The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

Blair P. Houghton said:

Turns out I'd mis-measured my rear stays and they're only
124 mm. The frame is made of steel. It's reinforced by the
brake mount, so it doesn't flex much the way I need it to.
No way am I bending this frame, and I really don't want to
have anyone else do it either.

I'd reconsider if I were you. I guarantee you that whoever built your
frame bent it at least that much just to put it in its original state.

If it hasn't been deeply corroded internally, it will move again
without damage. If it has been so corroded, better to find out now
than somewhere out on the road.

I have no less than four bikes at home-- all but one of my factory-made
steel frames-- that have been bent to a wider spacing. I've had no
problems as a result of this.

Chalo Colina

Chalo is right. Ive got three bikes with 124-126 mm spacing running 9
speeds. No problems. Go ahead and spread the frame slightly and run 9
speed.

I agree with Chalo - I just cold-set a 126mm frame (which is what I
suspect yours is, if it was 6 speed)to 130 without issue, also with a
braced seatstay. It was a little bit of grunting, and that's it.

Works beautifully.

Unless this is a big bucks frame, i vote that you do it yourself. if
it's big bucks, I vote that you bring it to a shop & have them do it
for you.
Good luck.
-A.

Blair P. Houghton said:

I got my new wheels. Neuvation M28 Aeros. Cheap, but well
reviewed.

I got a new cassette because moving from 6 to 9 speeds was
part of the justification for the new wheels (the old cogs
are on a freewheel and it's a bit eccentric).

I got a new chain because of the new 9-speed, and a spare
one.

I got new tires and tubes because these are 700C wheels and
my old ones are 27-inch.

I got a cassette tool and a chain whip (in case I had to
remove the cassette once I had it installed).

I got rim tape.

I put the cassette on the wheels, put a tube and tire on
the rear wheel, pumped it up, listened to it blow off,
removed it, put a new tube in, pumped it up, and then put a
tube and tire on the front without incident. The one that
blew must have been defective, because I double-checked
the bead after I set it, and the others aren't showing
any signs of weakness.

I racked my bike, removed its wheels, broke the chain, put
the new front wheel on, and went to put the rear on.

Um.

The new rear hub is 130 mm wide.

Turns out I'd mis-measured my rear stays and they're only
124 mm. The frame is made of steel. It's reinforced by the
brake mount, so it doesn't flex much the way I need it to.
No way am I bending this frame, and I really don't want to
have anyone else do it either.

So I'm kinda screwed at this point.

I can't put this wheel on this frame. The front fits fine.

I can't use a 130-mm rear. And if I switch the hub out,
I'll probably not be able to use a 9-speed cassette.

Dammit.

How did I measure that wrong? I used a caliper and it's way
the hell off. Maybe I measured the front and assumed...

Dammit.

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT.

And now I can't ride tomorrow because I broke the chain and
I don't have a replacement pin for it...

Maybe the new chain will work. It has a split link, so I
can afford to try it. It might slip between the cogs,
though. And I'll need to lube it, if not strip and lube
it...

Or I can pull my MTB off its hook and go ride in South
Mountain Park.

Dammit dammit dammit.

I wanted to be on my new, lighter, smoother, truer, aero
wheels.

Dammit.

Spreading a steel frame a few mm should be fine.

The bigger problem you need to worry about are your brakes. You are
moving from a 27" (630mm rim) to a 700c (622mm rim). Your braking
surfaces will be 4mm further out. Can you brakes reach that additional
4mm? That is usually the biggest issue converting old frames like
that.

- rick

Blair P. Houghton said:

Turns out I'd mis-measured my rear stays and they're only
124 mm. The frame is made of steel. It's reinforced by the
brake mount, so it doesn't flex much the way I need it to.
No way am I bending this frame, and I really don't want to
have anyone else do it either.

Quoted message said:

--Blair

Why not? What brand of frame is it?

Really 4-6mm is not a lot of bending.

No surprise here, Sheldon has the info needed, take a look:
http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

My vote is for respacing.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Blair P. Houghton said:

Maybe the new chain will work. It has a split link, so I
can afford to try it. It might slip between the cogs,
though. And I'll need to lube it, if not strip and lube

If the chain is new it has already been lubricated at the factory,
likely better than you would do it. Just mount it as is, at most wipe
off some of the excess with a rag, and go.g

I've been told by several wrenches that the factory lube on chains,
while smooth, is also extremely short-lived. Personally, I've had brand
new bikes show rust on the chain within a week of bringing them home,
after one or two short rides in the rain.

In the late summer, though, you could probably get away with it.

-Lennon

Blair P. Houghton said:

Turns out I'd mis-measured my rear stays and they're only
124 mm. The frame is made of steel. It's reinforced by the
brake mount, so it doesn't flex much the way I need it to.
No way am I bending this frame, and I really don't want to
have anyone else do it either.

I'll pile on here, and say you should definitely bend the frame. Space
those dropouts to where you need them.

I did this about two months ago to a friend's old bike, and I've done
one of mine. In my case, there must be 15,000 miles on it since I
spread it.

Only caveat I'd mention: Be sure to align the newly-spread dropouts so
they're exactly parallel and nicely lined up. An easy way to check is
to use two long screws as ersatz half-axles. Add washers (if
necessary) and nuts. Screw them to the dropouts so the heads are
outside, the nuts are against the insides of the dropouts, & the screws
point toward each other. Tweak the dropouts as necessary.

It's easy.

- Frank Krygowski

Blair P. Houghton said:

I got my new wheels.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

The new rear hub is 130 mm wide.
Turns out I'd mis-measured my rear stays and they're only
124 mm. The frame is made of steel. It's reinforced by the
brake mount, so it doesn't flex much the way I need it to.
No way am I bending this frame, and I really don't want to
have anyone else do it either.
So I'm kinda screwed at this point.
I can't put this wheel on this frame. The front fits fine.

-snip-
Lay your frame without wheel flat on the ground. Put your
foot on the frame end. Lift the other one with both hands
until it stays at 130mm. Go ride. Sometime when it's
convenient, have the alignment checked.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Rick said:

Spreading a steel frame a few mm should be fine.

If it was a beater or a new bike, I'd consider it good exercise.

But this is my Holdsworth.

One slip, and 22 years of history, maybe 40k miles, dumped
on the junk-heap.

I'd rather find a solution that narrows the rear axle.

I talked to a wrench at the Supergo. He said to check for
spacers, and maybe Neuvation would have axels for slimmer
spacings (I remeasured; it's really 126 mm...amazing
how just 2 mm of flex per stay is near impossible to get
without some permanent bending...)

I'll even go down to an 8-speed or 7-speed rear setup, if
that's what I need to do. The 9-speed will be really close
against the right lug, and my not clear the chainstay,
which doesn't have the ogee that newer frames have. Though
the lug is pretty long, so maybe the clearance will only be
a problem during installation.

But to keep the wheel centered without causing severe
dishing problems I might have to lose a cog. No biggie.
The hard part would be losing the right cog. I could
lose the 12T, but I'd rather lose the 25T, but of course
it's pinned to the 23T and 21T, for no really good reason.

Quoted message said:

The bigger problem you need to worry about are your brakes. You are
moving from a 27" (630mm rim) to a 700c (622mm rim). Your braking
surfaces will be 4mm further out. Can you brakes reach that additional
4mm? That is usually the biggest issue converting old frames like
that.

I saw that coming months before I even decided to change
wheelsets. The calipers did have an extra 4 mm of float
left in them, so it was merely an adjustment. I've left
the new front wheel on and test-ridden it around the
cul-de-sac. Once the pads get used to the new surface,
it'll be just fine.

I also put on the new chain, and if anything it shifts
cleaner than the old one. I don't know if it's as strong,
being a narrower 9-speed, and it uses the SRAM split-link
connector, which looks a bit flimsy.

--Blair
"Maybe if I ground 4 mm out of the lugs..."

41 said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

Maybe the new chain will work. It has a split link, so I
can afford to try it. It might slip between the cogs,
though. And I'll need to lube it, if not strip and lube

If the chain is new it has already been lubricated at the factory,
likely better than you would do it. Just mount it as is, at most wipe
off some of the excess with a rag, and go.g

The factory "lube" was stickier than any chain lube I've
ever seen.

It's a SRAM, if that tells you anything about what they
might have put on it.

Too bad I didn't read your recommendation, because I've already
stripped it off. It was impervious to an orange-oil degreaser,
so I had to break out the petroleum distillates.

I'm riding Saturday.

I'll either wax it Friday, or try out the 80W-90 Gear Oil
I got for my motorcycle chain, just to see what it does.

I can always clean it again.

--Blair
"Life is what happens while
you're busy making other plans
from the vantage point of your
bicycle seat."

Andrew Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

I got my new wheels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The new rear hub is 130 mm wide.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Turns out I'd mis-measured my rear stays and they're only 124 mm.
The frame is made of steel. It's reinforced by the brake mount, so
it doesn't flex much the way I need it to. No way am I bending
this frame, and I really don't want to have anyone else do it
either. So I'm kinda screwed at this point. I can't put this
wheel on this frame. The front fits fine.

Quoted message said:

Lay your frame without wheel flat on the ground. Put your foot on
the frame end. Lift the other one with both hands until it stays at
130mm. Go ride. Sometime when it's convenient, have the alignment
checked.

Let me add to that to place your foot at the brake bridge of the side
on the floor and pull up on the dropout that is upward with care,
noting when spacing has increased by about half the distance. Then
repeat on the other side. Overshoot isn't good.

At this point the dropouts are no longer parallel (if they ever were)
but the angle is smaller than you want to know about.

Jobst Brandt

Blair P. Houghton said:

41 <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If the chain is new it has already been lubricated at the factory,
likely better than you would do it. Just mount it as is, at most wipe
off some of the excess with a rag, and go.g

The factory "lube" was stickier than any chain lube I've
ever seen.

It's a SRAM, if that tells you anything about what they
might have put on it.

Yes, that's the brand I use. The lubrication is perfect.

The reason chainlubes you buy are not so thick is because you couldn't
get them in to where they are needed if they were. The chain
manufacturer can get it in at the time of assembly, and so can make it
ideal.

Quoted message said:

Too bad I didn't read your recommendation, because I've already
stripped it off. It was impervious to an orange-oil degreaser,
so I had to break out the petroleum distillates.

As you can see this is why it is so good. If it takes that much to get
it off, it won't wash off easily in the rain either.

Well, now that you 've worked so hard to get it off, use the
heavyweight gear oil as you suggested. Just be sure to wipe off the
excess thoroughly or your drivetrain will be throwing the stuff off for
too long.

How about this one... Buy a new bike.
6 speed freewheels were common equipment like what, 15 years ago? Face
it dude, you're due. Instead, you dropped coin on cheap carbon wheels
that still cost a bit, cogs chains, and now you have to butcher your
frame to make it all work. You could have stepped out and bought a
good cheap (1k-1200) on an end of season sale and been way ahead.
Likely would have even got some nice clipless pedals on it if you were
choosy. But then you wouldn't get to listen to guys telling you the
proper way to step on your frame to make it wider... (ummm alignment
table??)

Blair P. Houghton said:

Rick said:

Spreading a steel frame a few mm should be fine.

If it was a beater or a new bike, I'd consider it good exercise.

But this is my Holdsworth.

One slip, and 22 years of history, maybe 40k miles, dumped
on the junk-heap.

A professional would not slip. A good professional will use a frame
jig, spread gently, make sure it is all aligned.

Quoted message said:

I'd rather find a solution that narrows the rear axle.

I talked to a wrench at the Supergo. He said to check for
spacers, and maybe Neuvation would have axels for slimmer
spacings (I remeasured; it's really 126 mm...amazing
how just 2 mm of flex per stay is near impossible to get
without some permanent bending...)

That's odd. We do near that much spreading all the time. A lot of
folks have some of the newer bikes that are spaced at 132.5, right
between 130 and 135. Allows one to use either sized wheel. We are
considering re-spacing a classic bike with 126 spacing to 128 so we can
use 126 or 130 alternatively. Anyway, when we install a 135mm spaced
wheel on a wheel with 132.5 spacing we have to pull out a minimum of
2.5mm. I know of folks running 130 on 126 spaced frames; I prefer not
to as it is more work to mount the wheel, and I like it easy if I have
to fix a flat on the road :-)

Quoted message said:

I'll even go down to an 8-speed or 7-speed rear setup, if
that's what I need to do. The 9-speed will be really close
against the right lug, and my not clear the chainstay,
which doesn't have the ogee that newer frames have. Though
the lug is pretty long, so maybe the clearance will only be
a problem during installation.

I suspect you will need to go to 7sp cassette shell.

Quoted message said:

I also put on the new chain, and if anything it shifts
cleaner than the old one. I don't know if it's as strong,
being a narrower 9-speed, and it uses the SRAM split-link
connector, which looks a bit flimsy.

I put many thousands of miles per year on those narrow 9sp chains with
connectors (SRAM and Wippermann). Never had a problem, and that
includes loaded touring up really big hills (Alps, Dolomites,
Pyrenees). If those chains can work for me, I doubt you can give them
any more punishment.

- rick

<snip tale of woe about improper measurement>

Spreading the chain stays from 126 to 130 is just not that big a deal on a
good steel frame. Actually you don't even have to have the dropouts spread,
just use a little more muscle when you install the back wheel. That's what I
do on my '88 Marinoni and my '86 Stumpjumper, both of which are decent
quality frames. One of the reasons steel is such a wonderful frame material
is that it is very forgiving of this kind of treatment, unlike aluminum or
carbon fiber.
--
mark

mark said:

Actually you don't even have to have the dropouts spread,
just use a little more muscle when you install the back wheel. That's what I
do on my '88 Marinoni and my '86 Stumpjumper,

Ditto. '86 Marinoni came 126mm and I just put 130mm 8 speed hub in.
No problem.

JT

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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mark said:

Actually you don't even have to have the dropouts spread,
just use a little more muscle when you install the back wheel. That's what
I
do on my '88 Marinoni and my '86 Stumpjumper,

Ditto. '86 Marinoni came 126mm and I just put 130mm 8 speed hub in.
No problem.

I'll add to the dogpile. I had my '75 Peugeot PX-10 spread from 120 to 130.
I now have 9-speed ergopower on it and love the bike more than ever.

-HW

Quoted message said:

Actually you don't even have to have the dropouts spread,
just use a little more muscle when you install the back wheel.

Ditto to this. My frame is a vintage 1990 hand-built Reynolds 531.
Bullet-proof. A little elbow grease, and a 2004 9-speed rear wheel fits
right in.