Sticking up for the British....

garryb59 wrote:

SNIP!

So, Lance Armstrong eh? Well here I go....

(this is the \v version as I'm a bit [censored])

He is without doubt the world's second greatest cyclist.

I like his books and his methods to win 6 TdF.

I would very much like Herr Ullrich to convincingly beat him this year.

This will not happen, unfortunately for our 21st centuary PouPou.

Next up how about that charming Herr Voigt? Good enough to be a tour
winner. Maybe not this year though...

Vino would make a worthy champingnon (sp?) but prolly not this year.

So, LA again then.

I cannot see anyone ever beating 7 TdF MJ's again in my lifetime. Good
luck to him, so he's single track and al that but wow what focus.

LA will never win ProTour though - or the classics.

You ALL know who is the best racing cyclist the world has seen though,
don't you...

CANIBAL!!!!

bfn,

Tony B

in message <[email hidden]>, garryb59

('[email protected]') said:

..sometimes I see an anti-Armstrong sentiment being expressed here,
and that's fine we all have our views, but I'm definitely not one of
them, quite the contrary. The more I see him, and the more I can
understand about what's going on with this race, he's the one who's
setting the pace in all ways and everybody else is playing catch up.

Which is what makes it boring. He can also be a thoroughly unlikable
person at times - he is driven, ruthless, aggressive, and holds grudges.
Of course, this is part of what makes him such a supreme athlete, but it
doesn't win him many fans. Yes, he is (since he recovered from cancer) a
formidable athlete... and to be fair he seems to have mellowed a bit
this year (his gesture of not wanting to wear the yellow today seemed to
me quite uncharacteristically generous).

Quoted message said:

Personally, I hope he wins. Should be interesting anyway.

I don't really care either way whether he wins on the Champs Elysees, but
if the rest of the Tour simply becomes a procession with Armstrong
wearing the yellow all the rest of the way I'll be very disappointed.

And, you know, there are a lot of interesting and characterful riders in
the peloton who are worth supporting. I'm still shouting mainly for
Thomas Voekler, although unless he can sustain a break sometime before
Saturday he isn't realistically going to be able to do much more this
year. But look at Tom Boonen, who's carrying the green jersey as a
consequence of two utterly brilliant sprints and still manages to be
cheerful and good natured whenever he talks to the press (contrast
Robbie MacEwan, who is insufferably cocky when he wins and an
insufferable whinger when he doesn't); or Erik Dekker who was the
powerhouse behind Monday's breakaway; or poor David Zabriskie who, if he
hadn't fallen, would probably still have the yellow jersey - and dozens
of others.

Frankly, the riders I like are the riders who lead breakaways, because
they make the race exciting and they're ultimately the only people who
can potentially take the race away from the big grinding efficient
engines of the big teams like Discovery. Although, having said that, if
you want to cheer for a team, CSC are punching far above their weight.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
,/| _.--''^``-...___.._.,;
/, \'. _-' ,--,,,--'''
{ \ `_-'' ' /
`;;' ; ; ;
._..--'' ._,,, _..' .;.'
(,_....----''' (,..--''

Simon Brooke wrote:

[why Lance in TdF is boring]

You are not alone, here's a longish piece with similar thoughts

http://slate.msn.com/id/2121810/
--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, garryb59

('[email protected]') said:

..sometimes I see an anti-Armstrong sentiment being expressed here,
and that's fine we all have our views, but I'm definitely not one of
them, quite the contrary. The more I see him, and the more I can
understand about what's going on with this race, he's the one who's
setting the pace in all ways and everybody else is playing catch up.

Which is what makes it boring. He can also be a thoroughly unlikable
person at times - he is driven, ruthless, aggressive, and holds grudges.
Of course, this is part of what makes him such a supreme athlete, but it
doesn't win him many fans. Yes, he is (since he recovered from cancer) a
formidable athlete... and to be fair he seems to have mellowed a bit
this year (his gesture of not wanting to wear the yellow today seemed to
me quite uncharacteristically generous).

Actually he has been generous on many occasions. He has for example on
a breakaway with a teammate allowed him to win the stage. He is also
supposed to be personaly a generous guy.

His team show him loyalty above and beyond.. its usually a pointer.
You are right he does seem to be mellowing. But I dont think the
generosity is particulary relevent. I do agree he is not particulary a
nice guy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Personally, I hope he wins. Should be interesting anyway.

I don't really care either way whether he wins on the Champs Elysees, but
if the rest of the Tour simply becomes a procession with Armstrong
wearing the yellow all the rest of the way I'll be very disappointed.

And, you know, there are a lot of interesting and characterful riders in
the peloton who are worth supporting. I'm still shouting mainly for
Thomas Voekler, although unless he can sustain a break sometime before
Saturday he isn't realistically going to be able to do much more this
year. But look at Tom Boonen, who's carrying the green jersey as a
consequence of two utterly brilliant sprints and still manages to be
cheerful and good natured whenever he talks to the press (contrast
Robbie MacEwan, who is insufferably cocky when he wins and an
insufferable whinger when he doesn't);

Yeah Boonen seems a nice guy. Which means he can;t really be a sprinter
who are all arses 🙂. McEwan is absolutely an [censored]. Cannot
stand the guy. My flatmate hates him. Not all aussies are perfect 🙂
We send the ones we dont want to Europe.

or Erik Dekker who was the

Quoted message said:

powerhouse behind Monday's breakaway;

What a hero. Seriously.

or poor David Zabriskie who, if he

Quoted message said:

hadn't fallen, would probably still have the yellow jersey

Weird crash. The guessing here is that his knee hit his elbow.
Buggered if I can see that causing a crash.. a scarey moment yes..
Anyway he has my sympathy.

- and dozens

Quoted message said:

of others.

Frankly, the riders I like are the riders who lead breakaways, because
they make the race exciting and they're ultimately the only people who
can potentially take the race away from the big grinding efficient
engines of the big teams like Discovery. Although, having said that, if
you want to cheer for a team, CSC are punching far above their weight.

If you read aus.cycling there are a few people there with not much good
to say about CSC. Not that thats relevent to the cycling team. Still
it smacks just a little of cheering the Gestapo team on 🙂 (OK I know
thats an exageration.. but...)

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, garryb59

('[email protected]') said:

..sometimes I see an anti-Armstrong sentiment being expressed here,
and that's fine we all have our views, but I'm definitely not one of
them, quite the contrary. The more I see him, and the more I can
understand about what's going on with this race, he's the one who's
setting the pace in all ways and everybody else is playing catch up.

Which is what makes it boring. He can also be a thoroughly unlikable
person at times - he is driven, ruthless, aggressive, and holds grudges.
Of course, this is part of what makes him such a supreme athlete, but it
doesn't win him many fans.

And nobody else on the tour possesses these charateristics? Not that
I'm condoning them, but like he's the only one there who is capable of
this? Maybe he is, but I'd have thought that to even 'get' there in
the first place you need to be at the very, very least 'driven' and
even paritally aggressive, just as in any top level sporting activity.

Quoted message said:

Yes, he is (since he recovered from cancer) a
formidable athlete... and to be fair he seems to have mellowed a bit
this year (his gesture of not wanting to wear the yellow today seemed to
me quite uncharacteristically generous).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Personally, I hope he wins. Should be interesting anyway.

I don't really care either way whether he wins on the Champs Elysees, but
if the rest of the Tour simply becomes a procession with Armstrong
wearing the yellow all the rest of the way I'll be very disappointed.

Do you mean dissapointed in him, or disaapointed in the other
athletics who have failed to beat him? [Which they might of course
because it's early days yet]. If the tour is an 'Armstrong procession'
then I'd put that down to not only Armstrong strength but everybody
else failing to catch up, or having nay idea of how to beat him. He
can hardly be blamed for that. Ullrich says before the tour that he's
'really happy' that Armstrong has given him the chance to beat him one
more time, ok fine, but then he goes and loses a minute on the first
day! Fine. But now it's hard for him.

Quoted message said:

And, you know, there are a lot of interesting and characterful riders in
the peloton who are worth supporting. I'm still shouting mainly for
Thomas Voekler, although unless he can sustain a break sometime before
Saturday he isn't realistically going to be able to do much more this
year. But look at Tom Boonen, who's carrying the green jersey as a
consequence of two utterly brilliant sprints and still manages to be
cheerful and good natured whenever he talks to the press (contrast
Robbie MacEwan, who is insufferably cocky when he wins and an
insufferable whinger when he doesn't); or Erik Dekker who was the
powerhouse behind Monday's breakaway; or poor David Zabriskie who, if he
hadn't fallen, would probably still have the yellow jersey - and dozens
of others.

Sure of course, races within races, and many rivialries going on.

Quoted message said:

Frankly, the riders I like are the riders who lead breakaways, because
they make the race exciting and they're ultimately the only people who
can potentially take the race away from the big grinding efficient
engines of the big teams like Discovery.

I like the mountain breakaways too.

Quoted message said:

Although, having said that, if
you want to cheer for a team, CSC are punching far above their weight.

Anyway, no big deal, we differ in opinions, just like I thought :-)

Mind you, I'm more interested in my bike more than any of
theirs...time moves on.

Garry

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which is what makes it boring. He can also be a thoroughly unlikable
person at times - he is driven, ruthless, aggressive, and holds grudges.
Of course, this is part of what makes him such a supreme athlete, but it
doesn't win him many fans. Yes, he is (since he recovered from cancer) a
formidable athlete... and to be fair he seems to have mellowed a bit
this year (his gesture of not wanting to wear the yellow today seemed to
me quite uncharacteristically generous).

Couldn't have put it better. He is *totally* driven to win the TdF.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Personally, I hope he wins. Should be interesting anyway.

I don't really care either way whether he wins on the Champs Elysees, but
if the rest of the Tour simply becomes a procession with Armstrong
wearing the yellow all the rest of the way I'll be very disappointed.

Aye - as a spectator it's far more interesting to see a close battle between
riders rather than total dominance by one for so long. This does not mean
that I don't recognise the determination & ability of LA, but I much
preferred the battle between LeMond & Fignon...

Quoted message said:

And, you know, there are a lot of interesting and characterful riders in
the peloton who are worth supporting. I'm still shouting mainly for
Thomas Voekler, although unless he can sustain a break sometime before
Saturday he isn't realistically going to be able to do much more this
year. But look at Tom Boonen, who's carrying the green jersey as a
consequence of two utterly brilliant sprints and still manages to be
cheerful and good natured whenever he talks to the press (contrast
Robbie MacEwan, who is insufferably cocky when he wins and an
insufferable whinger when he doesn't); or Erik Dekker who was the
powerhouse behind Monday's breakaway; or poor David Zabriskie who, if he
hadn't fallen, would probably still have the yellow jersey - and dozens
of others.

I have a soft spot for Jens Voight. Not as pretty as Basso or Kloden, but a
darned good cyclist, a team player where the team becomes stronger than the
sum of its component parts, adn so far, seems a thoroughly nice bloke.

Quoted message said:

Frankly, the riders I like are the riders who lead breakaways, because
they make the race exciting and they're ultimately the only people who
can potentially take the race away from the big grinding efficient
engines of the big teams like Discovery. Although, having said that, if
you want to cheer for a team, CSC are punching far above their weight.

I like the ones who bring the excitement and as for CSC, I have a certian
teenage cyclist son who would just love to be riding for them!

Cheers, helen s

in message <[email hidden]>, garryb59

('[email protected]') said:

Simon Brooke said:

I don't really care either way whether he wins on the Champs Elysees,
but if the rest of the Tour simply becomes a procession with Armstrong
wearing the yellow all the rest of the way I'll be very disappointed.

Do you mean dissapointed in him, or disaapointed in the other
athletics who have failed to beat him? [Which they might of course
because it's early days yet]. If the tour is an 'Armstrong procession'
then I'd put that down to not only Armstrong strength but everybody
else failing to catch up, or having nay idea of how to beat him. He
can hardly be blamed for that. Ullrich says before the tour that he's
'really happy' that Armstrong has given him the chance to beat him one
more time, ok fine, but then he goes and loses a minute on the first
day! Fine. But now it's hard for him.

Ullrich was (past tense) put out of this tour by his crash the day before
the start. If you'd gone through the back window of a car at (allegedly)
60mph you wouldn't race very well on the day after, either. He hasn't
lost too much time to beat Armstrong, but he's riding in a team with
other stars and unless the whole team is pulling together with a common
goal they're unlikely to make an impact.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.

Simon Brooke said:

Ullrich was (past tense) put out of this tour by his crash the day before
the start. If you'd gone through the back window of a car at (allegedly)
60mph you wouldn't race very well on the day after, either. He hasn't
lost too much time to beat Armstrong, but he's riding in a team with
other stars and unless the whole team is pulling together with a common
goal they're unlikely to make an impact.

There's always an excuse made for not winning. Remind me what they were
for previous years.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Simon Brooke said:

Yes, he is (since he recovered from cancer) a formidable
athlete...

He was a formidable athlete before he had cancer. He had already won a
World Championship and had been a world class triathlete while still in
his teens.

--
Dave...

At Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:10:17 +0100, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by Tony B
<[email hidden]>, including some, all
or none of the following:

[ob. Mr Armstrong]

Quoted message said:

He is without doubt the world's second greatest cyclist.

Without doubt? Hmmmm.

Greatest rider in the history of the Tour? Probably.

Of course Eddy is the greatest ever.

But the second-greatest overall? There are a couple of others who
would arguably take that crown.

In the top five? For sure.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

in message <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy,

you know? (') said:

At Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:10:17 +0100, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by Tony B
<[email hidden]>, including some, all
or none of the following:

[ob. Mr Armstrong]

Quoted message said:

He is without doubt the world's second greatest cyclist.

Without doubt? Hmmmm.

Greatest rider in the history of the Tour? Probably.

Of course Eddy is the greatest ever.

That's what he said, if you had paid attention to the whole post.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Hobbit ringleader gives Sauron One in the Eye.

At Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:05:29 +0100, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by Simon
Brooke <[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of the
following:

Quoted message said:

That's what he said, if you had paid attention to the whole post.

I was taking issue with "without doubt the world's second greatest
cyclist". I think that is open to dispute.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Just zis Guy said:

I was taking issue with "without doubt the world's second greatest
cyclist". I think that is open to dispute.

Focussed on the tour or not, six straight wins is pretty good going. If
he makes a seventh then he takes the crown IMO.

Besides. He has singlehandedly raised the profile of the sport (Or one
race) by merit of having a great background story for the papers.

Jon