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Massive Multinational Assault on Alternative Medicines

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
14 July 2003
Last activity
18 July 2003
Original author
Carole
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  1. "Carole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Recently found this article by Joe Vialls, investigative reporter.

    Personally, I found the Pan Pharmaceutical recall totally unacceptable
    for a variety of reasons. Knowing the lengths the pharmaceutical
    companies will go to in order to get more market share, I can't see
    why they aren't behind it. You'd have to be pretty naive to think
    otherwise really.

    When they start babbling on about "public safety" and efficacy of this
    and that you just know its some sort of spin.
    All these years people
    have been self medicating with nutritional products and all of a
    sudden they're a danger?

    Well, this is a prime example of "spin" if ever I saw it. Also how some
    can shoot off their mouths about subjects they have obviously not researched
    and have the product propagated by the even more ignorant.

    Actually at least two persons did become quite ill through taking a product
    of Pan that had seven times the stated amount of a seasickness drug
    (hyoscine). Other tablets contained none. Numerous other bad
    manufacturing practice were found. The same company had previously been
    suspended from trading for breaches of proper manufacturing practices.

    Peter Moran

  2. (Carole) said:

    Yes, a couple of people became ill through taking Travacalm travel
    sickness tablets, but the thing that didn't get mentioned in the press
    reports is that Travacalm is an OVER-THE-COUNTER PHARMACY-ONLY DRUG
    and not an complementary or alternative remedy.

    The active ingredient in Travacalm is a very herbal extract of
    henbane. How alternative do you want it to be?

    --
    Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight

  3. "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    Recently found this article by Joe Vialls, investigative reporter.

    Personally, I found the Pan Pharmaceutical recall totally unacceptable
    for a variety of reasons. Knowing the lengths the pharmaceutical
    companies will go to in order to get more market share, I can't see
    why they aren't behind it. You'd have to be pretty naive to think
    otherwise really.

    Pan Pharmaceuticals makes plenty of prescription drugs too, and they
    also got pulled off the market. How clever a conspiracy can you get?

    Hey stupid, read the article again, the prescription drugs weren't
    pulled.--rb

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    When they start babbling on about "public safety" and efficacy of this
    and that you just know its some sort of spin. All these years people
    have been self medicating with nutritional products and all of a
    sudden they're a danger? But pharmaceutical drugs, 4th leading cause
    of death, are safe? The TGA would have to be in the same league as the
    FDA, infiltrated long ago and merely drug company branch offices.

    Well, actually, they *aren't* the 4th leading cause of death, they're
    much further down the list than that, but morons like you will keep
    making that lame claim forever.

    Quoted message said:


    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  4. rb said:
    Quoted message said:

    Pharmaceutical alternative health products, but without the recall of
    a single Pan Pharmaceutical "prescription medicine".

    That would be what is called " a lie". A single prescription
    pharmaceutical manufactured by Pan was recalled. It was just about the
    only prescription drug made by Pan, and they had only made one batch
    of <300 packages because the usual packager had had some problem.

    --
    Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight

  5. "rb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    This evil conspiracy is like something out of "The Invasion of The
    Bodysnatchers"! Just incredible. Almost unbelievable to think that people
    could be so truly greedy AND EVIL. I think many of the heads of these
    multinational corporations should be executed if they had their just
    desserts. I'd like to shoot them.--rb


    <snip>

    OK rb, the game is up.
    You're not a real kook, are you!
    You're just a parody.

    (My bet is that you are Joel pretending to be a kook. You started
    posting the same time he stopped, so that's proof enough..🙂)

    --

    Doug

    dougadamatglobaldotnetdotau

  6. Carole said:

    "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, this is a prime example of "spin" if ever I saw it. Also how some
    can shoot off their mouths about subjects they have obviously not researched
    and have the product propagated by the even more ignorant.

    Who is shooting off their mouth - Joe Vialls you mean?

    You and joe.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Actually at least two persons did become quite ill through taking a product
    of Pan that had seven times the stated amount of a seasickness drug
    (hyoscine). Other tablets contained none. Numerous other bad
    manufacturing practice were found. The same company had previously been
    suspended from trading for breaches of proper manufacturing practices.

    Yes, a couple of people became ill through taking Travacalm travel
    sickness tablets, but the thing that didn't get mentioned in the press
    reports is that Travacalm is an OVER-THE-COUNTER PHARMACY-ONLY DRUG
    and not an complementary or alternative remedy. Pan produced 20% of
    its output as pharmaceutical drugs and 80% alternative remedies.

    Since it is an over the counter, pharmacy only preparation, the
    regualtions regarding its manufacture are more strict. Imagine what they
    would try to get away with in their manufacture of herbals, were there
    are little, if any, regualtions.

    Also note that it was a continuing pattern of behavior.

    Quoted message said:

    AND I read somewhere, and noted myself, that the story went
    international but not only that but there were international articles
    talking about the possible dangerous side effects of complementary
    medicines.

    Of course it went international. The stock is traded internationally,
    and the products are exported.

    So, what was your point?

  7. rb wrote:

    Use both hands to hold onto reality.

    Quoted message said:

    This evil conspiracy is like something out of "The Invasion of The
    Bodysnatchers"! Just incredible. Almost unbelievable to think that people
    could be so truly greedy AND EVIL. I think many of the heads of these
    multinational corporations should be executed if they had their just
    desserts. I'd like to shoot them.--rb

  8. Peter Bowditch said:
    rb said:
    Quoted message said:

    Copyright Joe Vialls, 2 May 2003

    For those of you who think that Carole is the epitome of conspiracy
    believers, I give you Joe Vialls.

    http://geocities.com/vialls/

    Read, and screech with laughter. If Joe says it, it isn't so.

    And Joe doesn't like Jews. I can see why r(ectal) b(alloon) likes
    Joe's rants.

    rubber brain will not get it.

  9. "Doug" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "rb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    This evil conspiracy is like something out of "The Invasion of The
    Bodysnatchers"! Just incredible. Almost unbelievable to think that


    people

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    could be so truly greedy AND EVIL. I think many of the heads of these
    multinational corporations should be executed if they had their just
    desserts. I'd like to shoot them.--rb


    <snip>

    OK rb, the game is up.
    You're not a real kook, are you!
    You're just a parody.

    (My bet is that you are Joel pretending to be a kook. You started
    posting the same time he stopped, so that's proof enough..🙂)


    Do you mind telling me your religion?--rb

    Quoted message said:

    --

    Doug

    dougadamatglobaldotnetdotau

  10. "Mark Probert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    rb wrote:

    Use both hands to hold onto reality.

    You can mock if you like but this is an holocaust against not only Jews
    but everybody. Those culpable for these high crimes against humanity should
    indeed be executed and i think i'd enjoy doing it, much the same way that
    you Jews enjoy catching and dispatching Nazi war criminals.--rb

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    This evil conspiracy is like something out of "The Invasion of The
    Bodysnatchers"! Just incredible. Almost unbelievable to think that


    people

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    could be so truly greedy AND EVIL. I think many of the heads of these
    multinational corporations should be executed if they had their just
    desserts. I'd like to shoot them.--rb


  11. In article said:


    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    Recently found this article by Joe Vialls, investigative reporter.

    Personally, I found the Pan Pharmaceutical recall totally unacceptable
    for a variety of reasons. Knowing the lengths the pharmaceutical
    companies will go to in order to get more market share, I can't see
    why they aren't behind it. You'd have to be pretty naive to think
    otherwise really.

    Pan Pharmaceuticals makes plenty of prescription drugs too, and they
    also got pulled off the market. How clever a conspiracy can you get?

    Hey stupid, read the article again, the prescription drugs weren't
    pulled.--rb

    My mistake, that one. And lookie here -- I admitted it.

    If only you had the brainpower to discover you're wrong about
    chelation for cardiovascular disease, and the integrity to
    admit it. <I know, I'm just a dreamer...>

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  12. In article said:


    "Mark Probert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    rb wrote:

    Use both hands to hold onto reality.

    You can mock if you like but this is an holocaust against not only Jews
    but everybody. Those culpable for these high crimes against humanity should
    indeed be executed and i think i'd enjoy doing it, much the same way that
    you Jews enjoy catching and dispatching Nazi war criminals.--rb

    Shutting down a company with bad manufacturing practices, one that so
    badly bungles compounding pills that some have seven times the stated
    dosage and some have none, is not a crime against humanity. It's a
    service to humanity.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  13. Quoted message said:

    From: [email hidden] (Carole)
    Date: 7/14/2003 1:53 AM Central Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    A slight bit different than the way Peter Bowditch described it.

    Quoted message said:

    Massive Multinational Assault on Alternative Medicines

    That says it all. Sad that money and power overrides suffering people. These
    kind of things will be dealt with come judgment day.

    Jan

    Quoted message said:

    Recently found this article by Joe Vialls, investigative reporter.

    Personally, I found the Pan Pharmaceutical recall totally unacceptable
    for a variety of reasons. Knowing the lengths the pharmaceutical
    companies will go to in order to get more market share, I can't see
    why they aren't behind it. You'd have to be pretty naive to think
    otherwise really.

    When they start babbling on about "public safety" and efficacy of this
    and that you just know its some sort of spin. All these years people
    have been self medicating with nutritional products and all of a
    sudden they're a danger? But pharmaceutical drugs, 4th leading cause
    of death, are safe? The TGA would have to be in the same league as the
    FDA, infiltrated long ago and merely drug company branch offices.

    Carole
    http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/pan.htm
    _____________________________________________

    Massive Multinational Assault on Alternative Medicines

    Australians deliberately denied access to more than one thousand
    products ranging from vitamin pills to multi-mineral supplements
    Copyright Joe Vialls, 2 May 2003

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/subliminalsuggestion/vitamins.html

    In less than seven days! " The ever-compliant media immediately
    started circulating rumors about 'that dangerous Travacalm', and
    hinted at mixing machines not being cleaned properly between blending
    batches of different products. One former employee was produced on
    television, to state that he was only allowed one hour to clean his
    mixing machine between batches instead of three hours, and that was
    that. The media fix was in, despite a total lack of evidence."

    Under cover of the fake "SARS Crisis" currently saturating the western
    media, Australia's Therapeutic Goods Administration has suddenly moved
    to outlaw and remove from store shelves about 80% of all vitamin and
    other related alternative products. Although less than a week ago
    customers were happily buying everything from vitamin A to G, and
    enthusiastically chewing every conceivable mineral and trace element,
    these same customers today face empty shelves in more than 5,000
    health food stores across the nation.

    American and European readers who may be wondering "What has this
    Australian stuff got to do with me?" are urged to read on a little
    further. Australia is well known as a gullible and thus attractive
    proving ground for multinational scams, meaning that what happens in
    Oz this week, might well serve as a foretaste of what is yet to come
    in America and Europe next week, or next month, or even next year.

    The extraordinary situation facing Australians today, started at the
    beginning of this week, when the Therapeutic Goods Administration
    [TGA] suddenly decided to cancel the manufacturing license of Pan
    Pharmaceuticals, a large Australian company which not only
    manufactures its own line of medicines, but also provides a
    manufacturing service for 80% of all alternative goods providers
    across Australia. Basically then, by shutting down Pan Pharmaceuticals
    without just cause, the TGA ensured that alternative health goods
    purveyors and customers would be critically disadvantaged across the
    entire nation.
    To suggest [or even think] that the TGA action was deliberately
    designed to shut down natural health products in favor of the huge
    pharmaceutical multinationals and their coal-tar synthetic drugs, at
    first seems ill advised, perhaps even absurd. But unfortunately for
    the TGA, we can and will prove in a proper step-by-step investigation,
    that the shutdown process was premeditated and deliberate.

    Members of the Therapeutic Goods Administration are Australia's
    medical goods "thought police", endowed by government with incredible
    powers. There are documented examples of these people shutting down
    retail health food businesses for daring to suggest that cheap apricot
    kernels might [censored] [not "cure"] cancer, while at the same time other
    members of the TGA were busy endorsing the massive use of
    highly-addictive and extremely profitable amphetamines on Australian
    children, with alleged but unproven "learning disorders".
    Every scam needs a convincing trigger to start the desired chain of
    events. In the case of Pan Pharmaceuticals the trigger was an in-house
    medicine called "Travacalm", designed as its name suggests to combat
    motion sickness in its various manifestations. The TGA allegedly
    received complaints in late 2002 about this medicine, including claims
    of minor "hallucinations". In an apparent response to these
    uncorroborated claims, on 21 January 2003 Travacalm Original tablets
    AUST R 78192 were recalled, with the official reason given as "The
    product is being recalled following a number of reports of excess side
    effects related to the active ingredient."
    Fine so far, and the TGA certainly seemed to be acting responsibly,
    but it was not. You see, there are actually three versions of
    Travacalm, but only the "Original" version was recalled. Travacalm
    Original is unique in its active ingredient dimenhydrinate, which is
    not contained in Travacalm H.O [hyoscine hydrobromide], or in
    Travacalm Natural, which contains only zingiber officinale [natural
    ginger].

    So by banning Travacalm Original but not the other two Travacalm
    products, the TGA revealed to us all that it was really only banning
    the single ingredient dimenhydrinate, the active antihistamine not
    present in either the H.O. or Natural versions of Travacalm.

    There is nothing unique or secret about the side effects of
    dimenhydrinate, which have been known for many years. Users can be
    subject to headache, blurred vision, palpitations, loss of
    coordination, dry mouth, low blood pressure causing dizziness and
    weakness, and ringing in the ears. What are less widely known, are the
    disturbing hallucinogenic side effects of dimenhydrinate experienced
    by many experimental users with access to the Internet.

    A good description is posted at
    http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/legalize/drugs/dimenhydrinate/ "It takes
    about an hour for the full effects of this drug to be reached, maybe
    even more. You know when it hits you though. The most screwed up thing
    is a complete loss of balance. Walking around without falling on your
    ass is quite the challenge. Small hallucinations are possible (your
    pen sprouts legs and begins a journey across your desk). And auditory
    hallucinations (hearing s&😉 come into the picture at higher
    doses. "Short-term memory is shot to f&. As soon as you finish a
    thought, you forget what it was you were thinking about. To the casual
    observer, you would look quite weird. Slack-jawed, red faced, dilated
    pupils, possibly a hunched posture, maybe even drooling. The feeling
    is like floating on a cloud during a hurricane (or something to that
    effect)."Obviously then, all medications including dimenhydrinate are
    potentially very dangerous and capable of producing hallucinations,
    which leads us to question why it was that on 21 January 2003, the
    Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration recalled only Pan
    Pharmaceutical's Travacalm Original, while leaving other medicines
    with higher levels of dimenhydrinate on the open market.

    These other dimenhydrinate medicines include [but are not limited to]
    Calm X, Dimetabs, Dinate, Dommanate, Dramamine, Dramanate, Dramocen,
    Dramoject, Dymenate, Hydrate, Marmine, Nico-Vert, Tega-Vert, Triptone,
    and Vertab. All without exception should also have been ordered off
    the shelves, but were not.
    Predictably perhaps, all of the other dimenhydrinate medicines are
    manufactured by pharmaceutical multinationals "friendly" to members of
    the Therapeutic Goods Administration, and unconfirmed rumors still
    persist about certain senior TGA bureaucrats being discreetly provided
    with free "medical seminars" in Fiji or Bali, complete with all
    essential extras including unlimited alcohol and prostitutes.

    Regardless of the fine detail of exactly how this situation was
    engineered, by February 2003 Australian Pan Pharmaceuticals had been
    artificially "dirtied", and was ripe for the picking. The scene had
    been set for the biggest recall of natural health products in
    Australia - perhaps in the world. The scam itself started on Monday 28
    April, and a mere four days later on Thursday 1 May, the TGA had
    identified and ordered 1,363 complete product lines to be stripped
    from store shelves across Australia. Does anyone out there really
    believe that a bunch of lazy bureaucrats managed all that in four
    days, without considerable forward planning?

    So by Thursday 1 May, one thousand three hundred and sixty-three
    complete product lines had been officially recalled, meaning hundreds
    of millions of alternative health pills and capsules had to be
    stripped from the shelves, leaving Australian consumers understandably
    anxious. To claim that this TGA action "undermined public confidence
    in alternative health", would be seriously understating the case.

    Naturally the Therapeutic Goods Administration provided no details of
    why this was happening, though the ever-compliant media immediately
    started circulating rumors about "that dangerous Travacalm", and
    hinted at mixing machines not being cleaned properly between blending
    batches of different products. One former employee was produced on
    television, to state that he was only allowed one hour to clean his
    mixing machine between batches instead of three hours, and that was
    that. The media fix was in, despite a total lack of evidence.

    Hundreds of thousands of Australians were suddenly deprived of the
    ability to buy their chosen alternative health products, and "doubt"
    had also been deliberately cast over the safety of the alternative
    health products already in their homes. Many Australians started to
    grumble that the alternative health manufacturers were no better than
    the hated drug companies: all of them obviously out to make a quick
    buck without the slightest regard for public safety. Lines of
    demarcation became blurred, and customers started to mill around like
    lost sheep.

    Hard evidence to hand indicates that the undermining of public
    confidence, and the resulting confusion, were the prime object of the
    exercise, because there is no proof that any of these 1,363 product
    lines pose the slightest risk to human health. Ironically perhaps, in
    its headlong rush to shepherd Australians back towards out-of-fashion
    medical doctors and their wide range of synthetic coal-tar based
    drugs, the Therapeutic Goods Administration reinforced the reality of
    perfect safety with official statements.

    Putting its foot firmly in its mouth, the TGA publicly announced three
    times in less than a week, "there are no problems with prescription
    drugs obtained from your doctor", and "prescription drugs are not
    affected". This was unquestionably reassuring news for potential
    patients being herded back towards the medical profession, and even
    greater news for the pharmaceutical multinationals, who up to this
    point in history have been losing A$2,000 million per year in
    Australia alone to alternative health products.

    Unfortunately there was a fatal flaw in these glib and very convenient
    TGA statements. Though Pan Pharmaceuticals is best known for its own
    alternative health products, and as a contract manufacturer for 80% of
    all other alternative health products across Australia, it is also a
    significant producer of a wide range of in-house and contract
    "prescription drugs". Those prescription drugs manufactured by Pan are
    still in your doctor's surgery, and they are still on the shelves at
    the pharmacy, despite the startling fact that all were produced in the
    same allegedly "unclean" mixing machines as the 1,363 banned
    alternative health products.

    In summary, the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration recalled a
    Pan dimenhydrinate product in January 2003 but failed to recall its
    fifteen multinational equivalents at the same time. The TGA also
    failed to issue a public warning about the possible hallucinogenic
    side effects of dimenhydrinate. In late April the Therapeutic Goods
    Administration started a whispering campaign against Pan
    Pharmaceuticals, with the intent of severely undermining public
    confidence in alternative health products. This latter claim has now
    been proved by the selective TGA recall of all 1,363 Pan
    Pharmaceutical alternative health products, but without the recall of
    a single Pan Pharmaceutical "prescription medicine".

    It is difficult to forecast the long-term outcome of this deliberate
    campaign, because no one yet knows what the multinational
    pharmaceutical corporations will instruct the Australian TGA to do
    next. Certainly the massed media campaign has already severely
    undermined Australian public confidence in alternative health
    products, and for a few weeks or months it will be very difficult [in
    some cases impossible], to even purchase fresh stocks of vitamins,
    minerals and so on. In turn, this forced lack of trade will send
    thousands of small alternative health retails outlets into bankruptcy.
    Using these techniques, the multinational pharmaceuticals seek to
    "break the alternative consumer habit" if possible, and to an extent
    they will be successful. The "hard core" alternative crowd will not
    respond of course, and if necessary will import their own products,
    but it is not the "hard core" that the multinationals seek to
    undermine.

    It is "middle" Australia [and America and Europe] that the
    multinationals are targeting. Millions of intelligent folk who used to
    go to medical doctors all the time, until they started to pick up the
    warning signs of the horrific side-effects of prescription medicines.
    These are the people who must be weaned off healthy products, and
    brought back under direct medical control.

    The fake Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration scam will
    certainly help to do this, and if only 50% effective, should still
    return roughly one billion dollars per annum to multinational
    pharmaceutical investors. Not a bad return for the price of a few
    hookers in Fiji and Bali.

  14. (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: [email hidden] (Carole)
    Date: 7/14/2003 1:53 AM Central Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    A slight bit different than the way Peter Bowditch described it.

    Quoted message said:

    Massive Multinational Assault on Alternative Medicines

    That says it all. Sad that money and power overrides suffering people. These
    kind of things will be dealt with come judgment day.

    Jan

    Yes, Jan, the way conspiracy believer and liar Joe Vialls describes it
    is very different to the way I describe it. I would have it no other
    way. If I found him agreeing with me I would seek psychiatric help.

    I am not going to waste my time rebutting Vialls' lies line by line.
    If you believe that it is proper manufacturing practice to sweep the
    floor and package the sweepings, fail to clean machinery between
    manufacture of batches of different products, fabricate laboratory
    test results, and delete computer records when an audit is announced
    then you must believe that dishonesty in business is acceptable.

    Of course, as Pan was packaging snake oil for its customers you will
    no doubt apply the same business ethics standards to them as you have
    done in the past to, eg, dentist like Phillips who don't keep adequate
    records or insurance cover, dentists like Huggins who find amalgam in
    teeth with no fillings, and doctors like Kadile who administer the
    wrong chemical treatment to patients.

    You are the person who demands that anything to do with medicine must
    be perfect at all times, except when your religious commitment to
    quackery allows exceptions. Pan was just being held to the same
    standards as any other manufacturer of drugs. Only someone who accepts
    lower standards for "alternative" products would want it to be
    otherwise.

    And by the way - if the intention was to shut down the Australian
    alternative medicine and supplement industry, why is Blackmore's still
    trading? I'll answer that - it is because they manufacture their snake
    oil pills using appropriate methods and quality standards.

    --
    Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight

  15. rb said:

    "Doug" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "rb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    This evil conspiracy is like something out of "The Invasion of The
    Bodysnatchers"! Just incredible. Almost unbelievable to think that

    people

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    could be so truly greedy AND EVIL. I think many of the heads of these
    multinational corporations should be executed if they had their just
    desserts. I'd like to shoot them.--rb

    <snip>

    OK rb, the game is up.
    You're not a real kook, are you!
    You're just a parody.

    (My bet is that you are Joel pretending to be a kook. You started
    posting the same time he stopped, so that's proof enough..🙂)

    Do you mind telling me your religion?--rb

    "None of your business" seems like a good reply.

    Why do you want to know? Planning a Pogrom?

  16. rb said:

    "Mark Probert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    rb wrote:

    Use both hands to hold onto reality.

    You can mock if you like but this is an holocaust against not only Jews
    but everybody.

    It is not a Holocaust, and your use to the term to inflame is noted and
    otherwise ignored.

    It is ensuring that people get what they pay for. Are you in favor of
    people who buy supplements and over-the-counter preparation getting
    inferiorily manufactured products? I sure am not. I insist that they use
    only the highest manufacturing standards and competent quality control.

    Those culpable for these high crimes against humanity should

    Quoted message said:

    indeed be executed and i think i'd enjoy doing it, much the same way that
    you Jews enjoy catching and dispatching Nazi war criminals.--rb

    Only *one* Nazi war criminal has been 'dispatched' since the endo of
    WWII by Jews. Do you know who that is? Note that the country he was
    living in was giving him shelter, inspite of existing international
    arrest warrants.

    Otherwise, the Nazi war criminals have been dealt with through the
    existing legal channels of the invovled countries.

    I fully support identifying living Naziu war criminals and dealing with
    them through all legal means. AFAIAC, it is irrelevant that they have
    been good people since then, or that they are elderly and sick. What
    they assisted in was a crime against all humanity, and they should
    suffer the consequences of their acts.

  17. Jan said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: [email hidden] (Carole)
    Date: 7/14/2003 1:53 AM Central Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    A slight bit different than the way Peter Bowditch described it.

    Quoted message said:

    Massive Multinational Assault on Alternative Medicines

    That says it all. Sad that money and power overrides suffering people. These
    kind of things will be dealt with come judgment day.

    Jan, I really do no tunderstand how you can support people selling
    inferiorily manufactured products to those who seek alternative releif.

  18. | > > rb wrote in messages...
    | > >
    | > > ...I think many of the heads of these multinational
    | > > corporations should be executed if they had their
    | > > just desserts. I'd like to shoot them.--rb
    | > >
    | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    | And...
    | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    | You can mock if you like but this is an holocaust
    | against not only Jews but everybody. Those culpable
    | for these high crimes against humanity should indeed
    | be executed and i think i'd enjoy doing it... --rb
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    religious bigot,

    In this discussion many of us disagree on many things,
    not the least of which is the efficacy of many of the
    magical cures described by the contributors to this
    group.

    Many of the supporters of magical cures who post here
    have serious problems sorting fantacy from reality in the
    arena of medicine. One assumes that this discussion
    will continue unabated for the forseeable future. Such
    discussion is healthy for it allows all to voice their
    opinions,
    good or bad, for debate.

    You, however, have systematically assisted the degradation
    of this discussion to the level of verbal religious warfare.
    And you seem now to be advocating physical violence, even
    murder, and state that you would enjoy participating in
    those activities.

    This alone sets you apart from all other participants, pro
    or
    con, in this discussion. Your attitude is repugnant to all
    who post here in good faith. It marks you as one who thinks
    that physical violence and murder is a way to deal with
    differences of opinion.

    You are a loathsome human being. Nothing you say henceforth
    will carry any weight save to measure against the yardstick
    of your wretched utterances.

    Snidely

  19. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, if you don't believe in God or Jesus, you also don't believe


    there

    Quoted message said:

    will be a judgment day.

    I pray you will wake up before it is too late.

    Jan

    Many non-Christians believe in a final ending to the world. Even those who
    don't believe in one specific deity often ascribe to the idea of a final
    judgement.

  20. fred & michele <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, if you don't believe in God or Jesus, you also don't


    believe

    Quoted message said:

    there

    Quoted message said:

    will be a judgment day.

    I pray you will wake up before it is too late.

    Jan

    Many non-Christians believe in a final ending to the world. Even those


    who

    Quoted message said:

    don't believe in one specific deity often ascribe to the idea of a final
    judgement.

    While I'm not sure it'll be a 'judgement', I'm pretty sure that in some 5
    billion years from now the earth won't be there anymore.

    --

    Robert Bronsing

    Can't you see?
    It all makes perfect sense,
    expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

    (R. Waters)

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