Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 1:09 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

This is getting so tiresome.

Agreed 100%.

Quoted message said:

Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan.

EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.

Quoted message said:

It is a kind
of initation ritual to this list, even a recognition that you exist outside
of your own imaginings.

EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.

Quoted message said:

Certainly any skeptics not so blessed should slink
away and think carefully about what they are doing wrong.

Peter Moran

You go first.

Do explain HOW ON EARTH YOU CAN SEE NO FRAUD, NO COVERUPS AND NO
DISHONESTY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

HERE!!!

You've been asked numerous times, you still have not answered.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/809196.asp

Peter Moran wrote:

All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the first caveman said"I
wonder what this berry does?".

Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and potentially lethal gene
defects is a very legitimate and logic alavenue of medical research. So this is
nothing to do with "conspiracies", "coverups" .

It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was applied. It would
be unusual these days for such issues to not be addressed carefully by the
researchers and the ethics committees to which all clinical trials are
submitted thesedays. We cannot know how culpable the doctors are from this
rather emotive news item.

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran

Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger’s home in
Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the experiment was safe.

Documents

• Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other
experiments.
• March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings about the gene
therapy experiment.

(No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson’s team had never told him
that anyone had ever raised questions about safety

(That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member, Peter Moran.)

ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED
And that was just the beginning. Federal investigators, pouring through
Penn’s records, announced at the conference that they had made a series of
startling discoveries, raising questions about whether the doctors had covered
up problems and broken basic test rules.

In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the experiment,
several monkeys given viruses similar to Jesse’s got sick. And two of them
died.

(No coverup there)

The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn’t get visibly ill,
if tests showed that any of them had a significant reaction called “grade
3,” the experiment was supposed to be “halted” immediately.
Records show there were “grade 3” reactions in more than one
patient. The first time, doctors stopped, called the government and got
permission to continue, saying an unusual condition with the patient might have
been the cause.
The second time, they stopped, called and got permission again, citing
another unusual condition.
But when it happened a third time, they didn’t stop, didn’t call.
Then, a fourth time. They didn’t stop or call then either

(No coverups there).

For their own safety, volunteers weren’t supposed to have a blood
ammonia level higher than 50. But people were coming in with higher levels and
without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70.
When Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but
records show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the
experiment, his reading was 114 — more than double the original safety limit.

(That's way cool huh Peter???)

HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES
With so many red flags from the monkey deaths to the reactions in other
volunteers, even to Jesse’s own ammonia levels, Why had Dr. Wilson’s team
allowed the experiment to continue?

(Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)

At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee approved Dr.
Wilson’s arrangement with Genovo.
In fact, the university itself owned a piece of his company and stood to
profit, too.

(Hmmmmmmmmm).

In a statement, the university acknowledged that some information
“should have been shared with the FDA sooner.”

(Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the monkey deaths.
There was no information given to Jesse or his family about toxic results in
prior patients. There was no information that would allow Jesse and his family
to make any kind of informed decision.”

(Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)

CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS

He told congress that other private companies in the race for cures had
also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also gotten adverse reactions.
But instead of sharing the information, government rules allowed them to stamp
those reactions “confidential,” classifying them as trade secrets to
protect their research investments.
So, while the government knew about them, other researchers like Dr.
Wilson and volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were never allowed to see them.

(TRust the government!!!)

“I was outraged,” says Paul. “I had a right to know. Jesse had a right to
know.

(Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).

***In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr. Wilson
filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and deliberately
violated regulations ****

REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!

***Dr. Wilson filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and
deliberately violated regulations ***

(No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)

This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger’s death. At
the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson

****is still on the faculty****

(Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)

****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****

****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***

but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in Congress,
lawmakers are still debating legislation to provide more protection for medical
volunteers.

******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and his family
thought they could trust.*********

Jan

--

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 1:09 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

This is getting so tiresome.

Agreed 100%.

Quoted message said:

Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan.

EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.

Quoted message said:

It is a kind
of initation ritual to this list, even a recognition that you exist

outside

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of your own imaginings.

EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.

Quoted message said:

Certainly any skeptics not so blessed should slink
away and think carefully about what they are doing wrong.

Peter Moran

You go first.

Do explain HOW ON EARTH YOU CAN SEE NO FRAUD, NO COVERUPS AND NO
DISHONESTY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

HERE!!!

$ KaChing! There's five bucks for you, Peter. ;o) Rich

Peter Moran said:

This is getting so tiresome.

Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan. It is a kind
of initation ritual to this list, even a recognition that you exist outside
of your own imaginings. Certainly any skeptics not so blessed should slink
away and think carefully about what they are doing wrong.

Peter Moran

Thank you for that voice of sanity.

(I made it onto the "Liar's List" at one time.)

I don't know why M.T. bothers replying: it is meaningless anyway, there
is nothing to prove.

(Jan) said:

Do explain HOW ON EARTH YOU CAN SEE NO FRAUD, NO COVERUPS AND NO
DISHONESTY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

HERE!!!

You've been asked numerous times, you still have not answered.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/809196.asp

Jesse Gelsinger!! Is that a Ka-ching!! for me?

--
Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight

.....AND getting donations for PB's ("deadkids"😉 site!!!!!

(Oh the shame...)

Peter Bowditch said:

(Jan) said:

Do explain HOW ON EARTH YOU CAN SEE NO FRAUD, NO COVERUPS AND NO
DISHONESTY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

HERE!!!

You've been asked numerous times, you still have not answered.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/809196.asp

Jesse Gelsinger!! Is that a Ka-ching!! for me?

--
Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight

Jan said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 1:09 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

This is getting so tiresome.

Agreed 100%.

Quoted message said:

Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan.

EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.

Including yourself, by DCS and others.

Quoted message said:

This is getting so tiresome.

Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan. It is a kind
of initation ritual to this list, even a recognition that you exist outside
of your own imaginings. Certainly any skeptics not so blessed should slink
away and think carefully about what they are doing wrong.

Peter Moran

Well said, Peter!

In said:

EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.

Well, at least Jan has.

For instance, the above line is a lie.
What? Jan, you say it's not a lie?
Well, Jan, it's your claim. You prove it.

In case this is too complicated, I'll sum up:

Jan claimed, "EVERY single person who has lied has been
proven by their very own words." Jan also claimed,
"I always prove my claims." Either she proves "EVERY single
person who has lied has been proven by their very own words."
or she's a liar.

Go ahead, Jan. Prove "EVERY single person who has lied has
been proven by their very own words." Or admit that you LIED.
(No, I won't hold my breath. Admitting it would require
honesty.)

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end

"karuna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran said:

This is getting so tiresome.

Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan. It is a

kind

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of initation ritual to this list, even a recognition that you exist

outside

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of your own imaginings. Certainly any skeptics not so blessed should

slink

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

away and think carefully about what they are doing wrong.

Peter Moran

Thank you for that voice of sanity.

(I made it onto the "Liar's List" at one time.)

I don't know why M.T. bothers replying: it is meaningless anyway, there
is nothing to prove.

Yep, Jan has proven very well that M.T. is a dishonest liar. I suspect
that it must be some kind of blind bias that prevents you from seeing this
obvious fact. Is this statement that Jan made the excuse for your bias? So
you're a jew and are quite offended by these words aren't you?

[ Yes Jesus was a jew, his own people rejected him.They debunked all his
words and works, and now debunking and lies are second nature to them. That
is how Satan works. ]

Well didn't you reject him? Didn't you say "away with him, away with such
a fellow from the earth" and "We have no King but Ceasar" and "Crucify him,
Crucify him". And aren't you Jews since that time going about blaspheming
him continually(trying to "debunk" him and his words), bringing your own
blood upon your own heads, as the Apostle Paul had said. Remember my dear,
your Messiah will not come onto you until you Jews say,"Blessed is he that
cometh in the name of the Lord". --rb

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

karuna said:

Peter Moran said:

This is getting so tiresome.

Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan. It is
a kind
of initation ritual to this list, even a recognition that you exist
outside
of your own imaginings. Certainly any skeptics not so blessed should
slink
away and think carefully about what they are doing wrong.

Peter Moran

Thank you for that voice of sanity.

(I made it onto the "Liar's List" at one time.)

I don't know why M.T. bothers replying: it is meaningless anyway, there
is nothing to prove.

If i were him, I would be doing it to show her continuing hypocrisy.

So Mark, do you now know the day when your rejected messiah came?--rb

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: karuna [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 2:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Peter Moran said:

This is getting so tiresome.

Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan. It is a

kind

Quoted message said:

of initation ritual to this list, even a recognition that you exist outside
of your own imaginings. Certainly any skeptics not so blessed should

slink

Quoted message said:

away and think carefully about what they are doing wrong.

Peter Moran

Thank you for that voice of sanity

You mean like this??

http://www.msnbc.com/news/809196.asp

Peter Moran wrote:

All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the first caveman said"I
wonder what this berry does?".

Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and potentially lethal gene
defects is a very legitimate and logic alavenue of medical research. So this is
nothing to do with "conspiracies", "coverups" .

It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was applied. It would
be unusual these days for such issues to not be addressed carefully by the
researchers and the ethics committees to which all clinical trials are
submitted thesedays. We cannot know how culpable the doctors are from this
rather emotive news item.

Peter Moran
==============================

Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger’s home in
Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the experiment was safe.

Documents

• Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other
experiments.
• March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings about the gene
therapy experiment.

(No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson’s team had never told him
that anyone had ever raised questions about safety

(That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member, Peter Moran.)

ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED
And that was just the beginning. Federal investigators, pouring through
Penn’s records, announced at the conference that they had made a series of
startling discoveries, raising questions about whether the doctors had covered
up problems and broken basic test rules.

In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the experiment,
several monkeys given viruses similar to Jesse’s got sick. And two of them
died.

(No coverup there)

The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn’t get visibly ill,
if tests showed that any of them had a significant reaction called “grade
3,” the experiment was supposed to be “halted” immediately.
Records show there were “grade 3” reactions in more than one
patient. The first time, doctors stopped, called the government and got
permission to continue, saying an unusual condition with the patient might have
been the cause.
The second time, they stopped, called and got permission again, citing
another unusual condition.
But when it happened a third time, they didn’t stop, didn’t call.
Then, a fourth time. They didn’t stop or call then either

(No coverups there).

For their own safety, volunteers weren’t supposed to have a blood
ammonia level higher than 50. But people were coming in with higher levels and
without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70.
When Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but
records show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the
experiment, his reading was 114 — more than double the original safety limit.

(That's way cool huh Peter???)

HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES
With so many red flags from the monkey deaths to the reactions in other
volunteers, even to Jesse’s own ammonia levels, Why had Dr. Wilson’s team
allowed the experiment to continue?

(Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)

At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee approved Dr.
Wilson’s arrangement with Genovo.
In fact, the university itself owned a piece of his company and stood to
profit, too.

(Hmmmmmmmmm).

In a statement, the university acknowledged that some information
“should have been shared with the FDA sooner.”

(Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the monkey deaths.
There was no information given to Jesse or his family about toxic results in
prior patients. There was no information that would allow Jesse and his family
to make any kind of informed decision.”

(Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)

CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS

He told congress that other private companies in the race for cures had
also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also gotten adverse reactions.
But instead of sharing the information, government rules allowed them to stamp
those reactions “confidential,” classifying them as trade secrets to
protect their research investments.
So, while the government knew about them, other researchers like Dr.
Wilson and volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were never allowed to see them.

(TRust the government!!!)

“I was outraged,” says Paul. “I had a right to know. Jesse had a right to
know.

(Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).

In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr. Wilson
filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and deliberately
violated regulations

REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!

Dr. Wilson filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and
deliberately violated regulations

(No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)

This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger’s death. At
the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson

****is still on the faculty****

(Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)

****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****

****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***

but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in Congress,
lawmakers are still debating legislation to provide more protection for medical
volunteers.

******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and his family
thought they could trust.*********

Quoted message said:

(I made it onto the "Liar's List" at one time.)

Yes, INDEED you did.

As with every claim, here is the proof.

From: Karuna ([email hidden])Subject: Re: MHA and toxic pollution
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 2002-08-10 15:52:02 PST

**"She" is not female. That's all I know. I won't allow that misconception to
continue unchallenged: It is causing too much harm.**

From: Karuna ([email hidden])
Subject: Re: Public Citizen's Health Research Group
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2002-08-29 14:01:01 PST

You have misrepresented women as speaking in a way that is obscene, profane and
degrading. And I don't mean merely the post you directed at me.

Why some male would choose to do this to women, to present females as you have
done,

I cannot comprehend.It is false.

It is wrong. It is harmful.

You are truly one of the lower forms of male life.As long as you continue to
post as this persona, as the "female" who has posted as you have done, and so
long as I am able, so long will I continue to call you on it.

I do know that the person is male, and is using the "young alt female"guise in
a way that degrades women.

FACT is:

Debbee is NOT male.

I have INDEED spoke with *HER* on the phone.

Quoted message said:

I don't know why M.T. bothers replying: it is meaningless anyway, there
is nothing to prove.

WRONG.

Mark Thorson is a proven liar.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: "rb" [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 12:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Mark Probert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

karuna said:

Peter Moran wrote:

> This is getting so tiresome.
>
> Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan. It is
> a kind
> of initation ritual to this list, even a recognition that you exist
> outside
> of your own imaginings. Certainly any skeptics not so blessed should
> slink
> away and think carefully about what they are doing wrong.
>
> Peter Moran

Thank you for that voice of sanity.

(I made it onto the "Liar's List" at one time.)

I don't know why M.T. bothers replying: it is meaningless anyway, there
is nothing to prove.

If i were him, I would be doing it to show her continuing hypocrisy.

So Mark, do you now know the day when your rejected messiah came?--rb

Poor Mark, another transference of his guilt.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 3:35 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

(Jan) said:

Do explain HOW ON EARTH YOU CAN SEE NO FRAUD, NO COVERUPS AND NO
DISHONESTY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

HERE!!!

You've been asked numerous times, you still have not answered.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/809196.asp

Jesse Gelsinger!! Is that a Ka-ching!! for me?

I certainly hope Jesse's parents never hear those kind of statements.

I guess if the child had been killed by something alternative, you wouldn't
free so free to make fun????

Ka-ching is another excuse for overlooking lies????

Do tell us Peter do you see an fraud, any lies, any cover-ups, any dishonesty??

http://www.msnbc.com/news/809196.asp

Peter Moran wrote:

All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the first caveman said"I
wonder what this berry does?".

Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and potentially lethal gene
defects is a very legitimate and logic alavenue of medical research. So this is
nothing to do with "conspiracies", "coverups" .

It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was applied. It would
be unusual these days for such issues to not be addressed carefully by the
researchers and the ethics committees to which all clinical trials are
submitted thesedays. We cannot know how culpable the doctors are from this
rather emotive news item.

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran

Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger’s home in
Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the experiment was safe.

Documents

• Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other
experiments.
• March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings about the gene
therapy experiment.

(No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson’s team had never told him
that anyone had ever raised questions about safety

(That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member, Peter Moran.)

ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED
And that was just the beginning. Federal investigators, pouring through
Penn’s records, announced at the conference that they had made a series of
startling discoveries, raising questions about whether the doctors had covered
up problems and broken basic test rules.

In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the experiment,
several monkeys given viruses similar to Jesse’s got sick. And two of them
died.

(No coverup there)

The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn’t get visibly ill,
if tests showed that any of them had a significant reaction called “grade
3,” the experiment was supposed to be “halted” immediately.
Records show there were “grade 3” reactions in more than one
patient. The first time, doctors stopped, called the government and got
permission to continue, saying an unusual condition with the patient might have
been the cause.
The second time, they stopped, called and got permission again, citing
another unusual condition.
But when it happened a third time, they didn’t stop, didn’t call.
Then, a fourth time. They didn’t stop or call then either

(No coverups there).

For their own safety, volunteers weren’t supposed to have a blood
ammonia level higher than 50. But people were coming in with higher levels and
without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70.
When Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but
records show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the
experiment, his reading was 114 — more than double the original safety limit.

(That's way cool huh Peter???)

HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES
With so many red flags from the monkey deaths to the reactions in other
volunteers, even to Jesse’s own ammonia levels, Why had Dr. Wilson’s team
allowed the experiment to continue?

(Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)

At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee approved Dr.
Wilson’s arrangement with Genovo.
In fact, the university itself owned a piece of his company and stood to
profit, too.

(Hmmmmmmmmm).

In a statement, the university acknowledged that some information
“should have been shared with the FDA sooner.”

(Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the monkey deaths.
There was no information given to Jesse or his family about toxic results in
prior patients. There was no information that would allow Jesse and his family
to make any kind of informed decision.”

(Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)

CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS

He told congress that other private companies in the race for cures had
also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also gotten adverse reactions.
But instead of sharing the information, government rules allowed them to stamp
those reactions “confidential,” classifying them as trade secrets to
protect their research investments.
So, while the government knew about them, other researchers like Dr.
Wilson and volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were never allowed to see them.

(TRust the government!!!)

“I was outraged,” says Paul. “I had a right to know. Jesse had a right to
know.

(Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).

***In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr. Wilson
filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and deliberately
violated regulations ****

REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!

***Dr. Wilson filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and
deliberately violated regulations ***

(No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)

This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger’s death. At
the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson

****is still on the faculty****

(Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)

****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****

****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***

but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in Congress,
lawmakers are still debating legislation to provide more protection for medical
volunteers.

******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and his family
thought they could trust.*********

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: "D. C. Sessions" [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 9:23 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In said:

EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.

Well, at least Jan has.

For instance, the above line is a lie.
What? Jan, you say it's not a lie?
Well, Jan, it's your claim. You prove it.

In case this is too complicated, I'll sum up:

Jan claimed, "EVERY single person who has lied has been
proven by their very own words." Jan also claimed,
"I always prove my claims." Either she proves "EVERY single
person who has lied has been proven by their very own words."
or she's a liar.

Go ahead, Jan. Prove "EVERY single person who has lied has
been proven by their very own words." Or admit that you LIED.
(No, I won't hold my breath. Admitting it would require
honesty.)

Already been done!!!!!

Look it up!

Jan

--

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 3:35 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

(Jan) said:

Do explain HOW ON EARTH YOU CAN SEE NO FRAUD, NO COVERUPS AND NO
DISHONESTY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

HERE!!!

You've been asked numerous times, you still have not answered.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/809196.asp

Jesse Gelsinger!! Is that a Ka-ching!! for me?

I certainly hope Jesse's parents never hear those kind of statements.

I guess if the child had been killed by something alternative, you

wouldn't

Quoted message said:

free so free to make fun????

Ka-ching is another excuse for overlooking lies????

snip . . . $ KaChing . . . Another Six! ($5 to Peter; $1 to Quackwatch)

;o) Rich

rb (student of JD) said:

"karuna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran said:

This is getting so tiresome.

Hands up those who have NOT ever been accused of LYING by Jan. It is a

kind

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of initation ritual to this list, even a recognition that you exist

outside

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of your own imaginings. Certainly any skeptics not so blessed should

slink

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

away and think carefully about what they are doing wrong.

Peter Moran

Thank you for that voice of sanity.

(I made it onto the "Liar's List" at one time.)

I don't know why M.T. bothers replying: it is meaningless anyway, there
is nothing to prove.

Yep, Jan has proven very well that M.T. is a dishonest liar.

Well, actually, she has not done so. However, it is utterly pointless to
try to show you, student of Drew.

I suspect

Quoted message said:

that it must be some kind of blind bias that prevents you from seeing this
obvious fact. Is this statement that Jan made the excuse for your bias? So
you're a jew and are quite offended by these words aren't you?

Do you believe that Karuna is Jewish?

Quoted message said:

[ Yes Jesus was a jew, his own people rejected him.They debunked all his
words and works, and now debunking and lies are second nature to them. That
is how Satan works. ]

I see. This is one of the things she mentioned that made me re-think my
original opinion that she was not anti-semetic.

Quoted message said:

Well didn't you reject him? Didn't you say "away with him, away with such
a fellow from the earth" and "We have no King but Ceasar" and "Crucify him,
Crucify him". And aren't you Jews since that time going about blaspheming
him continually(trying to "debunk" him and his words), bringing your own
blood upon your own heads, as the Apostle Paul had said. Remember my dear,
your Messiah will not come onto you until you Jews say,"Blessed is he that
cometh in the name of the Lord". --rb

Ah...now rb reitereates some of the teachings that allowed the Nazis to
convince the people to engage in organized slaughter.

In said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: "D. C. Sessions" [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 9:23 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In said:

EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.

Well, at least Jan has.

For instance, the above line is a lie.
What? Jan, you say it's not a lie?
Well, Jan, it's your claim. You prove it.

In case this is too complicated, I'll sum up:

Jan claimed, "EVERY single person who has lied has been
proven by their very own words." Jan also claimed,
"I always prove my claims." Either she proves "EVERY single
person who has lied has been proven by their very own words."
or she's a liar.

Go ahead, Jan. Prove "EVERY single person who has lied has
been proven by their very own words." Or admit that you LIED.
(No, I won't hold my breath. Admitting it would require
honesty.)

Already been done!!!!!

No, it hasn't. This is just another lie.

You say it has. Prove it. Of course, you
can't so you'll post some other transparent
attempt to squirm out of admitting to your
own lies -- despite the fact that everyone
else sees right through both the denials
and the evasions.

Quoted message said:

Look it up!

I did. The above line is a lie.

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: "D. C. Sessions" [email hidden]
Date: 7/4/2003 12:40 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Repeating the Repeated Repeatedly
From: "D. C. Sessions" [email hidden]
Date: 7/3/2003 9:23 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In <[email hidden]>, Jan wrote:

> EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.

Well, at least Jan has.

For instance, the above line is a lie.
What? Jan, you say it's not a lie?
Well, Jan, it's your claim. You prove it.

In case this is too complicated, I'll sum up:

Jan claimed, "EVERY single person who has lied has been
proven by their very own words." Jan also claimed,
"I always prove my claims." Either she proves "EVERY single
person who has lied has been proven by their very own words."
or she's a liar.

Go ahead, Jan. Prove "EVERY single person who has lied has
been proven by their very own words." Or admit that you LIED.
(No, I won't hold my breath. Admitting it would require
honesty.)

Already been done!!!!!

No, it hasn't.

Yes it has.

In said:

Quoted message said:

From: "D. C. Sessions" [email hidden]
Date: 7/4/2003 12:40 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In <[email hidden]>, Jan wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>From: "D. C. Sessions" [email hidden]
>Date: 7/3/2003 9:23 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email hidden]>
>
>In <[email hidden]>, Jan wrote:
>
>> EVERY single person who has lied has been proven by their very own words.
>
>Well, at least Jan has.
>
>For instance, the above line is a lie.
>What? Jan, you say it's not a lie?
>Well, Jan, it's your claim. You prove it.
>
>In case this is too complicated, I'll sum up:
>
>Jan claimed, "EVERY single person who has lied has been
>proven by their very own words." Jan also claimed,
>"I always prove my claims." Either she proves "EVERY single
>person who has lied has been proven by their very own words."
>or she's a liar.
>
>Go ahead, Jan. Prove "EVERY single person who has lied has
>been proven by their very own words." Or admit that you LIED.
>(No, I won't hold my breath. Admitting it would require
>honesty.)

Already been done!!!!!

No, it hasn't.

Yes it has.

So prove it. You made your boast:

In <[email hidden]>, Jan boasted:
# I always prove my claims.

Another LIE, obviously.

Anyone with a shred of honesty would simply admit to having
been wrong and that some of those claims can't be proven.
Not Jan.

No backbone, no integrity. No honesty. No wonder she
accuses everyone else of lying: she can't imagine honesty
or integrity.

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end