SFAs are bad for you because they are Solid at Body Temp

Very few SFAs are solid at body temperature - only the very long chain
ones. What this Nature Boy doesn't know would fill a set of
encyclopedia. I cite the evidence, and if you want to believe in a rat
study from 1930 that is undeniably not science (since all the vitamins
were not known then, nor proper controls used), then go right ahead.
The most saturated substance in nature is coconut oil, and it melts
right in your hand within a few seconds! And how do you explain the
nearly non-existant rates of "chronic disease" among "primitive"
peoples on diets very high in coconut oil. I've cited the evidence, as
well as the hypotheses with which to incorporate the data, giving
credit to Denham Harman as the first to make a strong statement about
the role of oxidative stress in "disease." Your "plumbing" hypothesis
is no longer believed in except by the most ignorant people on the
planet. Recently, Richard Stein, M.D., spokesman for the AHA, stated
clearly that only oxidized cholesterol is dangerous. But consider
this, I've been packing my body with saturated fatty acids for about 4
years now. How long does it take for this "clog" to occur? I have
intentionally eaten huge amounts of it. I am a 40 year old male, which
is about the age a lot of men drop dead of such "clogs." I've read
obits in the local papers of that happening to men several years
younger than myself. If you are correct, I should not be writing this
now!

My sense is that Nature Boy doesn't have much of a life. He just wants
to antagonize. He doesn't understand the scientific method. I
remember I once cited a major nutritional textbook about how short and
medium chain saturated fatty acids are metabolized differently than
others, but he wouldn't believe it, even though there is no scientific
debate on this topic. It is basic physiology. But again, I have a
feeling that he's very lonely, and if I can help him by posting this, I
guess I might as well. We should all do a good deed now and then,
though I prefer to stick to the science.

"montygram" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Very few SFAs are solid at body temperature - only the very long chain
ones. What this Nature Boy doesn't know would fill a set of

wrong.

The most common saturated fatty acids in nature are somewhere around 16 or
18 carbons in chain length.
http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtualText/lipids.htm#fatacid

Why do you think to people have to hydrogenate unsaturated fatty acids to
make margarine? Because its fluid when the fatty acids are not saturated
artificially.

Quoted message said:

encyclopedia. I cite the evidence, and if you want to believe in a rat
study from 1930 that is undeniably not science (since all the vitamins

Welcome to the year 2005. You might want to update on the literature a litte
a few things changed since 1930.

Quoted message said:

were not known then, nor proper controls used), then go right ahead.
The most saturated substance in nature is coconut oil, and it melts
right in your hand within a few seconds! And how do you explain the

Coconut oil has mostly short chain and medium chain fatty acids, those have
a lower melting point than longer chain ones.

Quoted message said:

nearly non-existant rates of "chronic disease" among "primitive"
peoples on diets very high in coconut oil. I've cited the evidence, as
well as the hypotheses with which to incorporate the data, giving
credit to Denham Harman as the first to make a strong statement about
the role of oxidative stress in "disease." Your "plumbing" hypothesis
is no longer believed in except by the most ignorant people on the
planet. Recently, Richard Stein, M.D., spokesman for the AHA, stated
clearly that only oxidized cholesterol is dangerous. But consider
this, I've been packing my body with saturated fatty acids for about 4
years now. How long does it take for this "clog" to occur? I have
intentionally eaten huge amounts of it. I am a 40 year old male, which
is about the age a lot of men drop dead of such "clogs." I've read
obits in the local papers of that happening to men several years
younger than myself. If you are correct, I should not be writing this
now!

My sense is that Nature Boy doesn't have much of a life. He just wants
to antagonize. He doesn't understand the scientific method. I

Neither do you, as you are a single person and constantly try to make a
point with the fact that you are still alive.
Statistics and proper controls ARE part of scientific method.

Quoted message said:

remember I once cited a major nutritional textbook about how short and
medium chain saturated fatty acids are metabolized differently than
others, but he wouldn't believe it, even though there is no scientific
debate on this topic. It is basic physiology. But again, I have a
feeling that he's very lonely, and if I can help him by posting this, I
guess I might as well. We should all do a good deed now and then,
though I prefer to stick to the science.

You don't accept this either because its was stated numerous times that
coconut oil isn't an ordinary saturated fat like any other.. its an MCT/SCT
fat - there are not so many MCT fats out there.. yet you still use the
general term "saturated fatty acids" when you try to make a point.

Quoted message said:

mechanism. That solid [censored] is very effective at clogging up plumbing.
And,
your arteries ain't much different from pipes when it comes to dealing
with
[censored].

Sorry, but this is total bulshit. Any article that tries to compare
arteries to pipes just showcases stupidity of author.

Quoted message said:

A phospholipid composed of a saturated fat or trans fatty acid differs
considerably in structure from a phosholipid composed of an essential
fatty

Perhaps. Anyway, the source of VLDL composed of saturated fat is high-GL
carbohydrates.

Learn some basics before making conclusions.

Mirek

MMu said:

Coconut oil has mostly short chain and medium chain fatty acids, those have
a lower melting point than longer chain ones.

You don't accept this either because its was stated numerous times that
coconut oil isn't an ordinary saturated fat like any other.. its an MCT/SCT
fat - there are not so many MCT fats out there.. yet you still use the
general term "saturated fatty acids" when you try to make a point.

When might one use coconut oil, anyhow?

Are you going to pour coconut oil onto a salad?

Are you going to pour coconut oil onto a baked potato?

The only possible use for coconut oil is for popping some very greasy
tasting popcorn and for frying foods.

As I have stated numerous times before, frying food is a very unhealthy
way to cook period. You certainly never want to deep fry anything like
French fries. Deep fry a food, and you will end up getting a huge hit
of fat for no good reason. If nothing else, it will cause you to gain
weight. Nor should you ever want to use a frying pan. Those still hung
up on frying foods are at the very, very, very early stages of working
on their health. And, they have a lot yet to learn about being
healthy.

Healthy foods are baked and they are broiled. If you don't want to
broil, meat can be grilled. There are many, many types of meat
grillers available to choose from. Should I dare mention that meat
should never be the centerpiece of any meal?

Basically, you have to be a total health idiot to fry anything. Ergo,
coconut oil is a product without a health market.

Just my opinion, but I am right as usual.

Mirek Fidler said:

Quoted message said:

mechanism. That solid [censored] is very effective at clogging up plumbing.
And, your arteries ain't much different from pipes when it comes to
dealing with [censored].

Sorry, but this is total bulshit. Any article that tries to compare
arteries to pipes just showcases stupidity of author.

I operationally proved my point back in 2000. 🙁
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian/msg/31c7a0f02de35733

Sorry, but you loose again big time. 🙁

Just my opinion, but I am NEVER wrong.

montygram said:

Very few SFAs are solid at body temperature - only the very long chain
ones. What this Nature Boy doesn't know would fill a set of
encyclopedia. I cite the evidence, ....

Can you say beef suet, Montygram?
http://www.askthemeatman.com/photo_beef_suet.htm

Ever bought a steak, succulent and well-marbled with fat, Montygram?
http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/health/Food_Guide/Rib_Eye_Steak.htm
See that white stuff in the picture, Montygram? That well known form
of fat happens to be a solid at body temperature. It is called basic
science.

How about ground beef and hamburger? Is beef not usually ground up
with solid white fat in order to make the product cost less? That fat,
Montygram, happens to be solid at body temperature.

Perhaps Montygram likes to shoot himself up with coconut oil, but the
world loves beef that is well-marbled with fat that remains solid at
body temperature.

Just my opinion, but the Nature Boy just whooped your ass, yet again. 🙂

montygram said:

I am a 40 year old male, which
is about the age a lot of men drop dead of such "clogs."

I am a 55 year old male, and I have yet to drop dead, too.

It is a small world after all. Now, go drown yourself in coconut oil.
Olive oil tastes a hell of a lot better and is a hell of a lot
healthier for you.

Just thought that you might want to know that frying food, is for the
little people at the very bottom of the health ladder.

Just my opinion, but I was right in June 2000, and I am right in the
year 2005.

Just thought that you might want to know, yet again. 🙂

Mr-Natural-Health said:

Mirek Fidler said:

Quoted message said:

mechanism. That solid [censored] is very effective at clogging up plumbing.
And, your arteries ain't much different from pipes when it comes to
dealing with [censored].

Sorry, but this is total bulshit. Any article that tries to compare
arteries to pipes just showcases stupidity of author.

I operationally proved my point back in 2000. 🙁
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian/msg/31c7a0f02de35733

How is that related?

Yes, your blood was full of chylomicrons. And?

BTW, I would bet that there was much more PUFA from vegetable oil used
to fry that chicken than SFA from chicken itself.

I guess you also was close to truth there:

Quoted message said:

If anything is amazing, it is that a human can survive at all after

eating

Quoted message said:

fried chicken.

That is it. You cannot apply your plumbering experience to the human
body. We are well adapted to burn all kinds of nutrients, that is why
our arteries are not clogging because of chylomicrons. In fact arteries
developed to transport material to places where it is needed (like heart
muscle).

If you still insist on your "solid [censored]" theory, you should better
explain first why it is arteries with largest diameter that get glogged
first....

Mirek

Mirek Fidler said:

Quoted message said:

mechanism. That solid [censored] is very effective at clogging up plumbing.
And,
your arteries ain't much different from pipes when it comes to dealing
with
[censored].

Sorry, but this is total bulshit. Any article that tries to compare
arteries to pipes just showcases stupidity of author.

Quoted message said:

A phospholipid composed of a saturated fat or trans fatty acid differs
considerably in structure from a phosholipid composed of an essential
fatty

Perhaps. Anyway, the source of VLDL composed of saturated fat is high-GL
carbohydrates.

Learn some basics before making conclusions.

Mirek

I agree. If saturated fat clogs arteries like [censored] clogs pipes, then
the arteries would clog up at squeeze points, at places where the
arteries narrow, like in the veins and capillaries. Why do the
capillaries not clog up first? In fact the area that seems to clog up
all the time is the coronary arteries. Why is that? It makes no sense
that sat fat would only clog these while not clogging other vessels
long before.

High carb diets (constant high blood glucose levels) and the subsequent
malnutrition (especially vitamin C deficiency and resulting poor
collagen formation) combine to cause the coronary arteries (and all
blood vessels) to become weakened. The coronary arteries are unique
because of the constant work they do and the constant movement of the
organ. The coronary artery walls become weakened where vessel wall
strength is most vital to continued function. The body tries to fix the
weakened vessels by depositing fatty deposits that eventually turns to
plaque. So if the coronary artery walls don't physically blow out
first, they will eventually fill with plaque. Hence they get clogged.

TC

"Mr-Natural-Health" <[email hidden]> wrote
in part:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but you loose again big time. 🙁

Just my opinion, but I am NEVER wrong.

Maybe he's loose and you're tight.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA [email hidden]

Mirek Fidler said:

If you still insist on your "solid [censored]" theory, you should better
explain first why it is arteries with largest diameter that get glogged
first....

Fools are a time a dozen ... Ever hear of PAD? I would expect that
your body grows new ones to replace the clogged capillaries.

Try reading the second half of my first post. The one about SFAs
clogging up cell membranes. I would suggest that cell membranes go
long before your largest diameter arteries are impassable.

Mr-Natural-Health said:

Mirek Fidler said:

If you still insist on your "solid [censored]" theory, you should better
explain first why it is arteries with largest diameter that get glogged
first....

Fools are a time a dozen ... Ever hear of PAD? I would expect that
your body grows new ones to replace the clogged capillaries.

Try reading the second half of my first post. The one about SFAs
clogging up cell membranes. I would suggest that cell membranes go
long before your largest diameter arteries are impassable.

You still believe in cell membranes? How about Santa and the Easter
Bunny?

TC

TC said:

I agree. If saturated fat clogs arteries like [censored] clogs pipes, then
the arteries would clog up at squeeze points, at places where the
arteries narrow, like in the veins and capillaries. Why do the
capillaries not clog up first?

Perhaps if you were to concentrate, TC?

SFAs are bad for you because they are Solid at Body Temp.

And, who says they don't?

Mr-Natural-Health said:

TC said:

I agree. If saturated fat clogs arteries like [censored] clogs pipes, then
the arteries would clog up at squeeze points, at places where the
arteries narrow, like in the veins and capillaries. Why do the
capillaries not clog up first?

Perhaps if you were to concentrate, TC?

SFAs are bad for you because they are Solid at Body Temp.

And, who says they don't?

so are proteins and many carbs.

tc

Mr-Natural-Health said:

TC said:

I agree. If saturated fat clogs arteries like [censored] clogs pipes, then
the arteries would clog up at squeeze points, at places where the
arteries narrow, like in the veins and capillaries. Why do the
capillaries not clog up first?

Perhaps if you were to concentrate, TC?

SFAs are bad for you because they are Solid at Body Temp.

And, who says they don't?

If capillaries clogged up from sat fat in the diet we would see huge
numbers and incidences of impeded bloodflow to tissues, necrosis and
gangrene way before the coronary arteries would even begin to fill up.

TC

TC said:

If capillaries clogged up from sat fat in the diet we would see huge
numbers and incidences of impeded bloodflow to tissues, necrosis and
gangrene way before the coronary arteries would even begin to fill up.

I think that if you had a brain in your head, you wouldn't be living on
this ng.

Just my opinion, but I am right once again.

You have my condolences.

Mr-Natural-Health said:

TC said:

If capillaries clogged up from sat fat in the diet we would see huge
numbers and incidences of impeded bloodflow to tissues, necrosis and
gangrene way before the coronary arteries would even begin to fill up.

I think that if you had a brain in your head, you wouldn't be living on
this ng.

Just my opinion, but I am right once again.

You have my condolences.

Ad hominem. That means you've lost the argument and can't come up with
a useful response. You can't come up with any logical argument and you
can't explain why capillaries don't clog up first from the sat fat that
is supposedly solid at body temperature. Your "theory" is dust in the
wind. Or should I say a fart in a storm. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny
and It stinks. And you consider yourself expert enough in the field to
write a health website.!?!? Ignorant jackass.

TC

TC said:

Ad hominem. That means you've lost the argument and can't come up with
a useful response. You can't come up with any logical argument and you
can't explain why capillaries don't clog up first from the sat fat that
is supposedly solid at body temperature.

First of all, my real theory is that TC is a total basket case.

What is your problem? Can you not concentrate? Or, don't you know how
to read?

I said that that they are. Obviously, they are clogging up randomly.
And, that the body is growing new ones to replace the old clogged ones.
I wrote this before: 1) it is happening, and 2) the body is growing new
ones.

Try reading dumb-ass!

Mr-Natural-Health said:

TC said:

Ad hominem. That means you've lost the argument and can't come up with
a useful response. You can't come up with any logical argument and you
can't explain why capillaries don't clog up first from the sat fat that
is supposedly solid at body temperature.

First of all, my real theory is that TC is a total basket case.

What is your problem? Can you not concentrate? Or, don't you know how
to read?

I said that that they are. Obviously, they are clogging up randomly.
And, that the body is growing new ones to replace the old clogged ones.
I wrote this before: 1) it is happening, and 2) the body is growing new
ones.

Try reading dumb-ass!

If there is enough sat fat to clog up the coronary arteries, the
capillaries should *all* be completely clogged long before the coronary
arteries get even started towards being clogged. The narrower the
capillaries the more clogged they would be. The smaller vessels would
clog up before any other. And by the time the larger vessles clogged
up, the smaller vessels would be completely blocked. There would be
nothing random about which vessels clog first. The smaller diameter
ones would be clogged first.

Your theory is ludicrous. Do you have any empirical data? Do you have
any proof other than your feeble claims? Do you have any photos from
post mortems showing clogged coronary arteries as well as clogged
capillaries? Why do people with clogged coronary arteries and heart
bypass operations not also all have massive blood flow problems from
clogged capillaries? If they did they would all be swollen and blue in
the areas where the capillaries are clogged. Those areas where the
capillaries are clogged would be in advanced stages of necrosis from
lack of blood flow in the capillaries.

Why are the capillaries spared from being completely clogged when the
much larger coronary arteries get clogged? Do you have empirical proof
that new capillaries are being formed as old ones get clogged? And to
what degree does this happen? Less than 1% of capillaries get clogged
and replaced?, more than 1%?, 10%?, 20%?????? When one reaches the
point when one needs a quadruple bypass due to clogged coronary
arteries, approx how much of ones capillaries would be clogged and
replaced by new capillaries? 10%, 20%, 90%????

Your theory..... Just your opinion, and you are wrong as usual.

TC