This is what I call cross training

Adam Hodges Myerson wrote in message ...

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in article [email hidden], Wade Summers at [email hidden] wrote on
12/23/02 5:18 PM:

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I follow cross fairly closely. I don't know who those riders were. They

are

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not cross specialists. Nothing against them, they could be very good regional riders for all I
know. But that is all they are. Lance is a

world

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class professional. Perhaps you remember those 4 Tour de France

victories...

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I consider Will Black a 'cross specialist, and a good rider. Consistent top-30/20 SuperCup-type
guy. Probably the best Texas 'cross rider.

Adam

OK. But are any of them the caliber of rider that Lance is? The argument that the course was not
skills based enough doesn't work given the competition. A fair comparison would be against riders
like Wellens, Groenendaal, Declerq and Nys.

I think Lance is the best cross rider in Texas...

Wade

Adam Hodges Myerson said:

in article [email hidden], Wade Summers at [email hidden] wrote on
12/23/02 5:18 PM:

Quoted message said:

I follow cross fairly closely. I don't know who those riders were. They are not cross specialists.
Nothing against them, they could be very good regional riders for all I know. But that is all they
are. Lance is a world class professional. Perhaps you remember those 4 Tour de France victories...

I consider Will Black a 'cross specialist, and a good rider. Consistent top-30/20 SuperCup-type
guy. Probably the best Texas 'cross rider.

Must be because of his mtn bike experience.

Greg

--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late, the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons

"Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

in article [email hidden], Wade Summers at [email hidden] wrote on
12/23/02 5:18 PM:

Quoted message said:

I follow cross fairly closely. I don't know who those riders were. They

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not cross specialists. Nothing against them, they could be very good regional riders for all I
know. But that is all they are. Lance is a

world

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

class professional. Perhaps you remember those 4 Tour de France

victories...

Quoted message said:

I consider Will Black a 'cross specialist, and a good rider. Consistent top-30/20 SuperCup-type
guy. Probably the best Texas 'cross rider.

Except for Lance? Lance can also easily out-run these guys.

-Ken

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Adam

in article [email hidden], Wade Summers at [email hidden] wrote on
12/26/02 7:35 PM:

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And promoters should design courses with cyclocross bikes in mind because it is a cyclocross race
not a mountain bike race. The difference is quite dramatic - riding a mountain bike over rough
terrain and riding a cyclocross bike over the same terrain. Stuff that wouldn't even phase you on
a mtb with wide tires and suspension can be down right dangerous on a cross bike. If you want to
do a mountain bike race go do a mountain bike race. It is a different sport. Remember cyclocross
has it roots in road racing and came along long before mountain bikes were even thought of.

Interesting that the UCI Web site in talking about Cross racing points out the main difference
between Cross racing and Mt. bike racing is the rules dealing with Tech support

"Where cyclo-cross and mountain bike racing differ in ideology is in-race technical support. In
mountain biking, the rider must be fully self-sufficient to carry out in-race repair work should his
machine malfunction. In contrast, a cyclo-cross racer is allowed to use up to three bicycles in a
race. Since this is a winter sport and the tracks are often very muddy, a clean cyclo-cross bike can
weigh in excess of 10kg less than a muddy one!"

In talking aobut what a Cross course is like the UCI web site says

"For a start cyclo-cross is a winter-time sport. Woodland trails, open meadows, and short, steep
hills are the main features of a cyclo-cross course. Normally the circuit is in the region of
2.5-3km, and the race duration around one hour."

Casey

One of those Team Diabetic guys (Jason?) was the one who had a faster bike split than Lance in the
Dirty Duathlon recently. STF

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PnMN9.283810$pN3.22007@sccrnsc03...

Quoted message said:

"Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I consider Will Black a 'cross specialist, and a good rider. Consistent top-30/20 SuperCup-type
guy. Probably the best Texas 'cross rider.

Except for Lance? Lance can also easily out-run these guys.

That's what I'm talking about. Running and cycling fast are Lance's strengths and cyclocross is
supposed to be about technique. Does anyone think that Lance had better technique through the
dismounts than Will?

"casey Kerrigan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"For a start cyclo-cross is a winter-time sport. Woodland trails, open meadows, and short, steep
hills are the main features of a cyclo-cross course. Normally the circuit is in the region of
2.5-3km, and the race duration around one hour."

And the complaints I have is that a "woodland trail" isn't 3 meters wide and I'd hate to rnu a 3
meterwide track through an open meadow.

I like Connelly's suggestion about loosing wild dogs on the circuit. That's the kind of thing that
we used to laugh about in club motorcycle racing.

I don't know about you Wade, but my guess is that you aren't going to earn a living racing bicycles
any time soon. So why not have circuits that are not laid out with an eye towards copying last years
Worlds circuit?

Casey, when you were racing it was a lot more relaxed wasn't it? Or did everyone take it serious
then (I mean besides Clark.)

BTW, the people that put on the University Crit on UC Berkeley Campus back in the 70's showed me a
program from the '75 version and two names that sprung out were Clark Natwick and Tom Simonson. I'm
trying to picture Tom in racing trim. (try.......try..........try............)

casey Kerrigan said:

"For a start cyclo-cross is a winter-time sport

Interesting as well that the only winter cyclocross in the US is, AFAIK, in Texas.

Dan

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PnMN9.283810$pN3.22007@sccrnsc03...

Quoted message said:

"Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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I consider Will Black a 'cross specialist, and a good rider.

Consistent

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top-30/20 SuperCup-type guy. Probably the best Texas 'cross rider.

Except for Lance? Lance can also easily out-run these guys.

That's what I'm talking about. Running and cycling fast are Lance's strengths and cyclocross is
supposed to be about technique. Does anyone think that Lance had better technique through the
dismounts than Will?

At the top level (Europe) the differentiator is usually power. They all have good technique.

Tom Kunich wrote in message ...

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"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PnMN9.283810$pN3.22007@sccrnsc03...

Quoted message said:

"Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I consider Will Black a 'cross specialist, and a good rider. Consistent top-30/20 SuperCup-type
guy. Probably the best Texas 'cross rider.

Except for Lance? Lance can also easily out-run these guys.

That's what I'm talking about. Running and cycling fast are Lance's strengths and cyclocross is
supposed to be about technique. Does anyone think that Lance had better technique through the
dismounts than Will?

I think cyclocross is about the a combination of skills, including cross technique, running and
riding ability. If it was all about technique they wouldn't bother racing, they would just have a
cross technique competition, like mtb trials riding.

Wade

in article [email hidden], Dan Connelly at [email hidden] wrote on 12/27/02 2:19 AM:

Quoted message said:

casey Kerrigan said:

"For a start cyclo-cross is a winter-time sport

Interesting as well that the only winter cyclocross in the US is, AFAIK, in Texas.

Dan

Central Coast is having a Cross race in actual winter ( and generally their last race of the season
has been in winter).

Casey

in article [email hidden], Tom Kunich at
[email hidden] wrote on 12/26/02 9:16 PM:

Quoted message said:

Casey, when you were racing it was a lot more relaxed wasn't it? Or did everyone take it serious
then (I mean besides Clark.)

The whole sport ( road, track and Cross) was much more relaxed. Once "real money" started making
it's way into the prizelists then things changed people started taking themselves and their racing
way to seriously.

Casey

"Wade Summers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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I think cyclocross is about the a combination of skills, including cross technique, running and
riding ability. If it was all about technique they wouldn't bother racing, they would just have a
cross technique competition, like mtb trials riding.

So what do you think a cyclocross race is?

casey Kerrigan said:

Quoted message said:

Interesting as well that the only winter cyclocross in the US is, AFAIK, in Texas.

Dan

Central Coast is having a Cross race in actual winter ( and generally their last race of the
season has been in winter).

OTOH, with the road season starting 11 days after the solstice (leading to the onset of rider
burnout by the equinox....), there just isn't much time for "winter" sports 🙂.

Dan

Tom Kunich said:

"Wade Summers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I think cyclocross is about the a combination of skills, including cross technique, running and
riding ability. If it was all about technique they wouldn't bother racing, they would just have a
cross technique competition, like mtb trials riding.

So what do you think a cyclocross race is?

Is that a trick question?

Greg
--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late, the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FJOO9.467279$WL3.125174@rwcrnsc54...

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"Danny Callen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mEHO9.516930$NH2.33940@sccrnsc01...

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> > Danny Callen

I think you sent off the deep end on such a trivial deal as the numbers on front of the
bikes., Heck it's better than having to pin them to your jersey!!

-Ken

Oh Ken my freind you have been in California with those high Homeowners premiums WAY too long!
Time to come East and learn the Cyclocross thang!

Danny Callen

I recently visited Boston, Cambridge, Braintree, Norwood, Canton, and Stoughton. I cannot forget
Newton either.

Saw a lot of pricey homes there too increasing in value (esp. Canton).

Good racing!

-Ken

Shoukd have come for a visit! I wouldn't live in any of those areas for all the tea ioin China! New
Hampshire is where it's at!!

Danny Callen

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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That's the problem Greg. I remember reading those people who wanted to get rid of mountain bikes
on the course so they started designing courses without any extended climbs where the MTB's would
have an advantage. They they wanted to get rid of steep, rough drops that would give the MTB's an
advantage. And then any rough terrain at all that would give MTB's an advantage.

So the courses are all going to become vanilla, BMX courses with a run-up, three barriers 2 meters
apart, 3 meters wide over the entire course, a mud pit and a section of pavement. And where ever
you go you'll be able to ride the same course with different scenary around the course boundaries.

I suppose that if you fancy yourself a professional you prefer it that way since you'll never get
any surprises.

I'm sorry Tom but this has got to b be the dumbest posts I have ever read in my entire RBR life. You
discussing Cyclocross courses is similar to me discussing brain surgery. I'm really suprised that
anyone even waste their time replying to these kinds of posts. I think Adam is correct, you are the
ulti mate troller and have everyone fooled.

Danny Callen