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Mass vaccination of adults against hepatitis B 'inappropriate'

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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3 December 2003
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john
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  1. Naughty Indians, not singing from the Merck hymn sheet:

    http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=45902

    Monday, December 01, 2003 Start a discussion on this topic

    Mass vaccination of adults against hepatitis B 'inappropriate'

    ISLAMABAD - The increasing demand for mass vaccination of adults against
    hepatitis B is not based on a scientific and technical appraisal of the
    perceived threat of infection, Executive Director of the National Institute
    of Health (NIH) Dr Athar Saeed Dil has said.

    Globally, adult immunisation is only recommended for high-risk groups
    including injection drug users, healthcare workers who have a high chance
    of needle [censored] injury and contact with infected blood or body fluids of
    infected persons; household contacts of chronically infected persons,
    commercial sex workers, and persons with multiple sex partners or a
    diagnosis of sexually transmitted disease, he said.

    Dr Dil was asked to comment on the increasing demand from various quarters
    for initiation of mass vaccination for adults against hepatitis B. "Mass
    immunisation of adults is certainly not the answer and is not recommended,"
    he stated.

    Chronic infection occurs in 90 per cent of infants infected at birth, in 30
    per cent children infected at age 1-5 years and only 6 per cent persons
    infected after five years of age. The consequences of hepatitis B infection
    thus depend on age at infection, explained Dr Dil.

    The NIH executive director said it was unusual for those infected later in
    adult life to become chronic carriers of the virus. The argument,
    therefore, forms the basis of having a mass immunisation programme for
    infants to protect them from this deadly disease.

    According to some experts, and even looking at it hypothetically, adult
    immunisation in the country would cost around Rs10 billion, which is a huge
    amount in comparison with the risk factor. In Pakistan, though there are no
    nationwide community-based studies to measure the prevalence of hepatitis B
    virus, the blood screening data of the country shows that the average
    prevalence of hepatitis B stands at 2.5 per cent in blood donors and 7.8
    per cent among health workers.

    The prevalence among commercial sex workers is estimated to be around 11.7
    per cent whereas among those with chronic liver diseases, it stands at 33.5
    per cent. In pregnant women, it is estimated at 3.64 per cent.

    "The current strategy in the country has an overall goal of eliminating
    hepatitis B transmission because most of the serious consequences related
    to the disease occur among persons with chronic hepatitis B infection and
    its consequences, cirrhosis and liver cancer," Dr Dil said.

    Dr Dil said the government has in place, a programme to save the future
    generation of the country from this scourge and for this purpose, universal
    immunisation of all children under one year of age is now a part of
    Pakistan's routine immunisation programme which provides for free
    immunisation against deadly diseases to all children from birth to nine
    months of age.

    The cost of immunising children under one year against hepatitis-B is
    estimated at over Rs347 million. The challenge of arranging resources of
    such magnitude was overcome with the support of the Global Alliance for
    Vaccines and Immunisation to meet the cost. This, Dr Dil said, was a major
    achievement. The public at large needs to be educated on avoiding
    unnecessary use of injections, he said, recommending the following steps:

    l Ensure that in case of need for blood transfusion, the blood is screened
    for hepatitis B.

    l Avoid going to roadside dentists since they do not have sterilised
    equipment; insist on a new blade while visiting the barber; do not share
    razors, toothbrushes or any personal care item that might have blood on it,
    and do not go for body piercing or tattooing from anywhere as the
    instruments used could transmit the infection.

    l Pregnant mothers must be screened for hepatitis B.

    l Persons infected with the disease must not donate blood, organs or tissue.

    l Should restrict oneself to one sexual partner; those associated with
    healthcare must ensure that they follow standard precautions while handling
    needles and other sharps. - Internews

  2. [email hidden] (john) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Naughty Indians, not singing from the Merck hymn sheet:

    "Indians." Hold on to that thought.

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=45902

    Monday, December 01, 2003 Start a discussion on this topic

    Mass vaccination of adults against hepatitis B 'inappropriate'

    ISLAMABAD - The increasing demand for mass vaccination of adults

    Hmmm. Last time I checked Islamabad was in Pakistan, not India. Well, the
    city may have, under a different name, once been part of India, but that
    was over 55 years ago, wasn't it? Back in the days of the Raj, IIRC. Does
    your site take the same attitude toward history as it does toward science?

  3. "Eric Bohlman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (john) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Naughty Indians, not singing from the Merck hymn sheet:

    "Indians." Hold on to that thought.

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=45902

    Monday, December 01, 2003 Start a discussion on this topic

    Mass vaccination of adults against hepatitis B 'inappropriate'

    ISLAMABAD - The increasing demand for mass vaccination of adults

    Hmmm. Last time I checked Islamabad was in Pakistan, not India. Well,


    the

    Quoted message said:

    city may have, under a different name, once been part of India, but that
    was over 55 years ago, wasn't it? Back in the days of the Raj, IIRC.


    Does

    Quoted message said:

    your site take the same attitude toward history as it does toward science?

    "John T. Whale" lives in the past. He cites at anti-vaccination literature
    from 70, 80, and 90 years ago.

  4. (john) said:

    Naughty Indians, not singing from the Merck hymn sheet:

    http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=45902

    ISLAMABAD - The increasing demand for mass vaccination of adults against
    hepatitis B is not based on a scientific and technical appraisal of the
    perceived threat of infection, Executive Director of the National Institute
    of Health (NIH) Dr Athar Saeed Dil has said.

    Globally, adult immunisation is only recommended for high-risk groups
    including injection drug users, healthcare workers who have a high chance
    of needle [censored] injury and contact with infected blood or body fluids of
    infected persons; household contacts of chronically infected persons,
    commercial sex workers, and persons with multiple sex partners or a
    diagnosis of sexually transmitted disease, he said.

    Dr Dil was asked to comment on the increasing demand from various quarters
    for initiation of mass vaccination for adults against hepatitis B. "Mass
    immunisation of adults is certainly not the answer and is not recommended,"
    he stated.

    Chronic infection occurs in 90 per cent of infants infected at birth, in


    30

    Quoted message said:

    per cent children infected at age 1-5 years and only 6 per cent persons
    infected after five years of age. The consequences of hepatitis B infection
    thus depend on age at infection, explained Dr Dil.

    The NIH executive director said it was unusual for those infected later


    in

    Quoted message said:

    adult life to become chronic carriers of the virus. The argument,
    therefore, forms the basis of having a mass immunisation programme for
    infants to protect them from this deadly disease.

    According to some experts, and even looking at it hypothetically, adult
    immunisation in the country would cost around Rs10 billion, which is a huge
    amount in comparison with the risk factor. In Pakistan, though there are


    no

    Quoted message said:

    nationwide community-based studies to measure the prevalence of hepatitis


    B

    Quoted message said:

    virus, the blood screening data of the country shows that the average
    prevalence of hepatitis B stands at 2.5 per cent in blood donors and 7.8
    per cent among health workers.

    The prevalence among commercial sex workers is estimated to be around 11.7
    per cent whereas among those with chronic liver diseases, it stands at 33.5
    per cent. In pregnant women, it is estimated at 3.64 per cent.

    "The current strategy in the country has an overall goal of eliminating
    hepatitis B transmission because most of the serious consequences related
    to the disease occur among persons with chronic hepatitis B infection and
    its consequences, cirrhosis and liver cancer," Dr Dil said.

    Dr Dil said the government has in place, a programme to save the future
    generation of the country from this scourge and for this purpose, universal
    immunisation of all children under one year of age is now a part of
    Pakistan's routine immunisation programme which provides for free
    immunisation against deadly diseases to all children from birth to nine
    months of age.

    The cost of immunising children under one year against hepatitis-B is
    estimated at over Rs347 million. The challenge of arranging resources of
    such magnitude was overcome with the support of the Global Alliance for
    Vaccines and Immunisation to meet the cost. This, Dr Dil said, was a major
    achievement. The public at large needs to be educated on avoiding
    unnecessary use of injections, he said, recommending the following steps:

    Quoted message said:


    l Ensure that in case of need for blood transfusion, the blood is screened
    for hepatitis B.

    l Avoid going to roadside dentists since they do not have sterilised
    equipment; insist on a new blade while visiting the barber; do not share
    razors, toothbrushes or any personal care item that might have blood on


    it,

    Quoted message said:

    and do not go for body piercing or tattooing from anywhere as the
    instruments used could transmit the infection.

    l Pregnant mothers must be screened for hepatitis B.

    l Persons infected with the disease must not donate blood, organs or tissue.

    Quoted message said:

    concatenated
    l Should restrict oneself to one sexual partner; those associated with
    healthcare must ensure that they follow standard precautions while handling
    needles and other sharps. - Internews

    ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
    ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    William A. Noyes said:


    "Eric Bohlman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (john) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Naughty Indians, not singing from the Merck hymn sheet:

    "Indians." Hold on to that thought.

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=45902

    Monday, December 01, 2003 Start a discussion on this topic

    Mass vaccination of adults against hepatitis B 'inappropriate'

    ISLAMABAD - The increasing demand for mass vaccination of adults

    Hmmm. Last time I checked Islamabad was in Pakistan, not India. Well,


    the

    Quoted message said:

    city may have, under a different name, once been part of India, but that
    was over 55 years ago, wasn't it? Back in the days of the Raj, IIRC.


    Does

    Quoted message said:

    your site take the same attitude toward history as it does toward science?

    "John T. Whale" lives in the past. He cites at anti-vaccination literature
    from 70, 80, and 90 years ago.

    And the older it is, the more he believes it. I'm surprised he
    doesn't quote Galen frequently.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  6. "john" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Naughty Indians, not singing from the Merck hymn sheet:

    http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=45902

    Monday, December 01, 2003 Start a discussion on this topic

    Mass reading of whaleto [censored] 'inappropriate'


    <snip>

  7. (john) said:

    Naughty Indians, not singing from the Merck hymn sheet:

    http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=45902

    John, you are such an idiot.

    This Pakistani (not Indian, you moron) official is saying they should
    not waste money immunizing adults. A mass immunization campaign for
    adults is not necessary and is unlikely to be helpful. Instead, they
    should try to immunize all infants.

    In the U.S., we have decided that mass immunization against adults is
    not necessary and is unlikely to be helpful. We are trying to immunize
    all infants.

    Now, did you just skim this article and conclude that Dr. Dil is
    against all hepatitis B immunization? Or did you fail to notice that
    he's "singing from the Merck hymn sheet" and wants all infants
    immunized?

    Yay, Merck! Stamping out hepatitis B worldwide!

    PF, whose own children are immunized against hepatitis B

  8. [email hidden] (PF Riley) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In the U.S., we have decided that mass immunization against adults is
    not necessary and is unlikely to be helpful. We are trying to immunize
    all infants.

    We should be trying to immunize all unimmunized adults, too. In the US
    with clean disposable parenterals and a blood supply clean of hep B,
    the disease is essentially a sexually transmitted one. We should have
    targeted adults 15-30 FIRST, and only THEN gone after adults 30-50,
    and younger children.

    There's been a lot of stupidity about infectius hepatitis vaccination
    recommendations. To use another example with another virus, if the CDC
    and various health organizations hadn't been trying to be "cost
    effective" we wouldn't have had 600 people getting hep A, even if the
    onions were contaminated.

    Oh, well, at least hep A is rarely fatal, and never chronic. Can't say
    that about hep B. Some fraction of adults who get it are "Typhoid
    Mary's" for the virus, spreading it to all sexual partners, just like
    AIDS. It's going to talk half a century to fix this problem by mearly
    vaccinating all children. What the hell are these people thinking?

    SBH

    Who got hep A and B shots as soon as he could, and wishes there was
    one for hep C.

  9. "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In the U.S., we have decided that mass immunization against adults

    How do you immunize against adults?

    🙂

  10. Markiosos2 Probertiosos2 said:

    "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In the U.S., we have decided that mass immunization against adults

    How do you immunize against adults?

    🙂


    See that movie where everyone dies at 29 or something.

  11. Markiosos2 Probertiosos2 said:


    "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In the U.S., we have decided that mass immunization against adults

    How do you immunize against adults?

    🙂

    Hmmm... if only we could figure out how to immunize against anti-vac
    l00nz...

    PF

  12. On 4 Dec 2003 14:23:13 -0800, [email hidden] (Steve Harris

    ) said:


    We should be trying to immunize all unimmunized adults, too. In the US
    with clean disposable parenterals and a blood supply clean of hep B,
    the disease is essentially a sexually transmitted one. We should have
    targeted adults 15-30 FIRST, and only THEN gone after adults 30-50,
    and younger children.

    There's been a lot of stupidity about infectius hepatitis vaccination
    recommendations. To use another example with another virus, if the CDC
    and various health organizations hadn't been trying to be "cost
    effective" we wouldn't have had 600 people getting hep A, even if the
    onions were contaminated.

    But if the money saved from not immunizing everyone against hepatitis
    A is put to better use and there is still some left over for people
    who actually get the disease, we could still be better off.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, well, at least hep A is rarely fatal, and never chronic. Can't say
    that about hep B. Some fraction of adults who get it are "Typhoid
    Mary's" for the virus, spreading it to all sexual partners, just like
    AIDS. It's going to talk half a century to fix this problem by mearly
    vaccinating all children. What the hell are these people thinking?

    Here's the answer to your question:

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00033405.htm

    PF

  13. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Naturally an *organized medicine* answer.

    Rebutted by, naturally, a whacko anti-vac answer (snipped).

    --Rich

  14. "Tom Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Markiosos2 Probertiosos2 said:

    "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In the U.S., we have decided that mass immunization against adults

    How do you immunize against adults?

    🙂


    See that movie where everyone dies at 29 or something.

    Or play current music real loud?

    ;o) Rich

  15. [email hidden] (john) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Naughty Indians, not singing from the Merck hymn sheet:

    Correction: naughty "Pakistanis". Although they were Indians not that long ago.

    http://www.whale.to/vaccine/point.html

    cheers

    john

  16. "john" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (john) wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Naughty Indians, not singing from the Merck hymn sheet:

    Correction: naughty "Pakistanis". Although they were Indians not that


    long ago.

    Quoted message said:


    http://www.whale.to/vaccine/point.html

    Actually, Jonny-Boy, they were all Aryans.

  17. [email hidden] (PF Riley) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    On 4 Dec 2003 14:23:13 -0800, [email hidden] (Steve Harris

    ) said:


    We should be trying to immunize all unimmunized adults, too. In the US
    with clean disposable parenterals and a blood supply clean of hep B,
    the disease is essentially a sexually transmitted one. We should have
    targeted adults 15-30 FIRST, and only THEN gone after adults 30-50,
    and younger children.

    There's been a lot of stupidity about infectius hepatitis vaccination
    recommendations. To use another example with another virus, if the CDC
    and various health organizations hadn't been trying to be "cost
    effective" we wouldn't have had 600 people getting hep A, even if the
    onions were contaminated.

    But if the money saved from not immunizing everyone against hepatitis
    A is put to better use and there is still some left over for people
    who actually get the disease, we could still be better off.

    Yeah, but how many thousands of people had to get the prophylactic Hep
    A Ig? That stuff is expensive. (I think I heard something about 20 or 30,000.)

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Oh, well, at least hep A is rarely fatal, and never chronic. Can't say
    that about hep B. Some fraction of adults who get it are "Typhoid
    Mary's" for the virus, spreading it to all sexual partners, just like
    AIDS. It's going to talk half a century to fix this problem by mearly
    vaccinating all children. What the hell are these people thinking?

    Here's the answer to your question:

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00033405.htm

    PF

    Mark, MD

  18. [email hidden] (PF Riley) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    But if the money saved from not immunizing everyone against hepatitis
    A is put to better use and there is still some left over for people
    who actually get the disease, we could still be better off.

    Indeed, but the same thing applies to Hep B. If we used all the money
    we're using to vaccinate infants who won't be at risk for another 15
    years, to go after kids in junior high who are going to hit maximal
    risk in 5 years (or less) then we could save an entire cohort of kids
    how are going to miss out, just because they don't happen to be
    infants right now.

    What the hell are these people thinking?

    Quoted message said:


    Here's the answer to your question:

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00033405.htm

    PF

    COMMENT:

    I read it. The answer is that they weren't thinking very well.

    They do admit:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In the United States most persons with hepatitis B acquire the


    infection as adolescents or adults. Several specific modes of
    transmission have been identified, including sexual contact,
    especially among homosexual men and persons with multiple heterosexual
    partners; parenteral drug use; occupational exposures; household
    contact with a person who has an acute infection or with a chronic
    carrier; receipt of certain blood products; and hemodialysis. However,
    over one-third of patients with acute hepatitis B do not have readily
    identifiable risk factors (1,2). <<

    But having said that, they don't think it through. The rationale is
    that we can't ever wipe it out, if we don't vaccinate everybody. So
    let's do the kids because we have them getting vaccinated at regular
    doctor's visits already. This is fine, except that 1) it's a program
    that will take 50 years and meanwhile the money could be spend better
    fighting the fire where it's burning. The document says childhood
    vaccination doesn't "preclude" doing that, but indeed it does, if
    money spent doing one public health program is money not spent in
    another. And 2) the premise is incorrect because you can't wipe it out
    even with the program in place. Even if you vaccinate all US kids,
    that doesn't mean you can wipe the disease out here, either. There are
    emigrants from (say) Mexico. It's just exactly the same problem we
    have with hepatitis A.

    And now let's ask a really difficult question: Where's the proof that
    kids vaccinated at 12 months old, won't require a booster for immunity
    at 20 or 30 ANYWAY? If they do, you lose the entire argument. But no
    such evidence exists. We haven't been vaccinating kids that long. The
    government is willing to stipulate that kids vaccinated at birth
    should be protected "at least 5 years." But that's all that can be
    said, and we need more for a program like this. Up to 60% of young
    adults lose the antibody 9 years after vaccination, but nobody knows
    what that means. It doesn't necessarily mean they're totally
    unprotected, but probably some are. We're in the dark. Vaccinate
    newborns and you lose 12 years of time where the vaccine is nearly
    useless, and immunity is decaying away. That should make up for a LOT
    of the fact that save money doing it.

    SBH

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