Reasonable expectations for gaining mass

mjoann said:

Hello,

I'm not the most athletic person; I've always been skinny and wimpy. In
the last year, I *finally* put on some weight and look more like a
normal person. I am 5'2" 105 lbs now, and my BMI and body fat percentage
are just at the lowest end of "normal."

Here's my problem:
I have a terrible figure due to a tiny upper body frame. My bust is
32.5" and my below bust rib cage measurement is 26". This isn't totally
due to being thin, in fact, my ribs are completely covered and do not
show. My waist is 24.5" and my hips are 35.5" which I am totally fine
with. I know I will always be pear shaped, but I would like to gain some
mass in my upper body to get clothes to fit better.

I've been lifting weights to gain mass and can see a difference in my
arms and shoulders. I had to start pretty light and have worked up to 5
lbs (hey, no laughing!😉 I am working my lats to get a wider back, etc.

My question is: what is a reasonable goal for a woman as far as inches
of mass gained in the chest? I'm not looking to be in contests or
anything like that, of course. I have a 3" difference between my bust
and hips, and have read that the average woman has a 2" difference, and
we all know the ideal is to be even. I'd like to at least reach the
average which would require a 1" gain. Is this possible with a moderate
(three times a week) workout? What can I reasonably expect to gain if I
work up in weight over a couple years? (Or would it even take that long?)
I'd love to hear from other women who have gained upper body mass, or
anyone that has first hand experience or examples.

The good news is that if develop a reasonable level of upper body strength
you'll probably be around even. Do big exercises; specifically, squat, bench
and row. Use the machines until you're strong enough to use a barbell, then
switch to the barbell.

Come back for more when you can upright row the barbell.

Expect to get stronger fast for a couple of months; beginner's gains are wonderful.

mjoann wrote:
SNIP

Quoted message said:

I'm not the most athletic person; I've always
been skinny

SNIP

Quoted message said:

What can I reasonably expect to gain if I
work up in weight over a couple years? (Or would

Expectations are just that. Individuals and their response to weights
vary incredibly. Regardless, get training and report back.

Quoted message said:

it even take that long?) I'd love to hear from
other women who have gained upper body mass, or
anyone that has first hand experience or examples.

SNIP

How about second hand?

http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html

At 6'0" and 150 lbs. as a 15-year-old, I was all about the skinny as
well. With Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig, et al. littered across the
strip malls, you'd think they would've had a place specifically set up
for the bone biscuits.

Very best of luck.

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/

It sounds like she just wants bigger breasts...

I thought women's breast tissue was all fat, and that benching, etc.
would AT BEST develop the muscle behind the breast, giving them a lift.
No amount of chest exercise will make them bigger. True?

Implants...

On the subject of breasts, for a woman who does not plan to be a
fitness model, I would say don't worry about it honey. I like them big,
I like them small, I like them all. What I have experienced was this
chic, who had B's but they were too soft, like squishy even. I got the
hell out of there....

🙂

mct546 said:

It sounds like she just wants bigger breasts...

I thought women's breast tissue was all fat, and that benching, etc.
would AT BEST develop the muscle behind the breast, giving them a lift.
No amount of chest exercise will make them bigger. True?

Makes your chest bigger and your [censored] perkier; doesn't make the breasts
themselves bigger, though.

mct546 said:

It sounds like she just wants bigger breasts...

I thought women's breast tissue was all fat, and that benching, etc.
would AT BEST develop the muscle behind the breast, giving them a
lift. No amount of chest exercise will make them bigger. True?

Heck no, I am not asking for bigger breasts. I'm already a natural B+
which looks fine on my little frame. You can't exercise them bigger
anyway; I know better than that. If I wanted bigger breasts, I wouldn't
be working my lats, arms, shoulders, etc. I really just want more "mass"
because I have a very small rib cage, and barely any "V" shape to my
torso. My proportions look fine from front to back, it is just from side
to side that my chest is narrower than my hips. I was just wondering
what can of gains an average woman can expect. For instance, will I have
to work like crazy to add an extra 1" or is 2" relatively simple, etc.
It is hard for me to envision how much "work" creates how much muscle.

mjoann

In article <[email hidden]>,

mjoann said:

I was just wondering
what can of gains an average woman can expect. For instance, will I have
to work like crazy to add an extra 1" or is 2" relatively simple, etc.
It is hard for me to envision how much "work" creates how much muscle.

It can't be said because it varies so much from person to person. There
are lifestyle choices and major genetic factors that influence how
easily your body can be built. You almost sound like you're using "spot
reduction" thinking in reverse. Yes, you can focus your efforts on a
particular area, but exactly how your body deals with those efforts is
guesswork for anyone here. You're posting to fitness groups, so the
main topic should be fitness, and not some media-induced image of what
you're "supposed to" look like.

mjoann said:

mct546 said:

It sounds like she just wants bigger breasts...

I thought women's breast tissue was all fat, and that benching, etc.
would AT BEST develop the muscle behind the breast, giving them a
lift. No amount of chest exercise will make them bigger. True?

Correct, but net result is still the same, ie, bigger looking breasts.

Quoted message said:

Heck no, I am not asking for bigger breasts. I'm already a natural B+
which looks fine on my little frame.

What you want to do is workout on a Pec Fly machine at a gym or you can
do dumbbell flies, or dips on parallel bars.

The reason women fail at developing their breasts/muscles is because
they insist on using laughably light weights. I can use 120 pounds on
pec fly machine at my gym. The machines goes up a lot higher than
that. Yet, you will see women working out with only 20 or 40 pounds at
most.

If you actually try to push the poundage up, you should get at least
one cup size bigger.

Quoted message said:

mjoann said:

mct546 said:

It sounds like she just wants bigger breasts...

I thought women's breast tissue was all fat, and that benching, etc.
would AT BEST develop the muscle behind the breast, giving them a
lift. No amount of chest exercise will make them bigger. True?

Correct, but net result is still the same, ie, bigger looking breasts.

Quoted message said:

Heck no, I am not asking for bigger breasts. I'm already a natural B+
which looks fine on my little frame.

What you want to do is workout on a Pec Fly machine at a gym or you can
do dumbbell flies, or dips on parallel bars.

The reason women fail at developing their breasts/muscles is because
they insist on using laughably light weights. I can use 120 pounds on
pec fly machine at my gym. The machines goes up a lot higher than
that. Yet, you will see women working out with only 20 or 40 pounds at
most.

If you actually try to push the poundage up, you should get at least
one cup size bigger.

So you're at least a D cup, right?

mjoann said:

I was just wondering what can of gains
an average woman can expect. For instance,
will I have to work like crazy to add an
extra 1" or is 2" relatively simple, etc.
It is hard for me to envision how much
"work" creates how much muscle.

Again: "Expectations are just that. Individuals and their response to
weights vary incredibly. Regardless, get training and report back."

Franco Columbu, chiropractor and former Mr. Universe, Mr. Olympia,
stated that so far as "work" is related to bodybuilding, that people
shouldn't attempt to work /just hard enough/ to tone or define, but
rather that they should work like hell. His opinion was that it's very
difficult for the majority of individuals to gain muscle mass and,
therefore, half-assed wasn't gonna cut it.

Another respondent (elsewhere in this thread) just commented on the
ridiculously light weights used by many. My recommendation is to
constantly strive to increase the intensity of your workouts - greater
weights, less rest between sets, more reps, progressing, progressing,
progressing!

Plus lats could be less the focus and delts/side delts and traps could
be *more* the focus. Have you ever seen a photo of a woman with great
traps and awesome shoulders? Hella sexay!

Best of luck with your serious training. AND PLEASE READ THE
RECOMMENDATIONS OFFERED. Or, yeah, you could just repeat the same
question over and over until someone tells you what you'd like to hear.

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/

T said:

So you're at least a D cup, right?

Whenever I step into dog [censored], I just wipe it off on the sidewalk.

Unfortunately, some of the lowest forms of life inhabit MFW. Luckily
they don't visit my gym.

mjoann said:

I know I will always be pear shaped, but I would like to gain some
mass in my upper body to get clothes to fit better.

I've been lifting weights to gain mass and can see a difference in my
arms and shoulders. I had to start pretty light and have worked up to 5
lbs (hey, no laughing!😉

Unless that is a typo, and you are NOT in fact working out with 50
pound dumbbells, that is indeed a laughably light weight. Females who
insist on restricting themselves to laughably light weights, surely are
not taking their bodybuilding seriously. Nor, can their reading skills
or perception of reality be all that great, either.

There is one exception however. You can expand your rib cage by
stretching it in order to make it bigger. All bodybuilders with a
distinctively large rib cage have by training stretched out their rib
cage. You can do this with triceps pullovers where the emphasis is on
stretching rather than on using maximum weight (ie, training to
failure).

Also, nutrition is a big part of building muscle mass. In order to
build large muscle mass, as well as to maintain it, you have to eat
like a pig every day.

Muscle mass is not a commodity, like a dress, that you simply can buy
in a store.

Just thought that all you girlies, and girlie-men, out there might want
to know.

"[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

mjoann said:

I know I will always be pear shaped, but I would like to gain some
mass in my upper body to get clothes to fit better.

I've been lifting weights to gain mass and can see a difference in my
arms and shoulders. I had to start pretty light and have worked up to 5
lbs (hey, no laughing!😉

Unless that is a typo, and you are NOT in fact working out with 50
pound dumbbells, that is indeed a laughably light weight. Females who
insist on restricting themselves to laughably light weights, surely are
not taking their bodybuilding seriously. Nor, can their reading skills
or perception of reality be all that great, either.

There is one exception however. You can expand your rib cage by
stretching it in order to make it bigger. All bodybuilders with a
distinctively large rib cage have by training stretched out their rib
cage. You can do this with triceps pullovers where the emphasis is on
stretching rather than on using maximum weight (ie, training to
failure).

Also, nutrition is a big part of building muscle mass. In order to
build large muscle mass, as well as to maintain it, you have to eat
like a pig every day.

Muscle mass is not a commodity, like a dress, that you simply can buy
in a store.

Just thought that all you girlies, and girlie-men, out there might want
to know.

Why don't you post an image of yourself so we can see how you have put
this into practice, Mr. Gohde? You have your own web site, your own
domain name, and all sorts of web space, so why no images of yourself?

Pony up, Mr. Gohde. Lets see some graphic proof of your expertise.

JMW said:

"[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Why don't you post an image of yourself so
we can see how you have put this into practice,
Mr. Gohde? You have your own web site, your own
domain name, and all sorts of web space, so why
no images of yourself?

Pony up, Mr. Gohde. Lets see some graphic proof
of your expertise.

That's a reasonable request, imo, however Ellington Darden has an
equally reasonable reply to that request, JMW. I have several of his
books, but I can't find the exact quote. Still, the gist of it is that
just because someone is the physical ultimate, say a 1970's
Schwarzenegger or a current-day take your pick champion bodybuilder,
does not mean they have the best information available so far as
increasing lean bodyweight and functional strength and power.

In short, Mr. Gohde's image may very likely be irrelevant to the worth
or value of his advice.

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/

Curt James said:

just because someone is the physical ultimate, say a 1970's
Schwarzenegger or a current-day take your pick champion bodybuilder,
does not mean they have the best information available so far as
increasing lean bodyweight and functional strength and power.

In the movie "Pumping Iron" Schwarzenegger states that "He lied" to the
"Hulk" when he asked for bodybuilding advice. Seems that
Schwarzenegger also said "I lied" in one or two of his his hit movies,
like "Terminator 3."

JMW said:

Quoted message said:

Muscle mass is not a commodity, like a dress, that you simply can buy
in a store.

Just thought that all you girlies, and girlie-men, out there might want
to know.

Pony up, Mr. Gohde. Lets see some graphic proof of your expertise.

I see that you read my post on the "Girlie-Man" thread, Girlie-Man.

Rest assured, JMW, I am prettier, more muscular, stronger, and can use
between 3 or 4 times the weight being pumped by most of the females at
my gym. Since, we are talking dumb stupid females, here, that really
is not very hard to do. Like most bodybuilders, I also have bigger
muscular breasts than any flat chested female that I know has. And, I
also have a great pair of legs too, thanks to my mother and a set of
well developed calf muscles.

Just exactly what part of that do you find threatening, Girlie-Man?

I ended my post with a call to all Girlie-Men, and JMW was dumb enough
to reply. You Girlie-Men can make your own conclusions. Ha, ... Hah,
Ha!

On 11 Sep 2005 13:30:21 -0700,
"[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

I see that you read my post on the "Girlie-Man" thread, Girlie-Man.

Yes Arnie, he did.

Quoted message said:

Rest assured, JMW, I am prettier, more muscular, stronger, and can use
between 3 or 4 times the weight being pumped by most of the females at
my gym.

He reminds me of Kramer taking karate, in a class of children.

Quoted message said:

Since, we are talking dumb stupid females, here, that really
is not very hard to do. Like most bodybuilders, I also have bigger
muscular breasts than any flat chested female that I know has. And, I
also have a great pair of legs too, thanks to my mother

I bet she "massaged" those legs (amongst other things) for you? Is
that why they're so big?

Quoted message said:

and a set of
well developed calf muscles.

Sheep are better.

Quoted message said:

Just exactly what part of that do you find threatening, Girlie-Man?

Your penis and buttocks.

Quoted message said:

I ended my post with a call to all Girlie-Men, and JMW was dumb enough
to reply. You Girlie-Men can make your own conclusions. Ha, ... Hah,
Ha!

"You're gay" is mine.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

Quoted message said:

In the movie "Pumping Iron" Schwarzenegger
states that "He lied" to the "Hulk" when he
asked for bodybuilding advice. Seems that
Schwarzenegger also said "I lied" in one or
two of his hit movies, like "Terminator 3."

What the hell are you talking about? Serves me right.

I demand you post a picture to back up the benefits of your so-called
natural health perspective. I wasn't slamming Schwarzenegger, I was
saying that just because a person may NOT be the physical ideal doesn't
automatically mean they don't understand what it takes to achieve good
health and a good physique.

You're not picking on Ah-nuld, are you? Because that's not cutting it.

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/

Curt James said:

JMW said:

"[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Why don't you post an image of yourself so
we can see how you have put this into practice,
Mr. Gohde? You have your own web site, your own
domain name, and all sorts of web space, so why
no images of yourself?

Pony up, Mr. Gohde. Lets see some graphic proof
of your expertise.

That's a reasonable request, imo, however Ellington Darden has an
equally reasonable reply to that request, JMW. I have several of his
books, but I can't find the exact quote. Still, the gist of it is that
just because someone is the physical ultimate, say a 1970's
Schwarzenegger or a current-day take your pick champion bodybuilder,
does not mean they have the best information available so far as
increasing lean bodyweight and functional strength and power.

In short, Mr. Gohde's image may very likely be irrelevant to the worth
or value of his advice.

[1] Even Lyle posted his pics.
[2] Gohde has been a kook in sci.med.nutrition for a long time. Only
recently has he taken up an interest in resistance training. Now he
wants to set himself up as an expert on that subject. And as usual,
he will proclaim himself to be right without a shred of legitimate
support in science or experience. At best, he simply regurgitates
what he has Googled.
[3] Given that he lacks evidence of knowledge in terms of science or
experience, perhaps he could offer an image, eh?

"[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

JMW said:

Quoted message said:

Muscle mass is not a commodity, like a dress, that you simply can buy
in a store.

Just thought that all you girlies, and girlie-men, out there might want
to know.

Pony up, Mr. Gohde. Lets see some graphic proof of your expertise.

I see that you read my post on the "Girlie-Man" thread, Girlie-Man.

Rest assured, JMW, I am prettier, more muscular, stronger, and can use
between 3 or 4 times the weight being pumped by most of the females at
my gym. Since, we are talking dumb stupid females, here, that really
is not very hard to do. Like most bodybuilders, I also have bigger
muscular breasts than any flat chested female that I know has. And, I
also have a great pair of legs too, thanks to my mother and a set of
well developed calf muscles.

Like many here, I have posted images, documented my lifts through a
recognized powerlifting association or on videotape, and my advice can
be supported by scientific study. You on the other hand, make claims
without evidence and proclaim yourself right, probably in a vain
effort to make yourself believe your own [censored].

Quoted message said:

Just exactly what part of that do you find threatening, Girlie-Man?

You're not threatening, Mr. Natural. You're an annoying kook.
However, I see value in responding to you because newbies might think
you actually know what you're talking about it. I would hate to see
them suffer by believing you.