An Exercise for Debunkers

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"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

While looking into Kelley/Gonzalez cancer and enzymes I came across the
enzyme absorption dogma.

Here's some links to trash this....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1507408.stm

But this doesn't "trash" the observation that, with possibly a couple of
exceptions, unprotected proteins are not absorbed through the GI tract
into the bloodstream in active form in any significant quantity. It
takes some clever and sophisticated chemical and biochemical
manipulations to get proteins to be absorbed in active form through the
digestive tract, as the article whose URL you posted clearly shows.

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It happens in the small intestine - not in the stomach due to the change

in

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PH.

Here's some other info you might be interested in to support this.

Leipner J, Saller R: Systemic enzyme therapy in oncology: effect and
mode of action. Drugs. 2000;59:769-80.

A review article. From the abstract, it doesn't seem to mention anything
about these enzymes being absorbed systemically, but rather how having a
higher level of enzymes in the small bowel may induce the synthesis of
antiproteases.

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Ambrus JL, et al.: Absorption of exogenous and endogenous proteolytic
enzymes. Clin Pharmacol Therap 1967;8:362-8.

Very old article. I was unable to get the abstract.

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Kleine MW, et al.: The intestinal absorption of orally administered
hydrolytic enzymes and their effects in the treatment of acute herpes
zoster as compared with those of oral acyclovir therapy. Phytomedicine
1995;2:7-15.

Couldn't find this article on Medline.

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Majima Y, et al.: The effect of an orally administered proteolytic
enzyme on the elasticity and viscosity of nasal mucus. Arch
Otorhinolaryngol. 1988;244(6):355-9.

It is not clear from the abstract whether the effect was thought to be
due to systemic effects or local effects on the mucus.

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Castell JV, et al. Intestinal absorption of undegraded proteins in men:
presence of bromelain in plasma after oral intake. Am J Physiol. 1997
Jul;273(1 Pt 1):G139-46.

Interesting article, but the amount absorbed was small and doesn't
demonstrate that the "enzyme therapy" used in some alternative medicine
treatments produces measurable active protein in the blood.

Nor does it support the theory that insulin produced by genetically
engineered yeasts are polluting our bread and beer.

--Rich

And don't forget scurvy is a genetic disease.

Anth said:

llsa you are a moron keep going and I will load up a programme to killfile
you.
You bait people that is your sick enjoyment and contribute very little to
this group.
May I also point out when the 'debunkers' are proved wrong they seldom
acknowledge it.
Oral enzymes _are_ absorbed.
Anth

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Peter do you know how I can get access to whole pubmed articles - not

just

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the abstracts?
I was thinking about going back to university and doing medicine this

time,

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rather than computers.

ROTFLMAO!!!! Oh, you slay me, Anth, damn near ruptured my Spleen

laughing!

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Whew, whoa, let me catch my breath.....

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(I need some friends to exchange ideas about medicine - my computer
friends/workmates although smart are not really into health and medicine)
Anth

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> I can only think of two for now.

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And don't forget scurvy is a genetic disease.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 01:58:54 +0100, "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Yeah, Anth, don't forget to alert your pathology teacher to that tidbit!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

..and what's wrong with that llsa I fail to see your amusement?
Anth

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

You know, Anth, when you don't post any context at all, it makes it
quite difficult for the readers to know what the hell you're talking
about.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

..and what's wrong with that llsa I fail to see your amusement?
Anth

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

You know, Anth, when you don't post any context at all, it makes it
quite difficult for the readers to know what the hell you're talking
about.

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-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net

Why should his readers be one-up on him?

--

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it insulin or some other mimic?
Anth

Is WHAT "insulin or some other mimic"? The stuff that stinks is insulin,
whether it is "natural" insulin (from cow or pig pancreases) or made by
genetically engineered E. coli. bacteria or genetically engineered yeasts.
Almost all insulin used now is the G.E. variety, by the way. It's safer.

--Rich

So why not go out into the supermarkets, buy a large range of different
yeasts and test them insulin?
Anth

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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--

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Is it insulin or some other mimic?
Anth

Is WHAT "insulin or some other mimic"? The stuff that stinks is insulin,
whether it is "natural" insulin (from cow or pig pancreases) or made by
genetically engineered E. coli. bacteria or genetically engineered yeasts.
Almost all insulin used now is the G.E. variety, by the way. It's safer.

--Rich

no
Anth

"Rich" <,@.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anth said:

So why not go out into the supermarkets, buy a large range of different
yeasts and test them insulin?
Anth

Would you care to rephrase that question that so it makes sense??

Aloha,

Rich

------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: An Exercise for Debunkers
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 8/10/2003 12:17 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

no
Anth

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

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"Rich" <,@.>

Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A writer for a local "New Age" newspaper came up with an interesting

theory

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a couple of issues ago. He claims that the incidence of type II diabetes

has

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reached epidemic levels, and proposes what he believes to be the cause. He
claims that genetic engineering is the culprit! He says that insulin is
produced by yeasts that have had the sequence for human insulin spliced

into

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its DNA, and that those yeasts have "escaped" and infected beer and bread
yeasts, exposing us all to doses of unneeded insulin and causing diabetes.

The exercise is to come up with solid reasons why this theory cannot be
true. I can think of four.

You alties can play, too, but then you will be reclassified as confirmed
debunkers. So maybe you would rather uncritically swallow the theory whole
and start warning people against bread, beer, and other yeast products.

Insulin is unstable to heat, and beer is heated during production, as is
bread. So, even if the GM yeast would pass through the quality control of
beer and bread manufacturers, it's unlikely that the insulin could cause any
symptoms. Further, although it is possible to have yeasts and bacteria make
straight insulin, that technique is not used becasue it's inefficient. So,
the yeasts make pro-insulin which must be further processed to render
insulin. The post-processing involves hydrolysis of specific peptide bonds,
so the chances of actual, active insulin becoming available is highly,
highly unlikely.

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

Orac said:

1. Bogus "escape": There is no evidence that I am aware of that these
yeast genetically engineered to produce human insulin have "escaped" and
gotten into yeast stocks used to make food.

BTW - these are usually also engineered to REQUIRE a certain
metabolic factor that they can only get in their culture medium.
It keeps them from reproducing in the wild.

Tsu

--
To doubt everything or to believe everything
are two equally convenient solutions; both
dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Jules Henri Poincaré

Bronsing said:

Insulin is unstable to heat, and beer is heated during production, as is
bread. So, even if the GM yeast would pass through the quality control of
beer and bread manufacturers

Considering how TIGHTLY beer companies monitor their stock, it is
unlikely that to be contaminated.

They don't just go down to the "Brewers R Us" store and buy a few
pounds - they have company-specific strains that produce the
characteristic flavour.

Tsu

--
To doubt everything or to believe everything
are two equally convenient solutions; both
dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Jules Henri Poincaré

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tsu Dho Nimh said:

Orac said:

1. Bogus "escape": There is no evidence that I am aware of that these
yeast genetically engineered to produce human insulin have "escaped" and
gotten into yeast stocks used to make food.

BTW - these are usually also engineered to REQUIRE a certain
metabolic factor that they can only get in their culture medium.
It keeps them from reproducing in the wild.

Good point. This is also true of most genetically-engineered bacteria.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Couldn't they coat the insulin until it reaches the small intestine like
they do with most oral enzymes to ensure they cross the bowel wall and into
the blood?
Anth

If you find a way to do that, you'll win a Nobel Prize and millions of
insulin-dependent diabetics will thank you for helping them do away
with the need for injectable insulin.

Mark, MD

--

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tsu Dho Nimh said:

Orac said:

1. Bogus "escape": There is no evidence that I am aware of that these
yeast genetically engineered to produce human insulin have "escaped"

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

gotten into yeast stocks used to make food.

BTW - these are usually also engineered to REQUIRE a certain
metabolic factor that they can only get in their culture medium.
It keeps them from reproducing in the wild.

Good point. This is also true of most genetically-engineered bacteria.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Excellent point. That's reason number five that this scaremonger's report is
bunkum.

--Rich