Machine Leg-Presses vs Squats (back injury)

Brian Link said:

Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
gym)

The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
squat or deadlift/good morning.

However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
barbell) again, at least right away..

Tonight I had a trainer-tot show me how to use the leg-press machine.
It's one where you slap weight plates on, semi recline and push the
weights. There's a little safety in the levers you can pull to catch
the weights.

At some point I'd read (prolly ExRx) that by varying foot-placement
one could get quads, glutes and hams conditioned from this type of
machine. Is this an acceptable replacement for squats and deadlifts
till I get my courage back? Which muscle group(s) loses out when doing
leg-presses without squats?

As a side note, it's gratifying that most of my other lifts - bench,
lat pulldowns, curls, Arnolds and 3-way crunches are coming back
pretty quickly. For those of you who've had back issues, you might
understand my nervousness about squats and deadlifts...

HOWEVER...

The leg press machine you are using can SEVERELY injure your lower
back. The position it puts you in...hyperflexed lower spine...is an
EXTREMELY WEAK postion for the back. You would be WAY better off, back
health wise, to do light weight, perfect form, squats, in a cage, and
work the weights on up.

David

Brian Link said:

Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
gym)

The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
squat or deadlift/good morning.

However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
barbell) again, at least right away..

Tonight I had a trainer-tot show me how to use the leg-press machine.
It's one where you slap weight plates on, semi recline and push the
weights. There's a little safety in the levers you can pull to catch
the weights.

At some point I'd read (prolly ExRx) that by varying foot-placement
one could get quads, glutes and hams conditioned from this type of
machine. Is this an acceptable replacement for squats and deadlifts
till I get my courage back? Which muscle group(s) loses out when doing
leg-presses without squats?

Make sure you can use the machine with your pelvis in a neutral position up
against the back rest all the time, otherwise you'll be putting a lot of
strain on your lower back. Then, you aren't going to be using core muscles
much (erectors, abs mainly) which you would in a squat, and you won't be
developing balance which you would squatting.

Peter

"Brian Link" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
gym)

The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
squat or deadlift/good morning.

However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
barbell) again, at least right away..

Tonight I had a trainer-tot show me how to use the leg-press machine.
It's one where you slap weight plates on, semi recline and push the
weights. There's a little safety in the levers you can pull to catch
the weights.

At some point I'd read (prolly ExRx) that by varying foot-placement
one could get quads, glutes and hams conditioned from this type of
machine. Is this an acceptable replacement for squats and deadlifts
till I get my courage back? Which muscle group(s) loses out when doing
leg-presses without squats?

As a side note, it's gratifying that most of my other lifts - bench,
lat pulldowns, curls, Arnolds and 3-way crunches are coming back
pretty quickly. For those of you who've had back issues, you might
understand my nervousness about squats and deadlifts...

Thanks as always for any info.

Have you considered front squats? You'll be using less weight and resting
the bar on your front deltoids which is probably more psychologically
comforting given your heebie-jeebies about back squats. Also, you'll
probably find it's easier to go low and maintain good positioning than with
back squats.

Quoting Brian Link:

Quoted message said:

The squat thing is just a stupid phobia, I guess. I just need to do
more of em and get over it, I think. I know it's a great lift - I'm
always amazed that even when lifting around 60% I really feel the burn
and get results. Before my layoff, I was actually able to see my
quads.

Consider using a box to help out with form and confidence level, and
progressively use lower boxes as you improve. I'm not necessarily
talking about box squatting in the true sense where one might pause,
but to have something behind you to touch to.

"Brian Link" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
gym)

The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
squat or deadlift/good morning.

However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
barbell) again, at least right away..

Tonight I had a trainer-tot show me how to use the leg-press machine.
It's one where you slap weight plates on, semi recline and push the
weights. There's a little safety in the levers you can pull to catch
the weights.

At some point I'd read (prolly ExRx) that by varying foot-placement
one could get quads, glutes and hams conditioned from this type of
machine. Is this an acceptable replacement for squats and deadlifts
till I get my courage back? Which muscle group(s) loses out when doing
leg-presses without squats?

As a side note, it's gratifying that most of my other lifts - bench,
lat pulldowns, curls, Arnolds and 3-way crunches are coming back
pretty quickly. For those of you who've had back issues, you might
understand my nervousness about squats and deadlifts...

Thanks as always for any info.

Deadlifting is different on the back than squatting is, and overall a
less technical lift. Have you considered deadlifting? In terms of
working the most muscles in your body at one time, the deadlift has the
squat beat. I've got back issues, and I consider the deadlift a big
part of the solution.

A few other thoughts:

Front squats are a great idea, but with a barbell, you need to have
mastered the rack position, which requires a certain amount of
flexibility in your wrists which I, for one, don't have. This is a
great place for kettlebells. You can front squat with a pair of heavy
dumbbells but the handles on a kettlebell make this a no-brainer. The
two kettlebell front squat is a great move and requires no rack - if you
can't get up, you just drop the kettlebells off to the side

Ironmind has a hip belt you can squat with - a tried and true way of
squatting when an injury prevents normal back squats.

As to the leg press machine, I quote Nancy Reagan: Just Say No.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Suze" <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoting Brian Link:

Quoted message said:

The squat thing is just a stupid phobia, I guess. I just need to do
more of em and get over it, I think. I know it's a great lift - I'm
always amazed that even when lifting around 60% I really feel the burn
and get results. Before my layoff, I was actually able to see my
quads.

Consider using a box to help out with form and confidence level, and
progressively use lower boxes as you improve. I'm not necessarily
talking about box squatting in the true sense where one might pause,
but to have something behind you to touch to.

No, no, no, no, no. Really bad advice for someone with back problems. Having
"something behind you to touch to" will cause a loss of muscle tension and
potential loss of proper spinal alignment. Which is a reasonable risk for a
competitive powerlifter with a healthy back who needs to train coming out of
the hole, but why, for Brian, I recommended light squats with "perfect
form".

David

On 15 Jul 2005 22:37:06 -0700, "David Cohen" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Brian Link said:

Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
gym)

The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
squat or deadlift/good morning.

However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
barbell) again, at least right away..

Tonight I had a trainer-tot show me how to use the leg-press machine.
It's one where you slap weight plates on, semi recline and push the
weights. There's a little safety in the levers you can pull to catch
the weights.

At some point I'd read (prolly ExRx) that by varying foot-placement
one could get quads, glutes and hams conditioned from this type of
machine. Is this an acceptable replacement for squats and deadlifts
till I get my courage back? Which muscle group(s) loses out when doing
leg-presses without squats?

As a side note, it's gratifying that most of my other lifts - bench,
lat pulldowns, curls, Arnolds and 3-way crunches are coming back
pretty quickly. For those of you who've had back issues, you might
understand my nervousness about squats and deadlifts...

HOWEVER...

The leg press machine you are using can SEVERELY injure your lower
back. The position it puts you in...hyperflexed lower spine...is an
EXTREMELY WEAK postion for the back. You would be WAY better off, back
health wise, to do light weight, perfect form, squats, in a cage, and
work the weights on up.

David

That is the "conventional wisdom" but how many people do you know who
have actually hurt their back on a leg press machine?

--
Is this thing on?

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 14:34:32 GMT, Joe Humble <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 15 Jul 2005 22:37:06 -0700, "David Cohen" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Brian Link said:

Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
gym)

The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
squat or deadlift/good morning.

However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
barbell) again, at least right away..

Tonight I had a trainer-tot show me how to use the leg-press machine.
It's one where you slap weight plates on, semi recline and push the
weights. There's a little safety in the levers you can pull to catch
the weights.

At some point I'd read (prolly ExRx) that by varying foot-placement
one could get quads, glutes and hams conditioned from this type of
machine. Is this an acceptable replacement for squats and deadlifts
till I get my courage back? Which muscle group(s) loses out when doing
leg-presses without squats?

As a side note, it's gratifying that most of my other lifts - bench,
lat pulldowns, curls, Arnolds and 3-way crunches are coming back
pretty quickly. For those of you who've had back issues, you might
understand my nervousness about squats and deadlifts...

HOWEVER...

The leg press machine you are using can SEVERELY injure your lower
back. The position it puts you in...hyperflexed lower spine...is an
EXTREMELY WEAK postion for the back. You would be WAY better off, back
health wise, to do light weight, perfect form, squats, in a cage, and
work the weights on up.

David

That is the "conventional wisdom" but how many people do you know who
have actually hurt their back on a leg press machine?

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Any real numbers here or just
hot air? If no real numbers, then who would be the best to ask for
unbiased experience...professional physical therapists, maybe? One of
these guys was walking through our gym the other day with a rehab
client and pointed out to me how I had wrong positioning on a lat
machine.

Admittedly, one has to be careful overdoing the weight on leg
extension machines and rotary torso ones, but I cannot recall ever
seeing or hearing of anyone here injured nor myself, using the leg
press machine, even with a full stack. A very useful machine for
calves also, IMO.

G.B.

"Joe Humble" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

David Cohen said:

Brian Link said:

Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
gym)

The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
squat or deadlift/good morning.

However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
barbell) again, at least right away..

Tonight I had a trainer-tot show me how to use the leg-press machine.
It's one where you slap weight plates on, semi recline and push the
weights. There's a little safety in the levers you can pull to catch
the weights.

At some point I'd read (prolly ExRx) that by varying foot-placement
one could get quads, glutes and hams conditioned from this type of
machine. Is this an acceptable replacement for squats and deadlifts
till I get my courage back? Which muscle group(s) loses out when doing
leg-presses without squats?

As a side note, it's gratifying that most of my other lifts - bench,
lat pulldowns, curls, Arnolds and 3-way crunches are coming back
pretty quickly. For those of you who've had back issues, you might
understand my nervousness about squats and deadlifts...

HOWEVER...

The leg press machine you are using can SEVERELY injure your lower
back. The position it puts you in...hyperflexed lower spine...is an
EXTREMELY WEAK postion for the back. You would be WAY better off, back
health wise, to do light weight, perfect form, squats, in a cage, and
work the weights on up.

David

That is the "conventional wisdom" but how many people do you know who
have actually hurt their back on a leg press machine?

YO! Present.

And I am the classic victim: chronic low back problems + ego = exacerbation
of chronic condition. Brian is now in my category, with a history of low
back problems. The leg press machine is an bad thing waiting to happen to
him.

Of course, as a Democrat, he has no ego problem.

David

"Geezer Boy" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Joe Humble said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]>wrote:

Quoted message said:

Brian Link wrote:
> Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
> I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
> of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
> space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
> gym)
>
> The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
> squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
> involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
> squat or deadlift/good morning.
>
> However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
> knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
> barbell) again, at least right away..
>
> Tonight I had a trainer-tot show me how to use the leg-press machine.
> It's one where you slap weight plates on, semi recline and push the
> weights. There's a little safety in the levers you can pull to catch
> the weights.
>
> At some point I'd read (prolly ExRx) that by varying foot-placement
> one could get quads, glutes and hams conditioned from this type of
> machine. Is this an acceptable replacement for squats and deadlifts
> till I get my courage back? Which muscle group(s) loses out when doing
> leg-presses without squats?
>
> As a side note, it's gratifying that most of my other lifts - bench,
> lat pulldowns, curls, Arnolds and 3-way crunches are coming back
> pretty quickly. For those of you who've had back issues, you might
> understand my nervousness about squats and deadlifts...

HOWEVER...

The leg press machine you are using can SEVERELY injure your lower
back. The position it puts you in...hyperflexed lower spine...is an
EXTREMELY WEAK postion for the back. You would be WAY better off, back
health wise, to do light weight, perfect form, squats, in a cage, and
work the weights on up.

David

That is the "conventional wisdom" but how many people do you know who
have actually hurt their back on a leg press machine?

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Any real numbers here or just
hot air? If no real numbers, then who would be the best to ask for
unbiased experience...professional physical therapists, maybe? One of
these guys was walking through our gym the other day with a rehab
client and pointed out to me how I had wrong positioning on a lat
machine.

Admittedly, one has to be careful overdoing the weight on leg
extension machines and rotary torso ones, but I cannot recall ever
seeing or hearing of anyone here injured nor myself, using the leg
press machine, even with a full stack.

Tell <<joni>> I said "hi".

David

Steve Freides said:

"Brian Link" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
gym)

The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
squat or deadlift/good morning.

However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
barbell) again, at least right away..

Tonight I had a trainer-tot show me how to use the leg-press machine.
It's one where you slap weight plates on, semi recline and push the
weights. There's a little safety in the levers you can pull to catch
the weights.

At some point I'd read (prolly ExRx) that by varying foot-placement
one could get quads, glutes and hams conditioned from this type of
machine. Is this an acceptable replacement for squats and deadlifts
till I get my courage back? Which muscle group(s) loses out when doing
leg-presses without squats?

As a side note, it's gratifying that most of my other lifts - bench,
lat pulldowns, curls, Arnolds and 3-way crunches are coming back
pretty quickly. For those of you who've had back issues, you might
understand my nervousness about squats and deadlifts...

Thanks as always for any info.

Deadlifting is different on the back than squatting is, and overall a
less technical lift. Have you considered deadlifting? In terms of
working the most muscles in your body at one time, the deadlift has the
squat beat. I've got back issues, and I consider the deadlift a big
part of the solution.

I'm not giving Brian advice on what to do. That's up to him and his
doctor.

I just want to say that a trap bar DL is more like a squat than a
deadlift and works the back less and the legs more. 25 lb plates
instead of 45s stress the legs even more.

Quoted message said:

A few other thoughts:

Front squats are a great idea, but with a barbell, you need to have
mastered the rack position, which requires a certain amount of
flexibility in your wrists which I, for one, don't have. This is a
great place for kettlebells. You can front squat with a pair of heavy
dumbbells but the handles on a kettlebell make this a no-brainer. The
two kettlebell front squat is a great move and requires no rack - if you
can't get up, you just drop the kettlebells off to the side

I use a plastic gizmo called the StingRay to do BB FSs. I think it's
around $40
http://www.bodytrends.com/afisting.htm
(I didn't check the price at this site.)

There's also a FS harness for about $200
http://www.better-body.com/zstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11

KBs are comfortable in the rack position. Of course, you've got to
buy two 88 lbers to get to 176 pounds. And you've got to master
cleaning them (as in getting them to the rack position).

Quoted message said:

Ironmind has a hip belt you can squat with - a tried and true way of
squatting when an injury prevents normal back squats.

I have this thing. One day I may use it.

Quoted message said:

As to the leg press machine, I quote Nancy Reagan: Just Say No.

Except for doing negative accentuated foot extensions.

There may (or may not be) good reasons for Brian to do leg presses at
this time. If he does them, he shouldn't expect meaningful carryover
to the squat and he shouldn't bring his knees too close to his chest
(unless he wants to risk disc herniation).

Quoted message said:

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Brian Link said:

Since I'm getting back into things after a 3-month layoff, I thought
I'd try some different leg exercises. Mostly cause I'm scared as [censored]
of having a bunch of weight on my shoulders and just hanging out in
space with the lift. (hard to get a training partner or spotters at my
gym)

So no squat rack or cage, right?

Quoted message said:

The gospel I've received from this group and other sources is that
squats are king. This of course makes common sense, since the squat
involves pretty much the whole body. Stabilizers are all in play in a
squat or deadlift/good morning.

However, since the aforementioned layoff was precipitated by back and
knee injuries, I'm nervous about trying the squat (free-weight,
barbell) again, at least right away..

Consider what holds the hips against the back support when you
bring the legs down.

Start doing deadlifts and hack squats light.

Brian Link said:

The squat thing is just a stupid phobia, I guess. I just need to do
more of em and get over it, I think. I know it's a great lift - I'm
always amazed that even when lifting around 60% I really feel the burn
and get results. Before my layoff, I was actually able to see my
quads.

Mistress Krista gave me some great advice that I'm going to pass along:
deliberately dump the bar in the cage. Get in the hole and dump the
load. You'll fall backwards on your butt, there'll be a loud CLANG and
everyone will turn to look at you and maybe mutter derisively. And
that's it. Worst case, a bit of wounded pride. And as David correctly
pointed out, as a Democrat you aren't burdened by excessive ego
problems. This will work.

I never trusted myself to lift heavy until I did this exercise. Now I
know I can just dump the load if it doesn't work, so why not try it?

Quoted message said:

Just have to forget that picture of a guy with a compound fracture
underneath a failed squat.. brrr

This is an example of confusing relative risks. You're more likely to
be hit by a car on your way to the gym.

HTH

Dally

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:53:55 -0400, Dally <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

Brian Link said:

The squat thing is just a stupid phobia, I guess. I just need to do
more of em and get over it, I think. I know it's a great lift - I'm
always amazed that even when lifting around 60% I really feel the burn
and get results. Before my layoff, I was actually able to see my
quads.

Mistress Krista gave me some great advice that I'm going to pass along:
deliberately dump the bar in the cage. Get in the hole and dump the
load. You'll fall backwards on your butt, there'll be a loud CLANG and
everyone will turn to look at you and maybe mutter derisively. And
that's it. Worst case, a bit of wounded pride. And as David correctly
pointed out, as a Democrat you aren't burdened by excessive ego
problems. This will work.

I never trusted myself to lift heavy until I did this exercise. Now I
know I can just dump the load if it doesn't work, so why not try it?

Quoted message said:

Just have to forget that picture of a guy with a compound fracture
underneath a failed squat.. brrr

This is an example of confusing relative risks. You're more likely to
be hit by a car on your way to the gym.

HTH

I think that's [censored] advice. It's a good way to bend the bar. Why
not just use spotters and learn how to stay with the load? You also
run the risk of being thrown out of your gym. You would certainly be
warned if you intentionally dumped a squat in a competition and could
possibly hurt yourself and your spotters.

"John Hanson" wrote

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:53:55 -0400, Dally <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

Brian Link said:

The squat thing is just a stupid phobia, I guess. I just need to do
more of em and get over it, I think. I know it's a great lift - I'm
always amazed that even when lifting around 60% I really feel the burn
and get results. Before my layoff, I was actually able to see my
quads.

Mistress Krista gave me some great advice that I'm going to pass along:
deliberately dump the bar in the cage. Get in the hole and dump the
load. You'll fall backwards on your butt, there'll be a loud CLANG and
everyone will turn to look at you and maybe mutter derisively. And
that's it. Worst case, a bit of wounded pride. And as David correctly
pointed out, as a Democrat you aren't burdened by excessive ego
problems. This will work.

I never trusted myself to lift heavy until I did this exercise. Now I
know I can just dump the load if it doesn't work, so why not try it?

Quoted message said:

Just have to forget that picture of a guy with a compound fracture
underneath a failed squat.. brrr

This is an example of confusing relative risks. You're more likely to
be hit by a car on your way to the gym.

HTH

I think that's [censored] advice. It's a good way to bend the bar. Why
not just use spotters and learn how to stay with the load? You also
run the risk of being thrown out of your gym. You would certainly be
warned if you intentionally dumped a squat in a competition and could
possibly hurt yourself and your spotters.

Not to worry John,

Dally is too much of a wimp to lift anything heavy enough to bend the bar.
🙂

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Brian Link said:

The squat thing is just a stupid phobia, I guess. I just need to do
more of em and get over it, I think. I know it's a great lift - I'm
always amazed that even when lifting around 60% I really feel the burn
and get results. Before my layoff, I was actually able to see my
quads.

Mistress Krista gave me some great advice that I'm going to pass along:
deliberately dump the bar in the cage. Get in the hole and dump the load.
You'll fall backwards on your butt, there'll be a loud CLANG and everyone
will turn to look at you and maybe mutter derisively. And that's it.
Worst case, a bit of wounded pride. And as David correctly pointed out,
as a Democrat you aren't burdened by excessive ego problems. This will
work.

I never trusted myself to lift heavy until I did this exercise. Now I
know I can just dump the load if it doesn't work, so why not try it?

Quoted message said:

Just have to forget that picture of a guy with a compound fracture
underneath a failed squat.. brrr

This is an example of confusing relative risks. You're more likely to be
hit by a car on your way to the gym.

Yeah Brian, if a liberal, wimp woe-man can do it, why can't you?

Lee Michaels said:

"John Hanson" wrote

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:53:55 -0400, Dally <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

Brian Link wrote:

>The squat thing is just a stupid phobia, I guess. I just need to do
>more of em and get over it, I think. I know it's a great lift - I'm
>always amazed that even when lifting around 60% I really feel the burn
>and get results. Before my layoff, I was actually able to see my
>quads.

Mistress Krista gave me some great advice that I'm going to pass along:
deliberately dump the bar in the cage. Get in the hole and dump the
load. You'll fall backwards on your butt, there'll be a loud CLANG and
everyone will turn to look at you and maybe mutter derisively. And
that's it. Worst case, a bit of wounded pride. And as David correctly
pointed out, as a Democrat you aren't burdened by excessive ego
problems. This will work.

I never trusted myself to lift heavy until I did this exercise. Now I
know I can just dump the load if it doesn't work, so why not try it?

I think that's [censored] advice. It's a good way to bend the bar. Why
not just use spotters and learn how to stay with the load? You also
run the risk of being thrown out of your gym. You would certainly be
warned if you intentionally dumped a squat in a competition and could
possibly hurt yourself and your spotters.

Not to worry John,

Dally is too much of a wimp to lift anything heavy enough to bend the bar.
🙂

Gee, Lee, thanks for the "defense".

Hanson, I don't recommend doing it in competition; that was never the
subject. I recommend doing it for a guy who is scared to squat in the
gym.

You're right, though: I was not giving adequate attention to defense of
the bar.

Dally

"Dally" confessed

Quoted message said:

Lee Michaels said:

"John Hanson" wrote

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:53:55 -0400, Dally <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>Brian Link wrote:
>
>
>>The squat thing is just a stupid phobia, I guess. I just need to do
>>more of em and get over it, I think. I know it's a great lift - I'm
>>always amazed that even when lifting around 60% I really feel the burn
>>and get results. Before my layoff, I was actually able to see my
>>quads.
>
>Mistress Krista gave me some great advice that I'm going to pass along:
>deliberately dump the bar in the cage. Get in the hole and dump the
>load. You'll fall backwards on your butt, there'll be a loud CLANG and
>everyone will turn to look at you and maybe mutter derisively. And
>that's it. Worst case, a bit of wounded pride. And as David correctly
>pointed out, as a Democrat you aren't burdened by excessive ego
>problems. This will work.
>
>I never trusted myself to lift heavy until I did this exercise. Now I
>know I can just dump the load if it doesn't work, so why not try it?
>
I think that's [censored] advice. It's a good way to bend the bar. Why
not just use spotters and learn how to stay with the load? You also
run the risk of being thrown out of your gym. You would certainly be
warned if you intentionally dumped a squat in a competition and could
possibly hurt yourself and your spotters.

Not to worry John,

Dally is too much of a wimp to lift anything heavy enough to bend the
bar. 🙂

Gee, Lee, thanks for the "defense".

Hanson, I don't recommend doing it in competition; that was never the
subject. I recommend doing it for a guy who is scared to squat in the
gym.

You're right, though: I was not giving adequate attention to defense of
the bar.

You need to attend a meeting of the BAA (Bar Abusers Anonymous) group to
determine if you have a problem and get the help that you so obviously need.

I myself attend the Pointy Stick Abusers Group (PSAG). It hasn't helped
much though. <G>

Quoting David Cohen:

Quoted message said:

No, no, no, no, no. Really bad advice for someone with back problems.
Having "something behind you to touch to" will cause a loss of muscle
tension and potential loss of proper spinal alignment.

I completely glossed over the part about the bad back (even though
it's in the thread title - d'oh!), and instead honed in on the part
where he was talking about confidence issues.

Thanks for the correction.