Low Carb and Fatty Liver

From high fat and cholesterol not from low carb.

"nani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and

have

Quoted message said:

pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

"nani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and
have pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

Uh-huh. And how many years before that were you high-carbing? Fatty liver is
helped, not caused or made worse, by low carbing.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/74/72Kg

"nani" : Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months
and have
: pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

My son, a college student, was found to have fatty liver. The doc said it
was from too much beer consumption. So, there is also an alcohol connection
with fatty liver.

Pat in TX
:
:

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My son, a college student, was found to have fatty liver. The doc said it
was from too much beer consumption. So, there is also an alcohol

connection

Quoted message said:

with fatty liver.

I've got it and haven't had any alcohol for more than 30 years. I was
told it's from being fat.

nani said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and have
pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

Non-alcoholic fatty liver is caused by high insulin levels. In other
words, it is a direct result of the current ultra high carb diet. The
best treatment is reducing carbohydrate consumption.

Cookie

nani said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and have
pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

Seems like there are a number of ways of getting a fatty liver. One
way is heredity (e.g., congenital cirhossis). The second (and most
well-known) way is drinking too much. The third way is eating badly.
Morgan Spurlock in "Super Size Me" apparently gave himself
significantly elevated liver function tests by eating a high-carb, high
fat diet, and apparently was well on his way to liver failure prior to
his 30-day experiment ending.

nani <[email hidden]> wrote:
|| Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few
|| months and have pain that was checked by ultrasound and found
|| to be a fatty liver.

How long did it take you to get that way? Just a few months
of low carb is not likely to correct a condition you reached
over a long period of time.

BJ
--
"Borrow money from pessimists--they don't expect it back."

: > My son, a college student, was found to have fatty liver. The doc said
it
: > was from too much beer consumption. So, there is also an alcohol
: connection
: > with fatty liver.
:
: I've got it and haven't had any alcohol for more than 30 years. I was
: told it's from being fat.

I'm just saying that alcohol can be associated with this condition. Not
everyone with it, of course.

Pat in Tx
:
:

: || Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few
: || months and have pain that was checked by ultrasound and found
: || to be a fatty liver.
:
: How long did it take you to get that way? Just a few months
: of low carb is not likely to correct a condition you reached
: over a long period of time.
:
: BJ

You know what this discussion reminds me of? When somebody takes a drug, has
a procedure, or eats something new---and then a problem comes up and it just
"must" be because they took the Zocor or had a Cardiac Catheterization or
ate some almonds. It's the old "cause and effect" misunderstanding. It
ain't necessarily so!

Pat in TX

nani said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and have
pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

Fatty liver disease in ducks:

A copyrighted article from the Chicago Tribune:

This city is considering a proposal to trim fatty goose and duck livers
from the menus of Chicago restaurants, stirring debate over whether it
has a right to tell people what they can put on their plates.

Kenneth Dickerman for The New York Times
"Foie gras has been around since the age of cuisine. Some animals are
raised for food. They're raised to die."
Rick Tramanto
Chef at Tru in Chicago

Kenneth Dickerman for The New York Times
"Our culture does not condone the torture of innocent and defenseless
creatures."
Joe Moore
Chicago Alderman
"Our laws are a reflection of our culture," said Joe Moore, an alderman
who has proposed banning the sale of foie gras in the city, as he
addressed the council's health committee on Tuesday. "Our culture does
not condone the torture of innocent and defenseless creatures. And we
as a society believe all God's creatures should be treated humanely."

Foie gras, which means "fatty liver" in French and is most commonly
served in upscale restaurants, is produced by force-feeding grain to
ducks and geese several times a day through a pipe that is inserted in
their throats, causing their livers to expand up to 10 times their
normal size within weeks.

Charlie Trotter, the celebrity chef whose restaurant here bears his
name, quietly stopped serving the dish four years ago after he visited
foie gras farms and was appalled at how it was produced. His decision
made newspaper headlines in March and inspired Mr. Moore's proposal,
which could be voted on by the end of the year. "I never wanted to
become the de facto poster boy for the no foie gras movement," Mr.
Trotter said. The proposal follows a unanimous vote in the State Senate
to ban force-feeding birds for the production of foie gras in Illinois.
It will be considered by the House next year. Last year, California
banned the production and sale of foie gras starting in 2012, and
legislation regulating it has been introduced in New York,
Massachusetts and Oregon.

Marcus Henley, operations manager for Hudson Valley Foie Gras in New
York, one of three foie gras producers in the country, said that the
birds were not treated cruelly and that scientific evidence showed they
did not suffer. "The anthropomorphism makes this a very easy sell," Mr.
Henley said of the bans.

Although Mr. Trotter, 46, stopped serving foie gras, he questioned the
government's role in banning it, saying the decision should be left up
to consumers and business owners.

"It's pretty soon going to be legislated to death, and pretty soon we
won't need to think because the government will think for us," Mr.
Trotter said.

Rick Tramonto, 43, a well-known Chicago chef at the restaurant Tru,
called the proposed ban a travesty and said he wondered where the line
would be drawn because other animals, like chickens, were mistreated.
"Foie gras has been around since the age of cuisine," Mr. Tramonto
said. "Some animals are raised for food. They're raised to die."

Last spring, Mr. Tramonto and Mr. Trotter got into a name-calling spat
over the matter.

Mr. Tramonto was quoted in The Chicago Tribune as calling Mr. Trotter
hypocritical for selling other animal products but not foie gras. Mr.
Trotter, in turn, told the newspaper that Mr. Tramonto was not "the
smartest guy on the block."

Both men said on Tuesday that the disagreement was blown out of
proportion and that they respected each other's opinions.

"I think we both regretted sort of getting dragged into the mud," Mr.
Trotter said. "The real story is to eat or not to eat foie gras."

Other Chicago restaurant owners that serve foie gras agreed that
restaurants and consumers should be able to make their own decisions.

"I don't think it's really something that the city should be choosing
for everyone," said Stephanie Izard, chef and owner of Scylla, one of
at least 16 Chicago restaurants that serve foie gras. "Lezlie Keebler,
a managing partner at Chestnut Grill and Wine Bar, said she would
prefer not to sell it but does because it is popular. "I tell my chefs,
you have to serve things people want to eat, not things you want them
to eat," Ms. Keebler said. Some foie gras defenders argue that
regulation is a slippery slope. "Government should not regulate how a
farmer produces something," said John Hawkins, news service director
for the Illinois Farm Bureau, which opposed the state legislation. "It
would set a precedent."

But Holly Cheever, a veterinarian in Guilderland, N.Y., who spoke at
the Chicago hearing, said she thought the city should "take a stand
against such outrageous and heinous cruelty" by banning the sale of
foie gras. "Even in the worst cases," Ms. Cheever said, referring to
treatment of other animals for food production, "nothing touches this
in terms of the cruelty involved."

Colleen McShane, president of the Illinois Restaurant Association, said
the group planned to speak against the ban at the next City Hall
hearing, which could be held as early as next month. "The government
should not be telling us what to put on our menus unless it's a health
issue," Ms. McShane said.

I guess this just means that if you gorge yourself all the way to
early-stage liver failure, you're behaving like one of those ducks
(except, of course, in this case you're electing to force-feed
yourself).

Cookie Cutter said:

nani said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and have
pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

Fatty liver disease in ducks:

A copyrighted article from the Chicago Tribune:

This city is considering a proposal to trim fatty goose and duck livers
from the menus of Chicago restaurants, stirring debate over whether it
has a right to tell people what they can put on their plates.

Kenneth Dickerman for The New York Times
"Foie gras has been around since the age of cuisine. Some animals are
raised for food. They're raised to die."
Rick Tramanto
Chef at Tru in Chicago

Kenneth Dickerman for The New York Times
"Our culture does not condone the torture of innocent and defenseless
creatures."
Joe Moore
Chicago Alderman
"Our laws are a reflection of our culture," said Joe Moore, an alderman
who has proposed banning the sale of foie gras in the city, as he
addressed the council's health committee on Tuesday. "Our culture does
not condone the torture of innocent and defenseless creatures. And we
as a society believe all God's creatures should be treated humanely."

Foie gras, which means "fatty liver" in French and is most commonly
served in upscale restaurants, is produced by force-feeding grain to
ducks and geese several times a day through a pipe that is inserted in
their throats, causing their livers to expand up to 10 times their
normal size within weeks.

Charlie Trotter, the celebrity chef whose restaurant here bears his
name, quietly stopped serving the dish four years ago after he visited
foie gras farms and was appalled at how it was produced. His decision
made newspaper headlines in March and inspired Mr. Moore's proposal,
which could be voted on by the end of the year. "I never wanted to
become the de facto poster boy for the no foie gras movement," Mr.
Trotter said. The proposal follows a unanimous vote in the State Senate
to ban force-feeding birds for the production of foie gras in Illinois.
It will be considered by the House next year. Last year, California
banned the production and sale of foie gras starting in 2012, and
legislation regulating it has been introduced in New York,
Massachusetts and Oregon.

Marcus Henley, operations manager for Hudson Valley Foie Gras in New
York, one of three foie gras producers in the country, said that the
birds were not treated cruelly and that scientific evidence showed they
did not suffer. "The anthropomorphism makes this a very easy sell," Mr.
Henley said of the bans.

Although Mr. Trotter, 46, stopped serving foie gras, he questioned the
government's role in banning it, saying the decision should be left up
to consumers and business owners.

"It's pretty soon going to be legislated to death, and pretty soon we
won't need to think because the government will think for us," Mr.
Trotter said.

Rick Tramonto, 43, a well-known Chicago chef at the restaurant Tru,
called the proposed ban a travesty and said he wondered where the line
would be drawn because other animals, like chickens, were mistreated.
"Foie gras has been around since the age of cuisine," Mr. Tramonto
said. "Some animals are raised for food. They're raised to die."

Last spring, Mr. Tramonto and Mr. Trotter got into a name-calling spat
over the matter.

Mr. Tramonto was quoted in The Chicago Tribune as calling Mr. Trotter
hypocritical for selling other animal products but not foie gras. Mr.
Trotter, in turn, told the newspaper that Mr. Tramonto was not "the
smartest guy on the block."

Both men said on Tuesday that the disagreement was blown out of
proportion and that they respected each other's opinions.

"I think we both regretted sort of getting dragged into the mud," Mr.
Trotter said. "The real story is to eat or not to eat foie gras."

Other Chicago restaurant owners that serve foie gras agreed that
restaurants and consumers should be able to make their own decisions.

"I don't think it's really something that the city should be choosing
for everyone," said Stephanie Izard, chef and owner of Scylla, one of
at least 16 Chicago restaurants that serve foie gras. "Lezlie Keebler,
a managing partner at Chestnut Grill and Wine Bar, said she would
prefer not to sell it but does because it is popular. "I tell my chefs,
you have to serve things people want to eat, not things you want them
to eat," Ms. Keebler said. Some foie gras defenders argue that
regulation is a slippery slope. "Government should not regulate how a
farmer produces something," said John Hawkins, news service director
for the Illinois Farm Bureau, which opposed the state legislation. "It
would set a precedent."

But Holly Cheever, a veterinarian in Guilderland, N.Y., who spoke at
the Chicago hearing, said she thought the city should "take a stand
against such outrageous and heinous cruelty" by banning the sale of
foie gras. "Even in the worst cases," Ms. Cheever said, referring to
treatment of other animals for food production, "nothing touches this
in terms of the cruelty involved."

Colleen McShane, president of the Illinois Restaurant Association, said
the group planned to speak against the ban at the next City Hall
hearing, which could be held as early as next month. "The government
should not be telling us what to put on our menus unless it's a health
issue," Ms. McShane said.

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"nani" : Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few
months
and have
: pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

My son, a college student, was found to have fatty liver. The doc said it
was from too much beer consumption. So, there is also an alcohol
connection
with fatty liver.

Pat in TX
:
:

I have never been a drinker, no alcohol and very little caffeine!

"Cookie Cutter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

nani said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and
have pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

Non-alcoholic fatty liver is caused by high insulin levels. In other
words, it is a direct result of the current ultra high carb diet. The
best treatment is reducing carbohydrate consumption.

Cookie

Thanks Cookie, I'm not fat nor have I been on a high carb diet in the last
10 years, however, I am diabetic and have recently had several shots
(cortisone/steroids) that have brought my insulin levels way up. I have
recently changed doctors due to the low standard of care that I have
received and after my tests come back from my new doc I'll know more. I
expect my HgA1c will be high even though I have maintained a low carb eating
plan for several years. My cholesterol and triglycerides have also been
great, 135, 120.

"BJ in Texas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

nani <[email hidden]> wrote:
|| Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few
|| months and have pain that was checked by ultrasound and found
|| to be a fatty liver.

How long did it take you to get that way? Just a few months
of low carb is not likely to correct a condition you reached
over a long period of time.

BJ
--
"Borrow money from pessimists--they don't expect it back."

I am always on a low carb plan for diabetes (10 years), not fat, no booze,
no smoking. The only change has been in my mobility for joint problems and
foot surgery. Maybe that's it?

Poor geese! FTR, this gal only eats whole grains in moderation. When I was a
child we ate white bread but I am not a bread "person". I do enjoy a bit of
steel cut Irish oatmeal in the morning though🙂

"Cookie Cutter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

nani said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and
have pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

Fatty liver disease in ducks:

A copyrighted article from the Chicago Tribune:

This city is considering a proposal to trim fatty goose and duck livers
from the menus of Chicago restaurants, stirring debate over whether it
has a right to tell people what they can put on their plates.

Kenneth Dickerman for The New York Times
"Foie gras has been around since the age of cuisine. Some animals are
raised for food. They're raised to die."
Rick Tramanto
Chef at Tru in Chicago

Kenneth Dickerman for The New York Times
"Our culture does not condone the torture of innocent and defenseless
creatures."
Joe Moore
Chicago Alderman
"Our laws are a reflection of our culture," said Joe Moore, an alderman
who has proposed banning the sale of foie gras in the city, as he
addressed the council's health committee on Tuesday. "Our culture does
not condone the torture of innocent and defenseless creatures. And we
as a society believe all God's creatures should be treated humanely."

Foie gras, which means "fatty liver" in French and is most commonly
served in upscale restaurants, is produced by force-feeding grain to
ducks and geese several times a day through a pipe that is inserted in
their throats, causing their livers to expand up to 10 times their
normal size within weeks.

Charlie Trotter, the celebrity chef whose restaurant here bears his
name, quietly stopped serving the dish four years ago after he visited
foie gras farms and was appalled at how it was produced. His decision
made newspaper headlines in March and inspired Mr. Moore's proposal,
which could be voted on by the end of the year. "I never wanted to
become the de facto poster boy for the no foie gras movement," Mr.
Trotter said. The proposal follows a unanimous vote in the State Senate
to ban force-feeding birds for the production of foie gras in Illinois.
It will be considered by the House next year. Last year, California
banned the production and sale of foie gras starting in 2012, and
legislation regulating it has been introduced in New York,
Massachusetts and Oregon.

Marcus Henley, operations manager for Hudson Valley Foie Gras in New
York, one of three foie gras producers in the country, said that the
birds were not treated cruelly and that scientific evidence showed they
did not suffer. "The anthropomorphism makes this a very easy sell," Mr.
Henley said of the bans.

Although Mr. Trotter, 46, stopped serving foie gras, he questioned the
government's role in banning it, saying the decision should be left up
to consumers and business owners.

"It's pretty soon going to be legislated to death, and pretty soon we
won't need to think because the government will think for us," Mr.
Trotter said.

Rick Tramonto, 43, a well-known Chicago chef at the restaurant Tru,
called the proposed ban a travesty and said he wondered where the line
would be drawn because other animals, like chickens, were mistreated.
"Foie gras has been around since the age of cuisine," Mr. Tramonto
said. "Some animals are raised for food. They're raised to die."

Last spring, Mr. Tramonto and Mr. Trotter got into a name-calling spat
over the matter.

Mr. Tramonto was quoted in The Chicago Tribune as calling Mr. Trotter
hypocritical for selling other animal products but not foie gras. Mr.
Trotter, in turn, told the newspaper that Mr. Tramonto was not "the
smartest guy on the block."

Both men said on Tuesday that the disagreement was blown out of
proportion and that they respected each other's opinions.

"I think we both regretted sort of getting dragged into the mud," Mr.
Trotter said. "The real story is to eat or not to eat foie gras."

Other Chicago restaurant owners that serve foie gras agreed that
restaurants and consumers should be able to make their own decisions.

"I don't think it's really something that the city should be choosing
for everyone," said Stephanie Izard, chef and owner of Scylla, one of
at least 16 Chicago restaurants that serve foie gras. "Lezlie Keebler,
a managing partner at Chestnut Grill and Wine Bar, said she would
prefer not to sell it but does because it is popular. "I tell my chefs,
you have to serve things people want to eat, not things you want them
to eat," Ms. Keebler said. Some foie gras defenders argue that
regulation is a slippery slope. "Government should not regulate how a
farmer produces something," said John Hawkins, news service director
for the Illinois Farm Bureau, which opposed the state legislation. "It
would set a precedent."

But Holly Cheever, a veterinarian in Guilderland, N.Y., who spoke at
the Chicago hearing, said she thought the city should "take a stand
against such outrageous and heinous cruelty" by banning the sale of
foie gras. "Even in the worst cases," Ms. Cheever said, referring to
treatment of other animals for food production, "nothing touches this
in terms of the cruelty involved."

Colleen McShane, president of the Illinois Restaurant Association, said
the group planned to speak against the ban at the next City Hall
hearing, which could be held as early as next month. "The government
should not be telling us what to put on our menus unless it's a health
issue," Ms. McShane said.

"nani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and
have pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

Thank you all for the input. I have some area to examine. I am not fat, not
a drinker or smoker and eat a very healthy low carb diet (10 years). Here is
what I ate today (never eat sugar or white foods!):

Steel cut Irish oatmeal, dash of cream, cinnamon coffee, sf Tang

6 chicken wings, sliced tomatoes and black olives, sf yogurt, strawberries,
SB whole wheat crackers, water

Dreamfields pasta (1 serving) with 7-8 shrimp sautéed in 1 pat butter and
olive oil with garlic, artichoke hearts, lemon water

1/cup sf ice cream (dessert)

almonds and peanuts, 1/2 apple (snack)

I do eat 2 fruit servings a day and usually 3 veggie servings. While I don't
count carbs anymore my intake is probably around 70-100. I also eat peanut
butter and sf whole wheat bread a couple times a week. Something is just not
working right!

"nani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Something is just not working right!

Nani, have you come across this advice?
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm I found it
absolutely invaluable in trying to figure out how a low-carb lifestyle and
tight diabetes control can co-exist.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/74/72Kg

Thanks Nicky, I started on my own this morning writing down tests and food
consumed. My fasting glucose this morning was 198! Other readings have been
in the low 200's without much variation before eating or postprandial (1
1/2-2 hours after eating) but I will continue to check bs and write down my
intake. It seems as though my meds aren't working to keep my sugar in check
and while low carbing helps, something is going awry. I will be checking 5-6
times a day.

Yeah, it's right before dinner and I'm down to 128. I've had to work hard
for that today! Dinner is baked chicken, broccoli and Waldorf salad. I'm
going to be more careful with my snack tonight and continue writing
everything down.

"Nicky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"nani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Something is just not working right!

Nani, have you come across this advice?
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm I found it
absolutely invaluable in trying to figure out how a low-carb lifestyle and
tight diabetes control can co-exist.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/74/72Kg

Oatmeal and pasta are not low carb.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"nani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"nani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone ever hear of this? I have been on low carb for a few months and
have pain that was checked by ultrasound and found to be a fatty liver.

Thank you all for the input. I have some area to examine. I am not fat,
not a drinker or smoker and eat a very healthy low carb diet (10 years).
Here is what I ate today (never eat sugar or white foods!):

Steel cut Irish oatmeal, dash of cream, cinnamon coffee, sf Tang

6 chicken wings, sliced tomatoes and black olives, sf yogurt,
strawberries, SB whole wheat crackers, water

Dreamfields pasta (1 serving) with 7-8 shrimp sautéed in 1 pat butter and
olive oil with garlic, artichoke hearts, lemon water

1/cup sf ice cream (dessert)

almonds and peanuts, 1/2 apple (snack)

I do eat 2 fruit servings a day and usually 3 veggie servings. While I
don't count carbs anymore my intake is probably around 70-100. I also eat
peanut butter and sf whole wheat bread a couple times a week. Something is
just not working right!