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Rita evacuation

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Road Cycling
Published
22 September 2005
Last activity
24 September 2005
Original author
Will
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  1. Will wrote:
    :: di wrote:
    ::
    ::: Geez, do you have any idea how big Houston is? 40 miles out from
    ::: downtown you would still be in major development. When I lived
    ::: there it was about 60 miles of continuous development to Galveston,
    ::: and at least 15-20 miles of development north of me, that is
    ::: probably 25-30 miles now.
    ::
    :: Never been to Houston, but I lived in Atlanta (ughh!). So the sprawl
    :: sounds familiar. And that experience is why I'm pro-bike for
    :: evacuations. I cannot see getting this done with cars. The NYT is
    :: reporting a 112 mile backup. 112 miles! Someone is going to go postal
    :: in that mess.

    Most folks would have a hard time doing even 40 miles on a bike.

  2. "Will" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    di said:

    Geez, do you have any idea how big Houston is? 40 miles out from
    downtown
    you would still be in major development. When I lived there it was
    about
    60 miles of continuous development to Galveston, and at least 15-20 miles
    of
    development north of me, that is probably 25-30 miles now.

    Never been to Houston, but I lived in Atlanta (ughh!). So the sprawl
    sounds familiar. And that experience is why I'm pro-bike for
    evacuations. I cannot see getting this done with cars. The NYT is
    reporting a 112 mile backup. 112 miles! Someone is going to go postal
    in that mess.

    It's almost as bad on a Friday afternoon before a 3 day holiday. Houston's
    problem is there are so many rivers and creeks to cross, one cannot use
    secondary roads to get out of town, interstates are the about the only
    option. I'm betting the roads will be clear before the storm hits.

  3. gds said:


    You are oversimpllifying a very real problem to the point where I think
    you are totally oblivious to the reality of the situation.

    Quoted message said:

    I like bike riding too, but it is not the answer
    to every problem.

    Well... and there is no intention to turn the discussion into one of
    those polemics, I think relying on the car is a comparable form of
    simplification. Don't know what to do? Get in the car... Right away
    you're in the paradigm of filling the trunk with "stuff" and merging
    into the 3 or 4 lane highway (which is gridlocked). When I look at the
    wind "cone" on noaa.gov, I see that once you get inland 60 or 70 miles,
    you're out of the worst of the storm. Will you get wet, yes? Will you
    be in winds over 50 mph? NO.

    I spent some time in S.E. Asia. I saw lots of people on lots of bikes.
    You could probably evacuate the population of Hanoi or Saigon pretty
    effectively. Neither are Houston by any stretch of the imagination. On
    the other hand, we might agree they are able to get out of harm's
    way... with their grandparents and their children, even their geese.

  4. gds said:

    You are oversimpllifying a very real problem to the point where I think
    you are totally oblivious to the reality of the situation. Your
    suggestion is like the idea of wiping out poverty by just giving
    everyone some money. I like bike riding too, but it is not the answer
    to every problem.

    I agree. Again, just like Katrina, not everyone will leave (even under
    mandatory evac orders). There will be mass confusion and mob mentality.
    There will be anger, finger pointing, and disgust with local, state
    and federal goverments.

    Most people have not planned for disaster evacuations. There will be
    breakdowns in communication. People will want to take too much with
    them. Families that own two or three cars will take all of their
    vehicles, even though it adds to congestion. People with RVs will take
    them, blocking traffic and adding to the mess.

    Pets are a big issue, so some people will stay behind because they can't
    take them with them. Some people will die because of this.

    Finally, the big question: Where are these people supposed to go? Not
    everyone has family in other parts of the state. Hotel rooms are
    undoubtedly booked up or closed down, and the uncertainty of the
    situation is very real and frightening to many people. It's easier to
    stay and say "I think we'll be all right."

    Virtually nobody is going to use a bicycle to get out of town, as much
    as we might like to see it. Yes, it makes sense, and yes, a bike can
    move faster than a car in gridlock. A few people may use a bike, but
    for most people this isn't an option.

  5. Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:57:46 -0500, <[email hidden]>,

    catzz66 said:

    If you think Houston is difficult, can you even begin to imagine what it
    would be like in LA or NYC? No one would be ready for anything like
    that either.

    The trick isn't to stop global warming, it's too late for that.
    The trick is learning to live with it. It's here.

    Or battle to control the weather. Some say that's here too.
    --
    zk

  6. 22 Sep 2005 14:07:12 -0700,
    <[email hidden]>, "gds"

    Quoted message said:

    Will wrote:
    .

    Quoted message said:


    Never been to Houston, but I lived in Atlanta (ughh!). So the sprawl
    sounds familiar. And that experience is why I'm pro-bike for
    evacuations. I cannot see getting this done with cars. The NYT is
    reporting a 112 mile backup. 112 miles! Someone is going to go postal
    in that mess.

    "It is said that the only time a person feels more important than the
    whole of his community is when he is insane--or when he is driving."
    - Travis Culley

    Quoted message said:


    OK Will I understand and share your frustration with the status quo.
    But let's get serious. You really believe that you can move over a
    million people over 100 miles by bike?!?!

    "It takes three lanes of a given size to move 40,000 people across a
    bridge in one hour by using automated trains, four to move them on
    buses, twelve to move them in their cars, and only two lanes for them
    to pedal across on bicycles."
    - Ivan Illich
    --
    zk

  7. Zoot Katz said:

    The trick isn't to stop global warming, it's too late for that.
    The trick is learning to live with it. It's here.

    It's even reached Mars! Our evil influence knows no bounds!

    Quoted message said:

    Or battle to control the weather. Some say that's here too.

    I knew it! Bush could've steered Katrina away from NOLA if he'd wanted to,
    but then how could he have covered up exploding the levees? Ingenius!!!

    NF

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    gds said:

    Think D-Day not a bike ride.

    Dunkirk, anyway.

    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

  9. "Will" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Last week's evac thread on Katrina discussed a cycling alternative.
    Here's the latest from CNN's web page on Rita:

    "Hundreds of thousands of people in Texas and Louisiana headed inland
    today as Hurricane Rita moved toward the Gulf Coast. But many weren't
    getting far. Houston resident Tim Conklin said he had been stuck in
    bumper-to-bumper traffic for 13 hours and made it only 48 miles. On the
    main road between Houston and Austin, people were pushing their cars
    and minivans to save gas."

    Got that... 48 miles in 13 hours on the interstate. People are
    pushing cars.
    You can walk out faster...

    I have to say, from a UK perspective (used to moaning about a little bit of
    rain), that OK, this is a big storm. Big, big, big. I could probably cover a
    300 miles on my bike in a couple of days if pushed (not literally pushed ..
    I mean if I have to). But are there places to get food on the way? Is 300
    miles nearly enough? Can I cycle that distance through gridlocked traffic
    with car doors opening every each way and people wandering around the
    highways? I don't know. But if you're 200 miles out, you'd be fine right?
    I'd just dig a hole in the ground or something. Not by the coast, obviously.

    Is this a good reason to learn how to become a hunter .. snaring rabbits etc
    .... ??

  10. Joe Canuck [email protected] said:

    Open up the south bound lanes for north bound traffic.

    They did that according to one of the articles I read...

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

  11. Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:51:14 GMT, <[email hidden]>,

    Nuck 'n Futz said:
    Quoted message said:

    Or battle to control the weather. Some say that's here too.

    I knew it! Bush could've steered Katrina away from NOLA if he'd wanted to,

    There was more money to be made steering toward NOLA.

    Quoted message said:

    but then how could he have covered up exploding the levees?

    Yeah, where is that damn bin Laden when you need him!
    --
    zk

  12. "elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Will" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Last week's evac thread on Katrina discussed a cycling alternative.
    Here's the latest from CNN's web page on Rita:

    "Hundreds of thousands of people in Texas and Louisiana headed inland
    today as Hurricane Rita moved toward the Gulf Coast. But many weren't
    getting far. Houston resident Tim Conklin said he had been stuck in
    bumper-to-bumper traffic for 13 hours and made it only 48 miles. On the
    main road between Houston and Austin, people were pushing their cars
    and minivans to save gas."

    Got that... 48 miles in 13 hours on the interstate. People are
    pushing cars.
    You can walk out faster...

    I have to say, from a UK perspective (used to moaning about a little bit
    of rain), that OK, this is a big storm. Big, big, big. I could probably
    cover a 300 miles on my bike in a couple of days if pushed (not literally
    pushed .. I mean if I have to). But are there places to get food on the
    way? Is 300 miles nearly enough? Can I cycle that distance through
    gridlocked traffic with car doors opening every each way and people
    wandering around the highways? I don't know. But if you're 200 miles out,
    you'd be fine right? I'd just dig a hole in the ground or something. Not
    by the coast, obviously.

    Is this a good reason to learn how to become a hunter .. snaring rabbits
    etc ... ??

    If you planned your route well you could have a 175mph tailwind to help you.
    But you had better hurry before it becomes 175mph headwind.


  13. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Got that... 48 miles in 13 hours on the interstate. People are
    pushing cars.
    You can walk out faster...

    I have to say, from a UK perspective (used to moaning about a little bit
    of rain), that OK, this is a big storm. Big, big, big. I could probably
    cover a 300 miles on my bike in a couple of days if pushed (not literally
    pushed .. I mean if I have to). But are there places to get food on the
    way? Is 300 miles nearly enough? Can I cycle that distance through
    gridlocked traffic with car doors opening every each way and people
    wandering around the highways? I don't know. But if you're 200 miles out,
    you'd be fine right? I'd just dig a hole in the ground or something. Not
    by the coast, obviously.

    Is this a good reason to learn how to become a hunter .. snaring rabbits
    etc ... ??

    I'm fully evacuated. I took a good BM this AM and another one this PM.

    I also live 3,000 miles away.

    Therefore, I don't really give a rat's ass about Texas. As for New Orleans,
    finish the [censored] hole off. Cover it with sand and make it a large park.
    Name the park Mayor Nagin Park. Put a large monument in the middle of the
    park. Governor Blanco in the nude, thinking and crying.

    As I said, don't care. Texas sucks. Louisiana sucks even more.

  14. Thomas Wentworth said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Got that... 48 miles in 13 hours on the interstate. People are
    pushing cars.
    You can walk out faster...

    I have to say, from a UK perspective (used to moaning about a little bit
    of rain), that OK, this is a big storm. Big, big, big. I could probably
    cover a 300 miles on my bike in a couple of days if pushed (not literally
    pushed .. I mean if I have to). But are there places to get food on the
    way? Is 300 miles nearly enough? Can I cycle that distance through
    gridlocked traffic with car doors opening every each way and people
    wandering around the highways? I don't know. But if you're 200 miles out,
    you'd be fine right? I'd just dig a hole in the ground or something. Not
    by the coast, obviously.

    Is this a good reason to learn how to become a hunter .. snaring rabbits
    etc ... ??

    I'm fully evacuated. I took a good BM this AM and another one this PM.

    I also live 3,000 miles away.

    Therefore, I don't really give a rat's ass about Texas. As for New Orleans,
    finish the [censored] hole off. Cover it with sand and make it a large park.
    Name the park Mayor Nagin Park. Put a large monument in the middle of the
    park. Governor Blanco in the nude, thinking and crying.

    As I said, don't care. Texas sucks. Louisiana sucks even more.

    You /sure/ you shat? Sound a tad backed up to me....

  15. "Will" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Last week's evac thread on Katrina discussed a cycling alternative.
    Here's the latest from CNN's web page on Rita:

    "Hundreds of thousands of people in Texas and Louisiana headed inland
    today as Hurricane Rita moved toward the Gulf Coast. But many weren't
    getting far. Houston resident Tim Conklin said he had been stuck in
    bumper-to-bumper traffic for 13 hours and made it only 48 miles. On the
    main road between Houston and Austin, people were pushing their cars
    and minivans to save gas."

    Got that... 48 miles in 13 hours on the interstate. People are
    pushing cars.
    You can walk out faster...

    Will

    But they can't bring their stuff. I don't know how I could ride or walk out
    with two cats and my valuables.

  16. Gooserider said:

    But they can't bring their stuff. I don't know how I could ride or walk out
    with two cats and my valuables.

    Bike trailer?
    --
    Ben Pfaff
    email: [email hidden]
    web: http://benpfaff.org

  17. elyob said:


    I have to say, from a UK perspective (used to moaning about a little
    bit of rain), that OK, this is a big storm. Big, big, big.

    Yup. I understand that the larger hurricanes have destruction
    footprints which would cover all of Old Blighty. Frightening thought,
    that.

    --
    Robert Uhl <http://public.xdi.org/=ruhl>
    His troops would follow him anywhere, but only out of curiosity.

  18. Ben Pfaff said:
    Gooserider said:

    But they can't bring their stuff. I don't know how I could ride or walk out
    with two cats and my valuables.

    Bike trailer?

    for three million people?

    Don't get me wrong, I'd grab the roadie, cry about leaving the fixie and
    get out of there. But I don't have much attachment to things other than
    my records, cds and bikes...some of which are replacable.

    \\paul

    --
    Paul M. Hobson
    Georgia Institute of Technology
    ..:change the words to numbers
    if you want to reply to me:.

  19. "elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I have to say, from a UK perspective (used to moaning about a little bit
    of rain), that OK, this is a big storm. Big, big, big. I could probably
    cover a 300 miles on my bike in a couple of days if pushed (not literally
    pushed .. I mean if I have to). But are there places to get food on the
    way? Is 300 miles nearly enough? Can I cycle that distance through
    gridlocked traffic with car doors opening every each way and people
    wandering around the highways? I don't know. But if you're 200 miles out,
    you'd be fine right? I'd just dig a hole in the ground or something. Not
    by the coast, obviously.

    Is this a good reason to learn how to become a hunter .. snaring rabbits
    etc ... ??

    Must admit, looking at the TV coverage of the Houston evacuation on this
    side of the pond, if I were in it I'd be putting the panniers on the bikes,
    bungee-cording a cat carrier to the top of the rack and setting off by bike.
    I've got a friend in the Houston area. She has family with her who evacuated
    from New Orleans. They cannot get out of where they are due to gridlock, &
    lack of fuel on the evacuation routes. A family member tried to evacuate but
    got nowhere so managed to turn round and get back home. I've a feeling she &
    her family aren't the only ones who will be staying put, not out of choice
    but because they feel effectively trapped in a fence of motor vehicles.

    It does make you think hard about what you'd *need* to take as opposed to
    what you'd *want* to take with you. For a different root cause I've had to
    think about this personally - at the end of my garden is a stream. It's
    lovely, but at some time in the future it'll likely flood me in winter. A
    few years ago I woke up one morning to find my house surrounded by water on
    three sides. In those circumstances it's stuff such as family photos & stuff
    money cannot replace that are stored upstairs. Mere possessions are not
    important in the great scheme of things. Gradually over time I'm adapting
    the house to limit flood damage. But that costs money and as a result it has
    to be done in stages rather than all at once. I feel for those affected by
    the current weather. It makes me realise more and more we *have* to get away
    from our reliance on the motor vehicle...

    Cheers, helen s

  20. "Ben Pfaff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Gooserider said:

    But they can't bring their stuff. I don't know how I could ride or walk
    out
    with two cats and my valuables.

    Bike trailer?

    Two cats, four bikes, and several long guns in a trailer? Not going to
    happen. It would be irresponsible to leave either the cats or long guns
    behind, so a car is , unfortunately, the way to go.

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