Especially For Montygram: Fish and the Aging Brain

If you want to take one powerful medication to counteract another one,
go ahead and see what the long-term effects are. If you're not
concerned about the in vivo lipid peroxidation, the neuroprostanes
destroying your brain, and the immuno-suppressive effects, you're a
braver person than I.

I will stick with keeping my body from experiencing biochemical
activity that is not necessary and that would involved massive free
radical damage. I have seen the evidence, and I have seen the effects
on my own body. I am willing to put up my own money to demonstrate
that common lab mammals will not live as long on a fish oil or canola
oil diet as opposed to a coconut oil one. For those who don't have
much money, go buy 2 mice, and feed one canola and fish oil and the
other fresh coconut oil and see which of the two lives longer. You may
find that the one mouse won't want to eat much of canola/fish oil,
which should tell you something right there.

These "studies" just show that omega 3s interfere with arachidonic acid
being made into PGE2, LTB4, and other very dangerous substances. With
the fish oil, the nasty substances are "spread around," so that there
is less "inflammation," which might be better than just eating plenty
of omega 6s, but can't be optimal, given the weight of the evidence
that is now available. Why anyone wouldn't just allow their bodies to
do what it wants, now that it is known that humans can make their own
PUFA, makes no sense at all.

But again, I'll put my money where my mouth is and make the
experimental offer. SBHarris will destroy his brain. I recently
posted those experiments on neuroprostanes derived from EPA/DHA on this
NG, but as they say, "some people have to learn the hard way."

montygram said:

But again, I'll put my money where my mouth is and make the
experimental offer. SBHarris will destroy his brain. I recently
posted those experiments on neuroprostanes derived from EPA/DHA on this
NG, but as they say, "some people have to learn the hard way."

COMMENT:

Yeah, and that appears to be you. We have the epidemology on human
fish-eaters. The live longest of any populations on earth, and their
brains age more slowly. Direct observation. In contrast, you present
some theoretical biochemistry. Good luck if you think you know it all.

SBH

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

montygram said:

But again, I'll put my money where my mouth is and make the
experimental offer. SBHarris will destroy his brain. I recently
posted those experiments on neuroprostanes derived from EPA/DHA on this
NG, but as they say, "some people have to learn the hard way."

COMMENT:

Yeah, and that appears to be you. We have the epidemology on human
fish-eaters. The live longest of any populations on earth, and their
brains age more slowly. Direct observation. In contrast, you present
some theoretical biochemistry. Good luck if you think you know it all.

SBH

What if the fish are fed coconut oil first? That would make them more
edible and not oxidized.
The Coconut Milk Fish of Asia.

Robert said:

What if the fish are fed coconut oil first? That would make them more
edible and not oxidized.
The Coconut Milk Fish of Asia.

And also with no omega-3. They'd have to stay in tropical water, or
else turn into hard lumps of lard.

Coconut oil has fatty acids too short to build cell membranes with. I
don't know what Monty thinks he's doing in eating it. It's empty
calories to be burned for fuel, like sugar and alcohol (and this is of
course is exactly what the coconut uses the stuff for).

As Monty himself points out, if you don't really *believe* you need any
dietary source of w-3 and w-6 PUFAs, then there's no point in eating
any oil. You might as well make your own w-9 PUFAs out of any old
foodstuff, including carbs and protein. No oil or fat of any kind is
required.

SBH

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/10/health/webmd/main931654.shtml

I'm thinking I need a fish symbol on my trunk to show my commitment to
saving my brain. But it appears I've been scooped there.

I keep thinking of Dr. Obispo in Huxley's _After Many A Summer Dies the
Swan_. He'd have loved this.

SBH

(Not statins in the water-- FISH in the water).

Quoted message said:

</>

Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:

montygram said:

But again, I'll put my money where my mouth is and make the
experimental offer. SBHarris will destroy his brain. I recently
posted those experiments on neuroprostanes derived from EPA/DHA on this
NG, but as they say, "some people have to learn the hard way."

In contrast, you present
some theoretical biochemistry. Good luck if you think you know it all.

This is the deductive logic of the Deity Montygram. 🙁

He mistakes his model of how the human body is supposed to work for the
scientific method.

Montygram has my condolences. 🙁

Total misrepresentation, but I have confidence objective readers will
see through it without a problem. "Epidemiology" that starts with
faulty assumptions, as these studies do, are worse than worthless -
they are misleading. Asians on coconut oil diets have no or very
little "chronic disease." That is demographic evidence, and it is is
much more difficult to misrepresent it, which eplains why you don't
like it.

Fish isn't a bad food source if it's not polluted and has little fat
content. Some canned tuna has "0 grams of fat" listed on the label, so
the only probelm is that it may have mild serotogenic effects, unless
you ate very large amounts of it. Many "experts" go around saying,
"eat tuna - it's a good source of omega 3s," which is ridiculous and
shows how little they know. Apparently, they don't even read the
labels.

Robert is correct: feeding animals coconut makes them more healthy
(I've posted one study about this here many times - biopsies were taken
as well as the incidence of "disease" among the people who ate the
animals), though it also makes them lean, which is why farmers feed
their cows and pigs soy and corn. This has been known for decades.
Animals that swim in cold waters do need the omega 3s, so if SB wants
to swim around nude in the North Atlantic during the winter, he may
want to eat oily fish, but I suspect he'd have bigger problems to worry
about under those conditions.

11 Oct 2005 19:24:04 -0700 in article
<[email hidden]> "montygram"

Quoted message said:

Fish isn't a bad food source if it's not polluted and has little fat
content. Some canned tuna has "0 grams of fat" listed on the label, so
the only probelm is that it may have mild serotogenic effects, unless
you ate very large amounts of it. Many "experts" go around saying,
"eat tuna - it's a good source of omega 3s," which is ridiculous and
shows how little they know. Apparently, they don't even read the
labels.

You don't seem to be aware that fresh and frozen tuna are excellent sources
of omega-3 fatty acids (<http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=862&lang=en>😉.
However, most, but not all canned tuna is processed in a way which causes
most of omega-3s to be lost
(<http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=11059&lang=en>😉. This applies only to
tuna, other fish are canned in a way which does not cause loss of omega-3s.
The experts you are referring to must have meant fresh or frozen tuna. If
so, they were absolutely right.

See

Omega-3 | FAQ's
<http://www.omega-3info.com/faqs.htm#10>

Citation:

"Is there a high, or even not so high, concentration of
omega-3 in regular tuna? I've heard albacore tuna has a
lot. I eat tuna sandwiches every day, but I'm not sure
that they're albacore tuna. Does it make a difference?

Fresh and frozen tuna are excellent sources of long chain
omega-3 polyunsaturates, supplying around 5% total oil of
which 20% is omega-3. However, during the canning process,
most of the oil and therefore most of the omega-3 is lost.
This is mainly because tuna is cooked before it is canned,
and during the cooking process much of the oil is
separated and lost. The meat that goes in the tin thus has
a low oil content (usually less than 1g per 100g) and a
low omega-3 content (usually less than 0.4g per 100g). It
matters little whether the tuna is albacore or yellowfin
because once it is canned there is little omega-3 left.
Some tuna packers do can raw tuna so that the omega-3
content is higher, but it is usually difficult to
distinguish such products from the others in the
marketplace. Enquire of the producer to be certain. These
comments only apply to tuna. Other canned fish are just as
good as the raw fish as sources of long chain omega-3
polyunsaturates."

--
Matti Narkia

montygram said:

"Epidemiology" that starts with
faulty assumptions, as these studies do, are worse than worthless -
they are misleading.

Markers are less than worthless, according to the Deity Montygram.
Now, Epidemiological research is deemed less than worthless.

Quoted message said:

Asians on coconut oil diets have no or very
little "chronic disease." That is demographic evidence, and it is is
much more difficult to misrepresent it, which explains why you don't
like it.

Now, in the vary same paragraph the Deity Montygram pronounces that
demographic evidence supports his deductive logic.

Can the Deity kindly tell me the difference between "demographic
evidence" and "Epidemiology?"

I need a good laugh.

Epidemiology that starts out with Monty's preconceived notions presents
the scientific method, while research that starts out with "faulty
assumptions" according to the Deity Montygram does not. 🙁

Yeah, right, ... sure! Monty I have a better idea. You are just a
cracked Crackpot.

Just my opinion, but I am never wrong.

Juhana Harju wrote:

: As there is some previous evidence that certain phopholipids, e.g.
: phosphatidylserine, prevent cognitive decline, I am enclined to
: support their role in preventing Alzheimer disease. Also it could be
: due to a synergistic working of many factors: DHA, EPA, DPA,
: phospholipids, selenium, and RNA - to name just few possible
: substances.

Fish, particularly sardines, is high in RNA. During digestion RNA is broken
down into, and absorbed as, nucleotides and nucleosides, which are shown to
improve memory in mice. "Memory-deficient senescence-accelerated mice and
mice with dementia showed improved memory with dietary nucleosides and
nucleotides supplementation. These results indicate that supplementation
with nucleosides and nucleotides is beneficial to the functions of the
system and the brain."

(Yamamoto S et al, Role of nucleosides and nucleotides in the immune system,
gut reparation after injury, and brain function. Nutrition. 1997
Apr;13(4):372-4.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9178291&dopt=Abstract )

--
Juhana

Juhana Harju wrote:
: Juhana Harju wrote:
:
:: As there is some previous evidence that certain phopholipids, e.g.
:: phosphatidylserine, prevent cognitive decline, I am enclined to
:: support their role in preventing Alzheimer disease. Also it could be
:: due to a synergistic working of many factors: DHA, EPA, DPA,
:: phospholipids, selenium, and RNA - to name just few possible
:: substances.
:
: Fish, particularly sardines, is high in RNA. During digestion RNA is
: broken down into, and absorbed as, nucleotides and nucleosides, which
: are shown to improve memory in mice.
: "Memory-deficient senescence-accelerated mice and
: mice with dementia showed improved memory with dietary nucleosides´
: and nucleotides supplementation. These results indicate that
: supplementation with nucleosides and nucleotides is beneficial to
: the functions of the system and the brain."
:
: (Yamamoto S et al, Role of nucleosides and nucleotides in the immune
: system, gut reparation after injury, and brain function. Nutrition.
: 1997 Apr;13(4):372-4.
:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9178291&dopt=Abstract
:

Further reading: "The present results show that the chronic oral
administration of an NS [nucleosides] + NT [nucleotides] mixture is
associated with a reduction in the age-related deterioration of brain
morphology and memory. [...]
In conclusion, we showed that in aged SAMP8 [mice], supplementation of the
diet with NS + NT was associated with a reduced deterioration of
morphological variables and memory tasks."

(Chen TH et al, A nucleoside-nucleotide mixture may reduce memory
deterioration in old senescence-accelerated mice. J Nutr. 2000
Dec;130(12):3085-9.
Full study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=11110874&dopt=Abstract )

--
Juhana

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:27:45 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Link to the full study (may require registration, but it is free):
http://archneur.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/62.12.noc50161v1

Thanks for the useful tip. 🙂
I registered as a guest and now I can access some Jama free full
texts.
That specific articles seems to be still restricted though.

--
Enrico C

* cut the ending "cut-togli.invalid" string when replying by email *

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:27:45 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Link to the full study (may require registration, but it is free):
http://archneur.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/62.12.noc50161v1

Thanks for the useful tip. 🙂
I registered as a guest and now I can access some Jama free full
texts.
That specific article seems to be still restricted though.

--
Enrico C

* cut the ending "cut-togli.invalid" string when replying by email *