Another Hateful Letter to the Editor

CIS.DFN.DE said:

Check this out:

illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.aspOpen ↗

The letter illustrates at least one way in which 'bike trails' are a bad idea for cyclists. When
trails are present, motorists expect cyclists to use them instead of roads.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

IF one city with 20% of the total population are cyclists and these cyclists declared they would
totally boycott one entire section of that city UNLESS a network of bike trails got built...ya wanna
bet bike trails will be built really fast. Motorists are free to push us into the ditch whenever the
mood strikes them and they can do it with little or no grief to follow from their car driving peers.

When cyclists ban together changes WILL happen and motorists will end up in the ditch. Critical Mass
may not be the solution, but a Union of pro-active cyclists who go political will change the
world.......my 2 cents "John Foltz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

CIS.DFN.DE said:

Check this out:

illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.aspOpen ↗

The letter illustrates at least one way in which 'bike trails' are a bad idea for cyclists. When
trails are present, motorists expect cyclists to use them instead of roads.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%) _________(_)`=()___________________(_)=
(_)_____

John Foltz said:

CIS.DFN.DE said:

Check this out:

illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.aspOpen ↗

The letter illustrates at least one way in which 'bike trails' are a bad idea for cyclists. When
trails are present, motorists expect cyclists to use them instead of roads.

I was just thinking about this while I was driving home tonight on a road with a painted bike lane
(which often has cars parked on it, or mounds of yard waste dumped on it for curbside pickup).

The problem with trails is that they are almost always "multi-use", i.e. shared by walkers, joggers,
roller bladers, cyclists, everyone. There are no "rules of the trail". Pedestrians expect to be able
to walk many abreast, walk on whatever side of the trail they want, hardly ever think about what is
behind them, perhaps stopping abruptly, they often don't think about what is in front of them.
Roller bladers often sweep from side to side, swinging their arms, taking up wide swaths.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that! That's what walkers, joggers and roller bladers do.
They expect to do that, they expect other walkers, joggers and roller bladers to do that. I guess
that's the only rule--there are no rules and everybody has to handle it, and usually can, and
except maybe for the speediest skaters who might have trouble if they try to mix in with "regular"
trail users.

The problem comes in when cyclists are in the mix. Bikes/Trikes are vehicles. They have established
"rules of the road" that if adhered to by all users of the road, there is usually no problem or
significant delay for faster traffic.

If cyclists sojourn onto trails, they are mixed with trail users who have no rules to follow (other
than the "no rules" rule), making orderly travel at speeds of say 10mph or more very difficult,
even unsafe.

If cyclists go on roads, where we belong, but don't follow the rules of the road, e.g. stopping at
signs/lights, signaling properly for turns (no, pointing with your right arm to the right to signal
a right turn is NOT correct, at least in U.S. road traffic, can confuse other users of the road
expecting the rules of the road to be followed, or can be missed entirely by those not looking for
that unexpected hand signal, or simply can't see the right side of your body.

Long blabeddyblah short, forget about multi-use trails for commuting by cycle, ride on the roads,
and follow the established rules of the road.

--
I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for legitimate replies.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 02:56:44 GMT, Victor Kan <[email hidden]_UCEloopdrive.net> wrote: walkers,

Quoted message said:

If cyclists go on roads, where we belong, but don't follow the rules of the road, e.g. stopping at
signs/lights, signaling properly for turns (no, pointing with your right arm to the right to signal
a right turn is NOT correct, at least in U.S. road traffic,

I can't vouch for the other 49 states, but I am absolutely positive you are wrong when it comes to
Texas. We had that briefed to us by the state bicycle coordinator at a meeting of our cycling club
in San Angelo.

Here's the actual wording of the law:

Sec. 545.107. Method of Giving Hand and Arm Signals An operator who is permitted to give a hand and
arm signal shall give the signal from the left side of the vehicle as follows:

to make a left turn signal, extend hand and arm horizontally;

to make a right turn signal, extend hand and arm upward, except that a bicycle operator may signal
from the right side of the vehicle with the hand and arm extended horizontally; and

to stop or decrease speed, extend hand and arm downward.

Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: home.stx.rr.comdclaryOpen ↗ Never Forget:
politicsandprotest.orgpoliticsandprotest.orgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The letter illustrates at least one way in which 'bike trails' are a bad idea for cyclists. When
trails are present, motorists expect cyclists to use them instead of roads.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%)

John,

I emailed this lady today. I think that she has an anger problem. Here is a copy of what I sent.

Joyce,

I saw your article on bicycles on an internet message board that I frequent about cycling. I think
that you are over reacting a bit about cyclists. I live in a small town and also cycle in that town.
No one has an attitude like yours where I
live. I am a member of a local church and am involved in the community. The question begs to be
asked as why we are at war? Is the size of our vehicles and the consumption of gasoline an
issue here? It is a moral question and a spiritual one two. I really think that encouraging
those people that want to ride bikes for transportation and recreation is a very responsible
thing in this day and age. I have had much respect for concerned women for America but an
attitude like yours is very offensive. Maybe as a Christian Woman you should have patience for
cyclists. A few minutes out of your day is just not that big of a deal for the temper tantrum
that you have shown in your article. I am forwarding a link of your article to my pastor for
his reaction. It is most unchristian and uncharitable in my opinion.

Sincerely, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

This is just my opinion of this Lady's attitude. I tried to be as respectful as possible. We seem to
live in an age of might makes right. Get out of my way or I will kill you! And now concerned women
of america are the enemy too! I am just stumped by that one.

This is the reply that I forwarded to the woman who wrote the article:

It is funny how the opinion that you expressed in your article is echo'd by many of the
over-the-road trucker drivers that your see every day. The only difference is that their comments
are that they pay more in license fees, wear their seatbelts, pay more for insurance, and pay a lot
more in fuel tax and road use fees than any automobile.

They are of the opinion that all cars should be kept from the freeways and major roadways and stay
on city streets and county backroads.

I don't know about IL, but here in Minnesota, bicycles are licensed the same as cars, and as such,
have full access to all roadways with the exception of limited access highways, ie: freeways.

With 27+ years of experience in law enforcement, I have found that with a few exceptions, most
problems between cars and bicycles have been the result of a lack of courtesy and disregard of the
existing laws by the drivers of the automobiles.

What is needed more that anything is tolerance of others on the roadways by the typical
cellphone-wielding SUV operators that seem to be the majority of what you see on the roadways today.

CIS.DFN.DE said:

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She says there were 4500 cyclists on the road! That is way more than could fit on a trail. Obviously
there was something special going on, a club century ride or something. This was probably an event
that happens about once or twice a year. And it was happening on a Sunday morning, the time when it
would cause the least disruption to car traffic.

Complaining about this event is like complaining about the road being closed for a 4th of July
parade or something. And in this case the road wasn't even closed.

John Riley

"CIS.DFN.DE" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bfa43g$cv6vu$1@ID- 198690.news.uni-berlin.de:

Quoted message said:

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This needs someone in/near Illinois to provide a clearly written, accurate, concise, _polite_
rebuttal. No ranting about the evils of cars, no snide comments about cellphone-wielding ignorant
SUV drivers. A straightforward explanation of the troubles with multi-use trails, that bicycles have
legal restrictions similar to cars, that sort of thing. Commiserate with her over the people who
abuse bicycles, making things more difficult for everyone.

I'd do it, but I don't live close enough to Illinois to be credible.

I do find it amusing that the last half of her article is about how People are being Brainwashed by
the Liberals, and Forced to GIVE UP their Inalienable Right to Cars.

-Bill Hamilton

That would indeed be helpful. The trouble is that we in the cycling/advocacy community can't even
phrase an orthodox opinion on the evils of 'paint & path'. We have abandoned orthodoxy in favor of a
'big tent' that is tolerant of even 'butts on bikes'. When a butt-head rants then we can be sure the
tolerant PC butts will soon yap.

"Bill Hamilton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"CIS.DFN.DE" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bfa43g$cv6vu$1@ID- 198690.news.uni-berlin.de:

Quoted message said:

Check this out:

illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.aspOpen ↗

This needs someone in/near Illinois to provide a clearly written,

accurate,

Quoted message said:

concise, _polite_ rebuttal. No ranting about the evils of cars, no snide comments about
cellphone-wielding ignorant SUV drivers. A straightforward explanation of the troubles with
multi-use trails, that bicycles have

legal

Quoted message said:

restrictions similar to cars, that sort of thing. Commiserate with her over the people who abuse
bicycles, making things more difficult for everyone.

I'd do it, but I don't live close enough to Illinois to be credible.

I do find it amusing that the last half of her article is about how People are being Brainwashed
by the Liberals, and Forced to GIVE UP their Inalienable Right to Cars.

-Bill Hamilton

Not to mention the huge amount of money being spent by all those cyclists to pump up their local
economy. Hell, I even bet they bought a few of the lady's papers so she could keep her job. It is
hard to believe that after all those questions have been addressed time and time again, (license,
tax etc,) that she is so in the dark so as to repeat the same foolishness in her column. If I were
her editor, she would be writing a nice long piece about the benefits of cycling. Since she
obviously is not a biker, I wonder if we will all be paying her Medicaid healthcare bill soon as she
withers away driving everywhere she goes.

Bill Hamilton said:

"CIS.DFN.DE" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bfa43g$cv6vu$1@ID- 198690.news.uni-berlin.de:

Quoted message said:

Check this out:

illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.aspOpen ↗

This needs someone in/near Illinois to provide a clearly written, accurate, concise, _polite_
rebuttal. No ranting about the evils of cars, no snide comments about cellphone-wielding ignorant
SUV drivers. A straightforward explanation of the troubles with multi-use trails, that bicycles
have legal restrictions similar to cars, that sort of thing. Commiserate with her over the people
who abuse bicycles, making things more difficult for everyone.

I'd do it, but I don't live close enough to Illinois to be credible....

I doubt that The Illinois Leader would be interested in printing a rebuttal - they bill themselves
as "Illinois's Conservative News Source".

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"billydean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZVbSa.97311$N7.11671@sccrnsc03...

Quoted message said:

Not to mention the huge amount of money being spent by all those cyclists to pump up their local
economy. Hell, I even bet they bought a few of the lady's papers so she could keep her job. It is
hard to believe that after all those questions have been addressed time and time again, (license,
tax etc,) that she is so in the dark so as to repeat the same foolishness in her column. If I were
her editor, she would be writing a nice long piece about the benefits of cycling. Since she
obviously is not a biker, I wonder if we will all be paying her Medicaid healthcare bill soon as
she withers away driving everywhere she goes.

Excellent points.

This hateful article exemplifies the myopic intolerance and shallow ignorance exhibited by many
conservatives.

-Barry

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Bill Hamilton said:

"CIS.DFN.DE" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bfa43g$cv6vu$1@ID- 198690.news.uni-berlin.de:

Quoted message said:

Check this out:

illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.aspOpen ↗

This needs someone in/near Illinois to provide a clearly written, accurate, concise, _polite_
rebuttal. No ranting about the evils of cars, no snide comments about cellphone-wielding
ignorant SUV drivers. A straightforward explanation of the troubles with multi-use trails, that
bicycles have legal restrictions similar to cars, that sort of thing. Commiserate with her over
the people who abuse bicycles, making things more difficult for everyone.

I'm sure Joyce Morrison would have felt much better sitting behind a tractor trailer
rig.... Freddy

A problem I have with the extended right for a signal is I can't tell whether someone is gonna turn
or pointing at something. I frequently ride with tandems and two of the stokers frequently point at
stuff and on several occasions I've misread the intent of the outstretched right. bill g
--
Her thoughts tumbled in her head, making and breaking alliances like underpants in a dryer without
Cling Free.

Dave Clary said:

to make a right turn signal, extend hand and arm upward, except that a bicycle operator may signal
from the right side of the vehicle with the hand and arm extended horizontally; and

to stop or decrease speed, extend hand and arm downward.

Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: home.stx.rr.comdclaryOpen ↗ Never Forget:
politicsandprotest.orgpoliticsandprotest.orgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Excellent points.

This hateful article exemplifies the myopic intolerance and shallow ignorance exhibited by many
conservatives.

-Barry

As a pretty liberal guy, I have to say there is plenty of myopic intolerance and shallow ignorance
exhibited all across the political spectrum. I exhibit a fair bit of it myself.

--
David Luecke Ridin' a RANS Vivo (wahoo!) Merritt Island, Florida USA

Bill Hamilton said:

I do find it amusing that the last half of her article is about how

People

Quoted message said:

are being Brainwashed by the Liberals.

I arrived at a SAG stop on the Easter Hill Country ride in Kerrvile, Tx just in time to see and
bug-eyed, frothing at the mouth, middle aged lady drive by in her Chev Pu screaming at the group,
"GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!!!! YOU RADICAL FACIST PIGS!!!!!"

Now after what this female in Illinois has called us I don't know what I am.

Jerry

"Jerry Rhodes" skrev

Quoted message said:

Now after what this female in Illinois has called us I don't know what I am.

Confused? *smile helpfully*

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

When cyclists ban together changes WILL happen and motorists will end up in the ditch. Critical
Mass may not be the solution, but a Union of pro-active cyclists who go political will change the
world.......my 2 cents

In this town, it seems bicycle riders DID ban together. All those tight pants with flailing butts,
stop sign? -whats that?? Riding on the wrong side of the road, etc. Gee; this is a college town!
Teachin' 'em right, yup, yup, yup. Pied Piper went that-a-way... Copy Cat-ism is alive and well. ;-)

I am not overly surprised with this ladys article. Seems she got her opinions from Santa Cruz.

Chris Jordan Santa Cruz, CA.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

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Here is my reply to Joyce:

Dear Joyce,

As a bicycle rider I find your article offensive and bordering on libelous to many organizations you
mention throughout. You obviously sit on your butt in a car or at a desk all day and have no vision
of a better tomorrow for the entire world, not just the USA of the George Bush's.

Either that, or you are tapped out, and just write junk in the newspaper and online to stretch out
your job at newspaper teetering on the brink of bankruptcy because it is being driven out of bizness
by a media giant.

Or anyone of many different and sad scenarios. Get a life woman, and try riding a bike yourself.

And yes, the whole f'n world knows you wrote this article by now dearie.