Upgrade... the kind you don't ride

Jimbo said:

The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again…

brakes good.

Quoted message said:

Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you

carbon scary.

have fun with your "new" ride!

gabrielle

"gabrielle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Jimbo said:

The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.

brakes good.

Quoted message said:

Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you

carbon scary.

I've been toying with danger for over three years now. I keep thinking
about replacing the carbon bar when I'm riding but then forget when I'm not
riding....

I should order one now......

Gary

Quoted message said:

have fun with your "new" ride!

gabrielle

"GeeDubb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"gabrielle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Jimbo said:

The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.

brakes good.

Quoted message said:

Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you

Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?) they do?

Andy

"Andy H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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"GeeDubb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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"gabrielle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:

> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.

brakes good.

> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you

Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?) they do?

Andy

Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises. They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
one......so I have a death wish!
Gary

GeeDubb said:

"Andy H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"GeeDubb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"gabrielle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
>
>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.
> brakes good.
>
>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
>

Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?) they do?

Andy

Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises. They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
one......so I have a death wish!
Gary

Same here on the id and racer-x. Well, the road bike too but I'm just
waiting to get picked off anyway.

If Thompson made bars, I'd be all over it. I can't understand why he
hasn't gone that way yet.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

"GeeDubb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.

They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with

Quoted message said:

one......so I have a death wish!
Gary

Ditto.

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

GeeDubb said:

"Andy H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"GeeDubb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"gabrielle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
>
>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.
>
> brakes good.
>
>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
>
>

Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?)
they do? Andy

Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.
They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
one......so I have a death wish! Gary

*sigh* more myth being perpetuated...

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:%zAXe.27196$hp.14482@lakeread08...

Quoted message said:

GeeDubb said:

"Andy H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"GeeDubb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> "gabrielle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
>>
>>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.
>>
>> brakes good.
>>
>>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
>>
>>
>
>
Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?)
they do? Andy

Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.
They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
one......so I have a death wish! Gary

*sigh* more myth being perpetuated...

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

So what is the truth squid? I've only heard the myth to date but I wouldn't
mind giving a carbon bar a go for it's reputed ability to absorb vibes/shock
better than alloy 'cos me wrist's are getting a bit sore these days
(sparkies syndrome you know).

Andy

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:%zAXe.27196$hp.14482@lakeread08...

Quoted message said:

GeeDubb said:

"Andy H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"GeeDubb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> "gabrielle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
>>
>>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.
>>
>> brakes good.
>>
>>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
>>
>>
>
>
Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?)
they do? Andy

Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.
They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
one......so I have a death wish! Gary

*sigh* more myth being perpetuated...

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

I've seen it happen plus being a Materials Engineer gives me plenty of
opportunity to quiz the composite guys. So what's the real story?

Gary

Jimbo (san) said:

<shnip>

I guess I just have to live up to the fact I am a fat guy on a fat
bike...

At least I can stop it now

--
Jimbo(san)

Guys who ride in hockey jerseys should never ride weight-weenie bikes.
Period.

/s

Squid-in-Training said:

GeeDubb wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.
They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
one......so I have a death wish! Gary

*sigh* more myth being perpetuated...

Have you seen a carbon "thingy" (handlebar, frame, kayak paddle) fail? I
have. It's nasty, and not something I'd want on the front of my bike. I
like my chest in one piece, TYVM.

gabrielle

gabrielle said:

Squid-in-Training said:

GeeDubb wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking
noises. They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
one......so I have a death wish! Gary

*sigh* more myth being perpetuated...

Have you seen a carbon "thingy" (handlebar, frame, kayak paddle)
fail?

Sure - we had to extract a broken seatpost last week at the shop.

Quoted message said:

I have. It's nasty, and not something I'd want on the front
of my bike. I like my chest in one piece, TYVM.

Then tell me about the failure mode. I've seen a car wrapped around a tree.
It's horrific, and not something I'd want to be involved in. Therefore, I
won't use a car.

If you take care of your stuff, you examine it for cracks or marks of any
kind, and you don't ride oblivious to what could be wrong, then you'll be
fine.

Ask yourself this: if carbon fiber was so deadly, so apt to fail, so
dangerous, and so chest-impaling, how could the Consumer Product Safety
Commission keep any structural CF bicycle products on the market? Sure
there are a few bad apples, but then there are plenty of bad-apple aluminum
components. That's a result of bad design.

Carbon/aluminum seatposts are a bad idea, IMO, because the epoxy binding the
Al clamp portion to the shaft portion is simply not up to snuff. Carbon
handlebars, on the other hand, are not something to pull your hair out over.

By the way, kayak paddle? That's asking for failure... rocks and logs and
sharp things gouging into the surface will undoubtedly cause it to fail
after enough cycles...

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" snip extraneous stuff

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen it happen plus being a Materials Engineer gives me plenty of
opportunity to quiz the composite guys. So what's the real story?

Gary

Great! So then why don't you say that crack initiation starts with
miniscule surface finish imperfections that grow into larger cracks with a
higher number of cycles?

That's the clue: You, me and anybody else but superman can't see the
imperfections or small scratches that cause the ultimate failure unless you
use a fairly large magnifying glass. The bar in particular I'm talking
about had never been in a crash, didn't appear (to the naked eye) to be
damaged in anyway prior to it snapping. The rider was about 165 lbs and was
riding x-country stuff.

Sure it's less than metals, but don't tell me that

Quoted message said:

a properly-made carbon fiber handlebar (with an infinite fatigue life)

I guess that's why they take cf blades (aerospace stuff) out of service
after so many hours of use???

will

Quoted message said:

"just break and your f**ked." A rider should be examining for scratches
or characteristics that would cause such a component to fail. This kind
of scaremongering these days is out for companies to cover their asses.

Tell me that the bike was crashed; tell me that the handlebar was
scratched up circumferentially near the stem clamp; tell me that there was
an overweight rider using stupid-light handlebars. But don't tell me that
"They just break and your f**ked... so I have a death wish."

They do just break because the normal individual doesn't have the ability to
detect the flaws. No, they don't break for no reason but it's not nearly as
evident as Al bars that give you some warning (usually audible and visible
if you're looking).

Quoted message said:

I had a teammate of mine tell me that a bike shop wouldn't bend his Hayes
hydro lever blades back straight because they were aluminum and they would
fatigue and break on him if they bent them back 5 degrees. More CYA in
effect. The factor of safety in a component like this is probably way
over anything anyone would come close to even with repeated bends.

FYI, I raced my re-welded beer-can aluminum XTC frame (rewelded on the
chainstay near the BB even!) with no problems this past weekend. No heat
treatment... if/when it fails, I'll let you guys know.

Why'd it break, originally? Impact? Fatigue? Both? And when it breaks
again, I doubt you won't be given some warning, visible or audible.

Gary

Quoted message said:

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

GeeDubb said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" snip extraneous stuff

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen it happen plus being a Materials Engineer gives me plenty
of opportunity to quiz the composite guys. So what's the real
story? Gary

Great! So then why don't you say that crack initiation starts with
miniscule surface finish imperfections that grow into larger cracks
with a higher number of cycles?

That's the clue: You, me and anybody else but superman can't see the
imperfections or small scratches that cause the ultimate failure
unless you use a fairly large magnifying glass. The bar in
particular I'm talking about had never been in a crash, didn't appear
(to the naked eye) to be damaged in anyway prior to it snapping. The
rider was about 165 lbs and was riding x-country stuff.

Did you examine it *before* it broke?

Quoted message said:

Sure it's less than metals, but don't tell me that

Quoted message said:

a properly-made carbon fiber handlebar (with an infinite fatigue
life)

I guess that's why they take cf blades (aerospace stuff) out of
service after so many hours of use???

Turbine blades? Which ones in particular, because I've never heard of
blades being made of CF... it gets way too hot, so much that the superalloy
needs a zirconium coating to insulate it from the heat.

Quoted message said:

will

Quoted message said:

"just break and your f**ked." A rider should be examining for
scratches or characteristics that would cause such a component to
fail. This kind of scaremongering these days is out for companies
to cover their asses. Tell me that the bike was crashed; tell me that the
handlebar was
scratched up circumferentially near the stem clamp; tell me that
there was an overweight rider using stupid-light handlebars. But
don't tell me that "They just break and your f**ked... so I have a
death wish."

They do just break because the normal individual doesn't have the
ability to detect the flaws. No, they don't break for no reason but
it's not nearly as evident as Al bars that give you some warning
(usually audible and visible if you're looking).

In your opinion, are they safe? Do they need warning stickers stating that
they need to be evaluated or even replaced after every crash? Did your bars
have a warning pamphlet/sticker? Is it really as dangerous for the average
person as you seem to imply? Should they be on the market, in your opinion?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I had a teammate of mine tell me that a bike shop wouldn't bend his
Hayes hydro lever blades back straight because they were aluminum
and they would fatigue and break on him if they bent them back 5
degrees. More CYA in effect. The factor of safety in a component
like this is probably way over anything anyone would come close to
even with repeated bends. FYI, I raced my re-welded beer-can aluminum XTC
frame (rewelded on
the chainstay near the BB even!) with no problems this past weekend.
No heat treatment... if/when it fails, I'll let you guys know.

Why'd it break, originally? Impact? Fatigue? Both? And when it
breaks again, I doubt you won't be given some warning, visible or
audible.

A combination of impacts with successive fatigue, worsened by residual
stresses from the dents of the impacts. I'll get some pictures up sometime.
I'm not sure exactly what happened... it's actually a customer's warranteed
frame that was headed for the dumpster. Plus if it breaks, the rear wheel
will, at the worst, skew aside in the dropouts and lock up. No real biggie.

I understand your caution... I was a bit rude with my comments. It's always
better to be safe than sorry. Plus, I get to play with peoples' "broken"
stuff! 😉

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" knows what we're talking about so.....

tired of reading between the lines! I was talking helicoptor tail rotors
but now that I think about them I believe they are a composite using both
aluminum and carbon fiber.

bottom line was I didn't check the bar prior to it breaking. The guy riding
claims he checks his bikes thoroughly so I can only take his word. It was a
nasty thing to see but then I've also seen the (aftermath) steer tube break
off an aluminum bike. That sort of failure should have been obvious to the
guy riding it, after all, he is an engineer for Honeywell (old Garrett
turbine engine division)........

I'm still riding a 3.5 year old cf bar (~4500 off road miles) and probably
won't replace it until I have to. Visually it's intact but I haven't got
the big glass to check for small cracks/abrasions. I've crashed with it and
mounted lights on it on wierd angles and probably have scratched the
surface. I'm also 195 lbs and pretty hard on it. It still looks and feels
solid. Should I replace it? Probably. I'm too cheap.

GAry