the poor bike handling/lack of common sense that
sometimes occurs in the V's. This weekend was the straw that broke the
camels back - in out state championship RR, a couple of knuckleheads
were all over the place and caused two serious crashes, including one
which landed me in the ER and trashed my bike. I don't want to race the
V's any more for the obvious safety reasons. So, this brings me to my
question:

Should I upgrade (I have my ten races and then some)? Will I get
shelled in the IV's and just be wasting my entry fees ? Should I just
do the 45 + races that suit me (I more of a rouleur than a grimpeur and
might be able to hang in as pack filler for flat RR's)? Or should I
just hang it up and just stick to my club's training races (competitive
but sensible)and TT's (where I'm the only knucklehead who can kill me)
?

I know there's no simple answer to this question, but I'd like to hear
what people think.

TIA for replies..............Lou D'Amelio

It sounds to me like you're in denial about your responsibilities. If you
race, you're in danger of crashing. Sooner or later, your number will come
up. What can you afford to lose? I've basically lost six months out of my
life ... twice. I have my own business and have a manager who runs it. I
was very fortunate that I didn't have to miss a paycheck. But I screwed up
my life and the lives of my loved ones for a good year trying to chase a
pretty silly dream into my mid-40s. It's one thing if you're young and
strong and single and stupid. It's another thing if you're older and
married and have children and you're a surgeon and you're still stupid.

Enjoy cycling as a great escape and a great exercise. Train with the racers
when they train. Push yourself in those situations. I train with the local
college race team and do the local practice races. There's still an element
of danger, but the testasterone is definately dialed down a notch or two and
the competition is friendly.

You're 45. Lance isn't going to be calling to have you replace Eki in the
Discovery TdF lineup.

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

Lou D'Amelio said:

Looking for considered opinions (please, no Masters Fatty flames) for
my situation. I'm a 45 year old Cat V. Been riding for twelve years, in
my second season of steady racing. In an average week in season, I can
train about ten hours. Overall, I ride about 5,000 miles a year. I'm
about as fit as I can realistically get given my non-cycling
responsibilities and genes. (I'm a surgeon in a leadership position and
regularly work about 90 hours a week plus I have a wife and three
kids.)

upgrade, it's fun, and it will make you faster.
like some others say, concentrate on TT's, they require less time
per week than any other cycling event. Concentrate on strength and
speed, and don't worry about endurance, acceleration, or climbing -
it's a lost cause.
10 hours a week is enough to be a good cat 3, master, no junk miles,
don't worry about endurance, do crits and tt's, and have fun.
your a dr. right? buy a crazy tricked out TT bike, get a cervelo or
a Guru and some zipps.
train as hard as you can...and rest off the bike. short and intense is
the name of the game.

psycholist said:

You're 45. Lance isn't going to be calling to have you replace Eki in the
Discovery TdF lineup.

Dude, you don't get it. At 45 it is not about Discovery. At 45
it is about not being the only one at the Starbucks in Sausalito
that doesn't have jersey trim. Sheesh.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

psycholist said:

You're 45. Lance isn't going to be calling to have you replace Eki in the
Discovery TdF lineup.

Dude, you don't get it. At 45 it is not about Discovery. At 45
it is about not being the only one at the Starbucks in Sausalito
that doesn't have jersey trim. Sheesh.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

You're 45. Lance isn't going to be calling to have you replace Eki in
the
Discovery TdF lineup.

Dude, you don't get it. At 45 it is not about Discovery. At 45
it is about not being the only one at the Starbucks in Sausalito
that doesn't have jersey trim. Sheesh.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

Dude, you're right. I live about as far from Sausalito as you can get ...
geographically (in the US) and culturally (VERY rural community in the VERY
old South). I've never even seen a real-life Starbucks. What's "jersey
trim?" Is that like a farmer tan?

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob Schwartz said:

psycholist said:

You're 45. Lance isn't going to be calling to have you replace Eki in the
Discovery TdF lineup.

Dude, you don't get it. At 45 it is not about Discovery. At 45
it is about not being the only one at the Starbucks in Sausalito
that doesn't have jersey trim. Sheesh.

That's the honey wearing your jersey?

--
Michael Press

forget the crashing game, do something where you actually feel like you
accomplished something.

http://www.rusa.org/ find a brevet in your area and try one. at least try
the 200k and then you'll be hooked.

just don't push it as far as Dr. Breedlove did.

The issue is definitely lack of sleep. If I have a 'quiet' week (no
call so I sleep 5 - 7 nights in a row), I'm noticeably fresher and
faster. This plays into my training. If I should be doing intervals,
but I've been up all night, I'll just cruise around to spin the legs.
Also, much of the time I'm up, I'm standing, so my legs are dog-tired
(and edematous) in the morning. So, what I'm getting at, my 10 hours
aren't always quality hours. I've tried to be better about rest and
recovery this season, and it's helped a little.
BTW, the 'dumbass', etc. responses were pretty predictable (and the
reason I hesitated to post on this NG). Curious to know what great
cyclists all of you keyboard jocks are and what your contribution to
the real world is. Thanks to all those who gave a thoughtful reply.