regina 5 speed freewheel removal (2 prong)

dteah wrote:
<snip tale of woe regarding Regina freewheel>

Quoted message said:

Any idea where I might find the correct freewheel removal tool? And since
the hub has been removed from the wheel do I have any chance at all of
removing the freewheel? I know from past experience with a BMX hub in a
similar circumstance with a single speed freewheel that typically the only
option is to destroy the freewheel. If that is the case here how can break
the Regina freewheel without destroying the hub?

That freewheel requires a particular removal tool, such as this:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?&d=single&item_id=BR-CT1

You need to hold the tool onto the freewheel with the skewer and use
the rest of the wheel...

ooops...

With the spokes cut, you're basically screwed. You might be able to
relace a rim to the hub with Hozan double-bend "aero" spokes, but
they're almost as impossible to find as the Regina freewheel tool.
Without the leverage of a wheel, it's darn near impossible to remove
the freewheel- or even the remnants of the freewheel body should you
dissassemble the freewheel in an attempt to salvage the hub.

That's my story- maybe one of the gurus knows how to unscrew the
inscrutable.

Jeff

"JeffWills" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

dteah wrote:

With the spokes cut, you're basically screwed. You might be able to
relace a rim to the hub with Hozan double-bend "aero" spokes, but
they're almost as impossible to find as the Regina freewheel tool.
Without the leverage of a wheel, it's darn near impossible to remove
the freewheel- or even the remnants of the freewheel body should you
dissassemble the freewheel in an attempt to salvage the hub.

That's my story- maybe one of the gurus knows how to unscrew the
inscrutable.

Would it be possible to just lace 4 or 8 spokes to a rim, all on the non-
drive side, just to get the freewheel off? It's not like the wheel would
need to be rideable...

Just a thought...

dteah said:

Hi there,

I recently started doing some volunteer work for a group that takes in bike
donations, and offers a work for bike program to underprivileged children. I
have a decent tool collection some experience with bike wrenching, so I have
been handed some of the complicated mechanical problems. One involves a
Campy Nuovo Tipo or maybe a Gran Sport hub with a Regina GS Corse 5 speed
freewheel. The freewheel looks like it is meant to be removed with a 2 prong
tool similar to the Park FR2 freewheel remover that is designed to work with
Sun Tour freewheels, but the prongs on this tool are larger than the slots
in the freewheel. A well intentioned volunteer removed the hub from the
wheel by cutting the spokes. I have very little experience with parts that
are as old as these.

Any idea where I might find the correct freewheel removal tool? And since
the hub has been removed from the wheel do I have any chance at all of
removing the freewheel? I know from past experience with a BMX hub in a
similar circumstance with a single speed freewheel that typically the only
option is to destroy the freewheel. If that is the case here how can break
the Regina freewheel without destroying the hub?

In this case i wonder if either parts are worth it, but it will be
educational

What might work:

get the proper remover and bolt it to the freewheel with the skewer
(tight)

put fw in vise (alternatively you can take the FW apart (remove cogs
with chainwhips) remove cone with hammer and punch (LH thread), and let
the bits fly, clamp vise on body)

get 8 or 18 scrap longish spokes, cut of the heads and give them a extra
bend for a z shape. (or grind the sides of the spokehead)

feed the spokes in the flange closest to the FW and radially lace them
to a stout rim

Turn the rim to tighten the spokes and hopefully unscrew hub

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

JeffWills said:

dteah wrote:
<snip tale of woe regarding Regina freewheel>

Quoted message said:

Any idea where I might find the correct freewheel removal tool? And since
the hub has been removed from the wheel do I have any chance at all of
removing the freewheel? I know from past experience with a BMX hub in a
similar circumstance with a single speed freewheel that typically the only
option is to destroy the freewheel. If that is the case here how can break
the Regina freewheel without destroying the hub?

That freewheel requires a particular removal tool, such as this:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?&d=single&item_id=BR-CT1

You need to hold the tool onto the freewheel with the skewer and use
the rest of the wheel...

ooops...

With the spokes cut, you're basically screwed. You might be able to
relace a rim to the hub with Hozan double-bend "aero" spokes, but
they're almost as impossible to find as the Regina freewheel tool.
Without the leverage of a wheel, it's darn near impossible to remove
the freewheel- or even the remnants of the freewheel body should you
dissassemble the freewheel in an attempt to salvage the hub.

That's my story- maybe one of the gurus knows how to unscrew the
inscrutable.

After getting the correct tool, you need to partially lace the wheel,
with enough spokes to be able to put the tool into a vise and then
remove the freewheel.

dteah wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Campy Nuovo Tipo or maybe a Gran Sport hub with a Regina GS Corse 5 speed
freewheel.
A well intentioned volunteer removed the hub from the
wheel by cutting the spokes.
...since
the hub has been removed from the wheel do I have any chance at all of
removing the freewheel?

Don't lace spokes to the non-drive side! You will almost certainly
twist the hub spool and ruin the hub. If you want to save the hub, lace
the spokes in the drive side flange only.

Or...

After the freewheel tool is in the vise, use a monkey wrench on the
drive side flange. I did this and it was easy, though the flange had
four small gouges from the serrations on the wrench.

Thanks everyone for all the responses. It looks like I can get the tool from
Harris Cyclery(http://harriscyclery.net/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=566). It
certainly would not be a problem to lace the hub back to the rim on the non
drive side, don't know if that would give me enough leverage to do this or
not, but it is worth a try.

"dteah" <+dteah*@yahoo*.&com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi there,

I recently started doing some volunteer work for a group that takes in
bike donations, and offers a work for bike program to underprivileged
children. I have a decent tool collection some experience with bike
wrenching, so I have been handed some of the complicated mechanical
problems. One involves a Campy Nuovo Tipo or maybe a Gran Sport hub with
a Regina GS Corse 5 speed freewheel. The freewheel looks like it is meant
to be removed with a 2 prong tool similar to the Park FR2 freewheel
remover that is designed to work with Sun Tour freewheels, but the prongs
on this tool are larger than the slots in the freewheel. A well
intentioned volunteer removed the hub from the wheel by cutting the
spokes. I have very little experience with parts that are as old as these.

Any idea where I might find the correct freewheel removal tool? And since
the hub has been removed from the wheel do I have any chance at all of
removing the freewheel? I know from past experience with a BMX hub in a
similar circumstance with a single speed freewheel that typically the only
option is to destroy the freewheel. If that is the case here how can break
the Regina freewheel without destroying the hub?

Alright, it is a bit unclear to me as to how I could get spokes into the
drive side flange since the freewheel is still on. Right now there are the
ends of the spokes still in the holes, I suppose I can get these out by
clipping off the heads, but that sort of leaves me wondering how I will go
about fitting new spokes in there.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

dteah wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Campy Nuovo Tipo or maybe a Gran Sport hub with a Regina GS Corse 5 speed
freewheel.
A well intentioned volunteer removed the hub from the
wheel by cutting the spokes.
...since
the hub has been removed from the wheel do I have any chance at all of
removing the freewheel?

Don't lace spokes to the non-drive side! You will almost certainly
twist the hub spool and ruin the hub. If you want to save the hub, lace
the spokes in the drive side flange only.

Or...

After the freewheel tool is in the vise, use a monkey wrench on the
drive side flange. I did this and it was easy, though the flange had
four small gouges from the serrations on the wrench.

In article <[email hidden]>,

dteah' +dteah*@yahoo*.&com said:

Alright, it is a bit unclear to me as to how I could get spokes into the
drive side flange since the freewheel is still on. Right now there are the
ends of the spokes still in the holes, I suppose I can get these out by
clipping off the heads, but that sort of leaves me wondering how I will go
about fitting new spokes in there.

Remove the sprockets from the freewheel, and you'll have lots of room.
You will need two chainwhips. Normal, i.e. counterclockwise to loosen,
threads.

--
Ted Bennett

dteah said:

I recently started doing some volunteer work for a group that takes in bike
donations, and offers a work for bike program to underprivileged children. I
have a decent tool collection some experience with bike wrenching, so I have
been handed some of the complicated mechanical problems. One involves a
Campy Nuovo Tipo or maybe a Gran Sport hub with a Regina GS Corse 5 speed
freewheel. The freewheel looks like it is meant to be removed with a 2 prong
tool similar to the Park FR2 freewheel remover that is designed to work with
Sun Tour freewheels, but the prongs on this tool are larger than the slots
in the freewheel. A well intentioned volunteer removed the hub from the
wheel by cutting the spokes. I have very little experience with parts that
are as old as these.

You're basically screwed. There is no way to get enough torque to remove
that freewheel without the hub being laced to a rim. If the hub is
high-flange and the freewheel is a corncob (14-18 or so), then you can
re-lace the hub into a wheel and maybe get it off. Removing a freewheel
takes a _lot_ of force, since (among other things) it was tightened on
there through years of riding.

The procedure is to put the tool's teeth on the freewheel, secure it with
a quick-release skewer (not really tight, but snug), then clamp the tool
in a bench vice. Grab the rim and try to turn it. Hard. Having a tire
on the rim helps, too, to keep your hands from digging into the rim.

With no rim on there, applying enough force will certainly bend the hub
shell before you can loosen the threads.

You might be able to re-lace the wheel by removing the cogs from the
freewheel body. Tighten up the spokes fairly evenly (but of course you
don't need to completely true it) and give it a shot. If the tool gouges
out the notches, or if you can't find a proper tool, you can take the
freewheel apart, sweep all those little bearings into the trash, and use a
big pipe wrench on the innerds of the freewheel body.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The
_`\(,_ | common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance,
(_)/ (_) | and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my
trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my
business!" --Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

dteah said:

Thanks everyone for all the responses. It looks like I can get the tool from
Harris Cyclery(http://harriscyclery.net/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=566). It
certainly would not be a problem to lace the hub back to the rim on the non
drive side, don't know if that would give me enough leverage to do this or
not, but it is worth a try.

No, no, no. Don't try it without lacing up the right flange. You will
just twist the hub to shreds. That inner part of the hub shell is just a
thin tube of aluminum. You have to apply as much force as you (and
possibly another person) can bring to bear on the rim. Don't you think
that would be bad for that thin part of the hub?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
_`\(,_ | mathematics.
(_)/ (_) |

dteah said:

Alright, it is a bit unclear to me as to how I could get spokes into the
drive side flange since the freewheel is still on. Right now there are the
ends of the spokes still in the holes, I suppose I can get these out by
clipping off the heads, but that sort of leaves me wondering how I will go
about fitting new spokes in there.

Marten's suggestion: get the longest spokes you can find, snip off the
heads, and then put a Z-bend in the end:

===
\\
===========

This will allow the spoke to hold onto the flange well enough to remove
the freewheel. Lace the drive side flange to a rim, attach the remover
securely, and clamp the remover in a big bench vice. This should work.

Maybe.

The old two-prong Regina freewheels were a b***h to remove, even under
the best of circumstances. It often required exerting a little downward
pressure on the wheel to keep the remover securely engaged with the
freewheel. Obviously you can't do this, so I can only suggest reading
up on the Dark Arts and sacrificing a small animal to the Gods before
starting.

Jeff

12 Sep 2005 02:35:54 GMT 'dteah' +dteah*@yahoo*.&com said:

I have
been handed some of the complicated mechanical problems. One involves a
Campy Nuovo Tipo or maybe a Gran Sport hub with a Regina GS Corse 5 speed
freewheel. The freewheel looks like it is meant to be removed with a 2 prong
tool similar to the Park FR2 freewheel remover that is designed to work with
Sun Tour freewheels, but the prongs on this tool are larger than the slots
in the freewheel. A well intentioned volunteer removed the hub from the
wheel by cutting the spokes. I have very little experience with parts that
are as old as these.

I have done this successfully on a Campy Record low flange hub, and
salvaged both the hub and the Regina freewheel. The pair had been
installed together for many years when I got them with the spokes cut
out.

Here's what I did:

I got the Campy freewheel tool with the special insert, because the
Regina had the 13T outer cog.

Remove the QR and set the springs aside. Thread the QR thru the tool
and hub with the QR lever on the tool side. Clamp it down securely.

Clamp the hub in a vise, tight. You're clamping against the outer
edges of both flanges, but you want to make sure that the flange near
the freewheel takes all the torque. If that flange slips and the other
one doesn't, you'll twist the hub body, probably breaking it.

Pull on the freewheel tool while watching the hub flanges. If they
show any sign of slipping, stop and retighten the vise.

At the first sign of loosening, don't forget to loosen the QR.

If this hub is a high flange, I'd be concerned that the force
necessary to clamp them would cause them to buckle. I can imagine
making a jig with pins that would engage 2 or 4 of the holes in the
flanges, but the cost of making this tool would probably exceed the
value of the parts saved. How many holes are there in this flange? Are
they round or oval?

OTOH, if you want to give up on this, I'd be willing to try my hand at
it. I'd keep the parts, but I'd report back on my success or failure
and my method.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

JeffWills said:

The old two-prong Regina freewheels were a b***h to remove, even under
the best of circumstances. It often required exerting a little downward
pressure on the wheel to keep the remover securely engaged with the
freewheel. Obviously you can't do this, so I can only suggest reading
up on the Dark Arts and sacrificing a small animal to the Gods before
starting.

On the other hand, this is a 20+ year-old which should only be used with a
5 or 6-speed freewheel. It is, to put it straight, obsolete. Pretty,
perhaps, but for $20 (Nashbar) you can get a much more
reliable low-end Shimano freehub.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a
_`\(,_ | conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw
(_)/ (_) |

Quoted message said:

Don't lace spokes to the non-drive side! You will almost certainly
twist the hub spool and ruin the hub. If you want to save the hub, lace
the spokes in the drive side flange only.

How do ya suppose he gets the spokes in there with a FW on? I have done
the lace partially(on the 'kick stand side' and then use the partial
wheel to remove many freewheels w/o twisting any hub spools. They are
stronger than that. If twisting a hub spool is the issue, the freewheel
will be so tight the notches will detonate way before the hub center.

Quoted message said:

Or...

After the freewheel tool is in the vise, use a monkey wrench on the
drive side flange. I did this and it was easy, though the flange had
four small gouges from the serrations on the wrench.

Again, thanks to everyone for the help with this. All of your advice is
going towards a good cause. I realize that this hub has little monetary
value & could cheaply be replaced by a Shimano or similar part, but the
aesthetics of the Campy hub have captured the imagination of the volunteer
and the participant in the mentoring program I am doing this work for. So,
to me the value is in helping them figure out how to solve this puzzle and
hopefully recycle this interesting part back into a bicycle.

This is a 36 hole high flange hub. The machined holes in the flanges are
circular rather than the oval shape I see more frequently on older Campy
hubs(I am not referring to the spoke holes, those are obviously round as
well), I have some pictures posted if you would like to see what I am
working with: http://www.bigneck.com/cphub/cphub2.JPG,
http://www.bigneck.com/cphub/cphub1.JPG (these are big).

I relaced a wheel once in the past to solve a similar problem, but I was
fortunate enough to still have the drive side spokes in place. A couple of
you have mentioned using long spokes with the heads cut off and a Z shaped
bend on the drive side flange . I just want to make sure I understand this
correctly, I can see how I might be able to get a headless spoke through the
outside of the drive side flange. Once I have threaded this I should notch
the spoke at an angle so that the bend holds it in place against the flange?

"dteah" <+dteah*@yahoo*.&com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi there,

I recently started doing some volunteer work for a group that takes in
bike donations, and offers a work for bike program to underprivileged
children. I have a decent tool collection some experience with bike
wrenching, so I have been handed some of the complicated mechanical
problems. One involves a Campy Nuovo Tipo or maybe a Gran Sport hub with
a Regina GS Corse 5 speed freewheel. The freewheel looks like it is meant
to be removed with a 2 prong tool similar to the Park FR2 freewheel
remover that is designed to work with Sun Tour freewheels, but the prongs
on this tool are larger than the slots in the freewheel. A well
intentioned volunteer removed the hub from the wheel by cutting the
spokes. I have very little experience with parts that are as old as these.

Any idea where I might find the correct freewheel removal tool? And since
the hub has been removed from the wheel do I have any chance at all of
removing the freewheel? I know from past experience with a BMX hub in a
similar circumstance with a single speed freewheel that typically the only
option is to destroy the freewheel. If that is the case here how can break
the Regina freewheel without destroying the hub?

dteah said:

value & could cheaply be replaced by a Shimano or similar part, but the
aesthetics of the Campy hub have captured the imagination of the volunteer
and the participant in the mentoring program I am doing this work for.

OK. It will take some work, though.

Quoted message said:

This is a 36 hole high flange hub. The machined holes in the flanges are
circular rather than the oval shape I see more frequently on older Campy
hubs

The good news is that it is high-flange. Get a couple of chain whips.
You can use them to remove all the cogs on the freewheel -- IIRC they all
thread on -- IIDRC then maybe the bigger ones are splined, but certainly
the smallest is/are threaded. Clamp one chain whip around the biggest
cog to keep the freewheel from spinning, and wrap the other chain whip
around the little sprocket and unscrew. Once the cogs have been removed
from the freewheel body, you can lace up the rim you plan to use this hub
with, and remove the freewheel as usual. It's not even extra work, since
eventually you'll be re-building the hub into a wheel, anyway.

Are you able to find a tool to fit? If not, where are you? Maybe we can
work something out for a loaner tool. I do have one, which I believe will
fit.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
_`\(,_ | mathematics.
(_)/ (_) |

First of all, find a retro racer in your area and borrow a regina
freewheel tool. There are 2 or 3 different types of regina tools
available, make sure to get the right kind - bring your hub and
freewheel with you. If its just a suntour-type of tool, you can buy a
suntour tool and grind it down if needed.

There are at least THREE ways to get the hub off the freewheel without
damaging the parts :

(a) Lace only the non-drive-side flanges to spokes and an old rim. I
think that for this type of operation, you can bend the spokes if you
need to get them around the freewheel. Just use some old used
spokes. Use at least 12-16 spokes or you will risk losing the rim.

Once the wheel is relaced its a simple matter to put the freewheel
tool vertically in a vise, and then place the freewheel/hub atop the
vice, and spin the wheel counter-clockwise to loosen the freewheel.

(b) HIGH FLANGE HUBS ONLY. mount 2 thick screwdrivers of equal size
vertically in a vise. The screwdrivers are ideal because they are
hardened steel are are unlikely to bend. Now drop the wheel onto the
screwdrivers and get out your giant crescent wrench and freewheel
puller and have at it.

ALTERNATE HIGH-FLANGE WAY WHEN NO SECURELY MOUNTED VISE IS AVAILABLE.
Using a long 2x4 board, install 6 lag bolts sticking upwards, through
the 2x4 board. Place the hub on top of the bolt board, and bolt the
hub down onto these bolts, each bolt goes through a (wide-flange) hub
drill-out. Get 12 nuts for thse bolts. Tighten the nuts so that the
hub shell is well supported on both flanges.

This is likely to torque and twist the hub shell, at least this is
what happened (very slightly) to my normandy sport hub with only 4 lag
bolts. I'd recommend backing off on the axle cones before doing this,
possibly this might lessen a chance of shell torquing.

The goal is to support the shell as you get ready to torque the hub
with your 16" crescent wrench which in my house is named ... "mother".

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Perhaps we're thinking about this too lineraly.......
Try this -
Step1 - Destrol the freewheel by spinning the cone out - should be no
problem, even on a rimless hub.
Step2- Remove as much of the freewheel as you can.
Step3- Build your new wheel on the hub, with the inner core of the
freewheel attached. Should be plenty of room to get the spokes on with
the sprockets missing.
Step4- remover the inner core of the freewheel from the hub with a pipe
wrench.

I could be missing something, but this might work.

13 Sep 2005 14:11:06 -0400 'David L. Johnson said:

The good news is that it is high-flange. Get a couple of chain whips.
You can use them to remove all the cogs on the freewheel -- IIRC they all
thread on -- IIDRC then maybe the bigger ones are splined, but certainly
the smallest is/are threaded. Clamp one chain whip around the biggest
cog to keep the freewheel from spinning, and wrap the other chain whip
around the little sprocket and unscrew. Once the cogs have been removed
from the freewheel body, you can lace up the rim you plan to use this hub
with, and remove the freewheel as usual. It's not even extra work, since
eventually you'll be re-building the hub into a wheel, anyway.

David's right. This is the most promising way to proceed. Wish I'd
thought of it. ;-)

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------