I want a new bike

SMS said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/ch/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2002&model=6649
is the only one of the above on the website. It seems to be made out
of something called CR-MO. I have no idea what CR-MO is.

Cro-moly steel. The best material for mid-range bicycles.

I miss riding on a Flying Pigeon.

Maybe the roads have improved, but I wouldn't have wanted a light weight
road bicycle when I was riding in eastern China, mainly in Jiangsu
province, but also in Beijing.

I've ridden on the fairly new highways to the south, east, and west of
Shijiazhuang, Hebei. I also rode around Shijiazhuang city a lot and
have taken a bike around Beijing city.

Right now I'm on Hainan Island. I regularly ride around the city, and
I just recently went on the old highway from Danzhou to Haikou.

I'm not sure whether or not the roads have improved but the roads in
Hainan are definitely better than Hebei. Probably because of a lack of
winter.

-M

In article <[email hidden]>,
<"[email hidden]"> wrote:

Marian,

I am still confused as to what you would like us to help you with..

Therefore, I suggest that when you are buying a new bike, concentrate
first on fit, and then on the components and your favourite color your
budget will allow.

Where to find a good bike fitter?? A good source of advise would be
the local riding club. You mentioned that one of the stores do sponsor
one. Why not give them a shot? Since you speak pretty good Mandarin,
it shouldn't be difficult to communicate across your intention. They
would be able to give you an idea of what you need and really want and
may help you assist in your bike purchase.

Hope this helps and good luck..

David.

David said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
<"[email hidden]"> wrote:

Marian,

I am still confused as to what you would like us to help you with..

I wanted someone who speaks English who understands bicycles to put in
words basically what you said below ...

Quoted message said:

Therefore, I suggest that when you are buying a new bike, concentrate
first on fit, and then on the components and your favourite color your
budget will allow.

Cause the people I know either know absolutely nothing about bicycles
or know it all in Chinese.

Quite a few of the ones who know it in Chinese think I shouldn't bother
with much more than I've got because I'm a girl and it isn't like I'm
ever going to become truly serious about this. It was particularly
galling getting that attitude from someone who rides shorter distances
less often, and who is less serious and less capable than I am.

Quoted message said:

Where to find a good bike fitter?? A good source of advise would be
the local riding club. You mentioned that one of the stores do sponsor
one. Why not give them a shot? Since you speak pretty good Mandarin,
it shouldn't be difficult to communicate across your intention. They
would be able to give you an idea of what you need and really want and
may help you assist in your bike purchase.

They were extremely helpful to me when buying the first bike.

The salesman spent a while drooling over the bike-on-the-wall (at that
time a carbon frame Giant) at me. He wasn't actually trying to sell
it, he just wanted a good excuse to take it down off the wall and talk
about it. Then he recommended the bike I've got.

Now I've been around for a while. They know that I can afford the
bike-on-the-wall (currently a Bianchi) and have been less forthright in
offering me cheaper options despite protests that I'm too afraid of
thieves to buy something that expensive.

For the most part the people doing the selling at this store (and the
people buying from the back half of the store) are totally dedicated
bicycle nuts. I've gone to enough bike things to get mentally
classified as a "one of us." I'm still a newbie. But I'm a newbie
"us". A person who thinks bicycles are fun. The idea that "one of us"
could have enough money in the bank for such a bike and instead want to
buy a lesser bicycle is causing a mental disconnect.

Which is sort of why I was asking for advice on here.

A specific question -

Given that my daily rides have pretty good roads and don't have much in
the way of hills but my long long rides will have more hills and worse
roads which is better skinnier wheels or more gears?

-M

Quoted message said:

I also don't know anyone local who is competent in English who also
understands bicycles.

[...]

Quoted message said:

But I don't really know what I want. Other than better than what I've
got.

What are some of the things I should consider looking for?
And some of the things I should consider avoiding?

If I'm fiscally irresponsible I have enough money to buy the best road
bike currently in the shop and trick it out with the best accessories.
But, I don't need a wireless cyclocomputer or a brand name water
bottle. And my $100 bike is already an invitation to thieves.

Marian,

I can't help much, but if the problem you are trying to solve is figuring
out what 5000 or 10000 RMB worth of road bicycle should look like, so you
can get your local bike shop to order one for you or something, then should
you ever visit Hong Kong you might visit this shop

http://www.flyingball.com/

and let them try to sell you something. As far as I can figure out this
shop sells more road bikes than anywhere else in Hong Kong (though this
says less than you might think), so they've got a relatively large stock
of bicycles which sell for about the same price as you would pay in the US.
The people I've dealt with speak very fine English, and are more than
competent enough to explain to you what it is they're trying to sell you,
and why. If you take the component list from a bike you liked there, in
your price range, to your local shop for them to try to match you'll at
least have a reference point to make sure the local shop doesn't sell you
anything goofy.

As for other advice about what to buy, I'll reveal some biases by offering
opinions on a couple of issues. You'll probably find that, once you get
to the upper end of the price range above, the default configuration of
bikes tends to have only a pair of chain rings instead of 3, leaving off
the smallest one. I've never been to Hainan Island, and have no idea
what the topology is like, but if you have significant hills there and
you're climbing-challenged you might want to insist that the new bike
you buy still have triple chain rings. The third ring doesn't add much
weight, and for me makes it possible to ride up stuff I'd otherwise have
to walk up (Hong Kong Island, where I mostly ride, has no flat roads at
all to speak of, and my computer/altimeter reports a maximum grade of
24% on my usual daily ride).

I also think you would be well-served by trying to avoid wheels with
fewer than 32 spokes and tires less than 25mm wide if you have any
choice at all. While my experience there is limited to riding in
Hong Kong and touring some of the rural parts of Guangdong province,
the roads I've ridden in both places have been significantly crappier
than the roads I'm used to where I live in California and I cringe a
bit at the idea of riding a bike with low-spoke-count wheels and tiny
tires over these (though I do see people doing that anyway).

If you did decide not to buy a bike at your local shop after all, however,
but to instead purchase something at a bigger shop elsewhere, I'll put
in a plug for the Hong Kong bike shop mentioned above. I like the guys
that operate that shop a lot, and they did recently give me a very good
deal on a bike they'd had around for several years (someone put a deposit
on the bike, then left the country without actually completing the purchase).
Since the Hong Kong market is a bit upscale compared to much of China,
bikes in the price range you are looking at tend to be what gets stocked
in the shops in Hong Kong; you'll have a lot to choose from.

Good luck.

Dennis Ferguson

Quoted message said:

Given that my daily rides have pretty good roads and don't have much in
the way of hills but my long long rides will have more hills and worse
roads which is better skinnier wheels or more gears?

Definitely thicker tires and more gears. As long as you're
not riding knobbies, bigger tires don't have much more rolling
resistance.

--
Dane Buson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if
I had any firearms with me. I said, "Well, what do you need?"
-- Steven Wright

Dennis Ferguson said:

Quoted message said:

I also don't know anyone local who is competent in English who also
understands bicycles.

[...]

Quoted message said:

But I don't really know what I want. Other than better than what I've
got.

What are some of the things I should consider looking for?
And some of the things I should consider avoiding?

If I'm fiscally irresponsible I have enough money to buy the best road
bike currently in the shop and trick it out with the best accessories.
But, I don't need a wireless cyclocomputer or a brand name water
bottle. And my $100 bike is already an invitation to thieves.

Marian,

I can't help much, but if the problem you are trying to solve is figuring
out what 5000 or 10000 RMB worth of road bicycle should look like, so you
can get your local bike shop to order one for you or something, then should
you ever visit Hong Kong you might visit this shop

http://www.flyingball.com/

and let them try to sell you something. As far as I can figure out this
shop sells more road bikes than anywhere else in Hong Kong (though this
says less than you might think), so they've got a relatively large stock
of bicycles which sell for about the same price as you would pay in the US.
The people I've dealt with speak very fine English, and are more than
competent enough to explain to you what it is they're trying to sell you,
and why. If you take the component list from a bike you liked there, in
your price range, to your local shop for them to try to match you'll at
least have a reference point to make sure the local shop doesn't sell you
anything goofy.

I was there today in serious customer mode.

Part of my fear of being sold something goofy or unneccesary or
over-expensive was from watching them do it to a skinny little
librarian who usually rides 30 minutes a day in the city. Trek 4500,
jersey, shorts, Le Tour water bottles, special light weight water
bottle cages, wireless multifunction cyclocomputer etc etc...

After my first test ride (the bike they want me to try for a second
test ride is currently a frame on the wall and some components in boxes
on the second floor) I was chatting with the salesman about expensive
bikes in China versus expensive bikes in the US and mentioned that I
didn't want to be oversold unneccesary stuff the way they had this
woman.

He spent a fair bit of time making sure I knew they had absolutely no
intention of cheating someone who, if treated properly, would almost
certainly come back and spend still more money in the future.

The gist of it was we've already sold you one bike which subsequently
caused you to buy computer, gloves, helmet, jersey and shorts. Selling
you the right bike for your current skill/need is much better then
selling you something too expensive. That way, when you are ready for
the more expensive bike, we can be sure you'll come to us to buy it.

While this was going on one of the regulars (possibly another salesman,
or the boss, hard to tell, he's frequently in the bike shop, but lots
of people are frequently in the bike shop) came by to put his bike away
upstairs (at any given time there are anywhere between five and
twenty-five not-for-sale bikes upstairs) and spent ten minutes
demonstrating clipless pedals at me. Or for me. Or something like
that. I'm not sure how much of it was an actual honest-to-goodness
demonstration of the virtues of clipless pedals and how much of it was
a chance to talk to me. Especially since I don't think he was trying
to convince me that I needed or wanted clipless on this bike.

(Not to be conceited or anything like that but ... I'm a girl. I ride
bicycles for fun. And I'm blond. I've become rather accustomed to
having men in the club demonstrate new and interesting things to me
solely for the purpose of demonstrating them to me.)

Quoted message said:

As for other advice about what to buy, I'll reveal some biases by offering
opinions on a couple of issues. You'll probably find that, once you get
to the upper end of the price range above, the default configuration of
bikes tends to have only a pair of chain rings instead of 3, leaving off
the smallest one.

My current bike (816 rmb) only has a pair.

Quoted message said:

I've never been to Hainan Island, and have no idea
what the topology is like, but if you have significant hills there and
you're climbing-challenged you might want to insist that the new bike
you buy still have triple chain rings. The third ring doesn't add much
weight, and for me makes it possible to ride up stuff I'd otherwise have
to walk up (Hong Kong Island, where I mostly ride, has no flat roads at
all to speak of, and my computer/altimeter reports a maximum grade of
24% on my usual daily ride).

I understand that there are some pretty fierce and nasty hills on the
southern part of the round-the-island rides. For the October Holiday I
might be going on the first two days of one of those rides but because
I need to be in Shanghai on the third I don't think I'll hit any of
those before February.

On the 138 km ride from Danzhou to Haikou (or in my case 115 km and
Chengmai) the absolute worst climb had me going 3-4 kph for about 10
minutes. The second worst climb was going up to Fushan. 6-8kph for an
hour. I'm sure I'm counting wrong but it looks like the ratio is 40
(front small) to 28 (rear big) on my current 12 speed.

Quoted message said:

I also think you would be well-served by trying to avoid wheels with
fewer than 32 spokes and tires less than 25mm wide if you have any
choice at all.

I was somewhat surprised at how much choice I've actually got. Not
since coming in as a complete newbie have I been in the shop in my role
as serious customer. They've got all sorts of things that aren't
visible to the casual browser or person who came in to fill up a water
bottle, get tires checked, or replace a lost glove.

Quoted message said:

While my experience there is limited to riding in
Hong Kong and touring some of the rural parts of Guangdong province,
the roads I've ridden in both places have been significantly crappier
than the roads I'm used to where I live in California and I cringe a
bit at the idea of riding a bike with low-spoke-count wheels and tiny
tires over these (though I do see people doing that anyway).

On the plus side, all of my serious riding has been done in China. The
roads in Maryland (which has winter) are [censored] compared to Haikou City
but the countryside roads on this recent trip left something to be
desired. Mostly in terms of cow [censored] and herds of goats. Less in the
way of sudden three inch deep by six inch wide trenches across entire
lanes sort of nonsense (resulting in two flat tires this afternoon
around 1pm).

Quoted message said:

If you did decide not to buy a bike at your local shop after all, however,
but to instead purchase something at a bigger shop elsewhere, I'll put
in a plug for the Hong Kong bike shop mentioned above. I like the guys

What, and have to suffer through getting a re-entry visa? Even a new
bicycle isn't worth that.

I refuse to admit that Hong Kong is a part of China. Different spoken
language. Different writing system. Different currency. I have to go
through Customs and Immigration. I have to get a Hong Kong entry visa.
To return I need another Chinese visa.

In short - China may own Hong Kong but Hong Kong is not China.

Quoted message said:

that operate that shop a lot, and they did recently give me a very good
deal on a bike they'd had around for several years (someone put a deposit
on the bike, then left the country without actually completing the purchase).
Since the Hong Kong market is a bit upscale compared to much of China,
bikes in the price range you are looking at tend to be what gets stocked
in the shops in Hong Kong; you'll have a lot to choose from.

Good luck.

Thanks,
-M