Help with Cleats and foot pain

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Quoted message said:

Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.

Thanks, Jeff

Jeff, have you gone to an orthopedic specialist to see if you have a problem with nerve pinching or
bone spurs or something like that?

Pat in TX

I used to get foot cramps just lying down, maybe in a strange position. My mother told me to stand
up on the cramping foot, and the cramp subsided. This sounds a bit like your experience with
standing up on the pedals.

It seems that there are two possibilities: pressure at the saddle causing the cramps and being
relieved when you stand up, or it is actually true that putting pressure on the feet relieves the
cramps. Other possibilities are that simply using different leg muscles, or using them differently
to stand, has some effect.

I would suggest wearing shoes that allow your toes to wiggle, and then wiggle/flex/extend your toes
occasionally while riding. Tight shoes will eventually encourage arthritis.

The suggestion to consult a doctor is a good one. I would include circulation problems (while seated
on the bike) as an area of investigation.

David Wagner

In article said:

I used to get foot cramps just lying down, maybe in a strange position. My mother told me to stand
up on the cramping foot, and the cramp subsided. This sounds a bit like your experience with
standing up on the pedals.

It seems that there are two possibilities: pressure at the saddle causing the cramps and being
relieved when you stand up, or it is actually true that putting pressure on the feet relieves the
cramps. Other possibilities are that simply using different leg muscles, or using them differently
to stand, has some effect.

I would suggest wearing shoes that allow your toes to wiggle, and then wiggle/flex/extend your toes
occasionally while riding. Tight shoes will eventually encourage arthritis.

My feet hurt when the shoes have too much excess volume for my skinny foot, when there is room above
my foot I tend to push down with my toes to keep the foot from moving around as much, which can
contribute to cramping and pain. The right insoles can help a lot.

When I've had symptoms like that it's due to my little toe joint being centered over the outside
edge of the shoe sole which causes pain because the entire foot isn't evenly supported. If you
compare the sole width of your mountain shoes to your road shoes, and it's wider, that might be a
clue. Otherwise it might just be a combination of normal foot swelling and too tight straps.

Since Look pedals have a lot of pedal spindle to foot distance, you might want to check where the
big joint of your toe is in relation to the pedal spindle in the 3 o'clock position. When your heel
drops at that point in the downstroke, you can actually find it behind the spindle even if you've
done a by the book job setting up.

"Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello everyone,

I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of articles, I've not found
anything specific enough to my problem, so here goes...

I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot forward to the two outside
toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and
get off the bike for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them before a big
climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but
soft pedaling is nearly unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the
ride, the pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the ride. The cramp is always
equal in both feet.

Here's the technical details: I'm a Cat4, and a sport MTB racer (I don't have this issue on the
MTB though) I ride in Sidi Energys (size
46) with Look PP396 and red cleats. Cranks are Campagnolo Record 9 -
170mm. I've had this issue for years and have previously ridden on DA
172.5s, Carnac Legend shoes, and Custom Orthotics, and have tried all combinations of the above.
Other than good arch comfort, the orthotics made no difference. I have tried every type of
shoe tightness from slipper loose to "mistress tight" with no change. I'm next going to try
some Speedplay pedals I suppose. Can anyone give me some insight into where I should position
the cleats? I'm doing the "over the ball of the foot" thing now, and I'm thinking of sliding
the cleat forward so that the ball is behind the spindle, hopefully taking some pressure off
of the outside of the foot.

Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.

Thanks, Jeff

Paul Southworth cnhyf- said:

My feet hurt when the shoes have too much excess volume for my skinny foot, when there is room
above my foot I tend to push down with my toes to keep the foot from moving around as much, which
can contribute to cramping and pain. The right insoles can help a lot.

I think I have this problem...what insole are you using?

--
Rick Onanian

[email hidden] (Jeff Strickland) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hello everyone,

I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of articles, I've not found
anything specific enough to my problem, so here goes...

I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot forward to the two outside
toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and
get off the bike for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them before a big
climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but
soft pedaling is nearly unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the
ride, the pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the ride. The cramp is always
equal in both feet.

Here's the technical details: I'm a Cat4, and a sport MTB racer (I don't have this issue on the
MTB though) I ride in Sidi Energys (size
46) with Look PP396 and red cleats. Cranks are Campagnolo Record 9 -
170mm. I've had this issue for years and have previously ridden on DA
172.5s, Carnac Legend shoes, and Custom Orthotics, and have tried all combinations of the above.
Other than good arch comfort, the orthotics made no difference. I have tried every type of
shoe tightness from slipper loose to "mistress tight" with no change. I'm next going to try
some Speedplay pedals I suppose. Can anyone give me some insight into where I should position
the cleats? I'm doing the "over the ball of the foot" thing now, and I'm thinking of sliding
the cleat forward so that the ball is behind the spindle, hopefully taking some pressure off
of the outside of the foot.

Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.

Thanks, Jeff

In my experience, part of the solution is gear (shoes, insoles, cleat position) and another part
is yer foot.

I've successfully reducing foot cramps by strengthening the muscles in my feet. I wear different
shoes, go barefoot sometimes, stretch, flex, etc. I'm guessing wearing different may work different
muscles just a little and prevent atrophy that might occur if I always wore the same shoes.

[email hidden] (Jeff Strickland) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot forward to the two outside
toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and
get off the bike for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them before a big
climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but
soft pedaling is nearly unbearable.

Do you stretch before you ride? I've found that manual manipulation of the ankles, feet, and toes,
in addition to the standard ham/quad/calf stretches, can help significantly with foot pain. This is
something to do both prior to exercise and on rest days.

-Alex Merz

Jeff Strickland said:

Hello everyone,

I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of articles, I've not found
anything specific enough to my problem, so here goes...

I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot forward to the two outside
toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all cramps though?),

Can't comment re. cleats etc. But if you have it looked at by a doctor raise the question of a
neuroma (essentially the pinching of the nerves between the toes - usually the 2/3 interspace). It's
much the type of pain you describe.

If it's relevant it can be relieved by an orthotic but if it develops surgery may be necessary.

Hmmm....

I would like to meet this 'mistress tight' of whom you speak. Sounds fascinating.

[email hidden] (Jeff Strickland) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hello everyone,

I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of articles, I've not found
anything specific enough to my problem, so here goes...

I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot forward to the two outside
toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and
get off the bike for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them before a big
climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but
soft pedaling is nearly unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the
ride, the pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the ride. The cramp is always
equal in both feet.

Here's the technical details: I'm a Cat4, and a sport MTB racer (I don't have this issue on the
MTB though) I ride in Sidi Energys (size
46) with Look PP396 and red cleats. Cranks are Campagnolo Record 9 -
170mm. I've had this issue for years and have previously ridden on DA
172.5s, Carnac Legend shoes, and Custom Orthotics, and have tried all combinations of the above.
Other than good arch comfort, the orthotics made no difference. I have tried every type of
shoe tightness from slipper loose to "mistress tight" with no change. I'm next going to try
some Speedplay pedals I suppose. Can anyone give me some insight into where I should position
the cleats? I'm doing the "over the ball of the foot" thing now, and I'm thinking of sliding
the cleat forward so that the ball is behind the spindle, hopefully taking some pressure off
of the outside of the foot.

Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.

Thanks, Jeff

[email hidden] (Jeff Strickland) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hello everyone,

I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of articles, I've not found
anything specific enough to my problem, so here goes...

I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot forward to the two outside
toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and
get off the bike for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them before a big
climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but
soft pedaling is nearly unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the
ride, the pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the ride. The cramp is always
equal in both feet.

Quoted message said:

Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.

Thanks, Jeff

I rode with a fellow whose feet used to cramp. His problem believe it or not was that his socks were
too tight on the foot compressing the toes and causing pain on longer rides. He switched to looser
fitting socks and the problem diappeared.

I am only a weekend warrior so I hesitate to jump in, but I am dealing with the same thing. Mine is more numbness than pain, and only on the left foot.

Like you, I don't seem to have this problem when I mountain bike. I figured it was steming from the bend in the back since this is the obvious difference (to me) in your posturing.

I find moving my positions helps.

Something not mentioned, which I am now also trying, is to consider tilt. The Look CX7 comes with adapters but for my new pedals (speedplay zero) I purchased the $20 LeMond fitness wedges that allow for canting (is that the right word?) of any cleat. I am still experimenting so it's too early to give two thumbs up, but my initial impression is favorable.

The other ideas mentioned are great. I do find the idea of too tight of a shoe can be a negative.

Well good luck amigo and report back any successes.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jeff Strickland
Hello everyone,

I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of articles, I've not found anything
specific enough to my problem, so here goes...

I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot forward to the two outside
toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and get
off the bike for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them before a big climb,
climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but soft
pedaling is nearly unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the ride, the
pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the ride. The cramp is always equal in
both feet.

Here's the technical details: I'm a Cat4, and a sport MTB racer (I don't have this issue on the MTB
though) I ride in Sidi Energys (size
2) with Look PP396 and red cleats. Cranks are Campagnolo Record 9 -
2i. I've had this issue for years and have previously ridden on DA
3.5s, Carnac Legend shoes, and Custom Orthotics, and have tried all combinations of the above. Other
than good arch comfort, the orthotics made no difference. I have tried every type of shoe
tightness from slipper loose to "mistress tight" with no change. I'm next going to try some
Speedplay pedals I suppose. Can anyone give me some insight into where I should position the
cleats? I'm doing the "over the ball of the foot" thing now, and I'm thinking of sliding the cleat
forward so that the ball is behind the spindle, hopefully taking some pressure off of the outside
of the foot.

Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.

Thanks, Jeff