William Wallace's Funeral, 700 years late

MountainPro said:

Today marks the 700 year anniversary of the death of William Wallace. It was today in 1305 he was taken to London, dragged through the streets for 6 miles, hung, drawn and quartered.

Experts say that Scotland would be just another region of England today if Wallace did not rebel against the tyrant Edward Plantagenet, Hammer of the Scots, and his brutal armies.

Across from Westminster, the place of Wallace's execution, there is a church service to mark the sadness of the day.

It is good that i can write this an know that most people across the world will know who i was talking about although most picture him looking like a certain hollywood actor.

Wallace was, in contrast to Gibson, a giant of a man, able to weild the claymore (a massive two handed battle sword) with a single hand cutting his enemies in two with a single blow.

Anyway, i thought i would mention this as every Scot will be thinking how grateful they are to have had a saviour like him...

For 700 years he has been a symbol of Scotland's resistance to oppression and injustice and has been the foundations of many great nations today.

I've read a little about him and know a little more than the movie portrays.
He was undoubtedly one bad a**ed individual with great conviction.
I hope he found his peace long ago.

MountainPro said:

Today marks the 700 year anniversary of the death of William Wallace. It was today in 1305 he was taken to London, dragged through the streets for 6 miles, hung, drawn and quartered.

Experts say that Scotland would be just another region of England today if Wallace did not rebel against the tyrant Edward Plantagenet, Hammer of the Scots, and his brutal armies.

Across from Westminster, the place of Wallace's execution, there is a church service to mark the sadness of the day.

It is good that i can write this an know that most people across the world will know who i was talking about although most picture him looking like a certain hollywood actor.

Wallace was, in contrast to Gibson, a giant of a man, able to weild the claymore (a massive two handed battle sword) with a single hand cutting his enemies in two with a single blow.

Anyway, i thought i would mention this as every Scot will be thinking how grateful they are to have had a saviour like him...

For 700 years he has been a symbol of Scotland's resistance to oppression and injustice and has been the foundations of many great nations today.

I was always under the assumption that Braveheart very accurately portrayed this man and his resolve. I heard that many Scotts were very pleased with the movie...Did I hear wrong?

Regardless, Celebrating a day where one man inspired a nation is a cause for drinking... 🙂

MountainPro said:

Today marks the 700 year anniversary of the death of William Wallace. It was today in 1305 he was taken to London, dragged through the streets for 6 miles, hung, drawn and quartered.

Experts say that Scotland would be just another region of England today if Wallace did not rebel against the tyrant Edward Plantagenet, Hammer of the Scots, and his brutal armies.

Across from Westminster, the place of Wallace's execution, there is a church service to mark the sadness of the day.

It is good that i can write this an know that most people across the world will know who i was talking about although most picture him looking like a certain hollywood actor.

Wallace was, in contrast to Gibson, a giant of a man, able to weild the claymore (a massive two handed battle sword) with a single hand cutting his enemies in two with a single blow.

Anyway, i thought i would mention this as every Scot will be thinking how grateful they are to have had a saviour like him...

For 700 years he has been a symbol of Scotland's resistance to oppression and injustice and has been the foundations of many great nations today.

Whatever the inaccuracies of the movie, the emotional connection of a people struggling to free themselves of a brutal oppressor is what remains years after the movie was popular.

Unfortunately though, Scotland is still seen by many outsiders to be another region of England. England and UK are almost synonymous terms over here, at least in a political sense.

jaguar75 said:

I was always under the assumption that Braveheart very accurately portrayed this man and his resolve. I heard that many Scotts were very pleased with the movie...Did I hear wrong?

Regardless, Celebrating a day where one man inspired a nation is a cause for drinking... 🙂

How could they make a movie about Scotland's greatest hero and not find roles for some of Scotland's greatest actors? Where were Sean Connery,Billy Connolly,Robert Carlysle and Ewen McGregor ?
As a movie,Rob Roy is much better. At least they had a bloody Celt in the leading role.

stevebaby said:

How could they make a movie about Scotland's greatest hero and not find roles for some of Scotland's greatest actors? Where were Sean Connery,Billy Connolly,Robert Carlysle and Ewen McGregor ?
As a movie,Rob Roy is much better. At least they had a bloody Celt in the leading role.

Mel Gibson is a white Aussie so there is a 99% chance he is either of Irish or Scots extraction.

There could have been a lot worse people to play (and direct) the role. I think the lethal weapon films gave him a trashy reputation but he is a good actor.

Jaguar, its difficult so say if there are any discrepancies between the film and the actual events, but the intervention of Irish gallowglasses fighting the English on Scottish soil in some kind of 'kindred' pact is pure fantasy.

Irelands main enemy up until now were the Norse, not the English.

The depiction of Wallace's death apparently was very accurate however and the puhisnshment for treason was to be hanged until dead, disembowled and dismembered into 4 parts. In Wallace's case they decided to take all his body parts to the 4 corners of the kingdom, thats how afraid they were of this man in the age of witchcraft...

He was tried and convicted for treason. He wasnt English and Scotland wasnt officially part of England either...this is the injustice.

Some nationalists are calling for Blair to appologise...which of course is absurd.

DiabloScott said:

Whatever the inaccuracies of the movie, the emotional connection of a people struggling to free themselves of a brutal oppressor is what remains years after the movie was popular.

Unfortunately though, Scotland is still seen by many outsiders to be another region of England. England and UK are almost synonymous terms over here, at least in a political sense.

true, i am oney of the only people in this country that think Gibson did a good job of the role, very emotional...

i have had a few conversations with americans who have asked, 'okay, whats the difference between the UK, Britian, England, Ireland and Scotland...i just dont get it'

its complicated stuff...with a lot of history attached, best told on a stormy evening infront of a roaring fire with a large single malt in your hand and a few hours to spare...

Mel Gibson is American. His family moved out here when he was about ten I think.

William Wallace like a lot of scotts fought many battles over centuries against the English for the right of man to wear skirts! :-)

ward17 said:

Mel Gibson is American. His family moved out here when he was about ten I think.

William Wallace like a lot of scotts fought many battles over centuries against the English for the right of man to wear skirts! :-)

He was born in New York and raised in Australia and "is" mostly likely of Scot/Irish heritage.
So you may make your own decision who may claim him.
It was a damn good movie either way.

ward17 said:

Mel Gibson is American. His family moved out here when he was about ten I think.

William Wallace like a lot of scotts fought many battles over centuries against the English for the right of man to wear skirts! :-)

i thought he was an Aussie, my bad...

nice witty joke btw, dont plan any trips to Glasgow in the near future now will you...

MountainPro said:

Mel Gibson is a white Aussie so there is a 99% chance he is either of Irish or Scots extraction.

There could have been a lot worse people to play (and direct) the role. I think the lethal weapon films gave him a trashy reputation but he is a good actor.

Jaguar, its difficult so say if there are any discrepancies between the film and the actual events, but the intervention of Irish gallowglasses fighting the English on Scottish soil in some kind of 'kindred' pact is pure fantasy.

Irelands main enemy up until now were the Norse, not the English.

The depiction of Wallace's death apparently was very accurate however and the puhisnshment for treason was to be hanged until dead, disembowled and dismembered into 4 parts. In Wallace's case they decided to take all his body parts to the 4 corners of the kingdom, thats how afraid they were of this man in the age of witchcraft...

He was tried and convicted for treason. He wasnt English and Scotland wasnt officially part of England either...this is the injustice.

Some nationalists are calling for Blair to appologise...which of course is absurd.

When traitors were "hanged, drawn and quartered" , they were only hanged until unconscious,then they were let down,disembowelled,genitals removed and "quartered"i.e chopped into 4 pieces etc.The film is very accurate and realistic in this regard,probably why I don't watch it when it's repeated on tv.
Blah has a lot to apologise for,but as a Scot himself it would be pretty pointless. A Scot apologising to Scots for the perfidy of sassenachs 700 years ago? Silly.

stevebaby said:

When traitors were "hanged, drawn and quartered" , they were only hanged until unconscious,then they were let down,disembowelled,genitals removed and "quartered"i.e chopped into 4 pieces etc.The film is very accurate and realistic in this regard,probably why I don't watch it when it's repeated on tv.
Blah has a lot to apologise for,but as a Scot himself it would be pretty pointless. A Scot apologising to Scots for the perfidy of sassenachs 700 years ago? Silly.

yes, Blair is a Scot, but if anyone should apligose it should be the queen, after all it was the monarchy that put the price on Wallaces head, not parliment because there was none as such...

I have been reading your thread regarding the 700 years memeorial for William Wallace. And feel a few points need to be cleared up.

1. Can you post a reference to where " some nationalists are calling on Blair to apologise"?

I am a Scottish Nationalist in the sense that what I want is Scotland to play a full and independant role on the world stage. Not as some "region" of the United Kingdom/England as some people appear to regard both as the same thing.

2. Braveheart was a very entertaining film but in no way should be treated as historically accurate no more so than say Titanic or Saving Private Ryan. The film went as far as to show the Battle of Stirling Bridge without (A) A bridge or even a rive and (B) Sir Andrew De Moray. Moray probably had as much influence in winning the battle than Wallace did.

Now to the march itself. I was fortunate to enough to be invited to both the service and the evenings events. I say fortunate because The Priory Church of St Bartholomew The Great in Smithfield can only hold 300 and thousands wished to attend. The church itself was completed in 1132 so would have been there on the day of Wallace's judicial murder. It was probably the last building he saw.

The days events were so emotionally charged that I have never seen so many grown men cry ( apart from maybe some recent Scotland football results😉 )

Anyway during the first march from Westminster Hall to the Tower of London and on up to St Bartholomews I was stopped by many people asking what the event was, when I explained the enquirers showed a genuine interest and wished us well. This was not an antagonistic walk but was what I hope will become part of the healing process and that our nations can learn to live as neighbours in friendship but as seperate nations. It is not impossible we did it for 300 years leading up to the death of Alexander III and the wars of independance.

The church service would take to long to describe suffice to say it is still very raw in my mind and I do not want to soak my keyboard with tears.

The second march from the church to evening events was even more spectacular being led by a pipe band and escorted by mounted police and outriders. The police did a fantastic job in stopping the traffic. The motorists were most patient and were in good humour. Many people were at their windows with cameras videos and waving etc.

What I am trying to say is that there was no aggression and only good humour during my time down in London for these events and for this I thank both the participants and the people of London.

Blackearnside said:

1. Can you post a reference to where " some nationalists are calling on Blair to apologise"?

By capitalising the word 'Nationalist' i assume you mean you are a member of the SNP, which is what i was referring to.

Sandra White, an SNP MSP, said the Scottish Executive should ask Westminster to apologise for the act.
"I think an apology should be issued for the appalling way in which William Wallace was treated - hung, drawn and quartered - all those years ago," she told a meeting of Holyrood’s public petitions committee.

read more >> news.scotsman.compolitics.cfmOpen ↗

MSP - Member of the Scottish Parliment
SNP - Scottish National Party (for the benefit of our international forum members)

Blackearnside said:

I am a Scottish Nationalist in the sense that what I want is Scotland to play a full and independant role on the world stage. Not as some "region" of the United Kingdom/England as some people appear to regard both as the same thing.

2. Braveheart was a very entertaining film but in no way should be treated as historically accurate no more so than say Titanic or Saving Private Ryan. The film went as far as to show the Battle of Stirling Bridge without (A) A bridge or even a rive and (B) Sir Andrew De Moray. Moray probably had as much influence in winning the battle than Wallace did.

Now to the march itself. I was fortunate to enough to be invited to both the service and the evenings events. I say fortunate because The Priory Church of St Bartholomew The Great in Smithfield can only hold 300 and thousands wished to attend. The church itself was completed in 1132 so would have been there on the day of Wallace's judicial murder. It was probably the last building he saw.

The days events were so emotionally charged that I have never seen so many grown men cry ( apart from maybe some recent Scotland football results😉 )

Anyway during the first march from Westminster Hall to the Tower of London and on up to St Bartholomews I was stopped by many people asking what the event was, when I explained the enquirers showed a genuine interest and wished us well. This was not an antagonistic walk but was what I hope will become part of the healing process and that our nations can learn to live as neighbours in friendship but as seperate nations. It is not impossible we did it for 300 years leading up to the death of Alexander III and the wars of independance.

The church service would take to long to describe suffice to say it is still very raw in my mind and I do not want to soak my keyboard with tears.

The second march from the church to evening events was even more spectacular being led by a pipe band and escorted by mounted police and outriders. The police did a fantastic job in stopping the traffic. The motorists were most patient and were in good humour. Many people were at their windows with cameras videos and waving etc.

What I am trying to say is that there was no aggression and only good humour during my time down in London for these events and for this I thank both the participants and the people of London.

youre a lucky man...wish i had been there, i dont hold anything against the English, thats why i said that an apology is absurd...

MountainPro said:

By capitalising the word 'Nationalist' i assume you mean you are a member of the SNP, which is what i was referring to.

Sandra White, an SNP MSP, said the Scottish Executive should ask Westminster to apologise for the act.
"I think an apology should be issued for the appalling way in which William Wallace was treated - hung, drawn and quartered - all those years ago," she told a meeting of Holyrood’s public petitions committee.

read more >> news.scotsman.compolitics.cfmOpen ↗

MSP - Member of the Scottish Parliment
SNP - Scottish National Party (for the benefit of our international forum members)

youre a lucky man...wish i had been there, i dont hold anything against the English, thats why i said that an apology is absurd...

Did she say Blair? Nope. Anyway that is just me being pedantic. Yes you would have had a good day. And I agree that demand is absurd they were different times and different values.

The original inhabitants of what is now Scotland, who were kicked out by the Scots for not paying the rent, the Romans called Pics ( Latin word, eg. picture)
because they painted their faces.
Mel himself said the Scots didn`t paint their faces or bare their bums to the English. There enough exposed fresh in another thread which I`m keeping out of.
Good movie

WW was a commoner from humble beginnings who rose to lead Scotland against the English occupation forces. He would probably be called a terrorist today.
No disrespect was intended. I realize people were imprisoned and executed for wearing kilts. Maybe my helmets to tight.
Look on the brightside
The English had an empire
Then they lost it.

Blackearnside said:

Did she say Blair? Nope. Anyway that is just me being pedantic. Yes you would have had a good day.

Actually, Yes.

With you being south of the border on the day in question you wouldnt have seen Reporting Scotland who interviewed her and she said 'Blair and his government should apologise'. The Scotsman (in a different interview) got a different angle, but i couldn't give you a 'link' to a tv program that finished last week. Sorry 'bout that.

Dont you think if anyone should apologise it should be QE2?

ward17 said:

The original inhabitants of what is now Scotland, who were kicked out by the Scots for not paying the rent, the Romans called Pics ( Latin word, eg. picture)
because they painted their faces.
Mel himself said the Scots didn`t paint their faces or bare their bums to the English.
.

The Scots got their name from the Irish celtic tribe that they belonged to before moving to western scotland. The picts (a different tribe) werent kicked out of anywhere, they defended eastern Scotland against the Roman army....and what Mel Gisbon says about history should be taken with a bucket load of salt, he is an actor not a historian.

I understand now mountain pro. As you said I am a nationalist ans I do not believe anybody should be apologising.

On the subject of Mel Gibson not being a historian and as I said the film is based round entertainment, but. I would have thought that for the Battle of Stirling Brig he couls have had a Bridge and a River. An excellent song by Ted Christopher relects on this called "Wheres The River Mel?" well worth a listen to.

Arguably the greatest military victory over the English by the Scots was the Battle of Stirling Bridge. The film totally misrepresented it, i never really noticed the lack of bridge until you pointed it out...most of the people who watched it (Yanks) didnt have a clue about the historical events. Imagine we made a film about the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and forgot to add the harbor.

Blackearnside, did you play, or know anyone who played, a part in Braveheart? I have some friends that were extras in the battle scenes. They can be seen attacking the English garrison on the wooden forts.

Blackearnside said:

I understand now mountain pro. As you said I am a nationalist ans I do not believe anybody should be apologising.

On the subject of Mel Gibson not being a historian and as I said the film is based round entertainment, but. I would have thought that for the Battle of Stirling Brig he couls have had a Bridge and a River. An excellent song by Ted Christopher relects on this called "Wheres The River Mel?" well worth a listen to.