Zapper kills infectious bacteria

In said:

***For this purpose low voltage alternating current electric
potentials are applied to the treatment vessel which are of the
order of from about 0.2 to 12 volts and produce current flow
densities in the blood or other fluids of from one microampere
per square millimeter of electrode area exposed to the fluid
being treated to about two milliamperes per square millimeter.***

[...]

Quoted message said:

DC - can you calculate how strong the current you would have to
apply to the body surface in order to reach a parasite in the
liver with a current of that strength? And what would it do to
my skin, and heart and the tissues in between?

Voltages don't mean anything -- it's the current density that
matters. So, using the 1 microamp/mm2 lower bound, and assuming
a fairly standard axial thoracic cross-section of about 400
square centimeters (40,000 square millimeters) you get a net
current of 40 milliamperes. 40 mA through the thorax is quite
enough to cause cardiac arrest.

In any part of the body, 100 uA/cm2 is going to be quite
perceptible, well up into the "unpleasant shock" range.
Therefore, since Hulda's clients have never reported that
order of shock, we can safely say that the current densities
described in this patent are much higher than anything that
she has used on them.

Changing to the high end current, that's 200 mA per square cm.
It's not easy to get that much current density through skin
resistance, and if you did even with damp skin you'd get
enough heat to cause burns.

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email hidden]> ----------+

"Happy Oyster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:56:00 -0700, "f®Èé RådicaL" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Happy Oyster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 16 Nov 2003 07:00:50 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:

Jan Drew advertizes quackery and charlatanism. This is one more piece
of proof.

Regards,

Aribert Deckers

You can call it what you will, if it first does no harm (Hippocratic

oath,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which most doctors no longer follow) and also works, then I'm using it. I
also subscribe to Clark's theory of cancer. There are too many reported
cases of people killing tumors by taking anti-parasitic herbs and/or

zapping

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to be ignored. I don't expect to convince any doctors or knee-jerk
skeptics, of course.

That is idiocy.

Snappy comeback. Do you have any proof that it's idiocy? Of course not. As I
said, I'm not trying to convince any knee-jerk status quo reactionaries so
you can save your keystrokes. This newsgroup is misc.health.alternative, not
misc.health.business.as.usual. You're not going to convince anyone who's
tried the zapper and knows it works. It's rather nice not having to worry
about the upcoming flu/cold/SARS/etc. season.

"Tsu Dho Nimh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"f®Èé RådicaL" <[email hidden]> wrote:

DC - can you calculate how strong the current you would have to
apply to the body surface in order to reach a parasite in the
liver with a current of that strength? And what would it do to
my skin, and heart and the tissues in between?

Tsu Dho Nimh

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body, how
do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die when
the electricity was applied to the hands? You can theorize all you want on
paper. The actual results speak for themselves. It isn't even necessary to
know exactly how it works, as long as it does in practice. The transistor
was used for decades before a satisfactory theory was found to fully explain
its quantum behavior.

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"f®Èé RådicaL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Happy Oyster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 16 Nov 2003 07:00:50 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:

Jan Drew advertizes quackery and charlatanism. This is one more piece
of proof.

Regards,

Aribert Deckers

You can call it what you will, if it first does no harm (Hippocratic

oath,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which most doctors no longer follow) and also works, then I'm using it.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

also subscribe to Clark's theory of cancer. There are too many reported
cases of people killing tumors by taking anti-parasitic herbs and/or

zapping

Quoted message said:

to be ignored.

Cite one. I have been looking for them ever since Hulda appeared, and and
have not found one testimonial worth its salt.

You would automatically discount any testimonial I pointed you to, so why
bother? You can do the google search (zapper cancer testimonial) yourself.

It's chemo and radiation that should be classified as quackery, given the
poor remission rates and outrageous cost of these treatments. These
treatments violate the Hippocratic oath by doing great harm to the immune
system, which is the only real defense against cancer. The people that are
curing themselves with alternative approaches never make or seek headlines.
They are the ones rejected as hopeless by the doctors and are sent home to
die. They have nothing to lose by trying inexpensive alternative treatments
such as herbs, the zapper or the macrobiotic diet. Stop beating up the alts
and try to open your mind for a change.

In said:

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body, how
do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die when
the electricity was applied to the hands?

That very moment?

You're presuming your conclusion.

Quoted message said:

You can theorize all you want on
paper. The actual results speak for themselves. It isn't even necessary to
know exactly how it works, as long as it does in practice. The transistor
was used for decades before a satisfactory theory was found to fully explain
its quantum behavior.

That's an utterly *fascinating* rewrite of history, especially
from someone claiming to be an electrical engineer.
Unfortunately, the basic theory of solid-state quantum
electronics and semiconductors was worked out in the 1930s,
quite a bit before the Shockley et al. demonstrated their
junction device in the late 1940s.

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email hidden]> ----------+

"D. C. Sessions" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In said:

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body,

how

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the electricity was applied to the hands?

That very moment?

Yes, within minutes of using the zapper, the pus started flowing from my
eye. Considering there had been no change in my condition for 48 hours prior
to this, I can reasonably conclude that the zapper was the direct cause.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Zapper kills infectious bacteria
From: "f®Èé RådicaL" [email hidden]
Date: 11/17/2003 10:01 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"D. C. Sessions" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In said:

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body,

how

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the electricity was applied to the hands?

That very moment?

Yes, within minutes of using the zapper, the pus started flowing from my
eye. Considering there had been no change in my condition for 48 hours prior
to this, I can reasonably conclude that the zapper was the direct cause.

That's too simple for the debunkers, they can't understand anything unless they
have a double blinded study in a controlled setting and peer-reviewed.

Except for the safety of amalgams, then they just go by record. One from
*organized medicine and dentistry*

Jan

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain

f®Èé RådicaL <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body,

how

Quoted message said:

do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die

when

Quoted message said:

the electricity was applied to the hands?

You don't know that, you just assumed it. Did you do gram staining? Were the
results confirmed by a microbiologist?

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

f®Èé RådicaL said:

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body,

how

Quoted message said:

do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die

when

Quoted message said:

the electricity was applied to the hands?

Same way you explain the rantings of religious zealots. They reveal truths.
Do you believe all of them?

moo x2

"f®Èé RådicaL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body,

how

Quoted message said:

do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die

when

Quoted message said:

the electricity was applied to the hands?

How could this electrical force selectively identify malevolant cells?

Quoted message said:

The transistor
was used for decades before a satisfactory theory was found to fully

explain

Quoted message said:

its quantum behavior.

[censored].

le moo

"f$B%g%M!&(BR$BiE(BicaL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Happy Oyster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 16 Nov 2003 07:00:50 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:

Jan Drew advertizes quackery and charlatanism. This is one more piece
of proof.

Regards,

Aribert Deckers

You can call it what you will, if it first does no harm (Hippocratic oath,
which most doctors no longer follow) and also works, then I'm using it. I
also subscribe to Clark's theory of cancer. There are too many reported
cases of people killing tumors by taking anti-parasitic herbs and/or

zapping

Quoted message said:

to be ignored. I don't expect to convince any doctors or knee-jerk
skeptics, of course.

Are you sure it works?
Could you not be mistaken?

Think about it.

Why do you think 'I had green puss comming out of my eye so I went to the
doctor and got some antibiotics, then it went away.' doesn't seem like a
zapper cure to some of us here?

What can you see as an alternative explanation for your cure?

--
"The emperor is naked!"
"No he isn't, he's merely endorsing a clothing-optional lifestyle!"

to email me
Please remove "all your clothes"

Doug

<snip>
It isn't even necessary to

Quoted message said:

know exactly how it works, as long as it does in practice. The transistor
was used for decades before a satisfactory theory was found to fully

explain

Quoted message said:

its quantum behavior.

So you didn't bother studying the history of your field either.
I am Doug's complete lack of suprise.

--
"The emperor is naked!"
"No he isn't, he's merely endorsing a clothing-optional lifestyle!"

to email me
Please remove "all your clothes"

Doug

f®Èé RådicaL said:

"Tsu Dho Nimh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"f®Èé RådicaL" <[email hidden]> wrote:

DC - can you calculate how strong the current you would have to
apply to the body surface in order to reach a parasite in the
liver with a current of that strength? And what would it do to
my skin, and heart and the tissues in between?

Tsu Dho Nimh

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body, how
do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die when
the electricity was applied to the hands?

They were dying already. What you describe is the end stage of a
classic ear infection ... all that green gunk was the carnage
from the battle between your white blood cells and the bacteria,
coming out of a ruptured ear drum.

No matter what you did to your hands, it would have happened.

Quoted message said:

You can theorize all you want on
paper. The actual results speak for themselves. It isn't even necessary to
know exactly how it works, as long as it does in practice. The transistor
was used for decades before a satisfactory theory was found to fully explain
its quantum behavior.

No. The only surprise the makers of the original one had was how
FEW atoms of dopant it took to make a transistor.

Tsu Dho Nimh

--
When businesses invoke the "protection of consumers," it's a lot like
politicians invoking morality and children - grab your wallet and/or
your kid and run for your life.

f®Èé RådicaL said:

"D. C. Sessions" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

That's an utterly *fascinating* rewrite of history, especially
from someone claiming to be an electrical engineer.
Unfortunately, the basic theory of solid-state quantum
electronics and semiconductors was worked out in the 1930s,
quite a bit before the Shockley et al. demonstrated their
junction device in the late 1940s.

Quoted message said:

Your're outside your area of competance. Check this 03-05-1999 article out
and learn:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/03/990305070639.htm

Qutoing the article:

Quoted message said:

However, since the invention of the transistor 50 years ago, certain
characteristics of the p-n junction have been poorly understood and
improperly described in textbooks.

CERTAIN CHARACTERISTICS: this is a minor adjustment to the
description of how they work, not anything radically
enlightening.

Tsu Dho Nimh

--
When businesses invoke the "protection of consumers," it's a lot like
politicians invoking morality and children - grab your wallet and/or
your kid and run for your life.

Quoted message said:

In said:

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body,

how

Quoted message said:

do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die when
the electricity was applied to the hands?

That very moment?

You're presuming your conclusion.

Quoted message said:

You can theorize all you want on
paper. The actual results speak for themselves. It isn't even necessary to
know exactly how it works, as long as it does in practice. The transistor
was used for decades before a satisfactory theory was found to fully

explain

Quoted message said:

its quantum behavior.

That's an utterly *fascinating* rewrite of history, especially
from someone claiming to be an electrical engineer.
Unfortunately, the basic theory of solid-state quantum
electronics and semiconductors was worked out in the 1930s,
quite a bit before the Shockley et al. demonstrated their
junction device in the late 1940s.

"Radical" is not an electrical engineer. As a matter of fact, he's barely
qualified to be a Sanitation engineer.

Since he's so transparently lied about himself, does anyone think he'd hesitate
to lie about his beliefs?

In said:

f®Èé RådicaL said:

"D. C. Sessions" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

That's an utterly *fascinating* rewrite of history, especially
from someone claiming to be an electrical engineer.
Unfortunately, the basic theory of solid-state quantum
electronics and semiconductors was worked out in the 1930s,
quite a bit before the Shockley et al. demonstrated their
junction device in the late 1940s.

Quoted message said:

Your're outside your area of competance. Check this 03-05-1999 article out
and learn:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/03/990305070639.htm

Qutoing the article:

Quoted message said:

However, since the invention of the transistor 50 years ago, certain
characteristics of the p-n junction have been poorly understood and
improperly described in textbooks.

CERTAIN CHARACTERISTICS: this is a minor adjustment to the
description of how they work, not anything radically
enlightening.

The original claim was that "The transistor was used for decades
before a satisfactory theory was found to fully explain its
quantum behavior." The article cited itself notes that the
older theory was quite satisfactory for most practical devices.

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email hidden]> ----------+

"f®Èé RådicaL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"f®Èé RådicaL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Happy Oyster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On 16 Nov 2003 07:00:50 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:
>
> Jan Drew advertizes quackery and charlatanism. This is one more

piece

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> of proof.
>
> Regards,
>
> Aribert Deckers
>

You can call it what you will, if it first does no harm (Hippocratic

oath,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which most doctors no longer follow) and also works, then I'm using

it.

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

also subscribe to Clark's theory of cancer. There are too many

reported

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cases of people killing tumors by taking anti-parasitic herbs and/or

zapping

Quoted message said:

to be ignored.

Cite one. I have been looking for them ever since Hulda appeared, and

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have not found one testimonial worth its salt.

You would automatically discount any testimonial I pointed you to, so why
bother? You can do the google search (zapper cancer testimonial) yourself.

I thought you would be unable to direct me to any. For your information I
find some of the testimonials on the Gerson site of quite good quality. I
have never seen a worthwhile one for Hulda.

Quoted message said:

It's chemo and radiation that should be classified as quackery, given the
poor remission rates and outrageous cost of these treatments. These
treatments violate the Hippocratic oath by doing great harm to the immune
system, which is the only real defense against cancer.

We will argue about that another day. It is true that most types of
metastatic cancer respond poorly to conventional treatments, but because of
the nature of cancer, not because of immune system damage.

Quoted message said:

The people that are
curing themselves with alternative approaches never make or seek

headlines.

[censored]. Those who feel they have done well on alternatives are not at
all shy about sharing that information, at least on alternative mailing
lists, which I also monnitor.

How do even you hide thousands of patients who have reversed cancer?

Quoted message said:

They are the ones rejected as hopeless by the doctors and are sent home to
die. They have nothing to lose by trying inexpensive alternative

treatments

Quoted message said:

such as herbs, the zapper or the macrobiotic diet. Stop beating up the

alts

Quoted message said:

and try to open your mind for a change.

I have no objection to people trying alternatives as an adjunct to
conventional methods or when there is no other option. But Hulda Clark now
insists that she has the cure for cancer and that conventional treatmnets
are unnecessary, even as she and her allies have not produced a single
verifiable case. This is serious quackery.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Zapper kills infectious bacteria
From: Tsu Dho Nimh [email hidden]
Date: 11/18/2003 5:14 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

f®Èé RådicaL said:

"Tsu Dho Nimh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"f®Èé RådicaL" <[email hidden]> wrote:

DC - can you calculate how strong the current you would have to
apply to the body surface in order to reach a parasite in the
liver with a current of that strength? And what would it do to
my skin, and heart and the tissues in between?

Tsu Dho Nimh

If low-current, high-frequency electricity can't pass through the body, how
do you explain that the bacteria causing my ear infection began to die when
the electricity was applied to the hands?

They were dying already

Assuumption.

Quoted message said:

What you describe is the end stage of a
classic ear infection ... all that green gunk was the carnage
from the battle between your white blood cells and the bacteria,
coming out of a ruptured ear drum.

No matter what you did to your hands, it would have happened.

So do nothing.

Quoted message said:

You can theorize all you want on

Quoted message said:

paper. The actual results speak for themselves. It isn't even necessary to
know exactly how it works, as long as it does in practice. The transistor
was used for decades before a satisfactory theory was found to fully explain
its quantum behavior.

Quoted message said:

No.

Assumption.

Of course the real problem on this ng, is the fact that Hulda Clark uses a
zapper.

If Barrett used it it would be wonderful, and recommended.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Zapper kills infectious bacteria
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 11/18/2003 1:22 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

Peter Moran is an *organized medicine* sock puppet.

He hasn't read Hulda's Books, he has no idea of the cases in them.

Note the word *worthwhile*

Add it to this list.

*Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut* *reasonable*
*significant* *credibile* *compelling*

ZZzz.

Jan

Quoted message said:

You can call it what you will, if it first does no harm (Hippocratic

Quoted message said:

oath,

Quoted message said:

> which most doctors no longer follow) and also works, then I'm using

it.

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

> also subscribe to Clark's theory of cancer. There are too many

reported

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> cases of people killing tumors by taking anti-parasitic herbs and/or
zapping
> to be ignored.

Cite one. I have been looking for them ever since Hulda appeared, and

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have not found one testimonial worth its salt.

You would automatically discount any testimonial I pointed you to, so why
bother? You can do the google search (zapper cancer testimonial) yourself.

I thought you would be unable to direct me to any. For your information I
find some of the testimonials on the Gerson site of quite good quality. I
have never seen a worthwhile one for Hulda.

Quoted message said:

It's chemo and radiation that should be classified as quackery, given the
poor remission rates and outrageous cost of these treatments. These
treatments violate the Hippocratic oath by doing great harm to the immune
system, which is the only real defense against cancer.

We will argue about that another day. It is true that most types of
metastatic cancer respond poorly to conventional treatments, but because of
the nature of cancer, not because of immune system damage.

Quoted message said:

The people that are
curing themselves with alternative approaches never make or seek

headlines.

[censored]. Those who feel they have done well on alternatives are not at
all shy about sharing that information, at least on alternative mailing
lists, which I also monnitor.

How do even you hide thousands of patients who have reversed cancer?

Quoted message said:

They are the ones rejected as hopeless by the doctors and are sent home to
die. They have nothing to lose by trying inexpensive alternative

treatments

Quoted message said:

such as herbs, the zapper or the macrobiotic diet. Stop beating up the

alts

Quoted message said:

and try to open your mind for a change.

I have no objection to people trying alternatives as an adjunct to
conventional methods or when there is no other option. But Hulda Clark now
insists that she has the cure for cancer and that conventional treatmnets
are unnecessary, even as she and her allies have not produced a single
verifiable case. This is serious quackery.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

(Jan) said:

He hasn't read Hulda's Books, he has no idea of the cases in them.

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

Alternative practitioners give no 100% cures, and anyone who does is indeed a
quack.

"The Cure for All Cancers" by Hulda Clark.

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

--

------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance.