cancer and vitalethine

Quoted message said:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list

_uids=7923208&dopt=Abstract

Quoted message said:

Because dosages of vitalethine as low as femtograms/kg substantially
diminish tumor size and incidence and increase survival to 80% in mice
inoculated with a uniformly fatal melanoma (Cloudman S-91), activities of
these compounds have in vivo significance. A preliminary probe of the benzyl
derivative of vitalethine in a myeloma model (NS-1) suggests efficacy (100%
survival) as well.

Anth

Anth, I see you citing higher quality research and less quotations from
"R*ckteering in M*dicine". Jolly Good, carry on!

This is in mice.
Anth

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

(maybe people should scorn me for selectively snipping part of the pub med
article)

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7923208&dopt=Abstract

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids
=7923208&dopt=Abstract

Because dosages of vitalethine as low as femtograms/kg substantially
diminish tumor size and incidence and increase survival to 80% in mice
inoculated with a uniformly fatal melanoma (Cloudman S-91), activities of
these compounds have in vivo significance. A preliminary probe of the benzyl
derivative of vitalethine in a myeloma model (NS-1) suggests efficacy (100%
survival) as well.

I've been around the block a few times on this one, too.

Notice that the article is nearly 10 years old.

Notice that it is the only article ever published on this compound.
(Don't believe me? Do a Medline search on vitalethine.)

Notice that no followup articles have ever been published.

Potential explanations include:

1. Further studies were done but went nowhere and did not produce
publishable data. (In my experience, this is the most probable
explanation for a seemingly promising compound that has a publication or
two about it in the peer-reviewed literature but then no followup
publications for many years.)

2. No further studies were done.

It appears that #2 is true in this case. One has to ask the reason no
further studies were done.

Well, it is known that there is a legal battle going on between Galen
Knight and the University of New Mexico, where the work was done. The
most recent accounts I could find are here:

http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/cancer/060701_cancer_science.shtml
http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/091501_news_unmwins.shtml

I have not been able to find out if it is resolved yet. Presumably the
legal battle is now going through the appeals process (if Knight and
Galen have the resources to pursue it), although UNM appears to have won
rather definitively in 2001.

Further, it is known that Galen Knight is injecting his compound into
various animals in a completely uncontrolled fashion and claiming
efficacy:

http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/cancer/060801_cancer_can2.shtml

Let's look a little more at Galen Knight. In 1996, he apparently formed
a company, VitaleTherapeutics:

http://www.vitaletherapeutics.org

Moreover, he makes a lot of claims and trots out a lot of standard
alt-med boilerplate about "toxic metals in the water.

On the positive side: Vitalethine may hold some promise as an anticancer
treatment, but it's hard to say based on one article in Cancer Research.
Clearly UNM thinks so, or it wouldn't bother to go to court. Apparently
the legal battle between Knight and UNM is hampering further
investigation into it, and Knight, even though he clearly has the
compound, has not done any further controlled studies with it--nor has
anyone else. Other than his Cancer Research paper, the evidence that it
might work is wholly anecdotal and uncontrolled. It may be effective,
but we don't know. It does appear at least promising enough to warrant
further controlled studies, but based on one mouse study it is
irresponsible to make the claims for Vitalethine that Knight makes.

On the minus side: What has made Galen Knight, who appears to have
started out as a promising young scientist, become progressively less
credible to me is that he now associates himself with some alt-med
groups and advocates who are themselves pushing questionable "medicine"
and "science." For instance, seems to have become obsessed with heavy
metal poisoning (where have we heard that before?), specifically nickel,
and has even in the past claimed that the nickel in underwire bras might
contribute to the development of breast cancer. He has also made some
rather vague claims about "boosting the immune system" that sound a lot
like standard altie boilerplate tarted up with a little more
sophisticated scientific terminology than the usual. More tellingly,
like many questionable alt-med practitioners, he has started to broaden
his claims for what Vitalethine can do beyond treating cancer. He has
also started referring to conventional medicine as "allopathy" and
conventional doctors as "allopaths," terms which, as most of us know,
alt-med practitioners frequently use perjoratively. Real conventional
doctors almost never use that term to describe themselves.

Also on the minus side, they say one should judge a man by his friends.
Galen Knight has a friend who prowls Usenet under the name of Kristopher
Dale. This Kristopher Dale character pushes Vitalethine and its related
compounds uncritically and with pit bull-like tenacity. Any criticism of
his posts or of Vitalethine results not in scientific discussion but
relentless ad hominem attacks. I've tangled with Dale a few times myself
in various newsgroups in the past. I haven't bumped into him in a while,
but it wouldn't surprise me if he periodically does Google searches for
any mention of Vitalethine. If that's the case, we may see him show up
in this thread.

So, in the end, I'm of two minds about Vitalethine. It does seem to hold
at least a little promise for melanoma. Unfortunately, the legal battle
over who owns it appears to have pushed Galen Knight firmly into the
altie camp, and he has made some claims for his compounds that undermine
his credibility. It also seems to me that the legal battle could have
been avoided if UNM and Scallen had cooperated rather than fought. I
have no way of knowing who was more to blame for this woeful situation,
Knight and Scallen or UNM. (Naturally Knight and Dale claim it was all
UNM's fault.) Further, the legal battle is a perfect situation for
alties, as it allows them to claim that Vitalethine is being
"suppressed." It would have been better if the legal battle had never
happened. In that case, by now definitive studies that would have
determined whether Vitalethine is the real thing or yet another in a
depressing line of compounds that show some activity in initial studies
but then later never pan out.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Anth said:

I think you can obtain this compound for veterinary purposes.

That is correct. To date, Knight seems to be the only competent
biochemist who has routinely performed the published synthesis. There
has been precious little interest in developing the authentic compounds,
especially by UNM and its "licensee", claiming instead that the
inventors were wrong about the chemistry they utilized in their animal
studies...

Quoted message said:

It has no effect on late stage animal cancers according one article I read.

Knight determined that the stimulation was ineffective when the toxic
burden was too great, suggesting that surgical debulking of tumors may
be advisable under such circumstances...

Quoted message said:

Do you think this compound is patentable? It seems to be naturally occurring
in the body.

The patent was issued for the synthesis of vitaletheine modulators and
therapeutic applications of same...

Quoted message said:

Strange thing about this is it's potency - almost LSD style doses at an

Vastly more potent even than the beta-alethine that UNM and Taub et al
claim is the actual therapeutic agent (thus justifying the ongoing
patent fraud). Knight has surmised that the naturally occurring
compound is recycled, so relatively little is required to maintain
immune function...

--
_o Kristofer Dale,
_ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, http://www.vitaletherapeutics.org